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MAZDASPEED Mazda6

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  • wongpreswongpres Member Posts: 422
    Here's the portion of one of Mazda's press releases as it pertains to the AWD:

    All-New Active Torque Split All-Wheel Drive System

    The Mazda6 MPS is equipped with Mazda's new active torque split, all-wheel drive system. Based on the road-proven system of the Mazda6 available in some global markets, but featuring more aggressive transfer of torque to the rear axle on all road surfaces in accordance with driving conditions, the new all-wheel-drive system achieves a fine balance between sporty control over the car that makes it particularly fun to drive and handling stability on snowy or wet surfaces or under other challenging road conditions. Power and torque are faithfully and thoroughly transferred to the road surface for maximum efficiency and performance.

    The system uses real-time input data on steering angle, yaw rate, lateral G force and engine status to determine road surface and driving conditions. The active torque coupling mounted in front of the rear differential is electronically controlled accordingly, adjusting front/rear wheel torque distribution between 100:0 and 50:50 to deliver optimum drive power to each wheel. The result is powerful acceleration and positive handling regardless of constantly changing road conditions, as well as the ability to fully balance the car in a turn by deft use of the accelerator pedal.

    The Mazda6 MPS's onboard computer automatically determines driving and road conditions so the driver can relax and enjoy the pleasure of the drive. Three different modes of front/rear torque distribution are selected by the system: Normal, Sports, and Snow, (for slippery surfaces). The Power Take Off (PTO) system that that aggressively distributes torque to the rear axle is fitted with its own water-cooled cooling system.

    A new rear differential with greater torque capacity is employed by the system to deliver a high level of reliability. Increased torsional rigidity of the propeller shaft and rear differential mount improves the response of torque transfer to the rear wheels and delivers a more rigid feel to the ride under acceleration. And a limited slip differential is used in the rear differential optimizes transfer of torque to the left and right rear wheels, realizing solid traction and linear vehicle control that delivers a stable feeling ride when cornering.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    From that it seems like it's primarily FWD, or at least it's 100% front by default, but can adjust pro-actively (hence the real-time inputs).

    Up to 50% to the rear axle is a weakness, IMO. Most German competitors actually carry a rear bias, 45:55 or even 33:67 in Audi's case, by default.

    Subaru's is 50/50 or 45/55 depending upon the model, and VTD can actually send up to 100% of power to either axle. IMO it's better in two ways, being both full-time and more flexible.

    The rear LSD is nice and matches what Subaru offers.

    Far better than what the Escape gets, but still not quite a match for Subaru's AWD. Of course Subaru specializes in AWD and we should expect them to keep an advantage in that regard.

    I can't wait to sample one in the real-world, though.

    -juice
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    looks like a Legacy GT vs Mazdaspeed6 comparo thread will soon appear :-D
  • jaman_cajaman_ca Member Posts: 13
    That website I think quotes 274hp and 280 torque.

    Who knows which numbers are correct.
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    0-60 target in the low 6 range.

    Speed sensing wipers

    SAB & curtain bags

    Alloy pedals

    18" wheels

    17" f/r rotors

    Active torque split AWD

    stainless steel scuff plates

    Auto climate

    6-speed manual (no AT)

    4 window auto up/down

    2.3l DISI turbo 274hp 280lb-ft.

    Limited slip diff.

    DSC

    HID headlights
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoweek.com/page.cms?pageId=45

    Mazda6 MPS is about half way down.

    Very poor color choice for a show car. It blends right in instead of sticking out. The 5 door would have been a better choice for body style, will it come that way?

    No turn signal in the mirrors. The honey comb grille is OK, but I'd like to see a cross hatch pattern, it would look better.

    That black trim around the fog lights screams of cost cutting, make it body color guys!

    It does get what appears to be headlight washers, neat.

    Rims and ivory leather look more Lincoln.

    -juice
  • icvciicvci Member Posts: 1,031
    Sedan only.

    The wheels look very Volvo to me. Whatever they end up looking like, I'm sure they'll look great. I think Mazda has the best looking OEM wheels on the road.

    BTW, it shares fewer than 100 parts with the current 6.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not sure that's a good thing. Seems like an expensive way to improve an already good car.

    That extra bulge on the hood, does the regular 6 have that? I bet they made more room for the turbo.

    Cladding on the lower doors looks nice, well integrated.

    I wonder if those body-color mirrors are fold-aways. The regular car lacks these.

    It's odd that some trim is body color and some is black. The door surrounds for instance, they'd look better painted.

    That's funny because our 626's weren't, and later they added that to the 626.

    I notice side markers, that's cool.

    -juice
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Honestly, the wheels are really turning me off. I'll just have to wait to see and drive one in person.

    That Focus cabriolet looks nice. I'm sure we'll never see it over here though. Too bad. :(
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    DSC is great, HIDs too? Nice.

    No NAV in the car that was pictured, I wonder if it'll be an option. Legacy is often critized for lacking that feature.

    Nice dual exhaust, integrated too.

    Like the taillights. Where's the 3rd head rest? Not even a hump?

    I wonder if those side mirrors fold away, the regular model's does not.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    17" f/r rotors

    That's funny, they're measuring it the JDM way. The actual rotors are probably more like 12", but they basically call them 17" if they are the biggest possible brakes that will fit inside a 17" rim.

    Funny thing is the rims are 18", that means they could have been bigger! :-)

    Any how, the specs make it look pretty complete. 6 speed and HIDs are things the GT Ltd lacks. DSC, too. Plus the rims are bigger.

    Depending upon how its priced it could potentially offer great value.

    -juice
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    That extra bulge on the hood, does the regular 6 have that? I bet they made more room for the turbo.

    Nope. The hood is different to accomodate the turbo from what I've read here on Edmunds.

    I wonder if those body-color mirrors are fold-aways. The regular car lacks these.

    Me too, but I doubt it. They look identical to the "regular" one's.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    No NAV in the car that was pictured, I wonder if it'll be an option.

    It will be in the '06 "regular" model so I don't see why they wouldn't put it in the MPS too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    May be a stand-alone option. Subaru will have it on the '06 models, too, if not sooner.

    BTW I keep comparing the Legacy GT because I think it'll be the closest competitor. I'm sure the press will compare it to the TSX, A4, S40 AWD, etc.

    -juice
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    May be a stand-alone option. Subaru will have it on the '06 models, too, if not sooner.

    Most likely. At least that's how it is on the Mazda3 and RX-8 as I remember it. I also think the MZ3's Nav is only about $1500 which is somewhat of a bargain these days. No?

    BTW I keep comparing the Legacy GT because I think it'll be the closest competitor.

    That depends on price. A Legacy GT Limited all optioned out (5-speed of course) is about $31k. Given the bargain prices of the regular models I don't see the MPS getting that high but I have been wrong about prices before. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yup. They're usually $2 grand.

    -juice
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    One other thing I noticed is that the AWD system is said to be "new to/for Mazda". However, Ford is supposedly using a Volvo AWD system from the S80 in the Five Hundred. Could this "new" system possibly be from another Ford premium division too? i.e. Volvo? Not that it's a bad thing either.

    Might be too early to tell.

    Who's AWD system will Ford drop into the Mazda6 based Fusion and the Mazda6 wagon?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good question, will the 6 use Volvo's Haldex? The system acts very quickly and IMO it effectively eliminates torque steer and reduces understeer on the AWD Volvo S60.

    Let's hope that's it.

    A much better choice than the rotary blade coupling on the Ford Escape.

    The Ford 500 and Freestyle get the Volvo system, so it is possible Mazda will get that too.

    -juice
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Actually juice, the '05 Escape's system is new. I'm not sure if it's a Haldex (I'm by no means an AWD expert either) but it was explained once as being a stripped version of the system used in land Rovers.

    Ford, unfortunately doesn't give us much info on it. Do you know something we don't?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, wish I did.

    Maybe blueovalnews.com would have some info?

    The old RBC was reactive. Even though you could switch it on, you couldn't keep it engaged permanently.

    One of the car mags did a test of several classes of SUV, their Escape was the only one that got stuck.

    -juice
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    That was probably the old one. Not that the new one wouldn't get stuck either, but the old one in "Auto" mode allowed a good bit of front wheel spin before engaging the rears.

    The new system is all electronic and actually predicts slippage so the front wheels never spin helplessly. No snow here yet but they haven't slipped one inch in rain, mud, gravel, or sand (at the beach a few weeks ago).

    I think it's still a 50/50 max system with no LSD though. So it still has the potential to get stuck.

    A recent MT comparo listed the '05 Escape as the best small ute (car based) for off-roading. There wasn't much competition there though. They had the VUE RL, Nox, and Santa Fe up against it.

    Anyway, regardless of what system the MPS uses it's certainly not intended for off-road use and I'm sure will be just fine for the street.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nox gets VersaTrak, right? That system impressed me the least.

    Vue gets some form of RBC as well, similar to the original Escape's minus the manual control button.

    SF I'm not sure about.

    Agreed about the Mazda, it'll be tuned for street use. Basically I'd like to see it exiting a corner at full boost and not spin an inside front tire.

    That'll impress me.

    -juice
  • boomn29boomn29 Member Posts: 189
    No price estimate yet?? I assuming only a sedan option correct??
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Supposedly. The 5 door would be the coolest, IMO.

    -juice
  • midwesttradermidwesttrader Member Posts: 291
    I see on the Mazda website that the car should hit the lots during early summer. Does anyone know how many they plan to make?

    If the production numbers are low the dealers will surely hold firm at msrp (whatever that ends up being) or higher. That would be bad news!
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    The number I have heard is 4000...but I don't have anything solid. The factory guys know less than everyone on here.

    Rich
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Let them build a few with a sunroof. I mean, if NAV is important, a sunroof has to be a no-brainer.
  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    What I posted in the Mazda6 forum. The MazdaSpeed 6 will not come with a sun roof for the same reason that it will not come with a fold down rear seat - so that Mazda could achieve 40% greater torsional rigidity and thus better handle the big increase in HP and TQ.

    It is for this same reason that Mazda went with the sedan body style and not the hatch or wagon. Neither of those two vehicles is rigid enough for what Mazda had in mind.

    MazdaSpeed vehicles are no-compromise, performance oriented. If you want a sunroof and other foo-foo options, buy an Accord Coupe.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Subaru isn't too far off power-wise. A roof shouldn't compromise rigidity too much. But I guess you can't have everything.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree, NAV is foo-foo and adds both weight and cost, definitely a compromise.

    It will be optional, though, right?

    -juice
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,933
    how much weight could it possibly add? heck, skip a couple of meals and you've compensated for it. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I really have no idea. The screen, antennae, device, not too much I guess.

    But put that money towards something sport oriented.

    -juice
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    But put that money towards something sport oriented.

    You mean like having a gadget on your dash that can find a remote winding road? :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Exactly...uuuummm

    ;-)

    -juice
  • matsworkmatswork Member Posts: 1
    The euro model has had the high output turbo 2.3l and awd from the get go ( 2003 model sedan/wagon ) they also have diesel engines as an option both normal and turbo... And the euro models look better they have 18's and ground effects standard on all models... that might be why they cost 35k Euro ( thats about $40k) I am in the Navy stationed in Italy and have rented the euro spec wagon ( 2.0l diesel with 5spd man trans, and It would do 250 kph, thats about 150 mph, and had great handling and pick up.) Last month when I was back in the states I test drove both the sedan and wagon with the 3.0l 5spd and It was not even close no pick up and handled like crap.... why why why.... no wonder it didn't sell that well in the states but was a hit in europe...
  • wongpreswongpres Member Posts: 422
    Euro-spec Mazda6 does NOT have a turbo 2.3l. The 2.3l turbo engine is new. The highest petrol engine in euro-spec is the 2.3l normally aspirated engine that is the base engine in N. American-spec (the V6 is exclusive to N. American-spec).

    However, as you say, Euro-spec can have diesel engines and the torque from these diesels can easily make the pick-up better than the N. American-spec V6 (yes, I'm a big fan of the current diesels that are available in Europe).

    Handling of N. American-spec Mazda6 is different than Euro-spec. They tuned it differently and many parts are different (e.g. 50-series 17's in N. American-spec compared to 45-series 17's everywhere else).
  • sukispeedsukispeed Member Posts: 27
    Will all Mazdaspeed6s' be made in Japan or in Flat Rock. Or will North American get them from The US and the rest of the world get them from Japan?
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    "My complaint about Mazda engines is they lack low end torque"

    sorry man, but these kinds of opinions kill me!!
    The dumbest thing a car company can do aka Nissan Altimas, Maximas, is jack up the low end torque on fwd cars. It does only only burn out your tires faster, but it is most importantly dangerous when making a 90 degrees turn from a standstill or similiar situation.

    There is absolutely no logic in having front wheel cars with high low end torque, leave that for trucks, vans or hummers.

    Mazda especially i believe have one of the lowest low end torque kick in(compared to its competitors) for the reason, they want to stay clear from understeer as much as possible, and utilize their cost effective fwd cars to behave similiarly to a rich experience format of a rwd car.

    Sure many think, this kind of engineer is pretentious but If you ask me, i think its smart, and with just capable funds to build such great cars, its ingenious.
  • wongpreswongpres Member Posts: 422
    The N. American Mazdaspeed6 will be from Japan. The Mazdaspeed6 is relatively limited production-wise so it's not worthwhile to tool two plants. Also, Flat Rock is quite busy at the moment with ramping up Mustang production and setting up for Mustang variants (first up being the convertible).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If torque is too much for the front wheels to handle, then offer AWD, like the MS version will!

    My Miata's torque peaks at 5500rpm, so you have to "drive it like you stole it" for it to get out of its own way.

    That's fine when you're out for a fun drive, but every day, in a commute? It gets tiring.

    There should be a decent amount of torque available at 3000 rpm, not 5500 rpm. At 2000rpm, I think I could get out and push it faster than it will go on its own.

    -juice
  • boomn29boomn29 Member Posts: 189
    http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?intAsvPageCurrent=5&secti- on_id=31&article_id=8672

    AWD
    256 hp
    280 torque
    18" rims - 215/45R-18 tires
  • boomn29boomn29 Member Posts: 189
    Rumors I've heard:

    Price about $27k. Also heard this would be severely de-tuned and great for the aftermarket.
    Not sure if any of that is accurate though.
  • kijjokijjo Member Posts: 4
    Is that black chrome around the lights???

    Can I get them for my 2003 6s??

    If so, anyone know where to order them??

    Thanks in advance!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
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  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    We can order MZ6 speeds this allocation which runs on 11/11/04. The order combos are as follows

    -Base
    -Base w/navigation
    -Grand Trouring
    -Grand Touring w/navi
    -Grand Touring w/moonroof
    -Grand Touring w/navi & moonroof

    (Grand Touring includes Leather, advanced keyless entry/start, pwr driver seat, heated seats and heated mirrors.)

    20% build of base model apx $29K
    80% build of Grand Touring apx $31K

    33% moonroof
    25% navigation

    30% liquid platinum
    30% titanium
    10% black cherry
    10% whitewater pearl
    10% velocity red
    10% black mica

    Interior colors....base model will have black cloth. GT will have black leather or black/white leather.

    job#1 is Jan 2005. production will be limited so mazda will be allocating units on a quarterly basis. Production will be spread equally over the quarter..so cars will not all come in at once... Next allocation run will be Feb 2005. So if you want an early MZSpeed6 you need to order on this order cycle...Remember order must be in by 11/11/04.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's an impressive variety of options for the car. I thought it would basically come one way with a couple of a la carte options, but it looks like Mazda is being very flexible.

    Do you know what the forecast is for first year sales? Or what % of 6 production will be MazdaSpeeds?

    -juice
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,933
    You can already order it? Are we to assume the specs "reported" by car and driver are the real deal? this is a 2.3 turbo with AWD and a 6-speed? Is that all official? So what was at Paris is what will be arriving here in the states?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    2.3l turbo
    direct injection
    6 speed manual
    274hp @ 5500 rpm
    280 lb ft torque @ 3000rpm
    AWD
    18'' tires
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ooooh, toooorque!

    280 is schweet, and at just 3000 rpm? Nice tuning, MazdaSpeed!

    Compare that to the V6 model, with just 192 lb-ft at a sky high 5000 rpm.

    Night and day.

    -juice
  • boomn29boomn29 Member Posts: 189
    Sweet, thanks.

    Any specific performance numbers on that?
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