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Diesel MiniVans

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Shell is all but history in CA. Several have shut down and not re-opened. BP/ARCO diesel is superior anyway and a lot cheaper than Shell was. BP has at least 2 cetane points higher than Shell. Diesel in San Diego is 20-30 cents less than regular for the last 3 months.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, even here in the DC area, where diesel has been costlier for a long time, right now gas prices have crept up above diesel.

    Gas prices are more volatile, basically. They move up and down quicker than diesel prices do.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    Not so here in Ontario Canada. Diesel have consistently been lower than unleaded since late February to sometimes as low as 17 cents per litre (approximately 55 cents per gallon).

    I would probably be jumping beside myself with joy if it weren't for the fact I get 44.5mpg per gallon already and only refuel once every 2.5 weeks (cost per refill: $55 Canadian).

    Using so little, minor price fluctuation is not going to rock my boat too much. That is also why I stopped short from converting my Jetta to run Straight Vegetable oil.

    Back on topic (hehe), when I do get a diesel minivan, I would probably convert that to run straight vegetable oil.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    there are some cards which do give a 5% rebate for diesel purchaes - but most don't. Chase "rewards" card does, for example.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool.

    Just got my Shell card yesterday and used it for the first time.

    It's funny, at a dollar a gallon it was not worth getting the card to save 5 cents. You could shop around and find gas for 5 cents less anyway.

    But, at $3.39 per gallon (around here right now), you're getting 17 cents back. That's fairly significant. If I fill up the 21 gallon tank using 20 gallons we're talking about $3.40 per tank!
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    note that most of these rebate-card cap the rebates at $300/year. so multiple cards might be required in order to maintain 5% fuel discount all year.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Duly noted, thank you.

    We have a Chase Subaru card that caps off at $500 per year. We actually hit that limit already, and cannot earn more credit until September.

    So we will be using the gas card exclusively all summer, then for gas only after that.

    Plus, the Subaru card gives us 3% on all purchases, vs. just 1% for the gas card.

    Over 3 years we've earned $1500 in Subaru bucks and I've used $400. Another Forester is in our future, I think. ;)
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    Chrysler to build dual-clutch plant with German partner GETRAG. Production target 2009.

    May be a long shot...but can we start dreaming of a stick-shift VW minivan?

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/070619-5.htm
  • feliciatwofeliciatwo Member Posts: 68
    Sienna 2007 has MORE power, equal handling, more room than Odyssey. I drove Odyssey for 4 years....terrific except for grandmother interiors and drab colors. Now, I run across another caste-iron reliability manufacturer Toyota, do a test drive ....well, put it this way. "If Lexus made a van it would be the 2007 Sienna. Now, if we can get a Bluetec diesel in it !!
  • odydrivermomodydrivermom Member Posts: 3
    I have the same concern. I have been looking for a replacement for our van for a while since we have around 140,000 miles on our 2000 Odyssey right now. I love the van, but seriously, it costs me around $60 to fill it up these days. (We live in the Roaring Fork Valley, near Aspen, Colorado). I definitely want something with better gas mileage, and I want to avoid the dependence on oil from the Middle East. Also, I want to avoid electric since that uses coal. Sooooo, I've heard great things about diesel, and I would LOVE a diesel minivan by Chrysler, Toyota or Honda. I also have 4 young children, and am constantly carpooling and carrying a carload of kids everywhere... This is a great blog, I'm getting tons of information. THanks!
  • lizziewriterlizziewriter Member Posts: 9
    Hey! It's so nice to hear someone else voice a distrust of electric power due to the coal issue!! I'm not so keen on ethanol either -- I think it's just a stupid idea to use food crops in that manner. I had been wondering lately whether it would be possible for some gearhead to drop a diesel engine into a van of choice. Probably not, but I can't help but think back to the earlier years of America's love affair with the car, when hobbyists would do that sort of thing. Good luck !!
  • odydrivermomodydrivermom Member Posts: 3
    I agree on the ethanol issue, too. It seems wasteful. I am holding out for the Chrysler diesel minivan, I think, unless something better comes along. Where I live, hybrid doesn't make sense due to the long commutes everywhere, so, diesel is the best thing in my opinion. Plus, then I have the option of making my minivan a "veggie van" and using biodiesel. I also read this article which you may find interesting. I just know we can trump those big car companies and come up with ingenious ideas on our own!

    http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html

    Elizabeth
  • rustsdrustsd Member Posts: 1
    It is so nice to see that I am not CRAZY! I'm a huge proponent of biodiesel, but I've got little ones to tote around, all-the-while wishing I could find some eager person to put a diesel engine into a minivan for me!! (From the looks of it, all I have to do is wait a couple years now!)

    But I thought I'd reply not just because of the common hope of a diesel minivan, but also because of the disappointment in ethanol...I just wanted to add that it's not just irresponsible to use food in that manner...it's irresponsible to use our water in that manner!! (Corn is one of the highest-water-use crops!! Something to think about when much of America is in a drought...)

    Thanks for the encouragement in knowing there are other diesel-loving moms out there!
  • odydrivermomodydrivermom Member Posts: 3
    Wow, you are so right about the whole ethanol thing! Very disappointing... And now, have you seen the prices for diesel?? Now what are we going to do? Will biodiesel be any better? I am at a loss of what to do when my present minivan konks out. I'm still leaning towards diesel, but, man, the prices are scary!
  • casnappercasnapper Member Posts: 2
    I'm on board with those of you who are advocating a diesel minivan. We currently have a 2005 Sienna on lease that expires next month. I can extend the lease for six more months (through December '08), but have been holding out for a diesel (the only viable option to gas). Does anyone know if either Honda or Toyota has plans for a 2009 diesel option?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Does anyone know if either Honda or Toyota has plans for a 2009 diesel option?"

    Short answer; not happening anytime soon, if ever.

    FWIW, the only diesel minivans with a body style sold in the U.S. that sport diesel engines are the Chrysler versions, however, the Mercedes engined CRD minivans aren't available here in the U.S., and I wouldn't hold my breath until they are. :(

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • casnappercasnapper Member Posts: 2
    Hi, Shipo:

    Thanks for the reply to my post regarding a diesel minivan. I guess I'm just venting, but I don't understand why manufacturers are not marketing clean diesel options in the U.S. It just seems like such a natural fit to me since the U.S. market has such a lust for large SUV-type vehicles and diesel engines produce so much more torque and better fuel economy. As an advocate of this technology, I am frustrated that it is not available to us. It looks like I'm going to be signing up for another three years with a gasser.
    :confuse:
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    To go along with that there are no SUVs that are available in Diesel either (other than the compact VW Torg.)

    -mike
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Uhhh, Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD?

    http://www.jeep.com/en/2008/grand_cherokee/capability/engines/ :shades:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Mercedes offers 3 sizes of diesel SUV. The GL320 CDI, ML320 CDI and R320 CDI and soon the smaller GLK320 CDI. You can also get the Dodge Sprinter is several configurations in all 50 states with diesel engines.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    All of those are on the expensive side, though.

    Do any sticker under $30 grand, for instance?

    That's where the volume is.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I would be very surprised if any manufacturer brings a diesel minivan or SUV the the U.S. market for less than thirty thousand anytime soon, if ever. The best deal going (or soon to be going that is) for a diesel family hauler is the 2009 Jetta Sportwagon, and even that will have a base price in the mid twenties. By the time you tart it up a bit, it too will be over thirty thousand (or very near that point).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, that would make a good 2nd car, but I'm not sure if it's really big enough to be the single big family/trip car.

    A well equipped Tiguan breaks $30k easily so add to that if they bring a TDI.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Do any sticker under $30 grand, for instance?

    I don't think you can get any hybrid SUV under $30k. The cheapest is probably the Escape hybrid in the low $30ks. The HH is well into the $40k range. And these are very small SUVs. Someone wanting an SUV right now can get some killer deals on new and used SUVs. VW makes a great mini-van with diesel. I see them all the time in San Diego. They all have Mexico plates. I thought I saw one with US Government plates and did not get a second look.
  • lizziewriterlizziewriter Member Posts: 9
    It's scary out there, with the price of gas and everything else, who knows what the future may bring. I was just looking in the April 2008 Ward's Auto World (cover "The Endangered Clutch Pedal") and stumbled across a couple of articles on diesel. There are model names and a bit of background on the diesel market in Europe, and this and that, and overall I think there may be something in it for everyone. See if you can find a copy.
  • lizziewriterlizziewriter Member Posts: 9
    According to the April 2008 Wards Auto World, for 2009 Honda/Acura lists the following: 2.4L I-4, possibly V-6 Acura TSX, TL or RDX, Honda CR-V and Pilot.

    Toyota for 2010: V-8 Tundra, Sequoia.

    I'm sure they'll be pricey though!

    Good luck!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,926
    We talking Canadian $$?

    Escape hybrid starts under $28k. Vue Hybrid starts ~$26k. (US $)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was gonna say...

    Vue actually starts in the $24s, waaaaaaaay below $30 grand.

    I'm staring at an options list right now. Honestly, I don't think you can get one over $30k even if you factory order every single available option. I'm guesstimating but they top out around $28k, it seems.

    Escape hybrid starts at $25,075 for FWD, plus freight. Mariner a tad more. Didn't Mazda get one? Easily under $30k even w/AWD.

    The Touareg II TDI runs $68,320 plus freight for starters. That makes a Tahoe hybrid or RX400H seem downright cheap. You may be able to buy 2 hybrid Highlanders. Close.

    EDIT: Yes, you can actually buy 2, if you don't need a Highlander Limited.

    The Benz GL is 50 something without the diesel, so I'm sure it's more than any Tahoe/RX/HH by far.

    Jeep has the only down-to-earth price. Let me see, the diesel adds 1655 to the Limited, which starts at 35,965 for 2WD, plus freight. So over $38 grand before you add options.

    The Highlander hybrid starts at $33,700 and the Limited is $39,950, add freight for both. Right near the Jeep GC CRD basically, or cheaper if you don't need a Limited.

    Dunno, the diesels don't stack up well in price.

    * Vue & Escape much less than Grand Cherokee CRD

    * HH much less than GC Ltd CRD, but HH Ltd a little more

    * RX & Tahoe hybrid much less than Benz Diesel or Toureg

    The Jeep beats the Highlander Limited, but let's face it, mileage won't even come close, plus diesel costs more. Operating costs will be much higher for the CRD either way.

    Plus I saw gas for $3.79, while diesel was $4.59 and higher in most places. I actually saw $4.10 gas and $4.99 diesel. :cry:
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,926
    Huh. You're finding different numbers than me, even. I thought mine seemed high. I seemed to remember them being cheaper. I just looked at Edmunds before my previous post and it said "starting at $xx,xxx," which are the numbers I used.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think you and I have a different view of what is and what is not an SUV. FWD CUVs are not SUVs in my book. To each his own. Even the AWD Highlander is suspect as an offroad or towing vehicle. Two of the criteria to get the moniker SUV attached.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,926
    Two of the criteria to get the moniker SUV attached.

    hmmmm... really?
    Who owns the definitive definition to sport-utility vehicle?
    I would think it is anything that is both sporty and has utility. Heck, if I read that a certain way, nothing that is termed an SUV would qualify because I don't find them at all sporty.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    the s in suv is not for sporty like sports car, it's for sport like off-roading. personally i don't think offroading is a real sport like auto racing is. i'm needing increased capacity, maybe will trade my TDI for a gas minivan. Either that or trade my fun-car for a gas minivan. The only diesel "minivan" is the sprinter at double the cost and none of the nifty amenities of the gas minivans they are giving away at dealerships.

    btw, in the new england area the ads for Jeep/Dodge refuel-america plan are inconsistent. some say 87-octane only and/or no-diesel. it actually looks like an interesting offer, especially for anyone considering buying the diesel jeep. maybe it's the dodge diesel pickups which are not included in the plan.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't find them at all sporty.

    I don't either. "Sport Utility Vehicle" does not imply Sporty to me. It is a vehicle used to enhance whatever Sport you may like to do. Fishing, hunting, boating, skiing, camping, etc etc. I suppose someone could argue that a BMW X5 is Sporty as it out handles most cars on the road. For me, when I think of Sporty cars I think Porsche or Ferrari. When I think of SUV it is somewhere in a range from Explorer to Suburban. For me it is a real stretch calling an RX350 an SUV. I am glad they came up with CUV. It covers a lot of wagon type vehicles that cannot perform as I would require an SUV to perform.

    For most people a mini van would be better. And a diesel mini van would be great.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,926
    It is a vehicle used to enhance whatever Sport you may like to do. Fishing, hunting, boating, skiing, camping, etc etc.

    Yet, I don't consider any of those things "sports." :P

    Which still brings me back to my point. Since rarely can people agree what an SUV actually means or does, I call lots of things SUVs. I'll give you one point to think about. If someone's idea of an SUV is that it must be good off-roading, then I contend that a Subaru Forester is a FAR better offroader than a Suburban.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I used Consumer's Guide for pricing so it could be outdated. It's a hard copy, magazine.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, I agree the categorizations are a bit different, but my comparisons are valid for the way 97% of buyers will actually use them.

    I bet the Vue has more room than a Grand Cherokee. Highlander, too.

    If you need to tow, the Tahoe hybrid is actually a good choice. And it's a lot roomier than the Touareg.

    Besides, this is a minivan thread, how are we now getting picky about talking about truck-based SUVs only? LOL ;)

    Plus, anyone browsing this thread is presumably considering a minivan, so an AWD Vue, Escape, or Highlander would be as capable if not more so even for your criteria.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,926
    Besides, this is a minivan thread, how are we now getting picky about talking about truck-based SUVs only? LOL ;)

    ummm... uhhhh... ahhhhh....

    i got nothin'.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    :D

    And how that we bring that up, why no diesel or hybrid option on a minivan?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    And how that we bring that up, why no diesel or hybrid option on a minivan?

    Excellent question. Seems Toyota and Ford both said about 5 years ago they were going to hybridize across the line-up. The EU has several choices of diesel mini vans. Same issues with the diesel mini van as with all small diesels. The CARB carrot is hung out just far enough to keep the automakers from reaching it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford abandoned the minivan segment entirely, though some may argue the Flex is a minivan in drag.

    Toyota may eventually sell one here.

    A friend of a friend had a Renault (IIRC) diesel van, diplomatic tags, and took me for a spin. I was impressed with how flexible the seating arrangement was - basically 5 seats anywhere you want to mount them. So you could have 2-2-3, or 2-3-2, or take some out and use any combination.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It probably would not bother me so much if I did not see these in both cargo and passenger configuration with the big TDI on the back. There are a lot of them coming across with Mexican Nationals driving on our highways. So it is illegal for me to have a 35 MPG diesel van, but not someone from across the border driving in CA. Most likely driving on $2 diesel that is not ULSD. Why would they pay our high prices. There is a station just across the border selling diesel for $2.16.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Same in Brazil. Diesel is cheaper than gas (1/2 the price a year ago), but it's not nearly the same quality we get here in the US.
  • wv_engineerwv_engineer Member Posts: 1
    Obviously you haven't noticed the diesel car passing you and fuel stops on the highway. Because, you did not know that they were diesels. Next time you see a VW look for the letters TDI on the back. If it does not go wizzing past you getting 40mpg.
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