The Future of Saab?

stever · June 2011

If there ever was a car wreck in slow motion...

Saab Production Stalls Again (AutoObserver)

nippononly · June 2011

So what happened? Has Saab ceased to exist? They are bringing out this 9-4X which doesn't look to be substantially better than its competition in any sort of standout way, and is heavy and expensive by class standards. The new 9-3 isn't ready for production yet. How can this company possibly survive short of wholesale to the Chinese for pennies on the dollar?

stever · June 2011

There's still a pending deal with the Chinese; meanwhile the Russian has pulled out.

Saab Travails Now Include Antonov Pullout

The Chinese sale will take 3 months to clear the regulators. Meanwhile production in Trollheattan has been suspended again since suppliers aren't getting paid. (WSJ)

anythngbutgm · June 2011

Another casualty run into the ground by the former General...

The End Is Near: Saab Cant Meet Payroll

I was hoping they would make it (not expecting much from Spyker) but the damage was done long before there was ever a chance. :sick:

fintail · June 2011

Damage was done before GM came around. Too long been a brand of many claimed fans, but few who will walk the walk they talk when it comes to opening their wallets.

robr2 · June 2011

Even tha Sabbophiles aren't willing to pony up for a new one - they know it's a car best bought used.

anythngbutgm · June 2011

True to some degree. Saab went through the 90's and 2000's under their umbrella and never made a profit. However , I think there is plenty of blame for the former General Motors Company as well...

There was a lot of parts sharing, such as the 9-3, which was transferred to the same platform as the Rentabu, Saturn Aura and Pontiac G6 in 2003. Also that short stint where the former General had stake in Subaru and thought it was a good idea to rebadge a Subaru Impreza as the 9-2. I love my Subie and all but it's not a luxury car... Or the most un-Saab like vehicle you could ask for, a rebadge trailblazer clone, complete with the optional pushrod V8. Really? :sick: Meanwhile the 9-5 soldered on since 1998 (12 years!) without any revision, the current 9-3 has been around 8 years with the same neglect, other than a few trim packages like the "Black" or the Aero/Arc. Sure, no more Trailblazer trucks, but there is a Cadillac SRX clone that I don;t know if it even hit the lots or is permanently stillborn.

Lastly, under their umbrella, Saab abandoned one of their true calling cards, the hatchback. I know the Saab fans I know miss that feature and were completely angered by the elimination of even having the option of a hatch...

Even more sad to me is that for all the trauma and drudging thru the mud that Saab had endured over the years, GM managed to pillage what would become the Ecotec 4-cylinder that was later used everything from the Rentabu to the T/C unit in the Cobalt SS. Similar to what they did with the Duramax Diesel, designed by Isuzu before they were blown off the US map as well.

And without a doubt, I believe Saabs' safety engineers played a big part in the improvements at the former General when it comes to their recent IIHS crash test scores.

I have never been a hard core Saab fan, or even a mild one. And based on a pair of rentals that I had for over a month a bout 5 years ago, I can say they were pretty poorly built and had a lot of problems to go with their quirks, but I am still saddened by the death of a once great carmaker that was IMO, left to rot on the vine for the later majority of it's life.

fintail · June 2011

GM certainly didn't help things...but IMO the ship was sinking when they bought in. It is sad a historic brand is dying, the corporate world can be cruel. The 9-7 was the pinnacle of badness, a crime.

At least Ford had the sense to maintain Volvo.

fintail · June 2011

Depreciation that makes new Germans look like a good buy.

robr2 · June 2011

Exactly. Saab would've been gone in the early 90's if GM hadn't bought them.

martian · June 2011

The SAAB plant has closed (no money to meet payroll).
Looks like this is it..unless Russian banker/conman Antonov has some cash.
Doesn't look good. :sick:

fezo · June 2011

Had things gone differently and Ford bought Saab and GM bought Volvo we'd be talking about Volvo now.

Ford made a point of learning from Volvo. GM never did with Saab.

Yeah, both makes would have died without help back a decade ago. Looks like Saab really will now.

stever · June 2011

If Saab does go banko, then it will be interesting to compare the effect on the Swedish economy vs. what the US did with GM and Chrysler. The Swedish government declined to bail out Saab long ago. Big difference in size and jobs, but we'll see.

stever · June 2011

New week, same story.

Saab Gets More Chinese Life Support (AutoObserver)

gkg680 · June 2011

I would agree strongly with the commentary about the demise of the hatchback. I bought a new 900 Turbo coupe in 1983 and never thought that a car so much fun to drive could be so inexpensive. In 1996 I bought a new 900S and loved it. Both cars had a 5-speed, lasted 13 years, and might've lasted longer with better care. Tremendous value at $16K and $21.5K, before tax, respectively.
The hatchback/trunk of those cars were enormous, and if you folded down the back seat, you could transport kitchen appliances. They were distinctive, not everyone drove one, and they certainly had character, despite lacking room in the back seat.
It would be illuminating to learn why Saab discontinued those, although one could get essentially the same car in convertible form, if one wanted a convertible. As other gentlemen have stated, survival seems unlikely for Saab now, and it's a shame, and a loss for driving enthusiasts. Saab 4-door sedans, the remaining product lines, seem bland, overpriced, and ill-equipped to compete in the marketplace.

stever · June 2011

Will lease it back to have a place to build cars.

Saab Reaches Conditional Deal For Property Sale (Straightline)

nippononly · July 2011

Desperate??.................

benjaminh · July 2011

the sob (saab) story is done...

stever · July 2011

Maybe you should change that to "stick a chopstick in it"?

"The checkered history of Saab Automobile is about to add a few more wrinkles, with the long-troubled Swedish automaker saying Monday that it now plans not to fold the tent, but to expand its product portfolio with the addition of three new vehicles  an entry-level 9-1 compact for global markets and premium 9-6 and 9-7 models aimed more at the Chinese and U.S. markets."

Saab Plans Three New Models With Chinese Partner (Inside Line)

benjaminh · July 2011

I spoke too soon! Take the fork out!

stever · July 2011

Give it another 24 hours; it'll probably flip back again.

stever · July 2011

Saab: Production Restart Slated For Aug. 9 (AutoObserver)

If these guys make it, they'll have to come out with a car called the Phoenix. Or the Fenghuang, if the Chinese wind up with most of the company.

anythngbutgm · July 2011

If these guys make it, they'll have to come out with a car called the Phoenix

Maybe they could now that Pontiac is in the graveyard

stever · July 2011

Funny, I can't remember that one at all.

An equivalent of phoenix in Russian mythology is the Firebird, so there's precedence for Pontiac there.

samara · July 2011

Speaking of Saab's new products, Saab's first ever SUV the 9-4X began appearing at US showrooms a few weeks ago. Here is feedback from the first ever US owner of a Saab 9-4X.

cannon3 · July 2011

When you see money shifting around like this it is usually not a good sign. SAAB is floundering and unfortunately will cease to exist in the coming years..

stever · July 2011

Even worse, they have 11,000 orders but can't fill them because everyone over the Pond takes August off.

Saab Production Halt Extended (Inside Line)

I never thought much of Saabs, nor Scandinavian cars period after my Volvo experiences in the 70s, but I'm beginning to root for Saab just because they are such an underdog.

If you owned one, you certainly wouldn't see yourself coming and going at least.

isellhondas · July 2011

What was the last rear for the "real" Saabs before GM got involved with them?

I wouldn't mind picking up a nice convertable as a fun car but I know they can be nightmares sometimes.

carpedrewum · July 2011

Convertibles are always nightmares! ALWAYS!

fintail · July 2011

I think 1993 was the last year of old school Saabs, convertibles might have soldiered on until 94. Hard to find a really nice one anymore, they aren't the most durable item.

isellhondas · July 2011

Yeah, I know. Saabs are so quirky.

Still, for some reason I've always liked them.

The convertable top mechanics are usually troublesome too.

fezo · July 2011

I just got back from an NJ to NH ride in my brother's 01 9-3 convertible. That is right about at the end of the run where they were all Saab. It was so hot (over 100) going up that we had teh top up but the top went down the whole trip back, What a nice ride!

lemko · July 2011

Well, there was also the Dodge Dart Phoenix:

nvbanker · August 2011

Clearly, GM brought SAAB into the 21st Century, before that, they were a joke. However, I don't care if they survive. I'm fine either way, as long as they don't get a government bailout in order to make it.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2011

Why exactly do you care what foreign governments do regarding a bailout?

fezo · September 2011

From Automotive News:

DETROIT -- Saab Cars North America President Tim Colbeck said he remains optimistic about the automaker's future even after its parent company filed for protection from creditors in a Swedish court earlier today.

Communication with dealers, owners and consumers is a priority today and in the future, Colbeck said in a telephone interview with Automotive News.

Saab's owner, Swedish Automobile NV, said in a statement that Saab Automobile AB is seeking court approval for a voluntary reorganization to secure short-term stability while it waits for funding from Chinese investors Pang Da Automobile Trade Co. and Zhejiang Youngman Lotus Automobile Co.

"It is business as usual," Colbeck said. "We want to communicate this especially to the public because I think there is a misperception that this is a bankruptcy proceeding and that the company is bankrupt.

"In essence it is a transitionary stage for us to really get us in a solid footing to relaunch the brand with new equity partners and recapitalize business," he said.

Talking to dealers

Colbeck said dealers were contacted this morning via e-mail to alert them about the filing in Sweden. Saab management held a conference call with dealers this afternoon.

Lynn Thompson, a Springfield, Mo., dealer who sells Saabs, Cadillacs, Buicks and GMCs, said today's announcement "was inevitable. Something had to be done. Is it reorganization? Is it bankruptcy. What exactly is it?"

Over the past year, "too many times people were saying, 'we got it done. We got this done and then it would fall apart,'" said Thompson. "There is a reason it kept falling apart. That leads me to believe there is more to it than reorganizing."

Bernie Moreno, president of Collection Auto Group in the Cleveland area, and a member of the Saab dealer council, said he remains optimistic about the brand. The group also sells Acura, Buick, GMC, Lotus, Infiniti, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche and Smart.

"You have to remember that two years ago everybody wrote off Chrysler and now they almost outsold Toyota last month," Moreno said.

If this was a situation that was happening in '06 or '07," before the economy tanked and General Motors and Chrysler went through bankruptcy, "then I would be really concerned. But I think at the end of the day (Saab CEO Victor Muller) will pull it out, and Saab will be right on track and move forward."

More communication

Colbeck also said Saab opened a central call center today to answer owners' questions about parts availability, warranties, and other topics. The vehicle warranty is unchanged, for example.

A statement directed to consumers explaining the reorganization also was posted this morning at saabusa.com.

"We believe that communication is critical in this time frame so that everybody knows exactly what is gong on," Colbeck said.

Regarding floorplanning, Colbeck said its lender, Ally Financial Inc., formerly GMAC, is supporting Saab and its dealers.

"They see no financial impact of this reorganization. They continue to lend for retail and wholesale to dealers that are creditworthy. They are supportive of the Saab business," Colbeck said.

While it is unclear when vehicle production will restart in Sweden, it is also unclear when production of the 9-4X crossover will resume. Production of the 2012 model had been scheduled to begin later this month. The 9-4X was developed when Saab was a division of General Motors. Crossover sales began this spring, as a 2011 model.

"GM is a supplier and now all suppliers are being treated equal," Colbeck said. "Can't be sure what is going to happen for the next model year. That will be determined during the scope of this reorganization."

No reorganization in North America

Colbeck said the North American organization is a separate subsidiary and it will not be reorganized. It employs 64 and there have been no layoffs since production in Sweden was halted in June. North American salaries have not been affected by the reorganization in Sweden, he said.

"I think the future of this company is very strong," Colbeck said. "We just got to get there and this is what this is all about."

Victor Muller, CEO of both Saab and Swedish Automobile, said in the statement: "We have concluded that a voluntary reorganization process will provide us with the necessary time, protection and stabilization of the business, allowing salary payments to be made, short-term funding to be obtained and an orderly restart of production to be prepared."

Like Colbeck, Muller said he remains optimistic about Saab's future. "While the voluntary reorganization process will no doubt present us with a number of tough issues and decisions, I believe that Saab Automobile will emerge stronger from this process," he said.

Muller added that "the potential for Saab Automobile as a viable, independent premium car manufacturer is there, as shown by the rejuvenation of our product portfolio, approximately 11,000 orders and the conditional long-term funding already in place through the binding agreements with Pang Da and Youngman that will give us access to the Chinese market."

Terms of investments

Muller has agreed to sell a combined 53.9 percent stake in Saab to Chinese auto distributor Pang Da and automaker Zhejiang Youngman for 245 million euros ($351 million). The deal is awaiting approval from the Chinese authorities.

Saab's subsidiaries Saab Automobile Powertrain AB and Saab Automobile Tools AB are part of the reorganization filing submitted to the Vanersborg court at 9 am local time. But other units, including Saab Great Britain, Saab Cars North America and Saab Parts AB, were excluded.

Muller said Pang Da and Youngman both support the reorganization.

"Swan and Saab Automobile are of the opinion that, considering Saab Automobile's current limited financial resources, a voluntary reorganization will entail the best preconditions for using existing resources in the most efficient way," a Swedish Automobile statement said.

Self managed reorganization

If the court approves, the reorganization will be a self-managed, legal process under Swedish law headed by an independent administrator appointed by the court who will work closely with the Saab Automobile management team, the statement added.

If the court approves Saab's filing, the reorganization will be for three months, although the court may later extend this period to a maximum of twelve months.

"Swan and Saab Automobile are confident that they will secure additional short-term funding for the reorganization period and are currently in negotiations with several parties about obtaining such funding," the statement said.

As part of the process, Saab has formulated a reorganization plan aimed at lowering its cost-base and creating a viable, competitive and independent organization. The plan will be presented to creditors in more detail within three weeks, although this period c

martian · September 2011

It looks like SAAB is a member of the walking dead-this looks like the grave is being dug.
Frankly, I doubt that the Chinese are interested in buying a corpse-exactly how do you sell cars like this? Do prospective buyers relish the idea of buying an instant orphan? :sick:

robr2 · September 2011

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904836104576558284181464182.html?m- od=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

Cliff's - Swedish court feels their reorg plan won't work based on their history (including reorg from 2 years ago) and the Chinese bailout isn't guaranteed.

harmiclir · September 2011

With the impending bankruptcy of Saab has anyone done anything to the price they expect, or hope, to get on a personal car sale? I've written down the sale price I'd expect to get because it will reduce the market for Saabs and make service more expensive as spare parts become scarcer.

What do other people think?

martian · September 2011

IMO, if SAAB goes under, spare parts will become a big problem-except for the parts that were common with GM cars. Many of the engine parts from the Saturn L-100/200/300 cars were shared with SAAB, so they oght to be obatinable for years to come.
Does it make sense to by an orphan? If the price gets low enough-maybe a good deal.
However, let's all take a moment of silence to mourn SAAB!

hpmctorque · September 2011

Sob!

stever · September 2011

2011 hasn't been completely filled in yet.

If Saab Finally Done, End Began 20 Years Ago (AutoObserver)

cannon3 · October 2011

about SAAB loan/issues consumers will look to other brands and sales will go even lower for SAAB. This is the end folks for SAAB. Who would even think about buying a car from SAAB? or even putting a deposit down on one not knowing if you are even going to get your car or even your deposit back??

stever · October 2011

What a saga - "In yet another eleventh-hour twist, Saab Automobile on Thursday said it expects to receive an immediate cash infusion of $70 million from an unexpected source  North Street Capital, the Connecticut-based private-equity firm which in late September announced a deal to acquire Spyker Cars from Saab's corporate parent, Swedish Automobile."

Saab Finds Another Cash Source - in the U.S. (Inside Line)

Two Chinese companies are still interested but they've "changed" their deal (i.e., they want to pay less). Meanwhile the bankruptcy court administrator has essentially told the Swedish court that "it's over" and the company should be declared bankrupt. (WSJ)

Saab keeps fighting back, but next Friday, 10/28, may be it.

Saab Calls Out Youngman and Pang Da, Reorganization Termination Filed (Straightline)

hpmctorque · October 2011

From today's Automotive News:

"China's Pang Da, Youngman agree to buy Saab
David Jolley
and Paul McVeigh October 28, 2011 - 4:09 am

Chinese firms Pang Da Automobile Trade Co. and Zhejiang Youngman Lotus Automobile Co. have agreed to buy Saab for 100 million euros ($142 million).

Saab owner, Swedish Automobile, said on Friday that it has entered into a memorandum of understanding to sell 100 percent of the shares of Saab to the Chinese companies.

Swedish Automobile said an important part of the deal 'is the commitment of Pang Da and Youngman to provide long-term funding to Saab Automobile.'

The memorandum of understanding is valid until Nov. 15, provided Saab stays in reorganization. Swedish Automobile said Saab's administrator, Guy Lofalk, has withdrawn his application to a Swedish court for Saab to exit reorganization.

Pang Da and Youngman will provide sufficient financing so that a court-backed reconstruction process under creditor protection can continue, a court document showed. The court had been due later on Friday to decide on Lofalk's application.

Swedish Automobile Chairman Victor Muller said the deal has 'secured the future of Saab.' He told Sweden's Sverige Radio that Saab would now be able to pay its creditors, restart production, launch new models and expand in China.

Muller said the Chinese companies are committed to investing 500 million euros in Saab. He told the radio station that he will stay on as Saab CEO until a new CEO is found and he will remain involved in Saab in the future."

stever · October 2011

This soap opera has lasted longer than Game Six of the Texas/St. Louis World Series. :P

stever · November 2011

"GM would not be able to support a change in the ownership of Saab which could negatively impact GM's existing relationships in China or otherwise adversely affect GM's interests worldwide," said GM spokeswoman Renee Rashid-Merem.

GM is Saab's former parent company, and it was one of four brands GM opted to get rid of during its 2009 bankruptcy restructuring. GM owns the technology Saab uses to produce two key models, which gives GM the upper hand.

The deal must win approval from the European Investment Bank, the Swedish and Chinese governments and GM. "

GM could oppose sale of Saab to Chinese investors (Detroit News)

robr2 · November 2011

I was wondering when GM was going to pop up. They are licensing technology to SAAB. I presume they don't want their own technology being used to compete against them in the lucrative Chinese market.

Somewhere deep in the sale documents of SAAB to the Dutch was the restriction on future sale of SAAB. GM really does have the upper hand here.

fezo · November 2011

Leave it to GM to put a car maker it doesn't even own into bankruptcy. Takes a special kind of talent.

stever · November 2011

Quote of the day.

The Future of Saab?

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