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The Future of Saab?

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited November 2011
    Don't have any insight on Saab's future, but according to today's Automotive News Saab sold 337 vehicles in the U.S. in October, and 4,949 so far in 2011.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    GM to block sale of Saab (Detroit News)
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    No. No. That was the OLD GM that had a say in Saab's dealings. The GM that won't honor Impala warranties.

    Just wait for the Chinese to be ticked off enough at this to just seize GM's portion of their joint venture in China - the one that sells more cars than GM does here.....

    NOw, in more actual reality I suppose this means the death of Saab has arrived.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2011
    Saab finally files for bankruptcy. They already were under court administration but this likely means liquidation. With Saab though, you never know.

    "The company has been on life support the past nine months, and in the third quarter the company manufactured only 130 and sold 1,235 cars.

    So why have media kept reporting about Saab Auto, one may rightfully ask? The reason is that somehow, this quirky little car brand with its few, but fiercely loyal enthusiasts, has been a source of great affection, nostalgia and Swedish nationalism."

    Watch for the name to survive though; someone will bid for the brand and whatever assets get sold.

    Saab Bankruptcy: What Does It Really Mean? (WSJ)
  • hokie28hokie28 Member Posts: 16
    Does this mean if I were to buy a Saab, I would get a good price on one? Will they be willing to deal?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    One thing it means it that I may join the list of not even looking at GM vehicles anymore. It's one thing for them to nearly kill themselves. It's an entirely different matter for them to kill another car company because they have the power to do so. To hell with them.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, the Chinese wanted to buy the assets of Saab, and those assets include GM technology that GM licensed to Saab. So now the Chinese will have to reverse engineering cars instead of simply following a set of blueprints, so to speak.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Maybe I'm wrong but I'm betting most of that technology the Chinese already have from their joint venture with GM. It's not like GM had unique technology for Saab. It's all over the Epsilon platform.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, it does make a convenient excuse not to have Chinese Saabs competing for market share with Chinese Buicks.
  • ccappaccappa Member Posts: 29
    I suspect the "Chinese Saab" issue is the real reason, a lot more than the supposed "IP" issue.

    One more for the no-GM-ever-again brigade. And my family were GM people going back aways
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I think it's more of a long term concern with the US market. IIRC, a Geeley recently achieved a high crash test score in the Euro testing - with pre-Volvo technology.

    Imagine having a competitor come after you with your own technology.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Good point - the global market can come back to bite you in lots of ways, including in your own backyard.

    At least in North America, the courts would be a little more sympathetic to a technology theft lawsuit.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    And now no warranty...should make clearing out the leftovers very easy. Sad way to end it.
  • hokie28hokie28 Member Posts: 16
    That just means even bigger discounts if they want to unload.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    They will have no choice. I'd think a third off at least, as I assume a buyer would have no lemon law rights, either.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Aftermarket warranty anyone?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...on a orpahn Saab? The cost of that will negate the discount on the car.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The Top 5 Saabs of All Time

    imageimageimageimageimage
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    GM To Honor Some Saab Warranties...Because They Have to (Straightline)
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    That can't be good news. You sent a dead link....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Sigh.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2011
    Hm, somewhere along the line part of the URL got changed from /gm-to-honor to /general-motors-to-honor. Oh well, trying again.

    General Motors To Honor Some Saab Warranties...Because They Have to

    Wonder how many sudden acceleration cases popped up when people couldn't find the ignition switch?

    And Vonnegut ran a Saab dealership. That's a bit bizarre.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Saab has no future, just a past. Criticisms that GM killed Saab are inaccurate. Saab was on its death bed when GM first bought a stake in the company, and later bought the remaining shares. Unfortunately, GM failed to fulfill its goal of appealing to customers that were attracted to Euro brands rather GM models. The net result was that instead of turning a sick Saab around, GM merely kicked the can down the road. In fairness to to GM, though, turning Saab around would have been difficult, since it was a niche brand. Difficult, but possible.

    What Saab had, and still has to a remarkable degree, is a core of super loyal owners and fans. The problem is that core is too small to achieve the economies of scale required to be competitive today. GM's plan to address that by sharing platforms and components with Opel was reasonable, and might have worked, if executed differently. I think the main problem was that GM execs didn't understand Saab well enough. They understood Saab's uniqueness conceptually, as in an MBA case study, but that level of understanding was too superficial to introduce models that would continue to appeal to Saab loyalists, and to expand the base of ownership. That's too bad, but the marketplace has rendered the final verdict.

    One thing that can be said about Saab is that if there was ever a car brand with nine lives, Saab was that brand.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    What Saab had, and still has to a remarkable degree, is a core of super loyal owners and fans.

    The problem with those owners is that most were loyal owners and fans of pre-owned Saabs. Although they were huge supporters, even they knew not to buy a new Saab.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Interesting. Didn't know that.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    If you were to visit any Saab board, most would only buy used after the depreciation hit.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Good name for the platform. Sounds like Saab owns all the IP for that platform, and there's a good chance the Saab name will live on in some form, somewhere.

    Saab may never build another car, but name will live on (USA Today)
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    The asset sale may include Saab's factory equipment, but no GM know-how for building and developing cars, powertrains and vehicle architectures.

    And this is a bad thing? :confuse:
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    First I've heard of this.

    "Even though the company entered bankruptcy protection late last year and has largely ceased operations, its cars still have a following of clubs and enthusiastic individual owners. A lot of these folks are planning to meet at dealerships, mechanic shops, restaurants and other spots today, tomorrow and next weekend in what could be a final show of support for Saab before the lights go out for good."

    Saab Owners Still Rallying To Support Brand (WSJ)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Trustees have previously said six or seven potential investors are mulling plans to save the brand from dissolution.

    They wouldn't reveal how many bidders remained in the race Tuesday or when proceedings are expected to be concluded."

    Saab's assets are too small to cover debts (Detroit News)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Saab still isn't permanently dead yet? Amazing.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2012
    Oh, different Youngman. No fiddling around this time?

    Youngman Makes Another Bid for Saab (Straightline)

    The bankruptcy court gave Saab six months to pay their bills. They couldn't. So the judge gave 'em another six months. /badda boom
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2012
    "Bankrupt Saab has been sold to a Chinese-Swedish investment group that plans to make electric vehicles and focus on "future transportation solutions."

    The company "will start a new operation" to develop and produce electric cars, the administrator of the bankruptcy process said on Wednesday. No sale price was given for Saab. The new owners did not say how much they plan to invest in the Swedish automaker."

    Saab Sold, Will Concentrate on Production of Electric Cars (Inside Line)
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Don't suppose that will do anything for folks like my brother when he needs parts for his 2001 9-3 convertible....

    I see they are only buying parts of Saab - leaving things like the 9-5 and 9-4 with GM.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2012
    GM wouldn't part with their technology behind the 9-4 and 9-5. They squashed one prior deal because of that.

    Sounds like there's still some jockeying going on over the rights to the Saab brand name.

    Some Swedish state that's owed money has interest in the spare parts business so tell your brother to brush up on his nusvenska.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    I suspect that before it comes to that he'll move on to something else though he does hang on to cars a long time.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • harmiclirharmiclir Member Posts: 8
    Got in a fender-bender in my '03 9-3 two days ago. GEICO, which is a great company and has taken care of me for years, told me that within two years there will be no spare body parts for any Saab brands and that it can't guarantee that future repairs will be made.....our Saabs are probably worth more now for parts than as cars.

    Get out of your Saab while you still can. I love the Saab. It has very low mileage and I'd have been able to keep it for another ten years with some loving care. Not going to happen. Oh well.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Well Geico is wrong. SAAB Parts AB was independent of SAAB Cars AB. They were not part of the bankruptcy and are still in business.

    SAAB parts will be available for as long as it is financially feasible for SAAB Parts to be profitable making them. Further, there are plenty of aftermarket companies that make body and mechanical parts.
  • bachebache Member Posts: 1
    Do I have any recourse? My 2010 9-3 Saab was determined to be a Lemon but the Bankruptcy judge denied the claim. Since then the Engine lost compression with only 25k miles on the car. I still have 12 payments left on the lease.

    Does anybody have any ideas? Class action lawsuit?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Unfortunately, 2010+ SAABS were warrantied by SAAB US which of course is bankrupt. A class action suit would require multiple plaintiffs suing a company that doesn't exist anymore.

    I think you are out of luck.
  • harmiclirharmiclir Member Posts: 8
    Fine. You don't want to take my word or Geico's word for it then I suggest that you drive VERY carefully as long as you own your car because you will not be able to get it repaired in any reasonable period of time or for any reasonable cost. There is NOTHING profitable connected with Saab at this point. The only reason I have a new rear bumper is that another Saab was conveniently totaled the week before I brought it into a very well-regarded body shop.

    As to engine spare parts, who knows? Saabs are worth more "dead" than they are "alive" at this point. Whatever happens in China or with any relic of the old Saab is irrelevant to those of us who own, and love, a Saab.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,704
    Well, it does look like GEICO is wrong. Read more here.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...then I suggest that you drive VERY carefully as long as you own your car because you will not be able to get it repaired in any reasonable period of time or for any reasonable cost.

    No skin off my nose - I drive a VW.

    The only SAABs which may have an issue with parts availability is the new 95 and the 97. So few of those were made that body parts will be tough to find. Mechanical parts will be easier as they are basically GM.
  • harmiclirharmiclir Member Posts: 8
    seemed like considered opinions of Geico and my highly regarded body shop. You can accept it or ignore it. No skin off my nose, either.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I don't think I would make any more of those lease payments though. ;-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Maybe.

    Saab Deal Delayed (Straightline)
  • harmiclirharmiclir Member Posts: 8
    Whether this deal goes through or not will have no real effect on any of us. The "new" Saab is going to produce electric/hybrid cars for the domestic Chinese market.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2012
    I dunno, there's still a lot of brand equity in the Saab name that could be put to use in the EU and in North America. I could see the name being licensed for another ICE model, maybe produced by a partner automaker if they convert the Trollhattan factory to nothing but EVs.

    Last I heard, the various parties were still fighting over rights to the brand name.

    And I understand that the Swedish government was taking over Saab Auto as a loan repayment, but I don't know if they get to keep the name either.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Dutch company Spyker said it was suing General Motors for $3 billion on behalf of its subsidiary Saab, accusing the U.S. automaker of deliberately driving Saab into bankruptcy by interfering with a planned deal with a Chinese investor."

    Spyker sues GM for $3 billion over Saab bankruptcy (Reuters)

    My guess is that Spyker wants to settle this fast in exchange for the use of some of GM's technology.
  • harmiclirharmiclir Member Posts: 8
    I wish I could have any confidence that this was going to "end well" for Saab but I think you are quite correct that all that is left of our beloved company is a carcass, otherwise known as the "nameplate." I don't believe that Spyker has any leverage with GM at all at this point and that GM has already written down its investment in Saab to zero and will flick Spyker aside like a flea.

    There is no value in Saab for US or European Saab-owners. Any "Saab" that exists, GM tech or none, will function only in China.

    Game over.
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