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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    My point about the 'Car and Driver' article was that there was certainly no clear victory on the Ody's part. It was a one-point-win, mitigated by a 'depends on your preference' caveat.

     
    I would be saying the same had it been the opposite, so you put words in my mouth. 'C&D' reviewers are as biased toward sports-car-handling as 'Consumer Reports' editors are toward practicality.

     

    So it's no surprise they chose the '04 Ody (again, by a hair) over the '04 Sienna. These guys don't give a hoot about road noise, so long as the driving experience is 'fun' (if that's even possible with a minivan). The quiet luxury of a Sienna is lost on a bunch of guys who would rather be driving Porsches anyway.

     

    (Don't misunderstand me, I love 'C&D,' and have been a subscriber since 1979). Now if they'd just do an unbiased evaluation of PAX on the '05.....
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    But I'm not sure it applies here. One scenario is a bit more desirable than the other.....

     

    And just why would I trust those TOP-NOTCH automotive reviewers at 'Money' and 'Kiplingers'..... I don't buy audio equipment that's recommended in 'Playboy'....
  • digiproddigiprod Member Posts: 12
    PAX tires will end up dropping the resale value of the Odyssey Touring model. Especially after Honda decides it is losing sales to Sienna (lost my sale this way, I cancelled my Honda order and I pick up my Sienna tomorrow) or people will buy lower end Odyssey to stay away from a dead end with the Touring PAX issues. And then changes Touring in 2006 or sooner!!!

     

    Who will want to buy a vehicle with very expensive, hard to find tires, only sold by Michelin (a French company) and Honda where the price and availibility is totally controlled by them?

     

    Remind you that, being the poor person stuck on a vacation or weekend spending all his time and money finding a replacement PAX. There are none in Canada, so Honda owners, no not visit there without STRAPPING one PAX on the roof. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, you can not strap it to the roof, unless you bought the "cross bar option" as Honda does not included these like most other car makers do with a roof rack!

     

    Odyssey is a great van, but so is Sienna. I drove both models several times. All this talk about how mine is faster than yours, or gets 1 mile an hour better gas mileage will mean nothing when you are stuck in THAT Odyssey Touring with a bad PAX tire and I go by you smiling in my new Toyota Sienna XLE Limited!!! I could not even stop to help you, no one CAN!!!

     

    PAX is a nice idea in theory, but for a person who drives on vacation or gets stuck on weekend the support will suck. If PAX was so great, why not make them mandatory on Acura?

     

    Why does Honda hide these PAX FACTS from the buyers? There was little reason except control, to NOT make PAX an option on Touring. Or have the option to allow for a regular tire to fit. Or AT LEAST include some kind of donut spare, instead of leaving the space in the Touring EMPTY! They almost HAD me, but I got away before delivery. Thank you Edmunds forum again! Time will tell.

     

    Stephen A
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    I guess it depends on your point of view. There isn't a minivan made that I get much driving pleasure from. The Odyssey may handle marginally better than the Sienna but who cares? Neither one of them handle very well in an absolute sense, and the differences aren't big. It's like arguing about cup holders in a Viper vs. a Corvette.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    as noted, the difference was one point. The primary reason the Ody won was related to features. basically, they tested an EXL vx. an LE, and the Honda had more goodies. Hence, it won the features catagory.

     

    IIRC, the test pretty much confirmed popular perceptions. The Sienna was cushier and quieter, and the Ody was more of a "drivers" car.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Most of the criterea used in rating vehicles are subjective. The bottom line is, C&D can arrive at the desired conclusion (on subjectivity alone). I won`t dispute which van is better. Those who purchase them will evedently be in the best posistion to judge.
  • susiejsusiej Member Posts: 12
    I think only an uninformed consumer would find PAX tires to be a huge plus. I have spoken with two uninformed Honda salesman as well who didn't believe me when I told them the tires were an odd size ( 17.5 inches I believe).

     

    If consumers knew they couldn't travel to Canada and will have great difficulty finding replacement tires in the States, they would not be buying Touring models.

     

    ISELLHONDAS , do you let your customers know these facts before they purchase a touring model?
  • yatesdyatesd Member Posts: 60
    colemanr7,

     

    If you read your owners manual you'll see that Toyota recommends premium fuel.

     

    87 octane is OK, as long as you don't insist on the advertised HP and gas mileage.
  • yatesdyatesd Member Posts: 60
    heywood,

     

    That is not true. PAX tire technology provides advantages in ride quality, repairability, rated distance when driven flat, and ability to work with heavier vehicles compared to conventional run-flats. That's why Michelin considers this to be their best technology, even though they also sell regular run-flat tires.

     

    Furthermore, it is my understanding that your rare tire size on the Sienna also limits your tire choices and increases replacement costs.
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    What could possibly be the repairability advantages of PAX? Would it be because you're strictly limited to a Honda or Michelin dealer for repair? Or maybe it's the fact that you're dependant on a Honda dealer having a 'hat box' in stock? Please explain.

     

    I will grant you the point that one can probably drive an extra 50 miles or so with a PAX tire, vs. a convention run-flat.

     

    I cannot speak to advantages of ride quality. But I do know that with conventional run-flats, I have some options. If your PAX tires turn out to be awful in wet or snowy conditions, you're stuck with them (pardon the pun)-- even if they DO have a nice ride on a dry and sunny day.

     

    Finally, the 17" wheels on my Sienna ARE NOT RARE! Seventeen inches is a STANDARD SIZE! (Why do people keep saying this?) The 18.1" of PAX, however, most certainly IS rare...
  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    PAX Tires are 18.1 inches. They have no bead, and are flush with the rim...Weird, but cool!!!!
  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    Yatesd:

    You write:"87 octane is OK, as long as you don't insist on the advertised HP and gas mileage."

     

    Do you have objective evidence that Sienna doesn't develop 230 HP with regular fuel? The manual only states "premium recommended for improved performance". It is more likely the HP numbers will go up by 5 if you use premium and not the other way around.

     

    As pointed out by others, currently Sienna has a better power to weight ratio, so that is better IMO.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    Once the "Tweel" comes to market, PAX and regular run flats will be irrelevant.

     

    The Tweel was written up this month in one of my car magazines. Basically it is an integrated wheel/tire that is not inflated. Some sort of wire thingees support the rubber tread, which is replaceable.

     

    So, no chance of a flat, no need for a spare, etc.

     

    Look really weird though, with no sidewall. But, if they work as hoped, will comepletely revolutionize tire technology!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Tweel link (Michelin)

     

    Steve, Host
  • weizeweize Member Posts: 1
    My 2005 sienna AWD uses the run-flat tires without a spare. Luckily, the wheel size is standard 17". I have checked with a tire dealer. They do not carry the run-flat. I think Honda's PAX has the same concept as Toyota's run-flat.

     

    Obviously, Honda and Toyota are helping the tires companies to promote these new types of tires with the expenses of non-informed consumers.

     

    Toyota sienna AWD has to use the run-flat since they can't find a underbody place for a spare.

     

    I may have to buy a spare and put it behind the third row seats when I replace the all four run-flats to four regular tires. Also, I hope the price and availability of the run-flat or PAX will be better in a couple of years.

     

    Any comments?
  • colemanr7colemanr7 Member Posts: 8
    "87 octane is OK, as long as you don't insist on the advertised HP and gas mileage."

     

    Thanks for the feedback. Toyota recommends premium fuel for "increased" performance... not for "standard" performance. As stated before, we are getting very good gas mileage on 87 octane--equal or better than advertised in fact--without any knocking/pinging. I don't mean for this to be an arguing point... it is just my own experience (to date) with a Sienna. In short, the van runs very well on 87 octane.
  • davenowdavenow Member Posts: 171
    mine too. i never used 91 or better. i'm averaging about 24-25 mpg in 70-30 split highway-city(1) driving.

     

    i might add that i don't warm-up the van at all from a cold start, just let it do that on the way.

     

    1 - city - here means locally sporadic stop and go country driving with short perhaps steep hilly terrain in some spots.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    To answer your question, yes, I tell them the pros and cons. So far, the only fears or complaints I've heard are right here, in these forums. Most people see benefits in having them.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Are the benefits they see the benefits of RFTs in general or PAX tires in particular?

     

    I understand and can appreciate the benefits of RFTs in general. That being said, I don't like proprietary technology which FORCES me to use one particular tire, and ONLY one particular tire. That is a huge liablitiy which the PAX tire has which other RFTs do not.
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    Really?... So when you mention that these tires can only be replaced at a Honda dealer or a Michelin dealer (one that's decided to purchase the PAX equipment), and that replacement cost is going to be about $1,000 for set (parts, labor, taxes, & bogus parts disposal fee most car dealers charge), the customer says 'Great, it's worth it!'?

     

    I suspect the reason you've heard no fears or complaints is that the customer doesn't yet realize what he's getting into...
  • recio3recio3 Member Posts: 2
    I BOUGHT A TOYOTA SIENNA 2005 LE MODEL 10 DAYS AGO THE DAY AFTER I BOUGHT IT IT WOULDN'T START THEY CAME OUT AND JUST AS THEY PULLED UP TO WHERE I WAS IT STARTED. THEY SAID DON'T WORRY IT WAS NOTHING I PROBABLY DIDN'T HAVE IT IN PARK ALL THE WAY. 4 DAYS LATER IT DIED AGAIN AND HAS NOT STARTED SINCE THEY REPLACED THE FUEL PUMP BUT THAT DIDN'T WORK MY VAN HAS BEEN IN THE SHOP FOR6 DAYS AND THEY STILL DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS WRONG THEY SAID THEY WILL REPLACE IT
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Try the Toyota Sienna Owners: Problems & Solutions (2004+) discussion.

     

    And please turn off the caps lock - shouting is hard to read.

     

    Steve, Host
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    Well, it certainly sounds like a fluke problem, and you should feellucky that they will switch you to another new van.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    Maybe you should have bought the better of the 2 vans instead...........
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Maybe you should have bought the better of the 2 vans instead..........."

     

    The IS no purely objective better unless EVERYONE agrees on exactly what criteria will be used to judge. We all have different criteria, therefor, what may be 'better' for recio3 may not be 'better' for stickguy, or 'better' for rorr, or even 'better' for you, a Honda salesman.

     

    Are you stating, categorically, that Honda is incapable of producing a vehicle which would exibit the sort of problem which recio3 is having?
  • carzzzcarzzz Member Posts: 282
    Odyssey is better, it does not "hesitate" like Sienna, Highlander, ES330, RX330, camry V6... and those toyota cars are definitely giving some safety conerns to the drivers as well as passengers!

     

    Here are two articles on hesitation problem!

     

    http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm

     

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04343/423383.stm
  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    I just thought I would get things started, especially since Honda is again the best brand for retaining value for new cars and trucks. This was from Automotive Lease Guide and on CNN Money.

     

    Plus last year's Odyssey was #1 in NHTSA safety for vans; and Honda improved upon that this year with the new Industry Leading safety equipment.

     

    Let the bickering begin.
  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    You write:

    "Plus last year's Odyssey was #1 in NHTSA safety for vans; and Honda improved upon that this year with the new Industry Leading safety equipment."

     

    What would be this *leading* safety equipment, if I may ask? Actually, Sienna is the best based on IIHS tests and IIRC, in NHSTA tests, Ody, Sienna, Freestar and Quest all got five stars all around.
  • pazbienpazbien Member Posts: 11
    You wrote*, "What would be this *leading* safety equipment, if I may ask? Actually, Sienna is the best based on IIHS tests and IIRC, in NHSTA tests, Ody, Sienna, Freestar and Quest all got five stars all around"

     

    THE ANSWER is simply, ACE Body Structure Honda/acura invented and added to the TL and the ODyssey 05'. I'm sure it will improve the driver and passengers saftey. If you need more info just visit the odyssey's site. By the way, how can you say Sienna did better than Honda in NHSTA tests 2005, when Honda Odyssey hasn't been tested yet. You trully are Sienna biase!!
  • pazbienpazbien Member Posts: 11
    Touring bought over Sienna because of one simple reason............... MORE RELIABLE. I've owned 3 odyssey's and have never had any problems. So far so good... My friend has owned 2 Sienna's and his brand new 2005, would not start. What's going ON? Sienna owner's on every Forum attack PAX PAX PAX, and don't realize that if PAX is as HORRIBLE as sienna owners say, "why would Rolls Royce use them? because their cheap? NO, because there stiff? NO, then why, SIMPLE, the tires have been tested enough and proved to be better than regular run flats. I own a MINI Cooper and a Chrysler 300 both 2005 with run flats(MINI) and (Chrysler)self sealing tires, and my odyssey has a much smoother ride, comparable to my friends lexus. I know honda screwed up with the first 12,000 new 05' ody's but this was a new model, in a new plant(ALABAMA), it could have been worse. Anyway my point is before you keep on making false accusations on cars you haven't owned or test driven, go to a dealer and test drive, AND MAKE SURE they are the NEW ones being made and not the first car that was produced!

    I didn't buy the Sienna because of my friends problem, with the car not starting. Also when I test drove the sienna the engine over heated..... Toyota should fix these vans before they let us test drive them.... P.S. I still wish honda had added HID lights to the Ody, but if they do it won't be anytime soon, because they would have to redesign the front end in order to "make way for hid technology"
  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    Oh I know 2005 Ody hasn't been tested yet. jsmath brought up 2004 Ody, so that's the result I wrote about.

     

    Now, other than Honda, no one knows how the so called ACE structure performs. 2004 Sienna was IIHS's best pick overall above the 04 Ody. While I don't expect 05 Ody to perform poorly in crash tests, those of you who buy in to Honda's marketing that it is better than other vans, don't have any objective evidence to support the assertion.

     

    Honda also told us all that the Ody will be the quietest van. However, as you can see from these forums, the general opinion is that Sienna and T&C are still quieter. But, it all comes down to personal preference in the end, doesn't it? If one likes more driver feel, Ody is the van to buy. If one wants a more isolated ride, go for the Sienna. My personal preference is that minivans should be comfortable, quiet and smooth as a kids mover and that's why I went with the Sienna and Hondas are generally uncomfortable for me.

     

    I don't put too much faith in to Consumer Reports' rating, but, the previous generation Sienna was the most reliable in its category and there is absolutely no endemic problems with the 3.3L engine.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    "I was just at a Toyota dealer in NY and the saleswoman said that Lexus was working on a minivan."

     

    I hope that salesman is correct!

    Thanks for the info.
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    So many reason why. Let's begin with:

     

    1. Phantom owners probably have more than one vehicle. If PAX replacement becomes necessary, no biggie for an owner with a half a dozen other cars.

      

    2. Most Phantom owners won't be driving their $300,000 car in the snow. Lack of winter treads for PAX is a non-issue, as they'll just drive the Range Rover instead.

     

    3. PAX replacement or service must be done by the dealer (or a Michelin dealer who's bought the necessary equipment). You can't even begin to compare the dealer service experience of Rolls-Royce to that of Honda. Phantom owners in need of service have their cars picked up at their homes, and hauled (covered, of course) to the dealer for work. No hassle for THEM!

     

    4. Phantom owners probably won't be complaining about replacement cost-- that is, if they ever put enough miles on the car to require new tires in the first place.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    Yeah, I'm still waiting for C&D magazine to report the actual interior noise level comparison.

     

    Claiming the Ody is the quietest minivan is an extremely bold statement.

     

    I like an extremely quiet and smooth ride--like Lexus LS sedan. And right now, the Sienna is probably still the quietest (unless C&D magazine reports otherwise IMO) and the smoothest.

     

    But at the same time, I want the best Navigation system plus 6 CD changer.

    Right now, the Ody wins in this category.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    Do you think the Toyota's Run-Flat system is better?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hey Andrew, welcome back. I was beginning to think you had shipped out to the South African chrome mines or something :-)

     

    Steve, Host
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    I have no complaints. I was able to obtain run-flat winter tires without trouble, and my local tire shop was able to install them. If availability becomes a problem for summer or winter RFT's, my standard 17" rims allow me to use conventional non-run-flats. Can't do any of this with PAX.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    I want to remind everyone that Rolls Royce used to spec Avon tires on all their models, so their use of the PAX system shouldn't automatically be considered a good thing.....
  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    If Sienna was better in NHTSA, why are the actual figures/numbers higher on the Sienna than the Odyssey. The 2004 Odyssey was #1 in the Minivan class for safety, NHTSA gave that award to the Odyssey, CRV, Pilot, Accord, and Civic. All 5 were #1 in their respective classes. Toyota had 3 vehicles at the top of their classes, Mercury had 2, Ford had 2, and 10 other manufacturers had 1. All on the website. So to improve on a #1 rating for 05 would make it better that #1. Look at the numbers, lower numbers, better results. The Sienna numbers were higher than the Odyssey, higher numbers means more forces exerted on the person's body. So quote as you may about 5 stars, Honda Odyssey was #1 in the Minivan class for safety according to NHTSA.
  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    So the passenger in the 2004 Sienna gets 678 Head Injury Criterion Units in a frontal crash, while the passenger in a 2004 Odyssey gets 358 Head Injury Criterion units.

     

    I may be stupid, but I'd rather be hit by 358 marbles at 30 MPH in an Odyssey vs 678 marbles at 30 MPH in a Sienna.

     

    Shall I continue, or does this dispel the rumors that lower numbers save lives, not stars. I want raw data instead of a controversial words of acceptable, fair, marginal.

     

    The numbers speak for themselves, and when a person sees lower numbers on a comparable test, they know which van has better safety.
  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    According to the vehicle tests done by Consumer Automotive Research Inc. the following results were found.

     

                   Toyota Sienna XLE Limited Honda Odyssey Touring

     

    4000 RPM 60 db 58 db

    20 MPH 65 db 62 db

    60 MPH 72 db 68 db

    Acceleration 73 db 72 db

    With AC on 72 db 67 db

    Bumps 80 db 80 db

     

    Ok that covers Noise levels and safety, what's next? Best van for 2005?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    levels are subjective. That is, at the same db level, you can have different types of sound, some of which are more bothersome than others.

     

    Seats and noise level are about the easiest things to check for yourself. Take a test drive that includes a highway stretch, and you should know what works for you.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    You write:

    "I may be stupid, but I'd rather be hit by 358 marbles at 30 MPH in an Odyssey vs 678 marbles at 30 MPH in a Sienna."

     

    If this difference was supposed to cause serious injury, NHTSA wouldn't have awarded 5 stars to the Sienna. From a salesman's standpoint I guess its ok to point this out, but if you look at IIHS results, you will find that intrusion into the passenger compartment in the Sienna was less than that of 04 Ody. That's one of the reasons why Sienna was IIHS's best pick. You also sort of see this in the pictures on the NHTSA web site.

     

    But, this doesn't address the most pertinent issue. To date, the 2005 Ody hasn't been tested, so all Honda salesmen are simply blowing smoke to hide this. Would 2005 Ody with its newer so called ACE structure be better than the Sienna? I simply don't know and neither is any one else here. However, there is no dearth of marketing hype.

     

    I don't have to tell you about the noise levels on the 05 Ody with so many complaining about it here in these boards. Obviously, there is some discrepency between perception and measurement of these levels as stickguy explains, which was the case with the 04 Ody as well. Particularly, those of us who were used to DC vans, it wa(i)s a bit more noticeable than it would have been otherwise. May be its just a combination of road feel and engine noise this gives this increased noisy feeling, but there is no denying that Sienna and TC are quieter and/or smoother. Again, goes back to preference you know.

     

    If one is not concerned about the latest RES/NAV, the 05 Ody Touring just cannot hold a Candle to the Sienna Limited. That is simply my subjective opinion, based on my preferences. With the Ody having less power to weight ratio than the Sienna, the increased HP really doesn't matter much.
  • colemanr7colemanr7 Member Posts: 8
    "I may be stupid, but I'd rather be hit by 358 marbles at 30 MPH in an Odyssey vs 678 marbles at 30 MPH in a Sienna."

     

    Marbles...??? What are you talking about? Maybe it's a joke and I don't get it?

     

    The head injury index (HIC) is a measure of acceleration (deceleration) and has nothing to do with being "hit". The formula used is non-linear--meaning that a value of 600 doesn't imply "twice the danger" of a 300 value. The length of time over which acceleration occurs (impulse duration) plays heavily in the results but the maximum integration period is less than 50 milliseconds.

     

    NHTSA calculates this value from the peak "integral" deceleration period during a crash impulse and then compares to a "likely injury" threshold criterion. A 5-star rating translates to a "10% or less chance of injury" for the category. HCI is a "relative measure" since it is not derived from nor otherwise connected to actual injury data.

     

    That is why they use words like "good, fair,...etc"--so that people don't misintrepret the raw data.
  • tinyguytinyguy Member Posts: 44
    Man, I envy all of you who shop on the south side of the border... I just cannot afford to purchase a van at $40k+ (CA$)....

     

    I am comparing Ody LX vs Sienna CE, both 7 seater.

     

    LX costs $32.7k MSRP, CE is at $30k MSRP. CE has most of the features I need, minus traction control and privacy glass. This is pretty sad, since I've been leasing minivans so far and I always had well equipped vans. This is the first time I am trying to finance, attempting to reduce the long-term ownership cost. I'd like to keep them for about 6 years.

     

    But here's the kicker. With my trade in, my monthly cost comes out to $670 for Ody while $502 for Sienna! Just for the heck of it, I tried calculating monthly cost for Sienna LE, which costs $35.4k MSRP. It comes out to $645! Still cheaper than Ody LX.

     

    Ok, getting my hopes up and compared XLE, which is at whopping $44.6k... :) $889. Oops. Back to LE. (By the way, Ody EX will cost me $757).

     

    I dunno about you guys, but comparing Ody LX vs Sienna LE, I am tilting towards LE. It has more options and it is cheaper! Even the residual is likely to come out better as it is higher valued vehicle to begin with.

     

    I'm also considering waiting another year, hoping the interest rate to come down. Honda currently charges 6.4%!

     

    Should I relocate to US? :)
  • pazbienpazbien Member Posts: 11
    Untill they get the results of the 05' odyssey you can't judge a 2005 sienna with an 04' ody it just is very unreliable to do so especially after such an upgrade in body structure.

    My wife just purchased an 05' Sienna, and me an 05' Ody, my van is much quieter, as in hers you can hear road noise on the hwy at 45-70 mph, while in the odyssey the only noise I hear is my right side sliding door which has a problem that will be fixed by Honda next week.
  • ktnrktnr Member Posts: 255
    Man, that was a good post! I go through hundreds of messages waiting for one like that. Awesome.
  • pazbienpazbien Member Posts: 11
    Impact01 You said: but there is no denying that Sienna and TC are quieter and/or smoother

    If one is not concerned about the latest RES/NAV, the 05 Ody Touring just cannot hold a Candle to the Sienna Limited

     

    both of those "sentences' to me don't mean anything, you know why, EXPERIENCE. I've test driven a cheap DC and as I said my wife owns a Sienna, and guess what?, both are a not as smooth as my odyssey by about 2 milli points. How can you say, "05 Ody Touring just cannot hold a Candle to the Sienna Limited", do you own the sienna 05' or just by the things you've heard Do you own a Touring?" Besides the HID and Laser cruise control both vans are the same except no moonroof on the sienna XLE Limited, while on the Touring Res/ Nav. I have to disagree with you not because I love the ody but because of my experience with these 2 vans. I would not have paid about $45,500 for a minivan (ody touring) if I thought the sienna was smoother or quieter, and that the HID, Laser cruise control, or the 3rd row power window mattered. To me these are just unnessesary features, that honda missed but will place on future vans, besides competition is gonna get tuff when the newly redesigned KIA which Popular Mechanics says is the most light weight, will be introduced in 05' with HID lights. I SEE COMPETITION COMING SOON!----
  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    You write:"Besides the HID and Laser cruise control both vans are the same except no moonroof on the sienna XLE Limited, while on the Touring Res/ Nav."

     

    Have you even looked at a Sienna Limited? Moonroofs are standard on this trim level, I should know, because I have already have 15K miles on my 04 Arctic Frost Pearl Limited FWD with package 6.

     

    I spent quite a bit of time researching vans including the 2003 models (late 2002), because of my need to replace my 93 T&C. No doubt at that time, the T&C was more luxurious and comfortable and the Ody was plain, functional and noisy but was at least ~$2-3K cheaper than the T&C Limited, so the value for money wasn't quite convincing to buy the T&C. With 04 Sienna arriving Jan 2003, it was the best value for money for me. If I had wanted the cheapest van, I'd have bought a Kia Sedona that even looked a bit more upscale than Ody EXL at that time!.

     

    So, I know about the "cheap DC" you're talking about. I can tell you, they drive much smoother and quiter than the prev. generation Ody. You don't have to take my word for it, because there are so many in these forums that have found the same thing. I have only briefly looked at the 05 Ody since I am not in the market anymore, and the interior on the Touring still looks much cheaper than the Sienna (Sienna is more upscale). Placement of controls etc. on the Sienna is just perfect and I love the leather/wood steering wheel, HID, Laser CC, auto dim mirrors, tri-zone A/C etc. The second and third row sunshades (standard on LTD) are beautifully implemented. I regularly use the third row vents and can't believe in 05 Ody they took it out. PAX is a truly a deal breaker on the Ody Touring. My biggest gripe with the Sienna so far are the crappy Turanza EL42 tires that have close to zero wet traction. Lack of memory seats is probably the next one, but I haven't needed that in a while. I actually like the way RES is implemented in the Sienna now, because my kid can change DVDs without bothering me when I am driving.

     

    Sienna is the quietest between 40-70 mph. Beyond 70mph I hear occasional wind noise, but not road noise. My 93 T&C had wind noise that was much worse, and so IMO, the Sienna is well insulated. I've driven upwards of 700 miles in one day on various roads, and this is one of the most comfortable vehicles that I've ever owned. Then again it all comes down to personal preference. As I said earlier, Ody is the van of choice for people who prefer a better road feel and I am not one of them.
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