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Comments
Yeah, right. Good luck using the voice recognition feature in your Sienna!
"You have storage option in the ODDLY as it HAS NO spare tire at all and has PAX tires that few want. See PAX forum."
By "few" you mean you and a couple other "enthusiasts" on this forum. I've read all the discussions of the PAX and came to a conclusion that this system is still greatly preferrable for MY FAMILY. We don't travel ouside the East Coast in a car and here you have a Honda dealership every 5-30 miles. We recently had a flat on our Mazda MPV and I know I wouldn't have wanted my wife to deal with changing a flat on a minivan with an infant in the car. But this is just a matter of personal preference.
"Sienna second row is also one touch."
That's a load of BS and you know it. Maybe you're thinking about the thrid row? You only have to lift the rear part of the seat in the Odyssey to move in on the front sliding rail. Sienna doesn't have a rail. You have to remove the seat, lift it and put it in another position.
"Sienna has a nice interior,"
Subjective! I like Ody's much better.
"laser cruise control"
There's an ultimate useless gimmick! If there are cars close by, I much prefer using my own judgement than that of a new simplistic system.
"better moonroof,"
I have NO idea what you mean. How can one moonroof be better than the next??? In any case I NEVER EVER open our moonroof. I much prefer micro-filtered, quiet and climate controlled environment.
"better seat heaters,"
In what respect are they better? Do they allow you to choose more than just High and Low? If that's the case, that "improvement" is lost on me. I use only High setting on all my cars and then just turn it off.
" power passenger and driver seats,"
I find this to be of no use whatsoever.
"the Sienna has windows in the rear that OPEN"
I never open ANY windows in our minivan, including the middle row windows that roll down in our MPV.
"sunshades in all rows"
Now that's finally something useful, but Honda has it as a $150 accessory. Sienna does not include floor mats or cargo net, so it's a wash.
"a real roof rack"
By that I presume you mean that Odyssey does not include crossbars. Yes, I find that's it's stupid, but they cost only $140.
"115 volt power in two rows"
I don't anticipate EVER using a 115 volt outlet in our Touring Odyssey, but if I do I'm sure the power cord would reach the extra 2-3 feet!
"better sounding stereo"
How did you come up with this one? I felt that the stereo in the Touring was great and didn't find Sienna XLE Ltd's any better.
I think Starbucks is bitter and I haven't had any DD or KK coffee in years. I have been on a coffee with frothed 2% kick lately at home but I'm really an iced tea guy at heart. And I drive a Quest.
That should skew your poll nicely <g>. For more polling, check out the renewed Minivan Ranking discussion.
Steve, Host
I have to agree with you on the Star Bucks coffee bitter taste. One of the best and addictive coffee following is from Tim Hortons in Canada and some northern states. Just ask any Canadian or someone who has been there! Order it with "double trouble" i.e. double cream and sugar!
However this off-topic discussion is better left for a different forum.
In reliability theory, more parts usually translates to less reliability. However in this comparison, I am not aware of any actual tests that demonstrate the robustness of either.
The Honda dealer I spoke with about AWD said the Pilot is the best AWD family vehicle they have. I think it feels too much like a truck when driving, but I liked the interior space alot.
Being an SUV, the Pilot is designed to look more trucklike but has the driving characteristics of a good handling car like the Ody.
Since you DO need AWD, you next best option would be the Sienna, if you prefer a minivan and its practicality.
http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=3782
Congrats!
Steve, Host
The Pilot is quieter and does not (surprisingly) ride as harshly. While the steering is more responsive, overall, it does not handle as well, apparently due to it riding higher off the ground.
My wife raved about its accident avoidance capability just last week when she had to make a near panic lane change.
I do agree though that is a different animal from a minivan and, if you need AWD, buy a Sienna.
I got one: ever tried contraceptives? :-)
Seriously, though, the manual says you shouldn't put a car seat in the middle. There are no LATCH anchors or that other middle anchor for the PlusOne seat in the middle. Now, if it were a big kid using a booster seat, then you can safely used the regular seat belt.
You might also be able to use a regular seatbelt instead of LATCH on the PlusOne seat, but the safety will be compromised.
If I were you, I'd take a car seat to the dealership and try to fit it on the PlusOne seat.
1st 4.235
2nd 2.360
3rd 1.517
4th 1.047
5th 0.756
http://www.new-cars.com/2004/toyota/toyota-sienna-specs.html
Odyssey Gear ratio
1st 2.563
2nd 1.552
3rd 1.021
4th 0.727/0.767(LX,EX/EX-L,Touring)
5th 0.520/0.595(LX,EX/EX-L,Touring)
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2059?mid=2004083168482&mime=asc
With lighter weight and gear ratio advantage, no wonder Sienna has a better 0-60mph time!
1. I'm short and Sienna is definitely more comfortable. The telescopic wheel really helps. The Touring's adjustable pedals also helps but ...
2. I got back pain from test driving the Odyssey. I test drove both the EX and Touring and got back pain from both. Then after reading this forum I realize it's not just me. Odyssey is just not built for shorter people.
3. Sienna feels more comfortable, more quiet, and handles better.
4. Can't get a Touring with NAV.
5. Can't get a good deal with Honda dealers. All of them want over MSRP.
6. Bad experience with Honda salespeople.
a. Called one day and checked if a Touring was on the lot so that I give it one more chance of adjusting the lumbar support. Then left 10 minutes later. The Touring was sold the day before, supposedly. But the salesman wanted to sit us down in the cubicle and sell us a vehicle he doesn't have at MSRP.
b. Same experience with a different Honda dealer
c. Called several salesman back to tell them that we are going to buy a Sienna for close to invoice. He put me on hold while he checked with his manager and told me he can sell me an EX over MSRP for 34.5K. Called another salesman to thank him for his time, he hung up so quickly as soon as I told him we were going with the Sienna. Basically very rude. Test drove one Odyssey and the salesman didn't know anything about the Odyssey. Then 2 weeks later got a letter "I noticed you haven't bought a car from us yet, when are you going to buy one?"
d. Got a very good deal with Toyota.
I tried to like to Honda, it just didn't happen. I like the memory seat, the acceleration, and the easy folding of the 3rd row. But the Toyota Sienna feels so much nicer.
Before you commit yourself to 3 in the same row, you may want to take some measurements. Even in a widebody minivan like the Odyssey or Sienna, child seats are awfully big. Even if you could physically fit 3 seats together in the row, it's going to be cumbersome to access the seat in the middle. (either reaching over the side seat to put the baby in, or crawling into the front seat and reaching behind to place the baby in.)
Presumably you'd want the infant in the middle to take advantage of the pull-forward of the center seat in the Sienna...
... but then again, the 2 and 3yr old's seats may be so wide that they don't allow for the center seat to pull forward.
Just something to consider. Measure measure measure.
--> Andy
- The Sienna's overall look and feel inside is nicer, richer. Definitely near-Lexus. But it's not a big enough difference to us to affect our decision.
- Other things we liked about Sienna over Odyssey: passenger can open sliding doors and liftgate with push buttons overhead, quieter at speed, telescoping steering wheel, HID headlights.
My (Daddy) reasons for choosing the Honda...
- Steering MUCH heavier, with more road feel. Inspires more confidence.
- Engine noticeably more responsive. I consider this a safety feature, as sometimes it is just as important to be able to get out of the way quickly. Plenty of torque available without using much pedal travel.
- MPG, TPMS, other trip info just below gauges, instead of up near rear view mirror. Don't have to take my hands off the wheel to get trip info, either.
- Like the firmer ride. Definitely, this is a subjective thing, and I can see how many prefer the Sienna's plusher setting.
Mommy's reasons...
- Console options. In Sienna, you can have a console between the front seats or one between the second row, not both. In Odyssey, you can have both, one, or neither.
- Rear liftgate. Odyssey can be manual. Like the push button close at the back of Odyssey better than "just pull a little" on Sienna.
- Lazy Susan. Love that it can be accessed by both first and second row. Also like that it can be removed.
- PAX. I know some here are vehemently opposed to PAX. Our travel habits are such that we will hardly ever be more than 125 miles from a Honda dealer, and Honda dealers will replace the tire and wheel for free for the first two years we own the van. I believe by then there will be many more PAX facilities, and she loves the peace of mind of knowing she'll never be stranded on the side of the highway. PAX works for us.
Both are just outstanding. Head and shoulders above anything else out there. I know we could buy the Sienna and be happy, never look back. But the Honda is just a little better for us.
4. Don't understand why not.
5.
6. Sounds more like a saleperson probl.em than a Toyota vs honda issue. have run into the same problems over many years. Went into a Ford dealer once as a college person and when I asked about a certain car, they quoted MRSP. When I commented that they had a sign out front saying everything was on sale, he said, "Oh yeah, there's $25 off." !!! I walked out and bought at $50 over invoice from dealer in Dahlonega Georgia, George Elliott. Don't think he is in the business anymore.
Anyways, good luck and enjoy the Sienna. I am sure you will enjoy it.
Is this a toy to fight boredom or a real and usefull tool?
How did we cope before we had this available?
I probably just don't understand what all it can do.
Note that C & D perform their tests in a spirited, lively way like "car guys" do. Other agencies, like Consumers Report, perform their acceleration tests in a more leisurely "laid-back" fashion like our "Aunt Mildred" which results in much slower accel times for all vehicles in general.
Little does he know that that the Ody is faster!
Maybe he is interpreting larger accel times as being faster! In HIS world, the Viper with a 0-60 time of 3.9 secs is slower than a Sienna or Ody at 7+ secs.
If ferazine fits the description of our "Aunt Mildred" and it sounds that way, then he/she would find that Sienna handles to his/her liking.
Only car enthusiasts(and like all the testing agencies) would appreciate/acknmowledge the superior handling of the Ody over the competition.
Steve, Host
I have never used the 05 Ody NAV, but I have used the NAV on the 05 Acura TL. I only have one word for it, Awesome!
The extra console is standard. I've actually never opened it. It's here on my desk, still in the plastic bag it came in. We use the large one between the front seats. But it can be moved to the rear, and the smaller one used up front.
I've read here--and the brochure says--that some Limiteds have a folding tray instead of a center console, depending on the option package. But I've never been inside a Limited.
Only car enthusiasts(and like all the testing agencies) would appreciate/acknmowledge the superior handling of the Ody over the competition."
The "car guys buy Odysseys and Aunt Mildred types buy Siennas" comment is getting repetitive and tiresome. I'd be happy to compare my "car guy credentials" against yours. Here's about 9 of the roughly 5000 track miles my "other" Toyota has done in the last 5 years: http://tinyurl.com/54gj5
There just isn't that much difference between them and neither is particularly rewarding to drive. The Odyssey has a slightly firmer ride/handling tradeoff, but ultimately they're both big top-heavy boxes that hold a lot of stuff but don't handle anything like a good sports sedan or sports car. Anybody who thinks otherwise has more in common with Aunt Mildred than a car guy.
I have been a car nut for over over 30 years and have been in car rallies since the late sixties starting with the Mini-Coopers and Lotus Cortinas of those days, and migrating to the more technologically advanced vehicles of today.
Steve, Host
If you do place a great deal of value on it, that's fine, but that doesn't make people who don't "Aunt Mildreds." I bought a minivan to serve as a family hauler, which it does with a high degree of proficiency. Handling did enter into it to some degree in that I chose one over a SUV of similar interior space because I didn't want to pilot the Queen Mary on a daily basis, but the differences between the top minivans just aren't that big. If somebody made something with a similar degree of utility and great handling, I'd be all over it, but such a beast unfortunately doesn't exist.
Right here!
Mwahahahahahah.
Ok, just so the newbies don't get lost in the sea of subjectivity. The Honda guys will say their van feels sporty till they're blue in the face, while the Toyota guys say it doesn't make a difference. It's going to be a subjective opinion based on: a) Who you are, b) Your personal driving style, and c) Your frame of reference (i.e. was your last car a Le Car, or an IROC Z?)
For me, there is a perceived difference in the feel between the Odyssey and the Sienna. (gasp! What? no way!) Punching the accelerator in the Odyssey was met with a growl and good acceleration. No, nothing that'll make a BMW quiver with fear, but good enough for a 2-ton mammoth. The Sienna, when punched, rewarded me with a momentary "huh?" before continuing with smooth quiet delivery of power. Slightly less power, by seat-of-the-pants feel, but part of that may be perception due to the lack of noise and hubaloo. But it didn't feel like a slug.
Some people like the growl and relative tossability of the Odyssey. Others like the quiet refined power and buttercream ride of the Sienna. In the end it was of secondary importance to other factors in our purchasing decision. (i.e. price and availability) But having a 60's era small block Chevy as my first car, I like a little growl now and then.
--> Andy
yeah steve - one vote for bringing back the performance forum.
i'd have to agree with thumper that your preferences, specifically previous experience and hence expectations in drivability *may* strongly influence your decision - that is, unless you are wowed by features or price or some other factor.
my criteria did include drivability factors - and my preference was for a more sporty setup similar to vehicles i had owned and driven in the past. absolutely.
other people will prefer drivability factors that differ from mine. still others won't weigh drivability as important as did i. some will even say that a van is a van and they all drive pretty much the same...
if you don't notice the difference, or you don't really care, then that isn't a criteria which will strongly influence your purchasing decision.
isn't it great that not every manufacturer makes the same vehicle? isn't it great we aren't all of identical minds?
hence "the mine is better than yours" discussions based on these metrics are a bit wasteful of bandwidth in a general forum like this. just my opinion.
lol, I was joking, but why not; maybe there are some new hot rods out there since the last go round.
Steve, Host
1.) Those who view their vehicles as primarily for transportation with no/less emphasis on vehicle performance or driving enjoyment. i.e the more "Aunt Mildred" types.
2.) Those who place greater emphasis on vehicle performance and driving enjoyment during the actual process of getting transportation from the vehicle.
It is clear where our preferences lie above.
My Outback is mild red come to think of it (as was my old Tercel).
Steve, Host
my wife and i would have better control of the vehicle, MPG, and perhaps transmission longevity.
at the least, we'd be more engaged in the process of active driving... we don't, for example, drive and use a cell phone at the same time, and we don't go heads down, looking for DVDs to pacify the little ones.
one might argue, automatic transmissions in vehicles are "enabling" technology for those with poor driving technique.
Choosing a Sienna does not make you less of a car enthusiast than somebody who chooses a Odyssey. You're making a choice about a car that is inherently uninolving to drive, and for many of us a marginal improvement in the fun-to-drive department just isn't near the top of the list for items to consider when making a minivan purchase decision. All else equal, I'd rather have the firmer ride of the Odyssey, but there are several other things I like better on the Sienna that outweigh that.
Also, the logic behind your statement would mean that none of us are car guys since we've purchased minivans rather than something more enjoyable to drive. Most of us could make due with a big sports sedan as a family hauler. A good friend still does, and I did for several years before getting before getting tired of a lack of space and got a minivan to fix the problem.
Should be at least 800+hp to play the game in the race tracks!
Just ask any serious race car driver.
You are kidding...right?
In case you are really serious...it's because few if any buyers would want one!
better "control" over the vehicle with a stick?
Never understood that one.
You sure this wouldn't sell?
I think the idea of a smaller van that can still seat 7 (with manual shift as an option) is great, and we may see it in the future if, make that when, gas prices go up again. Anyone that can explain how automatic transmissions are more efficient than a manual? I know they are more efficient than earlier, but I would think a stick would have an efficiency advantage. Honda and Toyota 7 passenger vehicles here in Europe are much smaller than a Sienna or Odyssey, and come with the choice of manual or automatic. Gas is $5 a gallon, and buyers must pay an increasingly larger tax here as they increase engine displacement, so there are a number of small vehicles here with manual shift.
I'd definitely buy something smaller with a manual transmission, but not if I would have to pay a huge safety penalty. Any manufacturers working on something like this? (I'd settle for less than 500 hp, but the 5-point harnesses would still be nice to keep the kids under control)