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Comments
In addition to being useful for navigation purposes, it also serves as a monitor for the backup camera, and allows you to view and control DVDs from the front seat while the vechicle is stopped. You can also modify it to allow DVD viewing/control while in motion. (and no, viewing DVDs while driving isn't a good idea....)
1-When stopped I can start DVD movie again?
2-Are you describing Factory installed Nav/DVD from Toyota?
3-How much would it cost to add voice recognition?
4-How much does annual update cost?
5- Is backup camera accurate?
6-can kids watch DVD while I listen to music
7-While you are driving it tells you where to turn?
8-if u forget to turn does an alarm go off?
Thank you for your help. Dealers don't seem to know anything about system except "it's great"
You can start, view (on the DVD screen) and control a DVD via the remote/DVD player at any time, but you can't view it or control it from the Navigation screen while the vehicle is moving without modifications. It is much easier to control the DVD player via the navigation screen than via the remote from the front seat if your kids are too young to operate the remote themselves.
> 2-Are you describing Factory installed Nav/DVD from Toyota?
Yes.
>3-How much would it cost to add voice recognition?
The cost of the microphone is fairly nominal ($60?). You just have to plug the microphone into the NAV unit, and modify one of the steering wheel buttons to activate it. The voice recognition capability is already built into the NAV unit, but wasn't used from the factory on the Sienna.
> 4-How much does annual update cost?
I don't know. I've never updated it, but I think it is in the $2-300 range.
> 5- Is backup camera accurate?
Yes. I was amazed at how useful it is. I wouldn't feel safe having a minivan/SUV without one without it now There's just too much you can't see via mirrors and the rear window.
> 6-can kids watch DVD while I listen to music
Yes. We do it all the time. They wear headphones, and you can listen via the speakers.
> 7-While you are driving it tells you where to turn?
Yes. It tells you verbally as well as draws a detailed map of the upcoming turn/intersection.
> 8-if u forget to turn does an alarm go off?
There isn't a "you missed the turn stupid" message, but it recomputes the route and tells you what to do in order to get back on track (usually a u-turn).
So, my question is -- how important for safety are the following items (standard in the Ody but only as pricey packages in the Sienna)? and what do they really mean?:
Vehicle Stability Control
Traction Control
Rear disc brakes
We live in FL (no ice or snow), and will only drive into colder climes once every couple of years.
Thanks much for any input!
The three items you mentioned are, I believe, bundled into various option packages but really don't drive the price up all that much.
I have never understood why Toyota is sooooo slow to make critical safety equipment standard. Years ago I passed on a Camry because it was impossible to find one with ABS.
Imagine this scenario: You drive to the mall with your twins in the back seat (you are the only adult in the car). You park, unlock the doors and proceed to get out of the car to unload the first child. While doing this the second child lets themself out by touching the power sliding door button on the opposite side. This is a safety issue.
With the child safety locks functioning the way federal regulators intended them to work you would be able to park the car and get out, open one power sliding door to get the first child out, close the door and then go to the other side to get the second child out without ever having to worry about either child being able to open either door prior to you getting there to safely let them out.
I'd agree. I can control my own vehicle well enough without assistance, but can't control somebody running a stoplight and t-boning me.
That would be a great safety feature for any car when more than 1 child is in the back seat. Unfortunately, I don't believe any make or model has such a feature.
We've not yet encountered that problem because one of our two children is still in a car seat and can't get out on his own. But, when both our children can unbuckle themselves, I can see where that would be a safety issue.
I love the Sienna and I'm a big Toyota fan. However, in this case Honda definately has their priorities correct and Toyota not. I think it's great that Honda included all the safety features standard. They could have offered them as options and come in at a lower bottom line. But they did the responsible thing. Toyota did not.
Child safety locks are the manual locks typically found on the inside rim of the rear doors only (not to be confused with the lock on the interior side of the door). When engaged, no one from the inside of the car can open those doors. They must be opened by someone from the outside. These child safety locks exist on the inside rim of the Siennas too, it's just that the power door button still opens the door even when the child safety locks are engaged.
Or, I can spin it this way: Toyota gives their customers a choice, and Honda does not. Though I can't imagine why, I'm sure there are some consumers out there who don't want--or don't want to pay for--these various safety features. Some people don't want to wear a helmet when they ride a motorcycle, either.....
On a different note, the motorcycle helmet issue is one that has always intrigued me. I live in one of only 3 states (Ohio) that does not require motorcycle drivers to wear helmets. I believe the other two are Connecticut and Alaska. Anyway, my state has a seat belt law. Seems like a contradiction to me that people that drive a car must wear a seat belt, but that it's okay for someone on a motorcycle not to wear a helmet.
I shouldn't have used the word 'charitable,' as you focused too much on it.
You have absolutely no proof that Toyota 'adds to its bottom line' by not offering these items as standard equipment on every van they make. If you do, please share it.
If Honda cares so much, why don't they give away all of their profit to such 'greater good' causes? Their mission--just like any company's--is to be as profitable as possible.
btw, Idaho, where I live, doesn't require a motorcycle helmet unless you are under 18 but, unlike Alaska, the state can't really afford to to pay for lifetime care for comatose accident victims.
Steve, Host
I don't need proof. It's fairly well known that the cost to add air bags is minimal, especially when the company buys it from their supplier in large volume and installs it in every car. I have no doubt that Toyota is profiting on the safety features that they bundle into expensive option packages.
Honda doesn't "give away all their profit to such 'greater good' causes" because their primary responsibility is to return a profit to their shareholders. However, returning a profit to shareholders and being a good corporate citizen are no longer mutually exclusive. It's no longer a fringe concept undertaken by a few companies. Honda does it and they provide a handsome return to their shareholders. Toyota could do the same.
I would--and do--pay extra for VSC, ABS, and side-curtain airbags. But any crash that is survivable without them, still probably would be fatal without a basic seatbelt. To that end, these newer safety features are incremental improvements and are offered by most manufacturers as optional equipment.
If Honda cares so much about their customers' safety, they'd equip each vehicle with a helmet for the driver, and governors that limit maxiumum speed to 35 mph.
I assume Toyota does not install some of these safety features because some customers don't want them. If no one buys them, Toyota will stop offering them.
MSRP for a '05 Odyssey EX (safety features standard) is $28,510.
Where's the corporate irresponsibility? My guess is that current street prices would make the Toyota cheaper still.
The fact that Toyota offers base LE and CE models without these safety options--at even lower prices--hardly makes them a 'bad corporate citizen.'
In 2004, Toyota, as a company, did have about a 2% higher margin compared to Honda.
Stripper LX an CE's are a small percentage of over-all sales. That being said, MSRP for a Sienna CE is $23,990, while MSRP for an Ody LX is $25,510. Toyota's base van offers less, and costs $1,520 less. Honda's base van offers more and costs more. Still no 'corporate irresponsibility' here.
In any case, it's pretty clear that we are on opposite sides of the fence when it comes to the whole issue of corporate responsibility. And since this is not a message board meant to compare political views, I'll leave it at that.
I'm obviously not going to be able to present any argument you will find compelling, as you 'know' you are right. Toyota is evil. Honda is 'Ben & Jerry.' (I won't even get into the health problems caused by the product made by THOSE paragons of corporate responsibility).
It's interesting that you mention Ben and Jerry. You're in a time warp. They sold the company years back and cashed out. Today main stream companies with names like IBM, 3M, and Honda practice corporate responsibility. We don't need to go back many years to two guys with long hair and a liberal persuasion as an example of corporate responsibility. Rather outdated.
You can compare up to 8 models of cars here pretty easily with the Vehicle Comparison Tool.
Steve, Host
We'll just have to agree to disagree on Toyota's corporate 'irresponsibility.'
Enjoy the weekend comparing vans everyone!
Steve, Host
My beef with Toyota is that they can be irresponsible in a different way than discussed above in not meeting the expectations of their customers. And they're still at it in offering confusing option packages that are production limited by area.
I purchased the '05 Ody EXL NAV RES. It is a nice vehicle. It has a higher resale than the Sienna and, overall, seems to be a better value.
Gulf-states region is especially tough, IMO, with an entirely different buffet of options and bundling thereof, as compared to most other regions. Higher fees, too.
I used to own a 03 RAV4, and reliability wise it was ok, I traded it in for a Mazda Rx-8 coz of safey issues. However befor getting the RX8 I decided to check out the 05 RAVS one last time. Although their was much hype about the RAVs getting five stars in front and sidecrash test, it did so only with the sideairbgas equiiped RAV.I had practically checked every Toyota dealer in MD, but found none sitting on the lot with sideairbags. The people who get them are either lucky, Toyota salesman or plain liars.(or both)
It is amazing though how Toyota, can scam people but smell sweet to car testing bodies. Toyota with its billion dollar pockets provide crash test agencies with their souped up well armored sidecurtained RAVs, rigging results. The poor consumers who worship Toyotas run to their nearest Toyota delearship coz of the good publicity, only to be told that theirs no RAV or Toyota currently in stock with the safety options that make vehicles safe. Then with glib toungues and high pressure selling tactics the poor consumer ends up with a less safe vehicles than what they really wanted.
To all people cross shopping the Toyota RAV 4 with other small SUV's, please check with your Toyota dealer if those sideairbag equipped RAV is available. If they say it is available but as soon as you come to the delearship it aint, JUST PLEASE WALKOUT ASAP.The longer you stay, the bigger the chances of you buying one without the sideairbags.
To legit forum non Toyota salesman members who got their RAVs with sideairbags, congratulations. You were lucky in the lottery of life. Toyota toyed with your life and a thousand others, your lucky stars picked you to be in a safer car, while me and many others will have to ride in less safe maybe even dangerous vehicles.
Why is Toyota who rakes the most profits among the Japanese brands treating consumers this way.Simple, because we buy their products no questions asked.However if you, me, and a couple of our friends join hand in hand not to buy Toyota products, maybe Toyota would stop scamming us, make safety features standard across all trims, and treat us as humans not as a dollar sign. Even if most people in this forum think I'm delusional, I still believe that together we can make mighty Toyota listen, coz apart from each other, Toyota and it's car forum troubleshooters will just regard as us laughingstock bunch of crybabies piece of whinning scum.
Forum members, Toyota cars are great, but their safety features are only available if you have the dough.This is discrimination of the 21st century.This segragation of the have and have nots ought to stop and in each of our hands lies that capability to stop this subculture of prejuidice. One can get started by getting their cars from other equally reliable manufacturers, other than Toyota.
P.S.
As soon as Toyota makes safety a right not a priveledge, I will be first in line to buy and even zealously campaign for their very reliable cars and trucks.
Based on your experience, I will go test it again. Sounds like Toyota made some changes since I tested their 2004 model. Thanks for the update, I appreciate it.
We were leaning toward the Sienna due to our previous experiences with Toyota reliability (admittedly, though, we've had no experiences with Honda), and we thought we wanted an 8-seater -- great for when we have visitors, or for when each of the kids wants to take a friend along on an outing....
But after looking at the cars yesterday, and trying out all of the seats, we definitely aren't getting the Sienna 8-seater! I haven't seen this mentioned here, but there is a big difference in the configurations of the 8-seaters in the Sienna vs. the Ody.
Let me first say: three seats in the middle row is a bit tight in both vans. Once they've reached a certain size, 3 kids are going to feel too close when they're all in that middle row. On long trips, they'd probably drive each other nuts (our kids are great and get along well, but I know it'd be a problem when we drive from FL to WA and back this summer).
So, that means two kids in the middle and one in the back, in which case we don't want the third seat installed in the middle row -- so the kid in back can get out of the van without waiting for someone in the middle to get out first.
So, let me compare the 7-seaters in both vans first:
Middle row is fine in both -- really pretty comparable. Back row outer seats (right behind the middle seats): definitely feels like there is less leg room in the Sienna than in the Ody. In both vans, if you sit in the center of the back row, you can stretch your legs out between the two middle-row seats; however, that leg space feels narrower in the Sienna.
Now, let's say we want to buy an 8-seater, for those occasional times when we want the extra seat.
The 8-seat Sienna: the outer middle row seats become narrower and lose their inner arm rests in order to fit a reasonably-sized center seat between them. If you must have three kids in the middle, it's not bad.
However, when the center seat's removed from the middle (which we'd usually want - see above), the outer seats - with no inner arm rests - feel really narrow. For our eldest (a 5'6" 14yo girl of avg weight), they aren't very comfortable
The 8-seat Ody: the outer middle row seats are the same as in the 7-seater, with an almost comically narrow seat stuck in between them. It really isn't comfortable to have three sitting in that row, but it is doable.
So, if you buy the Sienna 8-seater, you sacrifice comfort in the middle row outer seats; if you buy the Odyssey 8-seater, the middle row outer seats are no different than in the 7-seater.
My opinion, if you're getting an 8-seater: if you're always going to have three people in the middle row, the Sienna is far more comfortable; but if it'll usually be two in the middle, get the Ody.
And for those of you with young kids, if you're planning to keep the van for many years, remember: the kids grow quickly - how big will they be in 5-6 years? Try each seat yourself to see how comfortable it is.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Companies like Honda on the other hand, offers various trim levels. A Honda EX with Leather in one dealership would have EXACTLY the same configuration and sticker price, at that dealership or any dealership in that city or any dealership anywhere else in the country. No confusing messes to wade through while making a decision. You do your research and ultimately if you decide on an LX or EX or whatever, all you do is walk into a dealership - anywhere in the country - and you will have the exact same configuration. All you need to do is to decide on a color and negotiate the price down to a level you are comfortable with.
I don't own a Honda or Toyota product now but the only thing that prevents me from even considering a Toyota product is the need to wade through mazes of "option packages" before even beginning the negotiation process. Too much trouble and waste of time.
Just my 2c.
Simple is good, but in some ways it'd be nice to be able to build a car the way you want it and have it delivered to your door the following week.
I've never been able to keep up with the various flavors of the DC vans and I had a Voyager for 10 years. The salespeople rarely know exactly what's on the lot either.
Steve, Host
I realize that the EPA numbers are quite close and should be fairly valid at least for comparing the two vehicles, but it sems to me that the bigger engine and additional weight of the Ody -has- to have some affect here. In the Odys favor, it could be that, as a newer vehicle, many are not sufficiently broken in yet, although most of the Siennas are not that old either. Driver differences obviously are a factor also, although I see no reason to think Ody drivers are any more lead footed than Sienna drivers. Then there also is the issue of premium v. regular gas, which may favor the Ody if one goes with premium in the Sienna.
Comments?
I have a 2004 sienna and I'd like to know if anyone has seen a problem similar to this. While driving approx 40mph on a straight and dry road the trac and vsc light went on. this was immediately followed by a rapid beeper going off in the dash. What followed next was dangerous - the steering wheel pulled sharply to the left( i believe the front left brake was being applied) the accelerator was disabled.(no physical damage to people or property) After the car slowed to 5mph the lights and beeping and braking all stopped - when you speed up to 5mph it all happens again. - sounds like fun? The car was nice enough to repeat this event to the toyota service manager. They found a toyota tsb telling of a 'steering angle sensor' problem that when occurs continually activates the vsc.
The car thinks its skidding through a sharp turn and is correcting - when its actually going straight. This tsb only affects 'early model year' siennas and sequoias -- These cars share some of the same vsc parts. They claim the steering sensor has been re engineered to return an error code that would disable the system when the part malfunctions rather than the incorrect steering angle. - There were no fault codes gathered in the onboard computer. The service manager also mentioned (unofficially) that the only way he knew of to the disable the vsc (not traction control) was to pull and short the wires going to the brake fluid sensor - the vsc turns itself off when you are low on brake fluid. The car is still at the dealer Id like to have any feedback before I have to pick it up tomorrow. thanks
There are others on the web with this extremely dangerous defect. Clearly this ought to cause a recall, but, Toyota, you may note, is not even running a service campaign to address this. They have a TSB out on it (bulletin 00804) Assmuning you survive having your car suddenly brake various wheels indiscrimanetly at high speed and live to complain about it, your dealer might, at their discretion, replace the defective sensors. Oh! what a feeling!
Of course, if the safety features don't work as they are supposed to, then everyone has the right to complain. My point is if you don't like a particular product, or can't afford a particular prodcut, buy something else. It's not your "right" just because you want it
There isn't more of a break-in period. The improvements you're reporting are purely a figment of your imagination; you're simply getting used to the way your new vehicle is responding and handling. The vehicle's characteristics are NOT changing.
As far as MPG. We now have 2,000 miles on our Touring and we're getting 14 mpg in suburban driving.