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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • 05ody05ody Member Posts: 103
    Oh...so far no electrical problems with any of my Honda's. I know how you feel, and I wasnt too sure if I should buy a brand new vehicle first year and thats why I also checked out the Sienna. But with my good history with Honda I went for it and so far everything is just perfect about the van. The new Honda Odyssey's Engine is now rated at 255hp, 250tq...up from 240hp, and 242tq on the 04 models. If you upgrade to the Ex-Leather you get the I-Vtec (Instead of just the Vtec) with VCM, but the Honda dealer said himself it really doesnt make a big difference unless you are a big traveler, which I am not :)
  • jlawkwujlawkwu Member Posts: 1
    Hi, I'm trying to decide on a 2005 Sienna or wait for 2006 Sienna and have some questions. I am very interested by the sound of, "The Sienna is supposed to get memory seats and mirrors, and power folding third row seats, among some other more subtle changes"

    1. I've been searching for any information on what new features the 2006 Sienna may have and in particular really want memory seats. Can someone suggest any places/sources/sites that might offer insight to 2006 features?

    2. Does anyone know when the 2006 Sienna models are scheduled to be available?

    3. What does this mean, "an apparently optional-option"? It sounds like not all options are available throughout the U.S. (?)

    Thanks
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    This might change for 2006, but Toyota does this weird thing with their optional packages. You will notice there are about 10 or more packages for both the LE models, the XLE and then you have the AWD versions too. Some packages are available in certain regions of the country, others are not (or are not readily available). It can drive dealers nuts, because a customer comes in wants the package #5, but all a dealer can get is a #6 or whatever. There are so many varieties of the Sienna, it is amazing - and I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Better to have options that not most of the time. It reminds me of trying to buy a full size pickup, and looking at a Chevy or Ford, and all of the different configurations that are possible. Something for everyone usually.

    As for 2006 models, if you aren't in a rush, it might make sense to wait for a 2006. If you want to save money, buying a 2005 at then end of the year could pay off for you - (actually buying at the end of any month helps save sometimes). Not sure where the power seats/3rd row power option started, somewhere on this board, I think from a Bulletin from Toyota. Your dealer might be able to confirm this, although probably a little too early to tell. I would imagine though, that the power 3rd row option, which would be a first on a minivan, won't be cheap, and will probably be available only on the XLE or XLE Unlimited, but I am just speculating here. A very cool option nonetheless.
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    Toyota provides a host of options on their vehicles, unlike Honda which is pretty sparse on such choices. However, depending on what part of the country you are in, you may well find that particular "options" you might want to choose are never available to you. In other words, the distributor responsible for your area may never ever order that particular option.

    While it might be theoretically possible to order a Sienna built as you like it from the factory, I have never once heard of anyone successfully doing so. I think that practically that is not a possibility.

    As for whether or not memory seats will be widely available (or available at all), I cannot say. But if/when they are listed as an option on the Toyota web site, you can then try to build a car with that option and check inventory to see if it is available in your area. My best guess is that the memory seats would only practically be found on the highest (and most expensive) trim level, if at all. Good luck! I hope you can get what you want.
  • dhfddhfd Member Posts: 22
    What is the oil life reminder? What type of oil do you use?
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    well, lucky you

    I checked the edmunds' invoice price for a barebone xle in my area, it is still higher than my ex cloth, and that is without the side bags for everyone, traction and vsc. Before i bought the ody I shopped the ex cloth and the sienna le pkg 6, both were at the same price but the ex has the driver pwr slider and 6 disc changer. With two young kids, dual pwr slider was the deal maker.
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    I do feel lucky ;) I have 2 young kids too, and another one due very soon. So I liked the XLE because of the dual power doors and the power liftgate. The LE doesn't have that you're right, and the EX cloth does. I forgot whether it has the power liftgate? I think it does, my memory of all the options each van has is starting to slip now that I have made my purchase. I was on the fence about the lack of some of the safety things on the base XLE. Side air bags have pros and cons, and since my kids sometimes fall asleep by the sides of the vans, I figured not having side air bags could be a good thing (the Toyota manual even mentions this). Traction control to me is a pain sometimes. I had it in my previous GM Saturn, and it actually hinders more than it helps in snow. Where we live, and with our driveway, I sometimes need the tires to spin to keep going in a forward motion. With the TC on, it would prevent the wheels from spinning true, but sometimes to the point of getting stuck altogether. Also, we live in a small college town, and at this point we don' take many trips. My speed limit to work ranges from a low of 10 mph (one lane bridges!) to a high of 45. So actual accidents that are severe here are very low. And any minivan, with or without airbags are pretty safe now, from what I've seen.

    But in terms of price, what tipped the scales in favor of the XLE was the great lease deal I got. I may keep this van after the lease, we'll see. But I needed a decent van that would have fairly low payments. The Ody EX cloth was $440, and the XLE was $359. Different buying experiences for sure, and I think I got a great deal at Fitzmall, something I couldn't get locally. I was looking locally at a base SIenna LE AM package (#1) and they wanted about $380 for that lease. Honda should sell the LX model with 1 power door. I bet they would sell a lot. Seems like they are selling a lot anyway. For some strange reason though, the leasing program on the Odyssey's wasn't very competitive. One dealer who I trusted told me that, that financing they were good, but lease to lease, they could not compete with Toyota, and I found that to be true too, for now at least. It seems to vary every month.
  • 96corolla96corolla Member Posts: 94
    Hi,

    Does anyone have any experience installing and using child safety seats in the Sienna and/or Ody. I'm looking at the Ody and 8 passenger Sienna. In the "driving with kids" section, Consumer Reports stated that installing a child seat in the middle of the 2nd row seat is a problem with the Ody. Because of that I was considering not even looking at them. However, I recently read over in the Sienna prices forum that somebody was having a problem with child seats in the Sienna. Just looking for some insight. Thanks.
  • liujnliujn Member Posts: 27
    I currently own 2 other Toyotas. They are pretty good in quality but none are trouble free in the first year. I decided to go with Honda Odyssey after test-drove my friend's new Sienna LE-7 AWD. I hated the handling and cheap interior compare to my other Toyotas Few month later, this friend told me his AC was broken. The dealer told him the AC never worked so it was DOA. Could not believe my friend didn't check AC when he picked van. Like many others, he thought Toyota was always perfect.

    This is my first Honda and I feel I made the right choice. For the equivalent equipage, Toyota is more expensive. In addition, I couldn't believe why Toyota still sells 6" DVD while Honda sells 9" DVD. Honda's navigation is super-cool too. As far as the initial quality, I have yet found any defects. Yes, zero defect! Given the complexity of the car, I have to give Honda a lot of credits, especially the Ody was made in USA and my Toyotas were both made in Japan.

    Agree with other Ody owners, my Ody doesn't have the hot-air problem. When AC is off, I get the fresh air with the same out-door temperature. Up to now, that was the only person reported such problem assume he is a real ody owner.
  • daedae Member Posts: 143
    The Ody EX cloth was $440, and the XLE was $359.

    That's quite odd. Cheapest XLE with no options has 27,100 invoice, and you can get EX cloth for about 26,000 ( I just paid 26,500, but I am a sucker for not shopping around too long.). And you want many options on XLE, as its default safety sucks - does not include Vehicle Stability Control for example. So add $4k for package 6.

    Unless you are doing something extremely unwise with financing (and who shops by "monthly payments"? Invitation for a rip-off.) lower principal should result in lower payments.
  • daedae Member Posts: 143
    Consumer Reports stated that installing a child seat in the middle of the 2nd row seat is a problem with the Ody.

    I would think it depends on the seat. Large Brittax in reverse position was a pain indeed, I moved it to the captain chair. I want to replace the 8th seat with a console anyway - you can fit one from Touring.

    Booster should fit fine, but I do not you can easily fit 3 of then on the second row in Ody. I would not try that.

    On the other side, the other two chairs in the 2nd row on Ody (I am talking EX cloth) are much more comfortable then ones in 8 seater Sienna. So for two child seats in the 2nd row I would pick Odyssey (and I did). Removing the center and moving one inside also.

    Leather was not an option - I hate leather seating in cars...
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    the ody front and second row seats are much more comfortable than sienna. but sienna's third seat has a bit more room than ody. I do think the material on the LE feels a lot cheaper than a comparable EX. But hard plastic is hard plastic, I remember my 92 tercel had padded vinyl on the whole upper section of the doors :(
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    nwng: I remember my 92 tercel had padded vinyl on the whole upper section of the doors

    My '88 Corolla hatchback also had a lot of padding-backed interior vinyl. While it was an exceptional car mechanically (incredible power out of that little, rock-solid 4 cylinder!), the interior had shredded to tatters by 1995 without any heavy wear (I was single and rarely carried either passengers or cargo). True it was in Hawaii that whole time and lived much of its life outside, but other cars in the same conditions did not seem to deteriorate so far, so suddenly, after so short a life. So, maybe they learned something and actually did improve things? (Probably while saving money at the same time!) :confuse: :);)
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Welcome to the Honda family.

    Since buying my Ody almost a year ago, it has never seen the dealer again for any warranty repairs or PM (since I do this myself).

    Hassle free ownership! Priceless!
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    sunlight and heat does a number on vinyl. I bet if your car had tonka plastic and cloth, it would have hold up much better.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    http://money.cnn.com/2005/05/23/Autos/funonwheels/road_trip_cars/index.htm
  • 05ody05ody Member Posts: 103
    About the side curtain airbags on the 2005 Ody...I was worried about the same problem until I read the owners manual. They actually have sensors that shut off the curtain airbags if it detects any interferance between the the window and where the airbag would deploy. The new Odysseys have a botton also where you can turn off the traction control and VSA if you dont want to use it or if its not needed. If it did not have these features I would of probablly not have bought this van seing how I really liked the Sienna also. I like the handling and safety features better on the Ody though but hey my aunt has a Sienna so at least I still get to drive one :D
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    Thank you. As we prepare for this year's family driving vacation, I feel even better about my second-only-to-Corvette-on-the-list :shades: Yukon XL (a dressed-up Suburban). Thanks! :)
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Enjoy!

    The Ody is a great road vehicle with its fine "sporty" handling.
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    "Cheapest XLE with no options has 27,100 invoice" No, the invoice price of a XLE is $26,574, Ijust checked Edmunds pricing here. I bought the XLE at Fitzmall in Maryland, and they do sell at or below invoice quite often.

    "So add $4k for package 6" Again, you are wrong. Package #3 has all of the safety things you find essential for $1,388 (again, invoice price)

    One thing, I leased this van, and for me, my monthly payments were important factors, although I am quite aware of the ripoff that is possible. I didn't advertise to dealers what I needed to pay. I am not new to this game, and did a lot of research into this. Also, I went to Toyota.com as well as Honda.com and used the prices I knew I could get each van for, and used their websites accordingly. When I factored tax in, the Sienna came out almost exactly to what the dealer said it would, $359. The Odyssey was also pretty similar, over $400. Two dealers I worked with for Honda (one I liked a lot) said they just couldn't get good rates on the leases for the Odyssey yet (probably selling too well to justify it). The lease factors for Siennas are very good.

    In the end, the Sienna simply leased for quite a bit less than a Ody EX cloth, and yes the prices were pretty simiar. But Honda doesn't do leasing in NYS the same way as Toyota does - you have to pay the whole amount in taxes up front, whereas with Toyota, just pay tax on the monthly payments you are leasing.

    If I could have leased the Ody EX for close to the Sienna XLE, I would have - I certainly think it is a great van, and the one to beat at the moment.

    I don't like traction control - had it on my last vehicle and it hinders too much in snow going up the driveway, I would rather have a little spin, and not get bogged down. This winter, I am getting snow tires anyway - probably the best safety feature one can have, that doesn't come standard on any car. If I lived in a big city or drove a lot of miles, I might find these safety features must haves, but in my case, I just didn't. The Sienna still rated a 5 star crash testing, and that's pretty good. (I think all minivans can claim a 5 star crash test rating now).
  • daedae Member Posts: 143
    When I factored tax in, the Sienna came out almost exactly to what the dealer said it would, $359. The Odyssey was also pretty similar, over $400. Two dealers I worked with for Honda (one I liked a lot) said they just couldn't get good rates on the leases for the Odyssey yet (probably selling too well to justify it).

    Get 3rd party financing. Credit union, many online outfits etc.

    No, the invoice price of a XLE is $26,574

    I have counted the destination fee as well. In any case, XLE is no less expensive in the stripped form, and is a real stripper. You are right that at least #3 include rear disk brake and stability control. Do not underestimate stability control.

    I would reiterate - if you got higher payments on a cheaper vehicle you did not explore all your options for financing properly. That means - you have lost money.
  • championwchampionw Member Posts: 7
    I have a 3-months old odyssey 2005 EX-L. Recently I found it will generate some
    high-pitch "noise" when it is in speed 30-40 miles at quiet local street. if on highway
    the road noise will overpower the high-pitch one. The "noise" is very gentle and
    weak and you must pay great attention to find it. But once I recognize it I always
    can sense it. The dealer mechanic said the "noise" is from speaker, and may generate
    from anti-noise system. He said he will check the other new Odyssey if it can duplicate
    the "noise". The "noise" pattern will change, sometimes even like classic music!
    Any 2005 odyssey owners have similar experience?
  • tdmtdm Member Posts: 1
    Quoted $39,000 for Sienna XLE Limited AWD with #2 option pkg. from Orlando, FL area dealer.

    Izzat a good price, or no?

    Sales mgr. SEZ it's $400 over invoice...but Edmunds sez that's $2000 over invoice???
  • crazymomcrazymom Member Posts: 3
    Okay, I have now test driven both Sienna and Odyssey. Both are amazing vehicles. They seem to offer the top of the line missing just an auto pilot or a baby sitte :P r!! The pricing on each is a bit up there, but again, both comparable. Each sales person says their auto is the best...I need some serious help...this is a real investment...which is the better buy/return :confuse: ??? I currently drive a 2001 Expedition and I need the room, but prefer better gas milage..and more practicality. Any input would be very appreciated.
  • ggsggs Member Posts: 30
    Sorry, if reading this thread hasn't convinced you one way or the other, you'll have to come down to what features you really want and what price you are able to get for each in your area. Both are fantastic vans--I doubt you could go wrong either way.

    That said, Honda pricing is a little more straight and narrow than Toyota as Toyota has a tiered option structure that varies from region to region. Also, the Ody does not have AWD, which for some people is a big deal. The Ody uses the i-VTEC engine which may result in better gas mileage depending on your driving habits and normal travel conditions.
  • crazymomcrazymom Member Posts: 3
    I think my mind was really made up since I test drove the Sienna two months ago and still have not bought it...you are right...to get the total options package in the Sienna would end up costing me a whole bunch of extra $$ because they do hide little things that add up. The Touring edition of the Ody seemed to be everything for that particular price... Does the color package cost anything additional??? It seemed to be a big deal to the salesman.

    Hey, thanx for the info...it was a big help. :shades:
  • 96corolla96corolla Member Posts: 94
    So which one are you buying?

    Not sure how many kids you have, but I've heard and read that getting 3 kids seats in the second row of the Ody is not practical/possible. It is OK in the 8 pass Sienna. If you only have 2 kids, then you're set either way. Good Luck.
  • ggsggs Member Posts: 30
    For color choices, there is an adjustment--I would run the numbers through Edmunds to get an idea of what it is for your area--but it's really comparatively minor, cost-wise. I'm guessing your choice of color was big deal to the salesperson in consideration of inventory and availability more than anything else.
  • crazymomcrazymom Member Posts: 3
    I have 4, but only 2 in car seats. I did read that too. Pretty interesting information. Thanks for the info!! I look forward to my new purchase!!
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    I'm guessing your choice of color was big deal to the salesperson in consideration of inventory and availability more than anything else.

    I would agree and add that color is a big deal to the salesman because to get you to commit to a color is another "Yes" on the way to the complete close of the sale.

    But, even more importantly, color is an emotional choice reasonably far from the rational considerations of price, features, safety, warranty, etc. that are harder to hook you on. Selecting a color is a big step to taking emotional ownership of the choice and commits you at a gut level to the particular vehicle. Like satisfying a certain payment amount you need, it leaves little room for someone to back up and "think about it" once the salesman can answer that need ("I don't know if we have any red ones left.... That is a very hot color right now. No, wait! I do have one that I think I can get for you today, if we can move fast!").

    You picked a color, which means you have already pictured yourself looking good in it, and it is virtually already yours! :)

    Another reason to decide as much as you can far away from the dealership....
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Until I got into this business I had NO IDEA just how important COLOR is to some people1 I wouldn't have believed it. For my wife and I, the color of the car has always been pretty far down the list of criteria.

    But if a dealer has six silver Odysseys on the lot and he has to do a dealer swap for the red one the customer just HAS to have, guess where the better deal will probably be?
  • ixdavidixdavid Member Posts: 1
    Cars Direct has it for $39,356
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    But if a dealer has six silver Odysseys on the lot and he has to do a dealer swap for the red one the customer just HAS to have, guess where the better deal will probably be?

    Yes, my wife and I would be some of those saying, "I know it's a better deal maybe, but we just can't stand that silver!" Color is important to us, sure. But we would already have figured out what we wanted and how much we were willing to pay "out the door." Plus we are more than willing to say, "Sorry we can't do that." and head for the door as necessary.

    We also respect the fact that the dealer also may not be able to live with the deal that we can live with and do not begrudge them that either. My point is that it is a matter of figuring out -- as precisely as possible -- exactly what you want and what you are willing to pay for it before walking into a dealership. These forums and online shopping aids finally make that possible.

    But, though it is certainly difficult with something as emotionally-charged as an automobile purchase, you will do better if you are truly willing to walk away. Just MHO and it has worked pretty well for me. Well, that and the fact that I sick my bargaining-is-a-way-of-life Asian wife on them at the final moments. She really is extremely tough! ;)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm in Seattle...remember? :) I know what you are talking about!

    Yeah, a dealer will either accept your offer or not. If a dealer lets you walk it's because you didn't offer enough. Make that same offer a month later when the inventory levels are better and it may work. Doesn't have to be difficult.

    As far as color, well...I don't think anyone should buy a color they can't stand just to save a few dollars. On the other hand I guess I can't understand how some people can be so picky they wouldn't at least have a couple of alternatives that they would like almost as much..

    But, that's me. We are all different.
  • allison5allison5 Member Posts: 130
    Ok now I am even more confused. I went on a field trip with my son today and I was one of the drivers (this field trip was 1 1/2 hr away each way). I drove my big GMC Yukon but several parents had minivans. One parent had the 05 Sienna who also has back problems and said it was so fantastic she wouldn't of gone any other way. The Odyessy was no so great for many reasons but also saying there was not much knee room if you are tall because the glove compartment and that whole area is so low. I have to admit I found that to be true in my old Odyessy. Anyway I guess point is everyone thinks of the vans differently and I think I just need to make a decision on what car to get and live with it. I drove the Sequoia yesterday quite a while, it was very nice but just another BIG SUV and so dang expensive. SO now probably the Odyessy, possibly Sienna of Pilot.
  • vrmvrm Member Posts: 310
    Sienna offers a Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) in LE and higher trim levels. Honda considers this to be a "luxury" feature and only offers it in the ultra expensive Touring model.

    Last month NHTSA ordered Auto makers to begin phasing in TPMS this September. By 2008 model year all new vehicles (10,000 pounds or less) are required to have individual tire pressure monitoring sensors.

    Can somebody inform Honda that TPMS is NOT a luxury feature but a SAFETY issue. Honda is plastering ads touting safety all over the place. Yet, Honda balks at including a TPMS in every trim level the cost of which is $70 (NHTSA estimate).

    Honda: Put up or shut up. :mad:
  • hw4hw4 Member Posts: 9
    I bot a XLE limited AWD with HO package (NAV and RES) for $29000 plus a trade-in at $9000, so it was 38000 for the XLE Limited AWD with HO. (the trade-in is a 00 camry LE with 42K miles).

    I figured that the dealer can make 3K when they sell the camry, and as for the new Sienna, I paid 1750 over invoice of $36250 ($37000-$750 rebate).

    I think this deal is ok for me since no other dealer had offered me more than $8000 for my trade-in.
  • hw4hw4 Member Posts: 9
    Looked at Honda also, inclined to buy the Oddy first, but the interor of the Oddy for the 05 model year is so cheap, the plastic is cheap and the leather is course even on the EXL touring R&N which really turned me off, so I went for the Sienna xle limited which has nicer leather and the plastic materials look finer.

    Do not understand why Honda would do that , they give the Pilot a much nicer interior than the Oddy, I am talikng about the top of the line trims.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    Hmmm....it seems to me that Honda is "putting up" given that the Odyssey is, I believe, the only vehicle on the market with a true TPMS that advised of actual tire pressure.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    I agree that the Sienna, at least in Limited trim, has a nicer interior than the Odyssey but bought the latter due to the Toyota's seat cushions being too short.
    Am pleasantly surprised at how good the Odyssey's leather seems to be wearing.

    While the Pilot interior may, at a glance, appear nicer than that of the Odyssey, it lacks certain Odyssey features such as lighted steering wheel controls and more extensive seat back storage).
  • lastwraithlastwraith Member Posts: 350
    Another thing....this is not a safety issue that is on the same level as airbag inclusion or something like that. You can get out of your car and check the tire pressure....or even buy caps that will warn you if a tire is too low. You cannot run outside and put in some side airbags or curtain airbags while you are gassing up the family cruiser.
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    Geez, look it up, $26,574 is the invoice price and that includes the destination fee. Here take a look: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/toyota/sienna/100458140/optionsresults.html?action=2&tid=e- - dmunds.n.options.ntmv.1.1.Toyota* And this is almost exactly what I paid. Third party financing could not touch what Toyota was offering, I checked. I belong to a good credit union, and have financed my other vehicle through Capital One which was a good deal at the time.

    The XLE is not a real stripper - what are you talking about? Dual power doors, power liftgate, 8 way dual power seats, alloys, 3 zone climate control, removable center console, upgraded interior, power everything, 10 speaker JBL cd system, fog lights, etc. etc. No, it doesn't have leather or a sunroof and I didn't want either of those options this time. I've had them, and they are overpriced. The dvd also was not a necessity this time as this van is used for mostly short trips. In the future I might get it, or I can easily make do with a portable player. My kids watch enough dvds as it is.

    "I would reiterate - if you got higher payments on a cheaper vehicle you did not explore all your options for financing properly. That means - you have lost money. "

    Really, it is just the opposite. I got lower payments on a more expensive vehicle, I explored my options, and saved money. Case closed.
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    OK, bear with me please. I've always been confused by leases (as are most people, I understand: the reason auto sales folks love payment shoppers). But isn't the relative value of the deal dependent upon how much was due at signing, how long the lease is, and what the residual is? I'd also assume that the "normal wear and tear" criteria (as actually enforced) and the specified charges for falling below that level upon return would affect the quality of the deal, eh?

    I think I understand outright purchases (the reason that I've stuck to those) with the idea that you own the vehicle (such as it is at that time) at the end of the payments. There, I'm simply concerned with the actual out-the-door price paid together with any cost of financing. At any time on a straight purchase, I can decide to sell or not depending simply on what I would get for the car and whether I'm satisfied with that amount or not. No forced return with potential "Whoops, that is worse than it should be, so we'll have to charge you for it" or a big lump to buy it outright.

    But, leases seem to be a slippery sort of thing that, like the odds in Vegas, are stacked to the advantage of the "house." From the customer's perspective, other than the lower-payment (for a season), the only advantage I've heard of involves a possible tax advantage if leased for a business. I'd certainly value some further education on the subject....
  • irgirg Member Posts: 197
    Leasing can seem tricky, but if you do your homework, it isn't as mysterious as once thought. It seems though, that it isn't as popular as it once was. And in some states like NY, most of the car companies aren't doing traditional leasing anymore, instead using a "Smartbuy" option like GM, where the title is in your name, instead of the manufacturer.

    With leasing, In a sense you are basically paying for a portion of the vehicle. If you keep a car for 3 years for example, how much did that vehicle depreciate during those 3 years? Let's say for example a vehicle costs $20,000 and at the end of 3 years it is worth 50% (or the residual). So you are basically paying for that portion, or that $10,000 over the course of 3 years. You get lower payments usually, but you are right, you have nothing to show for it either. Of course, you can still buy the vehicle if you want to at the end of the lease, although doing so is usually more expensive in the long run than if you just financed it in the first place. But you can always negotiate the price you are willing to pay for the vehicle at the end of the lease, just like when you first bought it (my friend did that with a Saab, and got a great deal that way since they haven't held up in value very much).

    I have leased 4 vehicles in the last 7 tears or so. I have never had to pay anything at the end of the leases in terms of damage, excess mileage etc. but I take good care of my vehicles, and don't typically put a lot of miles on them. If you drive a lot of miles, or don't take good care of them, you probably shouldn't lease. I did have to get out of one lease a little bit early because the job I had made me put more miles on the car than I expected (I had the car before the job). So there, I had to pay off the remaining payments in advance. I guess too, I could have sold the vehicle, and if I had sold if for enough to pay off the balance, that would also have worked.

    I had the choice with my Sienna, lease it for what I wanted to pay, or buy a used van (and I almost couldn't touch recently used Siennas or Hondas.). If I bought a used Grand Caravan for example, about $19k around where I live, the payments would have been close to what my Sienna was. But I would have had to finance it for 5 years probably, and used vehicles still depreciate too. I have bought 2 other used vehicles recently, and have been surprised at how poor their resale have been. My Ford Explorer is hardly worth anything. But I digress.

    The one advantage leasing can have, is with some brands, the residuals can be fairly high, meaning they don't depreciate as much as other brands. The residual on my Sienna after 3 years is around $18,000, so my payments are fairly low, all things considered. For others, they don't have to worry about monthly payments, so buying is the only way to go. Also, with leases, you shouldn't put any money down, with a purchase it is usually a smart thing to do.

    Leasing is pretty striaght forward now, and it isn't voodoo science. For most people, financing is the better way to go, for some, leasing is a good option. I also like to have one of my vehicles to be pretty new and be under warranty, leasing lets me do that. If you keep a vehicle for 15 years until the wheels fall off, obviously traditional financing is the way to go.

    The odds aren't always stacked against you. A while back, I leased a Nissan Altima at a very good rate. Turns our Nissan overinflated their values and they ended up losing money. Toyota claims their Tundra pickups has a residual of 71% which is great, but after the end of the lease, I will be curious to see whether Toyota can resell these trucks for that much. It wouldn't surprise me, but that does seem a little bit optimistic. Manufacturers never really know exactly what the market will bear 3-4 years down the road. Cars like Lexus seem to always have pretty good resale, so leasing is a safe bet here for both the manufacturer and it should be for the indivudual too. For a while, SUVs held their value very well. Now they don't so much. Manufacturers either have to inflate their value (to entice you to lease) or make the lease higher, which will turn off some buyers, but then the numbers will be more realistic later at the end of the lease.
  • swtxnswtxn Member Posts: 1
    My wife and I were all set after seeing the brochure picture of the Sage Brush Pearl thinking it was a type of "British Racing Green" color. The dealership didn't have one, but it was what she wanted. After a dealer swap it arrived and green is not what I would use to describe the color. Anyone else had this problem? :confuse: Now, I have a wife who isn't happy with the color so now we're looking for a Silver EX-L.

    As a side, we compared the Sienna (currently have a 2000) and found Honda to be a much better deal with the EX-L over a base XLE that was $1000 more.
  • eastwoodguitareastwoodguitar Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone know when the 2006 models will be available? Or, when the 2005 models first were available? We are considering getting one of these, but don't want to buy a 2005 if the 2006 is right around the corner....
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Everytime I see a 99-04 Odyssey running down the road and I have yet to see one with the rear windows cracked. The "helicopter effect" affects a lot of cars. Most people just don't open their windows I suppose. I know I rarely open mine.


    The opening of the rear, third seat windows, is mostly for allowing the a/c and heater to work more efficiently by allowing a better airflow all the way through the cabin. That is why Chrysler has them instead of allowing the windows on the sliding doors to roll down. Which as you know, brings in that helicopter effect.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    swtxn. FWIW - in '03 we were deciding upon the Sage Brush Pearl and the Silver and concluded that with our crew, the Sage Brush with the darker interior was better for us. also, we were doing things on the cheap (relatively speaking) and so an LX was what we wanted...the flat black / un-painted mirrors and door handles of the LX (as opposed to higher-level trims where they match the body) look just fine against the Sage Brush background.

    i believe in earlier model years, (and I'm sure someone can tell you actually when) the ODY did come in a "primary" or "forest" green, and even a grey. the Sage Brush Pearl as you've discovered is not the typical green - to me it seems a blend of blue, green and grey. that description doesn't do it justice. it also seems to reflect a slightly variable color depending upon sky conditions, light-levels and surroundings and is nice in appearence, specially after being washed and waxed (what color doesn't?). anyway our '03 in Sage Brush also has what seems to be metal flecks in the paint, and so isn't too bad at masking a bit of dirt.
    regards.
  • hibrienhibrien Member Posts: 7
    Hi all, well, I wish I purchased a Honda. I am just about ready to trade in my 2004
    Sienna xle. I have been waiting two weeks to get the air conditioning repaired in
    my Sienna. The dealer keeps trying to fix it, then fails, then orders more parts.
    The change in the 2004 body style allowed for a rear air conditioning unit. The problem
    is that it is a known failure that the rear air conditioning lines rub against each other
    and wear out causing loss of all refrigerant in the system. The vehicle has 15k miles
    on it and it is one year old. Oh, and the oxygen sensor failed as well resulting in that
    the whole exhaust manifold needs replacement as the factory over torqued the
    oxygen sensor, yet another known common problem. I also have a 2004 Honda Civic
    Hybrid with 36k miles on it that I love! My next car will be another Honda. Brien
  • strstr Member Posts: 64
    Go Ian!
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