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Comments
I can't comment about the utility of the Sienna slide forward seat, as I've never seen the 8-passenger version. Even so, the Odyssey second row indexing seat is probably similar. It has probably come in handy a half dozen times in 5 years...
It stupefies me that, through arrogance or pure idiocy, car salespeople too frequently act as their own worst enemies! :confuse:
Let me just add a couple of thoughts about why we chose the Ody.
First, I agree that the 8th seat in the sienna is more useful than the 8th seat in the Ody. However, we have found it very difficult to get to the third row when there are three seats in the second row, particularly if the outboard seats have carseats on them. For this reason, we would have preferred the 7-seat sienna over the 8-seat sienna, since we don't usually need 8 seats. However, we liked the flexibility of the Ody, since we can generally use it as a 7-seater (and allow access to the back), but use the 8th seat in a pinch. So for our situation the 7/8-seater Ody is more functional than EITHER the 7 or 8 seater Sienna.
Second, we were originally leaning towards the sienna because it had the automatic rear tailgate in the trim we were looking at. However, we found that the tailgate moved very slowly, and so we would have turned that feature off anyway. (Others have not found this problem, and it is possible that it was just a problem with the one we looked at.)
Third, the Ody in our trim had the moonroof, the Sienna did not.
Fourth, the Sienna was somewhat more expensive.
Fifth, we liked the interior of the Ody better. Although we liked the exterior of the Sienna better, we felt that we are going to spend more time looking at the inside than the outside.
Sixth, the Sienna recommends premium fuel, whereas Ody does not.
Seven, it is true that the Ody is slightly more noisy than the Sienna. But we are upgrading from a 98 Ody, so we aren't that used to a quiet car to begin with--and the new Ody is MUCH quieter than the old 98.
Eighth, the DVD in the Ody has a better screen and, more importantly, it loads upfront by the driver. This is important to us, since we have little kids who won't really be able to load up a dvd in the back.
Finally, I hate the Toyota option package scheme. It is this byzantine system where you can't just choose what you want, but you have to take all of this other crap with you--and that;'s if you can find the option package you want.
As you can see, most of these are relatively minor, and there are some benefits of the Sienna that counter them.
In the end, we just went with our gut.
I do recommend that you do test drive the Ody if you can. But if you can't, I'm sure you'll be happy with the Sienna.
(By the way, I notice that you found the Sienna to be a little cheaper. That might be because you aren't exactly comparing apples to apples. We really wanted the DVD--yes, I know you can get them aftermarket for a little cheaper, but we didn't want to deal with it--and both power sliding doors. Once you figure that in, you have to compare the EX-L RES with the XLE (package #6).)
Enjoy your purchase!
The rear access issue is an important one. Fortunately, our oldest will be 7 and would probably use a booster in the passenger side 2nd row seat or the 3rd row center. That will allow for easier moving/tumbling of that seat to allow rear access.
I'm not a big fan of DVD or NAV- just one more expensive thing to upgrade and/or replace once the warranty expires. So, those won't be a factor in the pricing unless I get a great deal. Otherwise, if we ever decide we want them, our preference will be for cheap portable rather than a built-in unit- much like the portable VHS unit we used in our Odyssey on long trips. Heck, I can get three personal DVD players and a Garmin GPS for less than the cost of either one built-in, let alone both, and they can be used outside the car too;-)
The premium fuel issue is not a major factor. 1999-2001 Odyssey models also recommended premium fuel and even rated HP/Torque figures on premium. Even so, they also allowed regular like the Sienna and I've never had an issue. I've seen a few anecdotes on Sienna forums of pinging on regular, but most owners appear to use regular without issue.
I will definitely take an extended test drive and inspection of the new Odyssey before deciding. It will probably depend on the pricing, changes and options of the 2006 models.
If the Sienna LE had the separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger, it would be more competitive for our needs. Without this nice feature, the Odyssey EX moved to a tie with a GC SXT for our desires.
Given they only tested two samples, it's quite possible that the results can vary slightly. Most likely, the 2004 model tested was just over the threshold to award 5-stars, while the 2005 model was just under the threshold. Even so, both could still be within an expected margin of error to account for variations.
It's also possible they tested two slightly different versions of the Sienna. Suppose one had a power driver seat, the other manual. Depending on the seating position, even some fraction of an inch could account for a small test difference. A retest of a different model Odyssey might show a similar variation.
It's also possible the NHTSA made a small change to their testing or ratings from 2004 to 2005 and this affected the scores of the retest.
You can nit pick small differences in the IIHS and NHTSA crash test results, but both these vehicles did very well in all the tests. Given their weight and availability of stability control and side curtain airbags, I'd consider them both to be among the safest vehicles on the road. It would be nice if the IIHS would do their side impact testing on minivans in the near future, especially since I'd think minivan buyers would be among the most safety conscious groups.
If the Sienna LE had the separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger, it would be more competitive for our needs. Without this nice feature, the Odyssey EX moved to a tie with a GC SXT for our desires.
I also like being able to control the rear temperature from the front or rear. Our current Odyssey allows this and I think the new one does, too. If I recall correctly, the Sienna only has a control for the rear in back.
I'll be hitting showrooms in September. While it looks like the Sienna would be my choice on paper, I have a hunch the Odyssey will win points once I see it and drive it.
Thanks for the information on the Sienna rear A/C and heater. I will have to look more closely at the Sienna features.
With a DC minivan, the rear fan speed can also be controlled from either the front or rear. ( It is probably the same in the 2005 Odyssey EX models. )
Each of the 3 have distinct advantages...but for some people, the Mazda MPV is a better choice than the 3 we are considering.
Surprisingly, the Sienna seemed to be more responsive than the Ody when the accelerator was pushed to the floor...at any speed.
I'm not surprised - both are very good performers. While the Ody has a big advantage in ultimate hp, the Sienna is substantially lighter with virtually the same torque rating. As far as pure acceleration goes, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that the Sienna felt quicker.
The Sienna LE had only the optional power sliding passenger side rear door and the overhead console...NO power driver seat and NO cast wheels.
1. I like the interior better - It feels more "high end" than the Odyssey EX-L we were looking at.
2. Larger rear storage area.
3. Power lift gate.
4. Less road noise.
It was a close call, though. We went back to both dealerships multiple times. There were a couple of things I wish I could transfer from the Odyssey to the Sienna:
1. Larger rear window/lower rear seats to increase view out the back.
2. Nifty removable/stowable 8th seat.
Overall, I'm pretty excited, and I can't wait for daylight so I can go drive the thing. The dealership was super nice, but took them FOREVER to get us from the sales department to the finance department to finalize the deal, so we didn't get out of there until almost 10pm.
i just couldn't stop thinking about it.... im sure you guys have seen it... or does anyone have a green 05 ody.?
1. Larger rear window/lower rear seats to increase view out the back.
2. Nifty removable/stowable 8th seat.
I was in for an oil change today and took a close look at the interior of the new Odyssey. I was not impressed with the 8th seat. It's not even wide enough to fit a narrow booster, let alone a larger carseat or adult. It might be useful for a booster or small carseat in a pinch, but the only regular passenger I could see using it regularly is a an average sized 8-12 year old child or a smaller teen. It is light and easy to remove, however, if you stow it you still have to put the entire lazy susan assembly somewhere.
The rest of the interior was OK. I liked the more simple dash layout of the old Odyssey, personally. The various adjustment levers, straps and buttons did not seem all that robust but all seemed to work fine. I did appreciate the 60/40 split rear seat, though they've forgone the tailgate feature which came in handy. While it was easy to operate, the feet on the 60 section were very difficult to engage into the floor anchors.
They said the 2006 models should arrive early next month, though they were not aware of any changes.
The first time I saw the +1 seat, I couldn't believe how small it looked. But then I actually tried it. It is much, much more usable than it looks. Before anyone passes judgement on it, they should actually TRY it.
I've spent the morning familiarizing myself with the car, running errands, figuring out where I'm going to put my stuff in the car. I have to say I love it. My kids have each claimed "their" seat, after much fighting over who was going to get to sit on the side with the rear AC controls. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was easier to park for me than I expected. I'm used to driving a '97 caravan (short wheel base), which I never could seem to get straight into a parking place. The Sienna is quite a bit bigger (both longer and wider), but I seem to have a much easier time of parking it properly. Go figure.
GOOD POINT. Perhaps it gets more comfortable the longer you own it and rationalize it? I'm not a big guy. Even so, I spilled over the edges onto the other seats. I'm sure it's been adequately reinforced and tested. Having taken a close look when I folded it for the lazy suzan, I didn't get a lot of confidence that it would be a great idea for a heavy adult to be using in the event of a serious rear-end crash.
I measured under 11" from the inside of one seatbelt anchor to the other. Yeah, you can probably still squeeze in if you or your child seat are much wider than that. Honda did do a good job with the space they had available to kludge in another seat. I'm sure it would come handy, as one of our kids might fit into it without a booster in a couple years and I'm sure I could make one child restraint or another fit there if needed.
Even so, I hope the Sienna 8th seat is a lot more functional when I see it. I'll reserve judgement on which design is superior until then. It does appear Toyota designed it from the ground up, rather than kludge it into the existing 7-passenger version. You do apparently lose some width and armrests from the outside captain's chairs to get the 8th seat. Not a bad compromise if you haul kids in back 99% of the time, but probably not worth it for those carrying adults for frequently.
On the other topic, I'd almost buy the Odyssey on having the exterior styling with the slate grey color alone. Both are very safe vans, and I could deal with the interior seating quirks of the Odyssey. The new one is still nicer than our 2001 in that regard. We've been really happy with our 2001 and the dealer, but I was really hoping the interior would have impressed me as much as the exterior.
It is.
"You do apparently lose some width and armrests from the outside captain's chairs to get the 8th seat."
You do.
"It does appear Toyota designed it from the ground up, rather than kludge it into the existing 7-passenger version."
First, yes, Toyota did design both their 7 passenger and 8 passenger versions 'from the ground up'. The Sienna was a complete redesign in '04 when they were released. However, the Ody was also a complete redesign in '05 when the +1 seat was released. Meaning it is NOT a "kludge" fit into an existing 7-passenger version.
Second, all you are seeing is two different approaches taken by Honda and Toyota. If you intend to use 3 across in the 2nd row fairly frequently, the Toyota 8-seater makes much more sense. However, to offer 3 roughly equal sized seats in the Toyota, they slightly reduced the size of the outboard seats and eliminated the armrests.
Honda took a different approach. They thought that more buyers would be interested in the ability to OCCASIONALLY carry 3 across in the 2nd row. Therefore, they kept the outboard seats full sized with armrests. Think of the Ody EX or EX-L like the 7 seat versions of the Sienna with the added capacity to occasionally carry a 3rd butt in the 2nd row.
Was Honda right that more buyers would be interested in occasional 8-passenger capacity rather than frequently? I don't know and I don't care. All I know is that for OUR situation, we liked the idea of having an 8-seater but also knew the middle seat would only rarely be used and didn't want to have the outboard seats smaller or w/o armrests. If we had bought the Sienna (and we WOULD have bought the Sienna if the local dealers hadn't been so proud of them), we'd have bought a 7-seater. As it is, we consider the +1 seat a "bonus" seat which doesn't compromise on the comfort of the two outboard seats in any way.
All I was attempting to point out was that, for occasional use, the +1 seat is actually better than it looks. Some folks simply take one look at it and think "no freakin' way am I sitting on THAT".
The 2005 is a nice evolution, but calling it "complete redesign" is a stretch. It's not the dramatic change we saw from 1998 to 1999, when they went to the new chassis. If you look at them, you will notice that the 2005 Odyssey second row seating is very similar to the 2004 version. Perhaps calling it a kluge is a little extreme, but they did pretty much just stick a small 8th seat in between the existing ones and called it +1.
I understand the differences in the two vans and how their use may vary from person to person. Indeed, I'd call the +1 seat a bonus, too. I'll be happy to have it if I purchase the Odyssey, but I won't fool myself into thinking I'd want to sit there for any extended duration. In fact, this is basically why I'm not strongly considering a Sienna XLE or Limited. At that point, I'd rather have the EX or EX-L for the +1 seat.
Fair enough. But I wasn't trying to fool anyone into thinking they'd WANT to sit there. Obviously, given a choice, I'd much rather sit in the outboard seats. All I'm saying is that it is more useful/usable than it looks. I've personally had people look at it, tell me it was completely useless, and then (after sitting in it) saying, "wow, this seat's actually pretty comfortable".
If you're over 6'0" and/or in excess of 180#'s, no I wouldn't recommend it. But for it's intended occupant (kids of normal build up to and including most HS'ers) I think it should be just fine.
If you had owned a small sedan like a Civic, Corolla, Nubira, etc. the difference in size between it and the '97 Caravan would be much greater than between the Caravan and the Sienna.
The only complaint I've had, after a full 24 hours of ownership, is that the kids are bemoaning the lack of reachable cupholders in the middle row. I know I could move the console back there, but I like it in the front. A minor point, I know, but I thought I'd throw it out there for those still contemplating their purchase. I'm toying with the idea of buying a second little console at Target or someplace. Not that I'm ever going to let the kids eat or drink in my brand new car...ha ha ha ha.
My LE has 8 way power driver seat and cast wheels and 4 wheel disc. I t just depends what option package is on it. I might also add that the I like the cast wheels on the LE much better than the Ody EX.
I'm leaning towards the Sienna because I've been spoiled by AWD but I could see myself buying either one. The dealers that I have been to here on Long Island are not coming off MSRP for the Odyssey (I was considering the EX-L for the sunroof) and they are offering the preferred price for AAA members but that's it. Can anyone recommend a good Honda dealer? Or is it just that there isn't room to move on the EX-L? The best price I've gotten is $26,882 + tax for the EX and $29,449 for the EX-L. I'm not sure the sunroof and the improved engine are worth the difference. Has anyone done better? If so, where?
One of the Toyota salesman told me that the Odys have trouble with their electrical systems and transmissions after a year or so and I can't find any evidence of these claims on this site or the others I've visited. Does anyone have any experience with this problem? Have I mentioned that I hate car salesmen and this whole process?
As to the Toyota-the best price I have so far for an Sienna LE 7 passenger is $29, 345 with $1,350 for a dealer installed sunroof. There is a customer cash back plan for $1,000, but that sum is taxed so the savings is not all that significant (we have 8.625 sales tax here). Has anyone done any better? Can anyone recommend a better dealer?
Thanks in advance for everyone's help.
It is very difficult to drive on the autobahn going less than 80mph, as there are BMW's and other faster vehicles blowing past you going around 180mph (are poor civic would literally get blown off the road when we first got there and got used to driving so fast). I wonder which performs better at these speeds, the Odyssey or the Sienna?? Does anyone know???? :confuse:
Hope this helps.
Ken
Their is an "American" Honda dealership over there (they sell to the military), that is where we bought our civic. But you get an "American" engine. German cars have engines that are built for the speed there. At one time I wanted to buy a Mercedes from a German dealership, but I was told I would have to get the engine converted to the tune of $3,000 because it is "too fast" for the American roads and I wouldn't get it past customs. I'm kinda drifting off from the topic now, but I just want to know what shape the Odyssey will be in from 5 years of driving on the autobahn at around the top speed that the engine can handle. But thank you for your input because this is a concern that I have. I have not seen any reviews on how the '05 Odyssey handles at it's top speed on the autobahn for 5 years. Oh, I must say, I won't be driving on the autobahn every day. But we will be taking trips to France and around Germany, but I will be driving locally on a day to day basis. Thank you so much you guys!!! I need all the help on this decision that I can get!
Enjoy your Ody!