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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • fred222fred222 Member Posts: 200
    How come nobody answers my question: What are the choices for buyers who want to buy a AWD minivan?
    This is not a silly game. It is a serious question for a lot of buyers
    For now, I believe Toyota, Chrysler does not for now.
    However, if you really want AWD, there are so so many options out there, why would you limit yourself to a minivan. The mpg is not much better than some of the mid size SUV's and they don't have off road or towing capabilities.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    I've already answered this for ctsang.

    The Sienna offers AWD.

    ALL of the current GM offerings (Chevy Uplander, Buick Terraza, Pontiac Montana, Saturn Relay, etc.) are also available with AWD.

    Are they as 'good' as the Sienna? Dunno; reviewers seem to place the Ody/Sienna quite a bit higher than the GM offerings. However, just trying to point out that the Sienna is NOT the only game in town when it comes to AWD and minivans.
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    GM's AWD minivan offerings are forgetable for obvious reasons. They are warmed-over versions of nine-year-old designs, confirmed by their huge and always-available rebates.

    As far as I'm concerned, Toyota has the only AWD minivan worth serious consideration.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    As far as I'm concerned, Toyota has the only AWD minivan worth serious consideration.

    Keep in mind that more budget-conscious consumers may like the lower-cost of the Chevrolet Uplander, mainly due to its plentiful rebates usually offered. ($33,500 for Chevy before rebates, but with such Red Tag sales events being so common, I would imagine you can usually find this for under $27k.

    I agree with you though, heywood, I wouldn't begin to consider a 9 year old van when better alternatives exist for similar money.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "As far as I'm concerned, Toyota has the only AWD minivan worth serious consideration."

    I can't disagree with you, but not everyone likes Toyota/Sienna. I know, I know....shocking.

    I was simply trying to answer ctsang's question regarding minivans and the availability of AWD. What I don't know (in keeping with this separate little mini-subthread) is whether or not the AWD GM offerings use RFT's or standard tires?

    I also have noticed that starting with the '06 models, the PAX tire system is available AS AN OPTION on some Nissan Quest models. I don't know if one can carry an optional spare tire if the van is fitted with the RFTs.
  • afrankcafrankc Member Posts: 6
    I see these terms used in the forum. Can someone explain what 'satellite-ready' means? Is the 06 Sienna Limited 'satellite-ready'? If so, what equipment is needed to attach XM or Sirius? Thanks from a novice.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    It means your installed factory radio can support a certain brand of receiver. For example, my '06 Odyssey is "XM Ready" meaning I could have the dealer install a propriatory Honda XM receiver that would plug into and work through the factory radio. This addition is very expensive on a Honda. I had my XM MyFi receiver hooked into the radio at Circuit City for about $125 including installation, wiring splitter and cup holder mount. I already owned the radio. Works just as well and was about $500 less than Honda's cost.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    question: does the XM radio require a special antenna? would an XM-ready vehicle have a special antenna already installed on the vehicle? just curious.

    as a buyer "XM-ready" would potentially be a negotiating lever if we were close on a deal..."toss in the XM radio and it's a deal". ;)
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Both XM and Sirius require an special antenna.

    Don't kid yourself, no dealer ever "Throws" anything into a deal. You pay for everything. In the case of the Odyssey, the XM receiver costs in excess of $350 plus a complicated installation. The XM antenna gets glued to the inside of the windshield on the passenger side. The actual receiver is installed under the driver's seat. Extensive removal of trim and seat are required.

    Go to Circuit City or Best Buy and buy a receiver for about $50 and have it installed. They will take it out when you sell or trade the vehicle.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    i had thought those "pods" or "fins" on top of people's cars were the antenna. very confused.
  • px260px260 Member Posts: 42
    Does any know if either model comes with "reading" lights in the 2nd and 3rd row seats, and not a "dome" light? I understand both cars advertise to have reading lights but I am not sure how true or effective they are? Can anyone share their experience comparing the two? Thank you.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Both the Sienna and Odyssey have overhead lights (combined with the overhead air vents) for the outboard seating positions in the 2nd and 3rd row.

    I don't know how you make the distinction between a 'reading light' and a 'dome light' so I can't tell you what these are.

    However, I know that in our Odyssey, these lights are fairly bright and I would NOT want to be driving at night with a passenger in either 2nd or 3rd row attempting to use their light to read by; it would be too bright and distracting to the driver. I don't know that any manufacturer offers what I would call 'reading lights' (ie. a light which shines a very small spot of light into the lap of the passenger).

    Personally, I would rather have bigger, brighter lights for passenger entry/exit at night. If a passenger wants to read at night, there are countless book lights available on the market which would not be a distraction to the driver.
  • px260px260 Member Posts: 42
    When you purchased the Odyssey, did you consider the Sienna? What made you decide on the Honda. I am considering the following elements:
    1. Odyssey styling, a "+".
    2. Odyssey offers interior air filter, a "+".
    3. Would consider the Odyssey EX-L, but not sure about the reliability of the VSA, after all, it is an extra feature that could cost big $ when needs repair. (I plan on driving it for many years to come)
    4. Toyota powertrain reliability and reputation, a "+".
    5. Interior quietness. I think Toyota is quieter.
    6. Fuel economy and safety. I think they are about the same.
    Can you share your experience on the two vehicles?
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Yep, considered long and hard on the Sienna (actually preferred the Sienna). Long story short, here's how we ended up with our EX-L:

    Traction/skid control and side curtain airbags was very high on our list. Standard on Ody; when we were looking in Jan. of last year, these were optional on the Sienna XLE. We wanted leather/sunroof/CD changer (all standard on the EX-L) but would have required one of the major option packages on the XLE (I believe it was Pkg#6 if memory serves).

    On quietness/smoothness/interior quality we felt the Sienna had the edge. On handling and some features (+1 seat, in floor storage) we felt the Ody had the edge. To be honest, I felt straightline performance was a wash; any differences were nothing to get excited about.

    VSA was not an issue for me because: a) it uses VTEC technology to control the valvetrain (which is how the cylinder deactivation works) and Honda has a pretty good reputation with their VTEC technology, and b) the only new stuff associated with the VSA were the active engine mounts and the ANC used to eliminate (reduce?) the effects of 3-cylinder operation. I figured that any problems we would have with these systems would show up in the first few months of ownership. After a year of ownership, so far so good.

    In the end, we felt the two vans to be very very close. There were features on both vans that we liked which were only available on one or the other. Neither offered EVERYTHING (drat!). If they had been priced similarly, we would have ended up with the Sienna.

    However, availability of Sienna's with pkg#6 was somewhat limited and (at least in our neck of the woods), we weren't able to get the local dealers to deal very aggressively. If I remember right, the best deal we got was $31.5k +TTL on the Sienna. We were able to negotiate $28.6k +TTL on the Odyssey EX-L quickly, on the color we wanted (Ocean Mist) for a vehicle in stock. No trade-in involved in either deal.

    We liked the Sienna, but not enough to overlook a $3k delta. I hope this helps.
  • agnostoagnosto Member Posts: 207
    As an FYI, I traded a 2005 Odyssey EX-L RES for an awesome reliable,luxurious and free of defects 2006 Sienna Limited... no issues so far, where the 2005 Odyssey gave me repeated issues for ever and yes was not a lemon, but one fact remains that HONDA is cheaply made... never ever again HONDA (I am so glad I got rid of HONDAs)!!!
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    Clarification:
    VSA is vehicle stability assist which is standard even on the low-end trim (LX).

    VCM is variable cylinder management, the technology which deactivates cylinders, has the active engine mounts and uses ANC (Automatic Noise Cancellation) technology through the radio speakers.

    Got to love all these acronymns huh?
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    Actually, I think an acronym is an abbreviation that forms a word you can speak, like SWAT, MASH, or RADAR. Just FYI (which is not) ;)
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    Websters has the following entry for acronym:

    a word (as NATO, radar, or snafu) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term; also : an abbreviation (as FBI) formed from initial letters : INITIALISM

    Maybe FYI is an acronym. Either way, thanks for looking out for me. ;)
  • deepdropdeepdrop Member Posts: 89
    Hi,
    I've been following this discussion for some time, trying to get a feel for the differences between the Sienna and Odyssey. We're now ready to buy since we sold our old car. Both minivans sound like they have certain advantages over the other, but the most important decision point for me is safety, with my wife and two young children in it. Can anyone help me understand the differences between a Sienna with AWD and an Odyssey EXL which does not have AWD, in terms of safety. We live in NH and see lots of snow and ice. Is AWD necessarily superior? How much of a factor is tire quality? Are there other traction features that are more important? Would ground clearance come into play in a snowy climate?
    I would really appreciate any opinions or experiences anyone cares to share. Thanks.
  • uggugg Member Posts: 2
    I want to buy a Honda or Toyota but I cant believe I'm not able to get what I want. I want a fully loaded Touring Honda or Toyota AWD limited mini van with 8 seats!!! I want all the bells and whistles but if I go this route, I have to lose a seat? Does this make any sense? What product would make you spend more but give you less?
    Before I give up, does anyone know if it is possible to add the smaller center 8th seat in the Odyssey Touring. I know a seat will fit but the touring doesnt have the belt guide coming down from the roof at the center seats. Is it possible to get one added so I can have 8 seats that are all safe. Wouldnt it make more sense to have lowers models come with 7 seats but if we are willing to pay more we can have 8 seats? :mad:
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Whoops, you're right. Typed VSA, meant VCM.

    Musta been low on coffee......
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Re: snow and ice.

    Well, I'm in south Texas so take all of this with a massive grain of salt :).........

    First, I don't know that the Sienna AWD necessarily has more ground clearance that the standard Sienna FWD.

    Second, AWD will certainly help in snow/ice conditions to GET GOING, but......I don't think you'll see any benefit in steering response/braking.

    Third, a good set of snow tires will go a long way towards helping with traction (whether AWD or FWD). Personally, I feel that a FWD setup with good snow tires on all 4 corners would be better than AWD with standard 4seasons tires.

    Fourth, if I projected a fair amount of snow/ice use, I would make sure that my vehicle had VSA/Traction Control. It is standard on the Ody and on the Sienna with AWD and XLE Ltd. I think you still must add it as an optional package on the Sienna FWD.
  • deepdropdeepdrop Member Posts: 89
    Rorr,
    Thanks for the input, even with a grain of salt (which actually DOES help with snow and ice!).
    This is the type of info that I was hoping for. I've heard the tires on the AWD Toyota are not great tires. It's reassuring to hear, that at least in your opinion, that I would be better off with good tires and front wheel drive.
    It's interesting to know what the real benefit of AWD is. Sometimes it seems like AWD is a magical system that prevents a car from ever losing traction. It sounds like the benefit is really with getting going. This is important, but less so than steering response, braking, etc.
    I don't really understand what VSA/Traction Control does, but I do understand that it is important.
    So thanks for taking the time to give your opinion. Hopefully I'll hear from others too.
  • fred222fred222 Member Posts: 200
    It's interesting to know what the real benefit of AWD is. Sometimes it seems like AWD is a magical system that prevents a car from ever losing traction. It sounds like the benefit is really with getting going

    We recently purchased a 2006 Odyssey EX-L and love it. We bought it to replace a 4x4 Suburban. I live in Eastern Washington with snow and ice and hills and realized that I was driving the Suburban in 2 wheel drive probably 99.9% of the time. Also realize that in 2 wheel drive, this is a rear wheel drive vehicle which is not quite as good as a front wheel drive vehicle. AWD (or 4x4) is good for getting going primairly on hills under poor traction conditions. It is also useful to go down hills under poor traction conditions using engine braking. For this limited benefit with AWD (vs. 4x4) you have all of the wheels driving 100% of the time. I feel that AWD is one of the biggest frauds perpetrated on the American consumer. At least give us the option of turning the AWD off and saving a little gas.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Yeah, I think we got the picture the third time you said that.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    At least give us the option of turning AWD off and saving a little gas.

    Honda's AWD system is not engaged unless slippage is detected. As soon as AWD is not needed anymore, it returns back to FWD only. Just something to consider; not all AWD cars are "FULL-TIME AWD", just a "supplemental" system, of sorts.

    thegrad
  • 05ody05ody Member Posts: 103
    Just incase you were woundering VSA(Vehicle Stability Assistance) just helps you gain control incase you start to slide, somehow it appys the braks and does some other stuff (dont really know exacally how it works, just know how it will help) and Traction Control will just prevent you from spinning. If the Traction Control detects that you are spinning it will lightlly apply the brakes so you stop sipining, and pritty much just let it slip abit then grab, slip and grab...(basically the opposite of ABS brakes)
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I don't really understand what VSA/Traction Control does, but I do understand that it is important."

    Like another poster said, Traction Control in essense works similar to ABS braking: when it detects wheelspin, it applies the brakes to the spinning wheels. Sometimes, wheelspin is needed (ie. trying to get going out of the snow) so (in most cases) the Traction Control can be turned off by a switch on the dash.

    VSA (vehicle stability assist in Honda-speak), VSC (vehicle stability control in Toyota-speak) and other similar systems are all part of what the industry refers to as "ESC" - Electronic Stability Control.

    ESC uses sensors to detect the steering wheel angle and inertial sensors in the vehicle to detect yaw (change in actual vehicle direction). It can compare the two to determine when the vehicle is not following the path intended by the driver at the steering wheel.

    For example, if the steering wheel is turned a fair amount yet the yaw sensors determine the vehicle is still mostly going straight, it knows the vehicle is beginning to UNDERSTEER. If the steering wheel is turned just a little bit and the vehicle is REALLY starting to rotate, it knows the vehicle is beginning to OVERSTEER. It can detect very very small amounts of understeer and oversteer very quickly.

    The system can then apply the brakes to individual wheels to help the vehicle actually follow the path intended by the steering wheel angle. In other words, it will help to prevent loss of steering control.

    Check this article from Car and Driver to see how important these types of systems can be:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=9036

    Note that all current generation Ody's have VSA. The Sienna XLE Ltd. and all Sienna AWD models also have VSC.
  • finzzfinzz Member Posts: 40
    Our current lease is up in May and I'm still sitting on the fence as to whether or not I should Lease one more time (3 years) or Buy.

    My hesitation is because I'm all about Green Technology and I would kick myself from here to Sunday if I buy a Honda or Toyota only to find that they will be offering a Hybrid ion the not-too-distant-future.

    Granted, I don't want to be one of those beta-testing for the first year model either.

    Does anyone have any knowledge or insider info as to if/when either Honda or Toyota will be coming out with a Hybrid?
  • deepdropdeepdrop Member Posts: 89
    Hey Rorr,
    Thanks for the explanation and the link. Interesting article. I wonder how complex the software is that drives these features (abs, est, etc.) and whether it has a significant failure rate.
    I have seen cars involved in pretty fast head-on collisions in which the air bags did not deploy. In that case, a failure is obvious if it occurs. It would be hard to know if a skid or accident occurred because the traction control or abs failed. I assume some sort of check is done but I would imagine it is not foolproof. That's why I like to push my cars a little, just to make sure things are working.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Well, I would imagine the software would be fairly complex. As far as the failure rate, that's a good question. I know the system undergoes a selfcheck everytime the car is started (similar to the airbag self-check).

    But I don't think folks should necessarily RELY on these types of systems to save their bacon if they get in over their heads; these are simply aids. Nothing can beat driver training/basic competance.

    That being said, I don't think the average driver should intentionally push their minivan to the point of checking their ESC system. While they may not be as top heavy as your typical SUV, neither will they react like a Miata. :surprise:
  • deepdropdeepdrop Member Posts: 89
    I was kidding about pushing the car to see if things were working. I should have put an "emotorcon" to indicate that but I'm not sure how to use them.
    Ahh...I used to have a miata. Man was that fun, but it just doesn't hold baby seats like a minivan.">
  • snfsma2snfsma2 Member Posts: 8
    I've read and read but can't seem to make up my mind whether I want to purchase a 2006 Odyssey Touring RES/NAV or 2006 Sienna Limited FWD with package #2.
    We've test driven both - I can't really quantify the handling difference - the Honda felt slightly sportier to me and the Toyota felt more quietly comfortable, but I don't really prefer one over the other. The price quotes I'm getting are similar enough to make it pretty much a wash in that respect.
    We currently have a 2004 Sienna XLE Limited w/RES which we still love but I'm ready for a new vehicle and def. want the NAV. On the 2004 version, you couldn't get both the NAV and a cd changer so we picked the package with the cd changer.
    I really like some of the new features available only on the Sienna, i.e. Bluetooth, the power folding mirrors and the integrated turn signals in the mirrors.
    However, I also like some of the Honda features, like the lazy susan storage (my daughter always has tons of her junk in the car, which drives me crazy), and the remote that has a storage spot (another sore issue, i.e. I can't find the remote!!) But the Touring comes with those run flat PAX tires, which have their own forum for griping about.
    At one point, I actually did decide I wanted the Sienna, but then I looked at the colors and there's not one I really like. We have the arctic frost pearl now, which shows all the dirt, just looks like plain white to most people, and has the light tan interior I don't like. The only color in the current model I could possibly live with that comes with the stone interior is the silver, but I can't get excited about it. By contrast, Honda has two colors I love and one with the dark gray interior that I especially want. But it seems particularly stupid to make a $36k+ vehicle choice based only on the color. Argh - maybe venting about this difficult choice will help! :confuse:
  • loncrayloncray Member Posts: 301
    What's stupid about using color to make your choice? The very best vehicles (in this case Sienna and Odyssey) are very close to one another, and each has features you like and features you don't like. Once you have it down to that level of detail, things like color, how going into the dealer feels, and even where the dealer is physically all come into play.
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    The AWD is superior-- IF you're willing to shell out the bucks for (4) snow tires. AWD does not eliminate the need for winter treads.
  • low_ball_88low_ball_88 Member Posts: 171
    snfsma2, you are agonizing on the east coast and I am agonizing on the west coast. I am in the same situation. I like the Odyssey better because of the handling and feel of the power when you step on it and of course the dark gray interior as well. It seems like it will hide the dirt/stains very well. The seats seems to be more comfortable than the Sienna. I have had issues with the leather seats in my 02 Sequoia Ltd. They do not fit my body very well and my back is soar after a half hour drive. The quality of the leather is less than desireable and the Sienna seems to have the same/similar leather. The seats in the Sienna seems to be a little thin, especially the third row which we plan to use often. The only gripe we have about the Odyssey is that the third row does not fold down as easily. Actually, you need some strength to fold them. The third row split is opposite from the Sienna, meaning that the 40% side is on the driver's side. That does not quite make sense since most of the time one would enter from the right curb. The dash on the Odyssey is not as nice as the Sienna.

    Can't really say what will happen next but it may come down to who will give me the best deal.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Which do you value the most? Do you value comfort more?

    Just ask yourself what you value the most. Would you prefer to be comfortable during long/short trips...? Or would you like a better 3rd row seating?

    If you still can't decide, price is a good way to make the deal.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Know how you feel but at a lower price level. We test drove and compared the Ody EX (cloth) and Sienna LE ( + the GC SXT ). We prefer white exterior and the Sienna LE has a very nice taupe interior while Ody white has an unattractive (to us) light yellow/tan interior. On the other hand, we really liked the Odyssey Ocean Mist Metallic (blue) exterior with the bluish-gray interior.
    We felt the Sienna instrument cluster is THE most attractive on any minivan and slightly preferred the Sienna LE cloth interior to the Ody EX cloth interior. The Ody felt like it might have slightly more leg room in 3rd row. (The GC SXT interior felt cheap in comparison to the Sienna LE and Ody EX ). Each dealership had excellent, non-pushy salesmen but the Ody dealership required a $ 500 NON refundable deposit just to get on the waiting list. When the Toyota dealer had the EXACT Sienna we would have ordered and also gave us a decent price quote, we bought the Sienna.
    Some decisions are very difficult. Best wishes in yours and please let us know what you buy. ;)
  • nettonetto Member Posts: 12
    After a tough month of deliberating, I am taking delivery of my new Odyssey. It was a choice of XLE or EX Cloth.

    From the get go I contacted about 12 toyota dealers. My wife is on her 4th Toyota and so the XLE was first choice, however,
    1. The Toyota sales people were obnoxious. They weren't helpful, they weren't frank. I could see that they were only interested in their commissions.
    2. I contacted about 12 Honda dealers. All of them provided bottom line prices. All were willing to deal.
    3. The brakes on the XLE were too responsive. People in the back could feel the effects.(Even though CR states that the Honda has overall better braking distance).
    4. The interior layout was better in the Honda. More conducive for a family.
    5. The gear stick in the XLE was too low, too loose, one could easily displace it by a simple hand movement.
    6. The visibility in the Honda is better.
    7. It's cheaper even with after market add ons like rear view camera.
    8. The toyota has a power tail gate which I wish the honda had, however the tailgate is light enough to compensate.
    9. The mid seat folding mechanism as well as the rear seat was easier in the honda.
    10. The honda retains value better than the sienna.
    11. The Honda has a little more power, better responsiveness. Plus better fuel efficiency on the highway.
    12. Honda is made in the good old South.

    Any ways, I bought the Honda with cash with in a week. Whilst researching the Toyota over a period of a month I couldn't commit.
    Toyota's option packages are too confusing and have unnecessary items that add to expense. Honda comes with everything included, simple and easy.

    Hope this helps, Happy Shopping !! :)

    Oops, just remembered,

    Was shopping for both new and used. There were a ton of 05 Sienna's on the market compared to the Odyssey. There was also a greater gulf between the trade in value and dealer retail price for the Sienna. It seemed as though used Siennas were deliberately over priced to facilitate negotiations on the price.
    This posed the question :-
    What did people get rid of their Siennas so soon? ;)
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    For the second year in a row the 2006 Honda Odyssey is Motorweek's pick for minivan of the year.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    It is also a Car and Driver "Best Minivan" for its fifth year. The year it didn't win? The new Sienna was out and won, and the Odyssey was on its fifth year!

    You can't go wrong with either choice. It's just a matter of personal tastes (softer & comfy or firmer & sporty), although neither is so extreme to one side or the other as to put too many off.
  • rviradiarviradia Member Posts: 44
    Because sienna is used by rental car companies and odyssey is not, so more used are available.

    >What did people get rid of their Siennas so soon?
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    Who rents Siennas these days? Before I purchased a new van, I looked a couple times for any rental agency that had one and struck out with all the majors in the area. Toyota has a dealer program that allows rentals subject to availability, but otherwise all I could find was domestics at Hertz, Avis, Dollar, Budget, etc.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    That was the deal at Orlando airport, too...Freestars, Relays, and Gr. Caravans, but no Hondas or Toys.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    "Who rents Siennas these days?"

    Alamo and Hertz in some regions have Siennas in their stables. I choose Siennas over DGC anytime I have a choice. Never seen an Ody rental though!
  • lastwraithlastwraith Member Posts: 350
    Actually they used to use them as fleet vehicles here in NYC though I havent seen one lately....then again I havent really looked either.

    I always thought it was a pretty good fit instead of the big crown vics, prob get better gas mileage too.
  • winston7winston7 Member Posts: 11
    Bought a Sienna last year and felt it's well money spend. have been comparing it with the Oddyssey but finally settled for the Sienna. Two(2) major reasons, the price factor and the seat factor. With the latter it seats comfortably and the middle row uses three seperate seats which can be removed one at a time. It can also be adjusted back and forth. Unlike the Oddyssey which makes use of a small inserted seat at the middle of two large seats which cannot be moved forward or backward. Defenitely dont want to settle for american cars because of its price fluctuation lately which makes its resale value so low.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    For the second year in a row the 2006 Honda Odyssey is Motorweek's pick for minivan of the year.

    That's great if the Odyssey is a van that will do everything you want it to do. If not, it doesn't mean much.
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    If safety is really your "most important decision point" and you drive in snow/ice, winter tires will serve you better than AWD.

    Simple question: Have you ever been in an accident because you couldn't go? How about because you couldn't stop in time?

    AWD helps you go, that's it. Winter tires help you go, stop and handle better.

    -murray
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    AWD helps you go, that's it. Winter tires help you go, stop and handle better

    Yup.

    AWD and other safety systems only manage the existing grip, they do not increase grip. Winter tires do however.
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