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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    This is a comment posted to another forum (Brand problems swept under the rug):

    Here is another website of unhappy Toyota owners about the techniques used, or not used, to keep owners informed about problems. It was started November 10, 2009.

    http://sites.google.com/site/toyotav6oillinescandal/
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's getting more and more difficult to find quality products anywhere. Everybody seems to be intent on cutting corners as much as possible.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Post that in a few more places.......
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Honda has had recent problems, too, like the 2-round airbag recall that was expanded. NHTSA is investigating why they limited the recall in a first round of recalls, suspecting cover-ups/foul play.

    Why don't we keep stuff like that in that thread, where it belongs?
  • yatesjoyatesjo Member Posts: 186
    I think a Toyota vs Honda thread is a perfect place to talk about the shortcomings of both vehicles- mechanical problems included.

    At least we aren't including the Chrysler twins in the discussion or else we'd not hear about anything but their mechanical problems. Both Toyota and Honda have well earned quality reputations and both, unfortunately, are willing to take some not quite ethical actions to keep those reputations from getting tarnished.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sienna is still the #1 van for reliability. If the problem were affecting these vans CR's data would show that.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not a single minivan makes the list. :(

    Lots of room for improvement, from every single minivan:

    http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr111809.html
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    But then again, if you check the individual results for:
    Chrysler Town & Country
    Honda Odyssey
    Kia Sedona
    Toyota Sienna

    you will see the following:
    Roof strength test results
    No roof strength tests have been conducted for this vehicle.

    To get a Top Safety Pick, you must score Good on this (rollover). Since none have been tested, none can get a Top Safety Pick.
  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    In some ways, these ratings are misleading. I would much rather take my chances in a large minivan than be in a wreck in a Nissan Cube!

    Until these tests get "real" about what happens in the real world, you have to take these ratings with a huge grain of salt! :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good catch.

    I guess they're different than Consumer Reports.

    CR will recommend a vehicle until/unless it fails a test.

    I guess IIHS will only name a Top pick after it passes all tests.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, a Cube is lighter and more narrow, so it's much more likely to roll in the first place.

    I still think it's important, though. A manufacturer can "cheat" and design a safety cage to perform well for a specific test, i.e. at a specific speed, or angle, or height.

    This test is new so noone cheated. Those 27 cars have solid pillars/roof structures even before they knew IIHS would be measuring that.
  • lonestarmomlonestarmom Member Posts: 20
    I am currently the owner of a 2000 Odyssey with 260K miles. We are planning on purshasing a new Sienna in the Spring of 2010...most likely the XLE. Has anyone purchased the "Vehicle Protection Plan"? Is it worth purshasing? Is it worth upgrading the stereo system...is it that much better? Also, I heard that the Sienna has gone up about $800...any truth to that? Appreciate any input.

    Oops, meant to say "Vehicle Shield Package".
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Just curious here as to what made you decide to switch from your Odyssey (which you apparently drove a LOT!) to a Sienna. We had a 2000 Odyssey which we liked a lot.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    By Spring 2010 the redesign should arrive, or be right around the corner. You may just have ideal timing to get the best price on the current model, so good luck, first off.

    Vehicle Shield Package is probably a dealer package with Scotchguard, paint sealant, VIN etching, etc. Those are cash cows for the dealer and IMHO unnecessary.

    Has the price gone up $800? I don't think so. In fact incentives are pretty good right now.
  • lonestarmomlonestarmom Member Posts: 20
    We sure have driven our Odyssey a lot (still are). We live in a rural area and are close to nothing, so we do put a lot of miles on our vehicles. I will say that we have been mostly happy with our Odyssey. It has been very good to us. Aside from replacing the usual items, we have only had to replace the radiator, water pump, and the ac hose. My two biggest complaints about our Odyssey is the road/wind noise and cup holders...they are to shallow ( we have many stains because our passengers "forgot" to hold onto their drinks while the driver made a turn). Anyhow, to answer your question, I believe the Odyssey and Sienna both have good reliabilty, of course that is most important to our family since we keep our vehicles for a long time. So after ten years with the Odyssey I decided to switch to the Sienna for something "different".
  • lonestarmomlonestarmom Member Posts: 20
    Do you know if the Lusterizing Sealant which is listed under the Vehicle Shield Package is the same thing as their Paint Protection Film which is listed on their accessories page? Sorry if I seem a little dense, but Toyota's different options, packages,etc. can drive a person a little nutty trying to figure it all out. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorry, no idea. I don't generally shop for that type of stuff.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    The paint sealant stuff isn't even recommended by the mfgr. Not only is it overpriced, car finishes today are so good all you need is a wax job once a year. Some dealers include the pro pac for free. Then they expect you to keep up with inspections and reapplications to preserve the "warranty ". Never ending expense and you don't need it.
  • lonestarmomlonestarmom Member Posts: 20
    Ok, thanks anyway.
  • lonestarmomlonestarmom Member Posts: 20
    "Once a year", glad to hear that. Waxing is not one of my favorite things to do.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We wash our van every time it rains. :D

    Whether it needs it or not! :P
  • islandvanislandvan Member Posts: 23
    i have a 2010 le and generally love the car but am very unhappy with the drivers seat.

    this is the most uncomfortable car seat i have ever sat in.

    i have tried every position i can and i constantly get a pain where my right leg meets my butt cheek.

    has anyone else had this experience ???? did anything work to fix your problem?

    thanks
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    You can avoid it altogether -- every 2-3 years have it professionally detailed for $125. It will seem like a new car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not sure if my 2007 seat is the same, but mine's as comfy as my favorite couch.

    Have you played with the cushion angles? I raise the front of the seat to provide extra thigh support.

    Also, if you have power seats, check out the power lumbar support to make sure it's not intruding too much.
  • lonestarmomlonestarmom Member Posts: 20
    Do you have something like that done at the dealer?
  • allavalonsallavalons Member Posts: 67
    There are many car detailing companies both national chains as well as local shops. Google auto detailers in your area and you will see a listing. Pick the ones closest to you and give them a call and get prices.

    I live near a large auto auction site and the car detailers just multiplied unbelievably since they support the auction. I was able to get a complete detail, shampooing the carpets, wax, engine steam clean, etc, for $95.00 about a year ago.

    just a little research on your part :shades:
  • islandvanislandvan Member Posts: 23
    yes i have the power seat and have tried lumber, seat and back up / down in many different positions... right now i have a towel that i am sitting on and moving around to see if a little extra support will make it better.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    allavalons is right. One additional note. Don't go to the dealer. They outsource detailing to companies and will overcharge you. You could ask the dealer who details their cars and if they like their work. Contact the company directly for a quote.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe try some seat covers. Taxi drivers in Brazil all seem to have those wooden ones, not sure why, but they're so abundant they must work.
  • jpatesjpates Member Posts: 4
    On Toyota's site, it says that the 1.9% 60 mos. financing ends on 11/30. However, on Edmunds.com, it says it is scheduled to end on 1/4/10. Is it possible that Toyota has decided to keep the promotion going that long already but is just not indicating as such on their websites?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Possible and likely, but e-mail car_man from the car buying forums to verify that's accurate.

    If so, kudos to our hosts for having more recent information. :shades:
  • jpatesjpates Member Posts: 4
    Toyota just changed their terms on their site to match what Edmunds already listed. 0.0/1.9 APR for 36/48-60, sale/delivery by 01/04/10. Good stuff.
  • drm000drm000 Member Posts: 3
    My wife and I had been looking at the Odyssey and Sienna in the Atlanta area for the last three months after the cash for clunkers deals killed inventories.

    I currently own an Acura TL so I was favoring the Odyssey but decided to test drive them both and did like the way they both drove. The Odyssey seemed to drive a little tighter but the Sienna seemed to have a little better acceleration. There were things that we liked a little more on each but the Odyssey had the storage bins in the 2nd row but not much around the front area and the console between the driver and passenger seat looks cheap. The Sienna had a lot more storage in the driver and front passenger section but none in the back but did have built in sun shades which is a nice feature with children. I did like that Honda offered the vinyl/plastic covering for the back/trunk area that Toyota doesn't offer.

    After looking at prices for comparable models, the Sienna was $3,500 - $4,000 cheaper than the Odyssey (Sienna XLE w/Package #3 vs. Odyssey w/RES) even though it seemed like Honda had a much higher inventory across the board when I last searched on 11/24/09. The only incentive that Honda has released was 1.9 % financing which is still not as good as the zero percent that Toyota is offering. That made the decision a lot easier considering we wouldn't be selling the car in 3 or 4 years but more than likely keeping it 7 or 8 and putting over 100,000 miles on the car. Since we planned on keeping it longer and driving it more than 100k miles, the resale factor on Odyssey was marginalized with keeping it for a while.

    We ended up going from the Sienna XLE package #3 to the XLE #4 (Leather, DVD, Navigation, Back-up Camera, Satellite Radio, Wireless Headphones,Sonar/Front Intuitive Parking Assist, Toyoguard Protection plus, 17 Inch 7 spoke alluminum alloy, JBl Synthethis Speakers) and still ended up paying $1,600 less than what we would have paid with an Odyssey RES with no additional upgrades.

    In these times, the additional $3.5 - $4k in my pocket on top of paying zero percent from a financing standpoint as opposed to even a low 1.9% offered from Honda makes a big difference.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    First off, congrats. That is one nicely equipped van!

    ALG rates both of these vans as having 3-star residual value, so any difference isn't very significant. A Hyundai Entourage would have been a concern, with just 1-star residuals.
  • toyojunktoyojunk Member Posts: 19
    Buy a Sienna if you want a cheap radio with poor reception. :lemon:

    Our 2006 Sienna LE will not pick up stations driving across southern Nevada and Mojave Desert of southern California which our less expensive 2002 Chrysler T&C LX received clearly.

    Tonight, our Sienna radio quit working while I was listening to a football game enroute to attend a wedding reception. Tried the FM radio - dead. Same with CD player. No sound system in any previous vehicle quit with less than 32,000 miles on the odometer.

    The radio in my sister's 2001 Ody EX with 113,000 miles on the odometer and my daughter's 1999 GC SE with 123,000 miles on the odometer still work. Toyota reliability is a sorry, sick joke.
  • toyojunktoyojunk Member Posts: 19
    The Odyssey EX-L has a nicer looking interior than the Sienna XLE unless your idea of luxury is fake wood plastered all over the steering wheel, dash, and doors.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    One bad radio is not a big enough sample compared to the thousands of vans measured in CR's reliability survey.

    Your problem is unfortunate, but statistically insignificant.

    As you said earlier "the Odyssey is the MOST expensive" (the all caps was your emphasis, not mine) so it's fair to expect a better interior, though not all of us agree with you.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Too late to edit, so I'll add this as a PS...

    You have an LE model, so why complain about the trim on a model that you didn't get? That makes no sense at all.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I find it interesting that there is a lot of rather passionate arguing on these two vehicles when the media is proclaiming the minivan is all but dead. Personally, I don't see the minivan dying any time soon, its a lot more vehicle for the money than a SUV or CUV and a bad economy just makes it that much more attractive.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm passionatelly anti-troll.

    If people want to participate in the discussion and add constructive input and even criticism, that's fine.

    To pop in and drop bombs out of the blue, especially when they contradict what that same person said earlier, is a shame, and we should not put up with it.

    This is OK -> I'm having trouble with my stereo, does someone have the 800 # that I can call, or has someone found a fix?

    And by the way that belongs in the appropriate problems thread.

    This is not OK -> my single van has a bad stereo therefore Toyota is THE DEVIL and all vans are going to explode and kill all occupants in less than 24 hours so sell your van NOW!!!!111eleven!!

    Another thing - this user had the name "hansienna" and changed to "toyojunk", and I believe hiding your identity in such a manner is against Edmunds' rules.

    So yes, I am passionate about outing dishonesty like that. :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Take two of these and call me in the morning.



    :)

    Just messin with ya Juice... :shades:
  • yatesjoyatesjo Member Posts: 186
    I'm with you on this. Hansienna/Toyojunk is a troll and a basher who's sole purpose is to demean the Sienna usually by repeating the same lies again and again (at least the radio complaint is new). If we let him get by with the lies he wins, and he keeps posting again and again waiting for us to get tired of his game.

    It is good to keep refuting him, but try not to get too peeved- I am sure he gets a perverse satisfaction at getting tweaking people.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Apparently I didn't link my photo of a bottle of Vailum properly... :)
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    The reliability of valium is way overstated. Lots of warranty problems and quality issues. Xanax is the far better product for anxiety disorders. The tabs have a far superior shape with upscale features. Only hosers and geeks would be seen with a bottle of valium. Even the cap is harder to remove.

    Now that I've set everyone straight on that issue, been researching vans and came across an interesting option. Chevy/gmc makes an awd full size van with seating for 8 that msrp's in the low 30's. Airbags all around. Lots of space for sure. May check those out in a few years. Mpg is low of course but if you don't drive much like me not much of an issue.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Valium = Stability Control?

    image

    I kid, and should probably let it go...

    The full-size "church vans" you're talking about have been around forever. Is there even a discussion for those?
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    No discussion -- I like the awd option and the shorter version. Buckets and two benches. Probably still big re the minivan offerings. But with 2 grandkids scrapping on the way to Disneyworld ---- could really get some separation. Just something for folks to consider. Only one inch of leeway to get into the garage. Wouldn't have to worry about what not to take either. Probably go with a kia Soul -- promotes togetherness ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To all 3 of you for lightening the mood. I'll try not to let them get to me.

    This thread has been informative to shoppers for both of these vans. I didn't know the EX-L got a power tailgate until someone here told me. Too late for me but useful for new shoppers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/02/la-2009-2011-toyota-sienna-could-wear-a-lexus- -badge/

    Looks good. Butch Sienna meets Venza, with Corolla-ish headlights.

    They're going to offer the big 4 banger from the Venza as an engine option. Even though I'd still get the V6, people have been asking for a fuel miser alternative. +1 mpg city, +2 mpg highway.

    Still, hauling all that mass, I'd want the V6.

    19" rims. Mama-mia. Overkill?

    They mention an "ample use of wood" but I wonder if it'll be the real stuff. It does warm up that interior.

    2nd row leg rests are to die for. I hope the 8 seat option doesn't disappear.

    16" LCD screen is another "wow" option. That'll make my 12" one seem small. Time for an upgrade? :D

    Honda has the upper hand, now. They've seen the new Sienna, and may have enough time to adjust/respond to these upgrades. When is the new Ody due? I wonder if the design is already finalized.

    I remember when the latest Civic came out, Toyota went back and made more changes to the new Corolla in response to it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2009/12/2011-toyota-sienna-at-the-2009-- la-auto-show.html

    They'll keep the 8 seat model, phew.

    There's a pic of it in there. The middle seat is not as big, but the outer seats get armrests, so hansienna's #1 complaint is addressed.

    6 speed automatic for both engines.

    Looks nice.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Sometimes people just need to vent to get it off their chest. Heck, aren't you in sales? You should be all too familiar with this!
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    It looks to have a bit of Venza in the front, a bit of Highlander inside and the side and rear seem a little more traditional minvan in the pix. I think I like it's looks better than the prior model or the current Ody. The current Mopar vans look like a hearse from the rear in my view.
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