Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

stickguy · September 2004

The engine is fine. I think the problem is the tranny dragging it down.

doug889 · September 2004

Tran, it's not hard for Sienna to have a 6 cd changer WITH NAV. My wife's Lexus RX330 has both. That's one of the reasons I may go with the ODY Touring, but it doesn't have the HID lights. I guess nothing is perfect.

doug889 · September 2004

MSRP for both Sienna XLE Limited and ODY Touing with NAV and RES are bout the same. But You can get $2000-$3000 off Sienna's MSRP now. So it makes the Sienna quite a bit cheaper than the ODY.

andrewtran71 · September 2004

"it's not hard for Sienna to have a 6 cd changer WITH NAV. My wife's Lexus RX330 has both."

Yeah, I know. I was being sarcastic. A $25K Honda Accord has Voice Activated Navigation AND a 6-CD changer, and yet a $39K Sienna Limited has NEITHER. Instead, the Sienna has a mediocre NAV with a single cd player!

By the way, I can get $4K off MSRP on the Sienna Limited w/NAV+RES in OKC.
So street price right now for the Ody does not look good at all.

I'm sure it's not hard for Toyota to put a decent metal chrome grille on the Sienna either. Heck, Hyundai put some serious heavy metal chrome on their $26K XG350 sedan that would put my Lexus LS400 to shame.

It's not hard for Toyota; they are just not willing.

stickguy · September 2004

The Ody headlights might not be HID, but boy are they big. Especially noticable when you see an '04 parked next to an "05.

jsmath5 · September 2004

The CRV fires are being caused by the gasket that is supposed to be replaced on every Honda during oil change of the filter. It is a crush gasket that needs to be brand new every time you get a new oil filter. Honda mechanics know about this and know what to look for. Jiffy Lube guys DO NOT understand the importance of changing out the gasket. Now, every new oil filter will come with this gasket. Other lube guys will put a new gasket over the old one on the vehicle. As you drive away from Jiffy Lube with 2 gaskets on, oil will get on the exhaust and catch fire. All 9 incidents where this has happened has been traced to oil changes done elsewhere than a Honda Dealer. So that's the deal, oil on the exhaust due to 2, or more gaskets on the oil filter. Also if you change the oil yourself, wipe up any excess oil on the frame, lines, or exhaust. I watch all our mechanics change oil and they let it run down from the oil filter along a shop rag into the old oil collection bucket.

Does that help. Also our 4 05 Odysseys are gone, sold at MSRP. The Toyota salesman came by to find out why Sienna sales are so slow. Sienna has got a issue now with the new Odyssey, everyone likes the nice ride and powerful engine, drive by wire and standard VSA, 3 curtain airbags, side bags, dual stage frone, ACE body structure.......and the list goes on......

ggs · September 2004

This thread is about Honda Odyssey vs Toyota Sienna. There's no reason to hijack the thread by mentioning CRVs here.

jsmath5 · September 2004

Congradulations on your new 05 Odyssey, they are awesome. Your wife will love it. Did the safety and performance get you? What was the clincher?

jsmath5 · September 2004

Didn't you just buy a new Sienna? Buyer's Remorse?

jsmath5 · September 2004

Have you driven the new 05 Odyssey yet, the luxery will astound you. We sold all 4 at MSRP, sold one with a deposit and people are coming in looking for the 05, sold out, waiting for more...sound famaliar? The Navi is off the hoook, press the button for open/close, the Navi screen tilts down to access the 6 disc in dash changer, how cool.....

liujn · September 2004

After test driven both vans, I think both have very good acceleration. Humm.... wondering where is that 'sluggish' coming from. Oh, I got it. It must be the throttle. Sienna requires a heavier foot.

I don't think it is the AT. It is the fact that Toyota's AT has better design than Honda's.

stever · September 2004

That's not what people are saying in Honda CR-V engine fires, Jsmath. But please continue in there.

Steve, Host

badgerfan · September 2004

Now I know you don't know what you are talking about. Oil filters all have an integral gasket attached to the filter.

The crush washer you are talking about is the washer used on the drain plug, not the oil filter.

The Crv problem is when the old oil filter gasket partially or complete sticks to the engine block and the mechanic installs a new on over the old partial gasket, creating an area for leakage.

Get your facts straight before you post. Typical salesman hot air.

stever · September 2004

Final warning :-)

Steve, Host

badgerfan · September 2004

I may have gotten a little harsh. No insult intended, just would like people to look at all the great information on the entire Edmunds forum and get informed.

jsmath5 · September 2004

All 2005 Odysseys have a drive by wire throttle system, it costs more than a throttle cable. The Sienna is conventional throttle cable. That's why the Ody feels quicker, plus the extra 25 HP may play a little bit into that also.

jsmath5 · September 2004

After conferring with my tech, the problem is extra gaskets on the filter. Not the crush gasket on the drain plug. So I was part right. The oil filter gasket is causing the problems, Honda has a tech bulletin on it.

Let's talk Sienna vs. Odyssey. Which has a better crash rating, bigger and more economical engine on regular unleaded gas.....oh wait; Sienna recommends Premium in their 230 HP Engine....

jimxo · September 2004

I confirmed this today and in person. Who started the rumor that it would?

andrewtran71 · September 2004

Have not gotten a chance to test drive yet because they're all sold around here.

Did you get a chance to see if the PlusOne seat will fit into the Touring?

Yeah, the NAV should be great. I'm sure it will look even better in person.
I still haven't even seen an '05 Ody in person!
They are too hot right now and nobody has them sitting around.

badgerfan · September 2004

Sienna also has drive by wire throttle, which is being blamed sometimes for hesitation problems in Sienna. So, both Sienna and Odyssey have drive by wire throttle.

Actually, unless the throttle cable sticks, a mechanical cable is easier to design for rapid engine response. There is the possibility of slight delay in the electronic circuitry to accomplish the same function as a direct cable connected throttle.

Once again, there is a lot of good information right here in Edmunds. Just type in "drive by wire" in the search block for the Sienna 2004+ Problems board and you will get some information.

stickguy · September 2004

really just means that the same ECU (computer) that runs the rest of the engine controls also "interprets" what throttle opening is required. A cable is real time, in that you push the gas, the throttle open. With DBW, the ECU can decide how much (or little) gas to give the engine, depending on what it is mapped to do.

The tranny is also electronically controlled, along with the valves, etc. So, put it all together, and a computer is deciding what you really want the engine to do. Even if the mechanical part of the trans is fine, the brain can delay shifts, hold gears, etc.

The end result is under some conditions, the van feels much slower or more sluggish than it really is. It also seems to be the root cause of the lag felt at low speeds when turing, basically the ECU can get confused, and you get a delay while it figures out what to do. Notice the fix from Toyota was a programming update.

A true side benefit of DBW is for parapalegics. Really, you no longer need the gas pedal, since it is not longer connected to a cable. You could just as easily use a handgrip, or dial of some kind, since it is just connected to the ECU. People just are used to a gas pedal, so they get a "virtual" one to use.

georgekaplan · September 2004

First of all. I'm a detail freak. We purchased a 2004 XLE Sienna last Monday with the '04 Option package #9 (ES) - at a great price. We were and are still more than pleased. I haven't been able to sleep well knowing that we could have messed up by not waiting for the new '05 Oddy. To calm myself down I went to the Honda dealership today and checked out the inside and outside of a EX-L with a fine tooth comb and took it for a spin.

In the past I have bought some things and come to find out that something else was better and I should have bought it instead. I admit my mistakes and just move on. I just knew that after testing the new Oddy that I would have regrets. Fortunately, that isn't the case here. Whew!

Here's the low down: I am shocked at how unimpressed I am with the Oddy, compared to the Sienna. Wow! Never thought that would be the case. Let me put that in a better perspective: the new Oddy is impressive, just not when compared to the Sienna. Let me explain:

INTERIOR
I thought the Honda interior was gonna knock my socks off. Uhhh, no. Comparing the two vehicle dimensions, they are close to the same width and depth, but man, the Sienna just seems SO much larger. The moonroof is much smaller in the Oddy as well. The front and side doorpanel layouts are inferior for many reasons - Sienna front has the hidden armrest 6 cd holder, the overall designs, no push button for side door area, etc. I thought the seats would trump the Sienna. Sorry, no dice. Comfort is about the same with Sienna having a slight edge. 2nd in Oddy has exposed latch holders with no leather cover. I prefer the Sienna third row seats for many reasons: headrests, fold down mechanisms, arm rest layout. Sienna passenger side 2nd row seat belt is attached to the corner of the seat NOT to the side of the van. HUGE advantage here for many reasons.

Now, I do like the Oddy lazy-susan storage area. Nice! I also like the material used for the ceiling on the Oddy more than the fuzzy material used on the Sienna. And I like the fact that side row curtain airbags are standard.

I thought I would like the dash and controls better on the Oddy - again, no contest. Everything just seems more refined and simple on the Sienna compared to the "too many clustered buttons" on the Oddy. The gated gate shifter on the Sienna is better than the straight shift on the Oddy. Luxery vehicles have this feature and it is easy to see why. All of the storage areas in the Oddy just don't add up to the design, layout and positioning of those found on the Sienna.

Exterior
Okay, enough about the front end looking better on the Honda. Unless you like a snub nose look then I just can't understand why many people are favoring the Oddy in this area. Honda was at fault for not hiding the side door track under the 3rd row window - I mean, c'mon, it's 2005 boys. And why Honda didn't include power tailgate on the Oddy EX-L is beyond me - duh! As far as the body, Oddy has way too many busy design lines on the outside versus the simple elegance of the Sienna. And the chrome around the windows just doesn't look that appealing to me on a mini-van.

Driving
The Oddy is good here. However, from all of the talk on these forums, I thought it would really rock the Sienna. I drove an '04 Oddy one month ago and I own a '04 Sienna (built 09/04). The feel of the new Oddy is somewhere in between - not the sporty feel of the '04 model and not as soft as the Sienna. This is personal preference - one is not better than the other. As far as power goes: c'mon people, the difference in hp between these two ships is miniscule at best. I simply couldn't tell a difference. Acceleration, braking, handling, etc - they are just about even in each area. One does NOT stand out above the other.

All in all, I can't believe I let all of the new Oddy smack get to me. I had to make sure we made the rigt choice. Here's the thing, if I mess up, I admit it. I was SERIOUSLY considering getting the new Oddy if it was that much better. That just isn't gonna happen....thank goodness.

If you are considering one of these two vans, really take an objective look and consider the above notes. Man, I just didn't think that the Sienna would be that much more favorable to me. Heck, I thought it might be the other way around.

(shaking my head in amazement)
Happy shopping,

George

PS - I just proof read my post. I sound like a Toyota salesman. Oh well, that's just how it shook out.

doug889 · September 2004

Being big is the same as being HID.

stickguy · September 2004

at least if a bulb goes you won't be out $1,000. Those HIDs are expensive.

andrewtran71 · September 2004

Personally, I prefer the cushy feel of Lexus/Toyota over other makes too.

But I think the new 2007 Hyundai minivan will rock both the Sienna and Ody:-) **hee**hee
Okay, I'll stop:-)

However, I think the RES of the Sienna makes you feel like you have less headroom since it is bulkier than the '05 Ody.
Also, you can get the 8th seat w/ leather on the Ody, but you can't get on the Sienna.

Some things are more important than others for different people.

doug889 · September 2004

If Sienna XLE Limited had 6cd changer with better NAV, I would get the Sienna. I prefer Toyota car's ride. We have a 2003 Acura MDX (a honda) and a 2004 Lexus RX330 (a Toyota), I like the RX330's ride better. Maybe I am old (40).

vertrkr · September 2004

George, I couldn't agree with you more. I was shocked when I first saw the Ody interior expecting so much more after they said and I quote from their site "drive like a European luxury sedan". I guess they really did mean just 'drive' like one not feel like one inside. Although my wife doesn't care and just says hard plastic is easier to clean kid barf off of, sheesh.

I've spent many hours in a Sienna Limited and was very impressed and comfortable in every regard except for one glaring feature, the NAV/RES interface too cumbersome.

isellhondas · September 2004

I'm shaking my head in amazement too...

WHY would you do that to yourself??

I mean, I'm glad you like the Sienna that you bought over the Odyssey you didn't buy...I really am.

BUT...What if the opposite had been the case?

What if you had felt as many do, that the new Odyssey trumped the Sienna?

Some things I'll never understand, I suppose....

jmurman42 · September 2004

not to mention having NO respect for the salesman who spent who knows HOW long with this guy.

*shaking head in amazement*

isellhondas · September 2004

Like I said...some things I'll never understand.

laroy76 · September 2004

Wow dude, you wrote a book! As to the comment of "Acceleration, braking, handling, etc - they are just about even in each area. One does NOT stand out above the other." - OK, the Honda acceleration is only a half a second quicker than the Sienna *IF* you remember to put the Premium gas in the Sienna, the Odyssey uses regular unleaded. Braking however, Honda has a distinct advantage. From 60 to 0 mph the Odyssey stops over 6 feet shorter than the Toyota! That's the difference between eating a Metro or just tapping it's bumper. I hope you got a good deal on your Sienna because your resale value is going to be between 6 and 7% worse than the Honda 3 to 5 years from now according to ALG. Thats a $2,300 advantage is resale after 3 years and a $2,000 advantage in resale after 5 years. (comparing the Touring and XLE Limited) As you can tell, I'm a Honda guy. I think what it generally boils down to is brand loyalty. Your not a bad person for buying the Sienna, just confused.

scienceman · September 2004

Has anyone seen invoice numbers on the Odyssey yet? Toyota releases their prices and invoice prices are up pretty quick. But still no invoice prices on the HO yet. I would like to know how much profit dealers are getting before their markups.

scienceman · September 2004

Just noticed that Edmunds has the 2005 FWD Sienna at 19/26 for mpg. Isn't it strange that they reduced the highway mileage by 1 mpg? Perhaps this is a misprint.

lobsenza · September 2004

Lets suppose you get 18 MPG and drive 12,000 miles per year. You use 666.7 gallons of gas. At $0.15 difference per gallon, it amounts to $100 per year (typical here in TX). At $0.20 more per gallon, it amounts to $133 per year.

There are so many factors when buying a vehicle, this is not really very important.

isellhondas · September 2004

Why would that matter?

Would you care if it were a piece of furniture you were buying or a necklace?

Just curious...

indy93 · September 2004

Hey what about the Honda salesmen who posing as customers went over to toyota dealer's to shop the Sienna when it first came out "talk about a stroke job" No respect!!!

anonymousposts · September 2004

heywood: Read my post carefully ....

"I know these figures can be inflated but www.carmax.com has a van identical to mine that they are selling for $25,998 with 5,000 more miles and no DVD system."

Do I expect to get $25,900. Nope. I would probably get around $23,000-$23,500 from my local Carmax (based on them selling a 2004 w/ 10k for $25,998). Either way, I think that shows that the resale value has not been destroyed by the lease deal as you are trying to indicate.

soyyo1 · September 2004

Hi i'm new here,,,I'm not a toyota or honda guy even so I like toyota I have a 4runner since 86
I had the best looking van and was nissan quest es
to bad i took them to lemon law i have my money back..I need a van, i went to look for the Honda touring with all the futere...$ 38 plus.. they want $5000 over the msrp... look the person like he have 5 head... Now toyota sienna 2005 is here.
they tell me will give me it for $38,500 + tax
now it is with all the gadgets and awd... Can i get the honda with the laze (sorry) stupid susan,,No spera tire....I relly beleave the honda sale person are out of control....I think toyota is must better.

tom11 · September 2004

Does anyyone know if Honda will offer a 2005 EX-RES w/o leather? This was offered in the 2004 but I don't see it in the 2005.

scienceman · September 2004

Yes, isellhondas, it matters even for furniture. That's why all my furniture was purchased from discounters in NC and saved thousands--you can even get a good idea of the mfg price to retailers on that these days. I believe you guys are entitled to make a profit when you sell a car, but knowing the invoice puts me in a better position to bargain. And contrary to the belief of this board, not all Honda dealers will be selling for MSRP or more in a few months. One big difference between now and 1999 is the economy. People had money to burn back then and were looking to get more where that came from. Everything has changed now. Give yourself a few months to re-evaluate.

ewt · September 2004

I stopped by my Honda dealer today and looked at and drove an 05 Touring. Overall, I was very impressed - they've managed to close most of the sizeable feature gap that existed between the Sienna Limited and the 04 Odyssey. I own an 04 Sienna Limited, so I'm not in the market, but was curious what the new Odyssey was like.

Interior:

- Overall, I like the Sienna better. The controls are layed out in a more logical fashion (why does Honda insist on putting frequently used stuff to the left of the steering wheel?) and the materials are generally nicer, in particular the leather. Honda used "wrinkly" leather, which looks low-rent IMO.

- Honda may have come up with the definitive folding third row. I'm not sure how it could get much simpler. The Sienna isn't hard to fold by any means once you've done it a couple of times, but the Honda is easier. The second row in the Odyssey has more legroom, while the third row in the Sienna feels roomier.

- The second row center console in the Touring is nice, but can't be used if you have car seats in the second row since the seat can't be folded forward to slide to provide access to the third row. I'd rather have the front center console in the Sienna than the folding table of the Touring since it is a very handy place to keep things. The lazy susan is somewhat of a substitute, but not accesible from the driver's seat.

- The Touring is missing a few features I'd miss on the Limited. No buttons to open/close the sliders on the b-pillar, smaller sunroof and no third row window shades. Not make or break features though.

- I don't have a need for an 8-seater, but if I did, the Sienna would be the only game in town for me. The "8th seat" in the Odyssey is suitable for leprechauns and children under the age of about 6 for trips beyond 10 minutes.

Exterior:

The 05 Odyssey looks better in person and looks nicer than the Sienna overall despite all the chrome (sorry Andrew, chrome belongs on g-rides, not minivans). The Sienna looks better from some angles than others. It looks awkward for some reason from the rear IMO.

Driving:

- The Odyssey is torquier, but I doubt it is much faster if it is faster at all. The Sienna doesn't feel as strong at low rpms and part throttle, but doesn't feel much different at WOT.

- It has a somewhat firmer ride/handling compromise than the Sienna and heavier steering feel, but feels bigger and heavier than the 04 Odyssey. Big 4600 lbs. boxes with a high center of gravity don't handle well period in an absolute sense. Anybody who compares the handling of ANY minivan to a sports sedan or sports car needs to recalibrate their senses.

Overall, they are pretty close IMO. Which one is "better" comes down to personal taste rather than any great superiority of one over the other. Car salesman without a shred of objectivity may think the "Odyssey blows the Sienna away", but I doubt many buyers without a $125 commission check hanging in the balance would feel the same.

Speaking of non-objective car salesman, a couple of corrections:

1. The Sienna does not have a live axle. It has a twist beam axle, which avoids one of main drawbacks of a live axle (hundreds of lbs. of unsprung weight). A twist beam actually has a couple of advantages over an IRS in an application like a minivan. It doesn't allow camber change as the back end is loaded, and is lighter and simpler.

2. I can stop the sliding door on my Sienna with my extended index finger and it took less pressure than it did on the 05 Odyssey. It is hardly a safety hazard.

I'd probably buy another Sienna if I were in the market again right now because they are available at not much over invoice around here, and dealers are asking over MSRP for Odysseys. Given the amount of competition in the market today and the volume Honda is planning to produce, prices should come down quickly on Odysseys in the future. At equal prices, I'd have a hard time deciding between them.

stever · September 2004

Jewelry is even easier - just look at the gold or silver or platinum futures and toss in some labor and marketing. Since furniture markups run about 100% and up, jewelry must be marked up at least that, if not 1,000%.

I don't understand why gold or diamonds are so precious - every Wal-Mart has plenty in stock. 2005 Odysseys - now those are at least semi-precious right now :-)

Steve, Host

tcsubwoofer · September 2004

Safety and performance were a big part of our decision. I've heard that the 2005 Siennas will have standard side curtain airbags, but I'm not sure. However, I feel that I'm able to get safety, performance, and a lot of luxury for $32,400 (EXL with DVD Res) as compared to current pricing of the Sienna. I mentioned in my earlier posts that the engine seemed sluggish in the Sienna. When I test drove the Sienna XLE and was accelerating on highway or off ramps and punched the gas, there was no jerk of power, only a slow acceleration - hence the feeling of sluggishness. The honda seemed to have more perk. This was a huge factor with my wife who prefers performance.

Another reason we went with the Honda was the selection of colors. I've personally never been a big fan of the Sienna colors. The only colors I really like in the Sienna are Pearl White and Blue. There must be 4 or 5 colors I really like on the Honda (Midnight Blue Pearl, Nighthawk Black Pearl, Sage Brush Pearl, and silver Pearl Metallic). Just add "pearl" to it and I like it. We choose the Nighthawk Black Pearl which is different from most other vans I see.

Just today we were offered a 2004 silver Sienna XLE with DVD Res for $32,200. But because we like the colors, power, and standard safety features of the Honda better (plus the new SOHC i-VTEC engine), this "clinched" our decision to make a deposit on the Honda.

tcsubwoofer · September 2004

I just placed a deposit on an Odyssey and I am very happy with my decision. I do want to say that your observations seem "right on" to me. I too feel that the Sienna is a bit more luxurious and has more gadgets to play with. I actually think the driver's seat is more comfortable than the Odyssey. I'm a little bugged about the lack of rear power hatch. The one big thing that bothers me most with the Odyssey is that it feels less roomy than the other vans.

I like the styling of the Odyssey and Sienna. However, I don't like most of the colors of the Sienna and I think the colors of the Honda give it a better look.

My first impression of the Odyssey was that I wasn't blown away by the interior either. But after driving the Sienna again, the difference in interiors isn't "night-and-day". These vehicles are sooooo close in competition. The leather on the Odyssey is quite nice. The interior is great. More functional than ostentatious. The 3rd row fold downs are awesome. Each has features that will be more important for one person, and not another.

I feel that Honda will hold better resale value and that I was able to get a better deal on all the features I wanted versus MRSP discounts on the Sienna. I'm also attracted to the SOHC i-VTEC engine.

Anybody should be happy with either the Honda or Sienna. They give variation for different taste and are nearly equal in every respect. I also have a distaste for Toyota because they have been overcharging the market for 1.5 years, and now they are lowering prices since a new cowboy is in town. That alone gives them negative marks in my book.

georgekaplan · September 2004

What are you talking about NO respect?

If I want to test drive a vehicle, I can do so. I WAS a intrested customer. IF the Oddy was all it was elevated to be, we were seriously thinking of getting an EX-L since we wouldn't be out but a few thousand dollars to do so.

And anothe rthing, this "sales guy" didn't know much at all about the Honda. Pretty funny. I had to show him how the moonroof and the tailgate worked. He didn't know how to fold down the 3rd row seats. He didn't know that when the gas flap is open that the side door would not open. I told him about the Sienna acceleration hesitation thingy and how it does so because Toyota uses the same trany as the Lexus and that some don't like it and that he could use that in his sales pitches - which he likes. I pointed out where the 115v outlet was located. He knew more about the new Oddy after I left him. And I quote: "we are having a training session on these things tonight. I'll have a heads up on everyone after talking to you".

So calm it down children.
A. I was considering maybe getting one of these IF it heavily outweighed our '04 Sienna - which it does not by any means - and if you have an open mind you will feel the same way.
B. The 20 minutes I spent with the sales guy was of more value to him than it was me, so RESPECT has nothing to do with it.

Get your stuff straight before you start throwing rocks in the playground.

And as far as "why did I do this too yourself - what if it had gone the other way?" - Well, then I would have had to live with the fact that I should have waited. Some people don't have fear of finding things out no matter what the result might be. I wanted to know.

Think you all are overthinking this here. Just giving some feedback on what I think is a no-brainer.

Night Night,

George

georgekaplan · September 2004

laroy76 said:

"From 60 to 0 mph the Odyssey stops over 6 feet shorter than the Toyota! That's the difference between eating a Metro or just tapping it's bumper."

Wait for Consumer Reports to give an unbiased opinion. The Honda could even be better...COULD be even better. I don't KNOW since I haven't conducted that test myself...just like you. I know that I have tested both and I didn't get this same feeling. Maybe the tabloid you read this from is right, but I doubt it. CS is THE only research entity that will shoot it straight. Might be awhile before we get this.

"I hope you got a good deal on your Sienna because your resale value is going to be between 6 and 7% worse than the Honda 3 to 5 years from now according to ALG. Thats a $2,300 advantage is resale after 3 years and a $2,000 advantage in resale after 5 years. (comparing the Touring and XLE Limited)"

Yes, I did get a good deal on the Sienna. And, if you want to buy a mini-van and sell it after 45K miles then that's your choice. I plan on having the Sienna for alot longer than 3 to 5 years, so resale value really won't matter too much then. But I doubt that your numbers are right in my case. It all depends on how you sell something. A well maintained vehicle with low miles will really mess up those numbers you just threw down. This whole reslae thing is out of whack anyway. Next...

"As you can tell, I'm a Honda guy. I think what it generally boils down to is brand loyalty. Your not a bad person for buying the Sienna, just confused.

"

Ha Ha Ha. There is nothing wrong with being a Honda guy, getting the silver medal a real achievement. Seriously, they make good vehicles - REAL good vehicles. Brand loyalty is huge, but doesn't apply to me. If I thought the new Oddy was better, I probably would be crunching numbers tomorrow, since we will have our van for a long while. Chew on this: the last vehicle I bought was a brand new 1990 Nissan pick-up. It's in my garage with 203,000 miles on it and I drive it everyday. Didn't matter to me what brand we went with:

If the Quest was the best, I would have left the rest

George

bethean · September 2004

Okay, I'm a So Cal gal who goes to Utah mountains to see family all the time. Lots of snow. Winding roads. Me, not used to driving in these conditions. Should I automatically get the Sienna XLE Limited because it has AWD? Or would the 2005 Oddy Touring or XLE do just as well? And what's the story between the NAV systems? Why is the Oddy's supposedly better?

And thanks for this forum. I've learned more here than through any other website.

stickguy · September 2004

don't take the comments too pesonally. You were being grouped with folks with buyers remorse. And, very few of them would be willing to trade in a brand-new car on another one. Instead, they drive themselves crazy thinking they made a mistake, paid too much, etc.

So, in most cases, looking at the van by yourself is fine (browsing in the showroom), but if you took up a salesmans time and did a test drive just to torture yourself, that is the scenerio that I think Isell was referring to. And I bet he sees it quite often.

I still need to get the wife out to drive the Sienna again (we drove the Ody this week). From what I remember from last year, it was very nice. We might have actually bought noe, except for the lack of supply, and the screwy optioning.

I think the '05 Sienna will be better in the way it is equipped, assuming Toyota deems to build some of the packages listed in the brochure.

andrewtran71 · September 2004

It matters a lot because then we would know how much bargaining room we have.

If the MSRP of the EX-L w/NAV+RES is $34K and invoice is $31K, we know that they will easily give a $3K discount after a year or two--just like the Sienna.

stever · September 2004

Instead of ascribing motives to each other, let's try to focus on the vans. Thanks,

Steve, Host

Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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