Toyota Yaris

reddroverr · September 2006

Hard to get an exact comparison between pricing on the Scion xa and the Yaris, but..

A base Scion from the site is:

13,360

Comparable optioned Yaris:

14,520
*optioned to get power W/L, antilock brakes, 60/40 seats, etc.

What jumped out at me is that the Scion is a five door and comes with a tach, both of which add cost. I am sure as optioned the Yaris may have some features Scion doesn't..however it looks to me that the Yaris at +$1160 has a price fudge factor built in to MSRP.

nippononly · September 2006

Yeah, if what you WANT is a 5-door (or really any-type hatch, since the Yaris hatch is so hard to get), the xA is probably a better deal unless you don't want any of the power equipment. Many people (me included) don't, and in that case you should be able to save $1000 by going with the Yaris.

reddroverr · September 2006

Hi nippononly,

I was trying to get as close to an apples to apples comparison for the purposes of showing that the MSRP on a standard dealer type sale is set different than the no-haggle type sales of scion, saturn, etc. So the salesperson who seems to think that people should waltz in and pay MSRP on all cars is incorrect because we are not dealing with cars that are priced for that way of doing business.

I myself was tempted to get a stripped down Yaris...it would fit my needs. But it seems that there are so few available and more and more competitive cars are coming out. so I held off for now.

nippononly · September 2006

I think it's official - there isn't a new car you can buy in America that is as stripped as the base Yaris. I was amused by a blurb on it in the new cars issue of Automobile this month: (paraphrasing) "it must be the 70s all over again - rear defroster and radio optional?" I tend to agree with their perspective, given the car costs $11-12K in base form. If it were $8995, then maybe. More to the point, I wouldn't expect an $8995 base model from Toyota nowadays, and that's fine. But for $11K, things like a radio and defroster should be in there right from the start. Oh yeah, and a tach! :-P

Now, as for the point you were trying to make: the argument could be made that the Yaris has an advantage or two over the xA you compared - folding mirrors vs fixed on xA, nicer interior in the liftback, newer design with slightly lower emissions and slightly more power, not to mention slightly better handling and ride right out of the box. Does that add up to being worth an extra grand? No. And it's ridiculous to think that a car like Yaris should automatically sell at MSRP. Indeed, it already fails to command that premium at several dealers in my area.

kneisl1 · September 2006

And with the falling price of gas im wondering if yaris sales will start falling also.

bottgers · September 2006

I think most people know gas prices will only stay like this until next spring, or until market speculators start driving them back up, whichever comes first. Anyone who bases a vehicle purchase based on what they're seeing now at the pumps would be a fool!

kneisl1 · September 2006

Well...the fools have been buying eight and six cylinder cars for a long time...

tjw1308 · September 2006

"And it's ridiculous to think that a car like Yaris should automatically sell at MSRP"

Why? If demand in your area forces dealers to discount it a little (even invoice is a little mind you) great, but to say it's ridiculous at MSRP is, in fact, ridiculous :P

The problem these days is that people want a discount no matter what. They don't even realize that all that does is force the manufacturer to charge more to begin with to compensate. If you don't believe me, look at all the great "deals" you can get on hard to sell products...

If you look at the BIG picture (gas mileage, resale value, reliability, etc...) rather than just what the car sells for the moment you drive it off the lot, you'd see that the Yaris kills it's competition decisively.

Notice that I don't mention a goofy warranty. Why? Because a long warranty doesn't mean a thing when you're stranded on the side of the highway, or late to a meeting, etc...

I'd rather have the peace of mind of probably never having to worry about that. Something you just can't say with very much confidence about any of Yaris's competitors besides the Fit.

Personally I see great value in BOTH the Fit and the Yaris at MSRP. The Fit was originally my choice (and remember I work for Toyota), but demand was dictating a $2000+ price difference (Over MSRP btw) and then I found out just how old the Fit really is (even though it's still pretty darn nice).

After looking at the big picture, I paid MSRP for a Yaris.

I COULD have waited a few months, but I wanted it right then, and certainly didn't think it ridiculous considering the other options out there. I also consider my time valuable enough to not sweat spending endless hours/frustration trying to beat a dealer out of a few hundred bucks. Again, if your time isn't worth it, more power to ya.

Show me how a Focus/Rio/Aerio/Whatever is a better value at below invoice than the Toyota or Honda (If you could get one for it) is at MSRP?

T

nippononly · September 2006

My whole statement was "ridiculous to AUTOMATICALLY sell at that price". Meaning dealers taking the attitude that no-one else would sell it under sticker. Because plenty will.

And if I had bought the car in March - a brand new model in its first month or two - I would have expected to pay full sticker too. Which is why I would never buy a car in its first few months after launch.

If you had waited six months, you could have saved 5%. If you had waited a year, you could have saved 10%. I like those numbers.

But you are right, there is something to be said for viewing the deal on its own merits. And on its own merits, in the context of the current market for subcompact models, I feel that the only Yaris that is a decent deal at MSRP is the one you got - the liftback manual with convenience package for $12,300. I don't feel the $16K Yaris S sedan manual with power package is a very good deal at all, although at $14,5 it would be very attractive.

OTOH, I feel the Fit Sport manual at $15,7 is a very good deal at MSRP, but the base Fit looks shabby with those silly wheel covers, handles a lot worse with those little 14" rims, and leaves out some crucial stuff, so it is a sucky deal at its $14,4 sticker price.

backy · September 2006

Show me how a Focus/Rio/Aerio/Whatever is a better value at below invoice than the Toyota or Honda (If you could get one for it) is at MSRP?

2007 Accent SE, invoice including destination: $13,591

2007 Yaris Hatchback with comparable equipment, MSRP including destination: $15,075

Plus the Accent has a 6-speaker stereo (vs. 4), 8-way adjustable driver's seat with dual height adjustments (Yaris has no height adjuster), 16" alloys vs. 15", sport suspension including front and rear antiroll bars, and a few other features not on the Yaris such as leather steering wheel and shifter, heated mirrors, dual lighted vanity mirrors, variable intermittant wipers, 4-wheel disc brakes, and full gauges including tach and temperature. Also, a sunroof and CD changer with cassette are available--and the invoice price with those options is still less than the MSRP price of the Yaris. Plus the Accent has a longer warranty (Yes, I know, you don't like long warranties. I do, especially if I don't pay extra for them.)

IMO the Accent at invoice (let alone below invoice) is a better value than the Yaris at MSRP.

tjw1308 · September 2006

Alright, we'll trade in or sell our cars in 3 years and see who got the better "value" then.

My point wasn't that you can't get more fluff, it was that even WITH all of the fluff and discounts and rebates, you still will come out ahead financially in a Fit or Yaris, thus making it a better value for your money. And that was the sticking point of not wanting to pay MSRP

The reason why Hyundai offers the warranty they do is because they HAVE to... Otherwise the public just wouldn't trust their product. It's not out of the goodness of their hearts.

We can argue all we want about it only being perception, but at the end of 3 years, I will have a 3 year old Toyota and you (would/will) have a 3 year old Hyundai.

You could also make the argument that you're going to drive it until the wheels fall off. Almost EVERYONE says that. In reality, if you're a new car buyer, the nationwide average length of ownership is less than 4 years.

When you go to trade it in, it won't matter how technically superior it is. It still has that crooked H on the hood

BTW, I in no way think Hyundai's a bad company or car, it's just that perception rules the marketplace, and dollar for dollar, the best value is something that KEEPS it's value. I know a lot of people very happy with them. I also know a lot of people trying desperately to get OUT of them. Until that changes, Toyota and Honda will always be a better value for your $$$.

T

kneisl1 · September 2006

Is it true that Hyundai has one of the WORST repair records in CR?

backy · September 2006

No, actually it has one of the better repair records. You are probably thinking of Mercedes-Benz, or VW, or maybe the US-based automakers.

kneisl1 · September 2006

Better than Honda or Toyota?

backy · September 2006

No, but that's not what you said originally, or what I said, is it?

If it's worth a lot of money to you to own a car that has some more red circles in CR's reliability survey results, it's your money. We know from recent history that those extra red circles won't make cars free of defects and recalls.

Anybody want to talk about the Yaris instead of relative value vs. competitors? The Low End Sedans discussion would be an ideal place for that I think.

nippononly · September 2006

is a really nice piece - well put together with excellent handling and a nicer interior (I was in one recently). I would choose it over the comparably priced Yaris, given that the Yaris would have less equipment, less niceties (show me that leather-wrapped steering wheel and heated side mirrors, and let's just try to forget as quickly as possible the crappy rubber accordion boot that the Yaris's manual shifter wears, which is straight out of the 70s and will crack within 3 or 4 years just like they did back then), and worse handling.

Unfortunately, you can't get factory cruise on the Accent SE either. While this is a sticking point for me, I understand that it wouldn't be for many.

Now on the basement bargain side, I think I would go with the Yaris with convenience package rather than the lower-trim Accents, which I am a lot less impressed with, in the new model.

kneisl1 · September 2006

You were talking up the merits of Hyundai above. In fact you were seeming to claim Hyundai has more repeat buyers than Toyota! In the Yaris section. Well its only fair to mention Hyundais poorer reliability ratings in CR.

tjw1308 · September 2006

Not only that, but you do realize that Hyundai's go through auction/trade at 3-4000 BELOW whatever book value you may use right? I could publish something saying the Yaris was worth MORE than what I paid for it, but I'm not the one actually BUYING it for that, so it's irrelevant.

It's the primary reason why some salespeople run when they see a customer pull up in a newer non-rental Hyundai/KIA. Book SAYS it's worth X, but in the real world of cars it's worth Y. Pull some Manheim auction reports if you need further proof...

As for the repeat customer factor, remember Toyota outsells Hyundai by a more than 20 to 1 margin worldwide. When you have that broad a slice of customers, a lot of them are people that will always brand jump, not because of dissatisfaction, but because people like to try different things. When you sell THAT many more vehicles it's more pronounced.

Also, people are forced to return to Hyundai (or a domestic with large rebates) because with their resale value they have little choice in the matter. There are large banks that won't even FINANCE a Hyundai or a KIA! They're probably just imagining the resale problem too lol...

Just for giggles, I went and checked out an Accent last night. I have to admit, it's pretty nice. Never said it wasn't. It is most definitely smaller on the inside than my Yaris though. I'm a taller guy, so interior room makes a big difference... The Accent still FEELS like a sub-compact on the inside. The Yaris surprises everyone I take for a ride with it's legroom/headroom/hiproom.

Gas-mileage, reliability, resale, and comfort would have sold me on the Yaris though, had I been considering choosing between the two.

Hyundai is less reliable than Toyota. Broad statement? Ask a random 100 people if they agree.

T

backy · September 2006

In fact you were seeming to claim Hyundai has more repeat buyers than Toyota!

I claimed nothing of the sort. Please re-read my post. I suggested that it would be worthwhile to compare the percentage of people who are repeat buyers of Hyundais to the percentage of repeat buyers of Toyotas. The difference is not very big.

dkarsch · September 2006

What his teenage daughter wants and the reality of what she drives are two different things. If her only option is a Hyundai then she'll be happy with it.

My son is driving a 98 Cirrus that I recently picked up for him and he has no complaints.

tjw1308 · September 2006

Comparing TMV here on Edmunds, a base 2007 Accent GS Manual with A/C and a radio is $12122.00 TMV.

A 2007 Yaris Manual with a radio (A/C is standard), is $12370.00 TMV.

I'll take my Toyota less $250.00 thank you very much...

It's an ECONOMY car for Pete's sake. It's designed to do two things: get you from point A to point B and do it with the most gas mileage possible. Darn near everything in excess of A/C and a basic radio IS a luxury in this segment.

No matter how much lipstick you put on a Hyundai... it's still a Hyundai.

T

bamacar · September 2006

Hyundai today is about what Toyota and Honda was in 1980. The cars were good in a lot of ways, but the perception was they were inferior to the Big 3.

Now Hyundai is almost as good as Toyota and Honda, but they are still thought of as inferior. If the Toyota and Honda example holds then the Hyundais sold today are a true bargain. Cheaper sales prices and solid resale values will follow in less than 5 years. We can only watch and see.

tjw1308 · September 2006

I agree almost 100%.

The only thing I'd add is that neither Toyota or Honda had to overcome an absolutely atrocious beginning like Hyundai had.

There are a lot of people that won't ever forget the Excel or the Scoupe when they think Hyundai. Maybe the US wasn't ready, but the cars didn't inspire a lot of good-will, and that wasn't TOO long ago.

If they continue for a while (I think even 5 years is a bit soon) without a major glitch, perhaps they'll catch up in perception and resale "value".

Until then, you can't deny Toyota/Honda's dominance in protecting as much of their cars "value" as possible.

T

kneisl1 · September 2006

A friend bought a 93 Hyundai. He had nothing but trouble with it. In fact, he had it for six years and only put 36,000 miles on it before it became a total disaster. We often went together to junkyards looking for parts. If you frequent junkyards you know they have sections for each brand of car. The Hyundai section was by far the largest! In fact the Hyundais in a row looked brand new (they were!) Their engines were all defective and the cars were junked prematurely! I have heard that Hyundai never could fix its own engine and instead bought the rights to a no longer made Mitsubishi engine.

backy · September 2006

That was 13 years ago. At that time Hyundai had only the first-generation Sonata and 2nd-generation Excel (and Scoupe coupe version) to sell. Now they have the fourth-generation Sonata, the fifth-generation Accent (replaced the Excel name, for obvious reasons), etc.

Also, while Hyundai used Mitsubishi engines way back then, they have been using their own engines for many years. Now, Mitsubishi (also DCX) uses engines designed by Hyundai. The world has changed a lot in 13 years.

kneisl1 · September 2006

I looked at the Hyundai when I bought my ECHO. The only thing the Hyundai won on was price. Build quality, fuel comsumption, and overall design went to the ECHO. (youd be comfortable in a Hyundai if you were 5'6")
Yes you are absolutely right a lot has changed in 13 years. A Hyundai is very nearly the same price as a Toyota now.

backy · September 2006

And you bought your ECHO when? And you compared it to which Hyundai? Was it the current Accent model, which was redesigned for 2006? (The previous Accent debuted in 1999. Even so, it managed to best the ECHO in a comparo done by MT awhile back.)

I drove the ECHO before buying my first Elantra in late 2000. The ECHO was frankly a tin box compared to the Elantra, and was a cramped, stripped car compared to a nicely equipped car with mid-sized room. The panel gaps on the ECHO, especially around the doors, were appalling. The interior felt cheap, with flimsy sun visors that bent in my hand. The Elantra even cost less. The only advantage the ECHO had on the Elantra was fuel economy, and Toyota's reputation for dependability and resale value. I was very satisfied with the mpg I got on the car, considering its power (135 hp), room, and comfort compared to the ECHO. The Elantra was also very reliable. I've already talked about the resale part.

If you consider $1500-2000 before rebates and discounts "very nearly the same price", that's fine. I consider it a significant difference though.

w9cw · September 2006

Backy, it's no use to debate with someone who is a loyal Toyota fan, after all this is a Toyota Yaris thread. Hyundai could now manufacture a Lexus disguised in Korean clothing, and it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.

What is important, however, is gleaning experience from people who have actually OWNED recent Hyundais, as well as other marques. As I've stated in other threads, I've owned Accords, Civics, Camrys, Corollas, Mazdas, and a bunch of higher priced European cars, and the Hyundai I presently own is equal to or better than any of them with regard to build quality and reliability. This comes from an objective analyisis from experience, which is always the best teacher. Unless one has owned a current Hyundai, you really don't have the credibility to discuss pros and cons of one marque over the other. It's "ain't" 1993 anymore.

And, as backy has stated, for those who keep a car for over 10 years or more, depreciation rate and resale value is really a moot point.

nippononly · September 2006

in the styling wars, the Accent SE wins hands down. Where the Yaris l/b is "cute", the Accent SE is very slick, very tight, with the little bit of body kit it carries and the 16s with the (50-series, 45-series?) tires.

How could they make a moonroof optional on that thing and not cruise? Heck, it has heated mirrors for under $15K! And yet, no factory cruise. But drive it, and you will have no doubt it is FAR from 1993.

Now as far as longevity, I am in the wait-and-see crowd myself. See what Hyundai's rate-of-repair surveys look like in 2010, and you will have sold me if they are as strong as Toyota's. If that is the case, I see their resale issue (just going by KBB there) going bye-bye by then also.

nippononly · September 2006

I think an impasse has been reached here guys. Just one opinion.

Too bad Hyundai and Toyota don't offer their smallest hatchbacks as a 5-door in addition to the 3-door.

I have been seeing a fair number of Kia Rio5s around though - I think the 5-door is a much more popular configuration overall than the 3-door.

Oh, will Toyota and Honda ever start to build more of their smallest hatchbacks? The Fit waiting list has grown beyond six months now at my local dealership. As for the Yaris l/b, forget it. Buy it the way they send it, or wait forever and maybe longer.

My local dealer has a blue automatic right now that no-one wants - it is the basic model, not even a convenience package. I think potential buyers must get into the driver's seat and see that big black panel where the radio should be, and go looking for something else.

backy · September 2006

Toyota and Hyundai do offer their smallest hatchbacks as 5-doors--just not in the U.S.

w9cw · September 2006

Yes, I think it's time for both to step back a bit, and take a deep breath. No one is going to win this debate, because: 1). Again, it's a Toyota forum, and 2). one of the participants works for a Toyota dealership. So, I think it's not worth the effort Backy.

Toyota, its dealers, and all of their respective employees (direct or indirect) fear Hyundai as stated months ago by the CEO of Toyota. So, unfortunately, it's readily apparent in this thread that some choose to bash Hyundai. It's the same tactic that Ford and GM used when Honda and Toyota appeared on the scene in the '60s and '70s. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

I was once a new car salesman for a domestic manufacturer, and one of the tenants I was taught was to never bash or downgrade your competition. It's not only unethical, but unprofessional. Consumers see through this tactic, and the salesperson loses credibility. Good sales staff let the product speak for itself.

backy · September 2006

Yes, it is and should be a Yaris discussion. But when people make challenges like, Show me a car that's a better value than the Yaris!, they shouldn't be surprised when they get a response. In that case, a simple, "OK, that might be a better value for you but not for me because I look for different things in a car", without the bashing, is sufficient.

w9cw · September 2006

I understand. I was attempting to not only support your argument, but bring the discussion back to the center, or its roots, a bit. I wonder how many Toyota salespersons have owned a recent Hyundai, and have objective experience with the brand. Probably not many, perhaps even zero.

autoboy16 · September 2006

Since this confirmed as the last year for the xa, any chance of a 5door yaris hatchback?

-Cj :confuse:

backy · September 2006

Do you mean, the last year for the current xA or the xA in general? Toyota already has a 5-door Yaris they can bring to the U.S. (it's in Canada now) anytime they want. Or maybe that will be the new xA, with some styling tweaks...

w9cw · September 2006

tjw1308 wrote: "It becomes a vicious cycle of burying negative equity."

I don't intend to get into a debate with you, as you obviouly not only have a preconceived mindset, but an agenda. This will be my last post, as I have better things to do with my time.

But, I will say this: I've bought primarily foreign cars since 1964, and I've had fewer problems with the Hyundai I currently own than any other car, including Honda and Toyota. Plus, the dealer, and Hyundai corporate, are more interested in my satisfaction than any others I've ever experienced. I can park my Hyundai next to your Yaris or Camry, and the panel and seam matching and gap consistency, for example, will be superior to either Toyota. This is not hyperbole, this is a proven fact, as I've compared them on the lot.

Just a few of the new cars I've owned in over 40 years of driving include: Audi, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Porsche, SAAB, Toyota, and Volvo. I think I can objectively speak about build-quality and long-term reliability.

And, to address your point of Capital One, I'm not your normal Hyundai, nor any other marque, buyer - I don't finance, I pay cash for all vehicle purchases.

tjw1308 · September 2006

I can appreciate that.

As you said, you're not a normal buyer though. The only thing I'd add is that despite your broad ownership history, my point was that on the WHOLE, Toyota stastically is more dependable than Hyundai.

I have compared gap tolerances before too. I did it last week when I drove the Accent. The Yaris is tighter. Even the Hyundai salesperson said that (and we had them parked side by side btw...).

It's a matter of perception, and what you have is mindset of your own. Nothing wrong with that.

My "agenda" is rooted solely in the opinion (and yes Backy, that's all yours is too) that the Toyota is a better value. Mainly because it's better on gas, more reliable, and holds it's value better...

Talk about a conspiracy :P

T

explorerx4 · September 2006

can i assume that the sienna is inferior because it now offers factory 0% for 48 months financing? how is that going to help 'holdng value'? yaris could be next. hard to tell.

nippononly · September 2006

to get a chuckle from all this - don't you two realize that you are both making declarations as "FACT" that are in fact heavily opinionated? :-P

And tjw, you have told everyone before that you are a Toyota salesman, haven't you? That shouldn't be a secret.

And backy, while a staunch fan of Korean cars, is pretty fair-minded when it comes to all brands. For evidence of that, just look to his posts in the "Members' test drive forum", or whatever it is called, over in N&V.

Give it up people! Hyundais have a perception problem that is fading slowly, year by year, as they pump out vehicles with consistent quality and increasing desirability.

Meanwhile, Toyota continues to pump out what it always has - solid, durable, well-built little transportation appliances priced above their peers (when comparably equipped) and with more equipment-stripping than any other manufacturer in the biz today, except maybe Chevy with its own Korean-sourced models. Having said that, Toyota does NOT have the honor of selling the most expensive car in America that doesn't even come standard with a radio or A/C - that very dubious honor goes to Honda with the Civic DX at around $15K sticker.

HOWEVER, and please check me on this but I believe it is correct, Toyota DOES have the only-slightly-less-dubious honor of selling the only car (Yaris) without a standard defroster in the rear glass...

As for 5-door Yarii, I would LOVE to see it come here, but next year the xA will be replaced by the all-new Ractis (probably will still be called xA in America though, I would imagine), which is a subcompact 5-door with odd styling kind of like the Renault Megane, with that backwards-and-upwards-sloping rear glass. Kind of funky, kind of cool. So I imagine that Toyota will probably STILL keep the Yaris 5-door from us. Sigh.

tjw1308 · September 2006

Strangely enough, Hawaii (where they rented a HECK of a lot of Echo's... not sure about the Yaris yet) had the bulk of Echo's without rear defrosters.

I noticed that too when we got a few Echo's in from the Toyota auction. Sure enough, every one of the little gals without a defroster was originally used in Hawaii.

Odd, but interesting...

T

ykang · September 2006

The biggest problem of Toyota cars and Lexus cars is that they are severly overpriced. People need to think outside of a box.When soccer moms realize there are other cars out there other than Toyota and Honda,things will be changed. But I don't think it will happen soon.

kneisl1 · September 2006

Me neither!

lhanson · September 2006

I have you figured out now Becky and I am about to "out you". The only person in Minnesota that is semi-retired and has as much time on his hands as you do and likes to get under peoples skin like you do is Jesse Ventura. When you are not posting on Edmunds, you are probably singing the praises of the Vikings on a Packer board. By the way, on what party's ticket will you be running for president in '08?

backy · September 2006

How many 2006 Hyundai's have incentives?

All of them--it is the end-of-year clearance time, isn't it. As expected, the most fuel-efficient cars (Accent and Elantra) have the lowest incentives--just $1000, quite a bit below what they have been in the past at this time. $1000 off a six-year-old model that is being replaced next month doesn't sound too high to me. But I am biased, right?

How many 2006 Toyotas have incentives? Let's see... in my area it's

Sienna
Sequoia
Highlander
4Runner
Tacoma
Tundra
Avalon
Camry Solara

No doubt the Camry would be on this list too if the 2007 hadn't debuted so early in the year.

nippononly · September 2006

No, it won't take another ten years. In 2010, the post-Y2K Hyundais will be older than the average age of the fleet. If they are still holding up well and are still well-sought in the used car market, that will do wonders for Hyundai resale and new car sales too.

Hyundai will face other challenges before then, though, and may see declining sales: for one, the domestics have been making their way back to the new millennium on the quality and reliability fronts, and are even gradually evolving to have more desirable vehicles. Add to that their new extended warranties (60K Ford, 100K GM), and equal cost relative to today's Hyundai, and the Koreans still have their work cut out for them.

As for Toyotas and Hondas being overpriced, they have been HIGHER priced for quite some time now, well over a decade in fact. For much of that time, they have been worth the differential. I would agree that they are not as much any more (because the quality and durability differential between ToyHons and other brands has decreased a lot, but the price differential has not), but to call them SEVERELY overpriced would be going too far IMO. You still get a lot for your (extra) money.

kneisl1 · September 2006

A Yaris is over priced?

tjw1308 · September 2006

I wouldn't say OVER priced, but I think I agree with most that think the Corolla is a better value than a loaded up Yaris...

The base Yaris is an exceptional value (in terms of reliability, resale, gas-mileage...), for what it is intended to do.

For the the record, I've always looked at the Yaris as basic transportation. I know there are a lot of "fluff" options I'd like having, but don't really need (like power windows/locks, heated mirrors, 8 way adjustable seat...).

But then again, just like reliability and warranty mean entirely different things to different people, so do price and value...

T

jacksan1 · September 2006

next year the xA will be replaced by the all-new Ractis (probably will still be called xA in America though, I would imagine), which is a subcompact 5-door with odd styling kind of like the Renault Megane, with that backwards-and-upwards-sloping rear glass.

Not so fast. The JDM xA is called the IST. The rumor mill in Japan says that Toyota will rename this IST to whatever for the next generation. If the next xA (xD?) is going to be based on the next-generation IST, then it cannot be the Ractis because Toyota will not rename the Ractis.

In addition, well-informed sources in Japan are saying that the next xA (xD) will be in Japan's "3-number" size, meaning that it will exceed the width of 1,700mm. The Ractis is a "5-number" car with the width of 1,695mm. So if these sources are right, then it (xA or xD) will at least not have the same dimensions as the Ractis.

nippononly · September 2006

I know all of that. I am saying that Toyota will be moving away from the ist for the next-gen xA. And I a merely echoing a prognostication by Autoweek that was published recently, along with a whole lot of rumors bouncing around other websites before that publication. It could well be that they will stick with the ist, and do two new models - either way, I think they want a bigger car, because I am sure they are going to supersize the next Matrix to the size of the '96 RAV4 (regardless of what they call it after the redo), and they need something bigger and hatchbacked to slot in under it in the Toyota scheme. It would be nice to see tham offer 3 hatchbacks ranging in size up to the next Matrix.

kneisl1 - many Toyotas are a little bit overpriced, yes. Is the Yaris? Well, $12,000 for a car with no rear defroster and no radio gets me thinking my value quotient has diminished, yes. And it's not like they are not building so-equipped cars, in fact they seem to be in a production run right now where lots of them are coming out. I would call the rear defroster a safety issue: if you can't clear the back glass then you can't see out, which is a safety issue.

I would say the same if they had gone back to making the right outside mirror optional, and only available as part of a convenience package that costs more than $600.

Toyota obviously stripped the base Yaris beyond the point of reason so that it could answer the HyunKia ads by trumpeting a lower base price than either, and that is a bit of an affront from a company that wants you to think it is a safety and environmental leader. It's 2006, and this car has no ABS, no supplemental airbags, no traction or stability control. Some of those items are not even optional, the others are extremely difficult to actually procure.

It truly leads one to think that time has stood still since 1975 in some ways (the only exception being that it does, in fact, have a standard outside right mirror). Now of course, under the skin it most certainly hasn't - the car's structure is much better able to withstand collisions, the engine produces much lower emissions, and it makes the durability of even Toyotas from the 70s look pretty poor.

But the Yaris is a basic transportation appliance built by a company that seems hell-bent these last few years on giving you JUST ENOUGH, never any extra, for your extra dough. The options lists on all the models are extensive, always including stuff other companies will include as standard for a lower price. Plus at Toyota, these options are usually bundled in (in some cases) very expensive packages, rather than being available individually to more suit individual buyers' preferences.

Actually, I think the Echos were more overpriced than the Yaris is, but at least back then an optional rear defroster and power steering was a little more tenable because it was, well, back then, years ago.

And yes, I have an Echo because its flyweight nature particularly appeals to me. But I know that's not everyone's cup of tea. And no, I am NOT saying that Toyotas in general are a sucky value. But are they overpriced? Yes, a little. If the cost-cutting at Toyota continues, then they will become a little more overpriced with every passing year. Value is not measured by resale alone, it is also measured by how you feel about what you got vs how much you paid.

Toyota Yaris

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