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Porsche 911



  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    The high road it is, and share our passion we will. It just seem to me that the few comments made about Pand D were not what you would expect from people who can afford these cars. It was unfair to him and the continued baggering was more than unfair. What followed resulted from frayed nerves. Unfortunately I've seen just this type of activity here on the board months ago that were also unfair and childish. Voice an opinion that is contrary to the majority on this forum and it seems to stir up the pot quite quickly. You know what they say about opinions.....

    Catch ya,
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    It has been all 997 around here. That's cool, but is anyone into the older babies?
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    Hi designman:

    Actually I have been interested in shopping for a 993. A neighbour of mine has a red cab and it looks great. Visually it seems smaller than the 997 and I find the 993 to be the most visually pleasing of all the 911. Anyone, please chim in and give us your opinions and experiences on your 993.


  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Maybe we should start another thread to talk about the older ones. I don’t want to upset the karma around here among the 997 owners which has been good.

    Anyway, yes, the 993 is extremely popular and I am interested in one also. The problem is that I am interested in many older ones starting with 930s and 3.2 Carreras. I actually started out shopping 993 cabs and wound up with an 02 Boxster S which I currently have and am thoroughly in love with also. I am thinking of selling the Boxster and getting a different old Porsche every year. Ideally I’d like to get a different house with at least a three-car garage so I can keep two old Porsches at once, but my wife is not excited about the idea, so for now it will be one at a time.

    The historical aspect of Porsche is so cool and there is a lot of involvement out there. I thought I’d be into a 997 this year but the older ones keep beckoning. I tell you one thing, if I come across the right 993 Turbo, I just might have a hard time turning it down. However, it might be good to go with a 3.2 first so I don't get spoiled by the power.
  • I thought I’d be into a 997 this year but the older ones keep beckoning. I tell you one thing, if I come across the right 993 Turbo, I just might have a hard time turning it down.

    You need to meet my brother. He owns a pristine 1996 993 Turbo 4. And, I have to admit, it is both extraordinarily beautiful and a great embelishment of what Porsche is all about. It is a deep maroon metallic that looks like it radiates in the right light. From the "Ultimate History of Porsche" by Stuart Gallagher:

    "Some say that with the introduction of the water-cooled 911 in 1997 the 911's soul was destroyed. If that is true, then there was no better way for the air-cooled generation to sign off than with the ultimate air-cooled 911, the 993-generation Turbo 4."

    For what it's worth, even though he drives it regularly, it is maintained in show quality condition and would sell for well over $100,000. He was casually offered $125,000 for it at the Pebble Beach show last year - and it wasn't even entered!

    Good luck in your quest.
  • I have been an activist for the design and engineering of the 914 once I was able to drive, some 30 years ago. Though they have been dubbed"The ugly duckling of all porsche" the design, the low center of gravity.. it just makes perfect sense.
  • Yet, without water cooling... how could Porsche achieve 480 BHP from a boxer engine? Change is the only constant in life. Once my warranty runs out, I plan to install the larger VTG's, the bigger exhuast system and upgrade the software on my 07 997 turbo to pull 606 BHP... if not more.
  • Nothing can compare to the sound of those twin turbines sucking wind and the feel of your body being pressed solidly back against your sport seat as the road ahead seems to leap at you in a quantum manner.. to say it isnt worth the money to purchase a 07 997 turbo is to say you would rather buy a ticket for a roller coaster and enjoy the ride only once.
  • For some reason, and I am not sure why yet, many wives do not understand the bond between man and machine...:-)

    I say build the three car garage as I have, keep two old Porches' and save one bay for restoration of your next acqusition , as I do.
  • Did you purchase your expensive car to impress people?
    did you buy it because you are in a mid life crisis?
    or did you buy it because you desire speed and performance to which there is no equivalence?

    I have been a porsche owner.. of many many models, for over 30 years now. I buy them to drive them. I drive them to push the envelope. To travel at .33 the speed of sound is an amazing thing if you ever get the chance. I think anyone who loves speed should get that chance at least once.

    thus ends my diatribe.

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Seriously considering an '07, just cannot decided between a base and an "S".

    I now have an '07 C2S Cab, but I placed the very first deposit on a '97 Boxster... I placed it in 1994! Most of the folks at the dealership didn't even know what I was talking about. With the Boxster's first debut, there was no S variant, and while the car had incredible handling, and produced ear-to-ear smiles with its exhaust howl at upper RPM's, I can tell you that more power would have been most welcomed. The later S was a natural for the Boxster.

    I continue to believe that once you've got the model Porsche picked out that you want, and the body style (Coupe, Cabriolet, etc.), at that point you should opt for the most power you can get.

    In fact, some might even suggest that you first get as much power as you want, and THEN go with the body style choices that would be available.

    I loved that original '97 Boxster, but it sorely lacked enough power for my tastes. I recently purchased a Lotus Elise Sport and I can tell you that few cars on the planet can out-handle it in the twisties. Lotus just introduced the '07 Exige S with even more power, and I know that it will be a superb handling car. However, after a while I couldn't stand the brutal punishing harsh ride that went along with the Lotus. Thus, traded in towards the Carrera S Cabriolet.

    I strongly encourage you to consider getting the S, even if just for those special moments that you will be glad to have that extra power. There is no really good reason to deliberately limit the power that is available to you, unless there are financial constraints. Otherwise, get the "S", my friend and enjoy it.

  • Remind your wife of the Irish saying, "You're here for a good time, not a long time".
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    The 993 may be THE Porsche 911 to own (and I'd love to own one), but right now, the 996 is the best bang for the buck.

    I'd also love to own a 997, but with low mileage 996's going for the mid-$30K's, I have to say a 996 with a set of PSS9's is tough to walk away from (I doubt a 997 could walk away from one).

    $35,000 is a lot to spend on prettier headlights and a nicer dashboard.
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107

    I had an interesting experience today. Being Saturday, the opportunity for a drive in the Porsche put me out on the highway about 1pm. Sunny, clear and medium traffic. I have a bit of highway and freeway that I like to drive and a very clear lightly traveled road that I can pick up the speed a bit without worry of being followed ( or radar tagged ). Things just did not feel right! Shifting was uneven , down shifting was a bit difficult and I really was not in tune with my " Machine " I think today, I have come to realize that as with many other things, you have to be in tune... with your car to get the most of it.I have noticed that if I push the Porsche and shift when the revs are a little higher especially after 4500 rpm, this car acts like a sling shot. This car, I've come to realize, can be played like a violin.. if your good that day it sounds great , otherwise it's a fiddle. Anyway my 2 cents and a great learning experience for me.

  • I fully agree. Man and machine must become one in order to be able to fully use all of your senses in tune with the car to maximize it's performance and the smile on your face. If you arent "On the ball" one morning and you "Forget" the type of machine you are driving, you stand a good chance of either pissing other drivers off or , at the very least, scaring the hell out of yourself. Not many drivers can put an AWD, 480 HP car into a full drift with 4 feet of rubber on the road and control it for any period of time, as you can with a rear wheel drive car. To do this, you must be fully integrated with your machine. As I tell anyone who wants a ride in my car with me, " Buckle up and strap down anything lose, I am not a driver, I am a pilot!" :-)
  • I can still vividly recall my frst porsche, a 1973 914 1.8 Litre which I purchased used for around 2K. It was a solid car with no rust but it had the well documented problem of under-enginered fuel mixture dynamics and it was very reasy to cause the valves to float, due to poor quality valve springs. I tore her completely down and rebuilt her, changing the intake from the poorly designed VW Injection system to a set of 4 carbs and air ram tubes, new cams and replaced every seal, bushing, bearing and all the pushrods and tubes in her. In the end, I had a 1.8 litre VW motor which was pushing nearly 180 BHP. Now I remind you that this was in the mid 1970's... when technology and understanding were just coming together. I plan to to this again... thisw time with a 2.4 Litre bu I will either supercharge or fit dual turbo chargers with corresponding intercoolers. Obviusly this will be a track only car and I will not be restoring it to win the concourse. I have and will always love the 914 because of reaqsons previously stated... just as I will always love my brandy new 997 turbo. It is the allure, the history and our dream to build that 3 second car the drives us, that keeps us alive, that gives us cause to try and try again.

    I drove my first 914 until the day she ate a valve, piston, connecting rod and ultimately the crankshaft. It did have Magnesium alloy rims which I had managed to keep until just a few years ago when my wife decided she would throw them out when I wasnt looking... a decision that will forever haunt her :-)

  • "I have been a porsche owner.. of many many models, for over 30 years now. I buy them to drive them. I drive them to push the envelope. To travel at .33 the speed of sound is an amazing thing if you ever get the chance. I think anyone who loves speed should get that chance at least once.

    thus ends my diatribe."

    Diatribe away if you must, but you might want to lighten up on the caffeine, Jack Daniels, or both. As a fellow 997 Turbo owner, I don't want to burst your bubble. But as somwone who has also piloted an F15 at Mach 1.8 and 7.0 g's, I know that Mach 0.33 is 255 +/- mph. There isn't a Porsche made that can achieve that speed and the highest you would likely get your 911 up to on a track is about 100 mph less - assuming you are a lot better at driving than you are at math. ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 58,496
    Amazing as it sounds, Germans were going that fast testing their race cars on the autobahn in the late 1930s. I think one Auto Union car actually pushed 260. Geez, did these guys have guts or what? :P

    So the tradition of speedy cars in Germany is no accident.

    Not sure what the fastest production in the world that you can actually walk into a showroom and buy is, but I'd guess about 225 mph is it, if anyone short of a real professional has the skill to go that fast.

    155 is good enough for me.

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  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Diatribe away if you must, but you might want to lighten up on the caffeine, Jack Daniels, or both.......Mach 0.33 is 255 +/- mph. There isn't a Porsche made that can achieve that speed.....

    Hey, spirit.... good post, my friend. I got a good chuckle out of it. Yes, facts are facts.

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    If you load a 911 Turbo into a C17, climb up to 10,000', and then drop it out the ramp, it'll go at least that fast :P
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "If you load a 911 Turbo into a C17, climb up to 10,000', and then drop it out the ramp, it'll go at least that fast"

    I don't think even that would do it. A buddy of mine from my college days who was a seasoned skydiver indicated the highest (vertical) speed a human could attain by going into a perfect diving position was about 170 mph (same as a falcon). That's compared to a terminal velocity of around 130 mph for me flopping around like a chicken. And that 170 mph speed was fast enough to catch up to a falling vehicle pushed out of the back of a cargo plane, if you recall from some of those crazy TV ad's and/or "Mythbuster" episodes.

    As for the Autobahn speeds, they happened to have a special on the History Channel recently and it's true, the land speed record, for awhile anyway, was set on the Autobahn at something like 250 mph (by one of those rocket shaped Mercedes, I believe). It utilized about 8 miles of the road to achieve that feat. But further attempts were halted after a crash that killed the record holder and nearly took out one of the overpasses.

    My friend that had a 2001 996 TT modified to 520 hp / 520 ft-lbs at the wheels ran a 10.xx quarter mile and 3.2 +/- second 0-60. Yet the highest speed he ever took his car to on a track (Summit Point, WV) was around 145 and he is an extremely accomplished driver. Although his car was theoretically capable of around 195-200 mph at the Bonneville Salt Flats, the distance needed to get up to top speed would have been at least 2-3 miles.

    So, in the spirit of the TV series, I'd have to agree that any claim of Mach 0.33 is, indeed "Busted". Perhaps it was just a joke to see if any of us were paying attention. ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    ...any claim of Mach 0.33 is, indeed "Busted". Perhaps it was just a joke to see if any of us were paying attention.

    Well, spiritinthesky gets the kudos for paying good attention. I wonder how many of the rest of us would have really caught this. As sharp as I like to think I might be, I'll admit I never would have caught it. I'll be more careful from now on... especially on my way to work in the mornings as I travel at warp 2. ;)

  • The last time I checked, the sped of sound is completely reliant on the altitude... none the less, yet another porsche owner has been dissed and leaves this board with a bad taste in his mouth for the people who seem to run this board.

    This board, like any other, is much akin to a book.. if you dont like it, simply shut the cover and dispose of it.

    Consider yourselves disposed of.
  • Last time I checked, YOU were running this board. 11 out of the last 30 posts, the other 19 were distributed among 13 other members, none with more than 3 posts. Nothing wrong with that, just being accurate. As for the speed of sound being completely reliant upon altitude, you might want to re-check that one. From Wikopedia:

    "The speed varies depending on atmospheric conditions; the most important factor is the temperature. Humidity has little effect on the speed of sound, nor does air pressure per se".

    So yes, if you're up there driving your 997 Turbo next to me in an F15 at 40,000 feet, with the air temperature a nice perky 50 degress below zero (Farenheight), you'd be hitting Mach 0.33 at only about 230 mph, not 255. Unfortunately, going to a high desert test track or air strip where it might be a bit balmier and easier to test that turbo's top speed, you are going to need to go even faster than 255 to hit your Mach 0.33. :(

    Try to lighten up. You were clearly going off the deep end and I tried to humorously throw you a rope. If you want to throw it back, that's up to you, but it's not our loss. ;)
  • chrmdomechrmdome Posts: 107
    Man , I got a good laugh out of that, ya, scare the hell out of yourself..that is no fun. A little too much drift is not what my 57 year old reflexes are used never the less.Maybe a little bit more caffine before my next drive. Thanks for the chuckle...

  • Habitat1 and others, what do you think the selling price should be on a new, repeat new, '06 997 C2 Coupe in Atlas Grey with a MSRP of 89K? The options are minimal but include Atlas Grey metallic paint, Bose, wood shifting knob and some wood trim inside, and power seats. No Sports Chrono, adaptive seats, etc. As I recall it might even be a C2S (the brake rotors were painted red. Is this a tip off that it is the S?).

    The color commbination (Atlas Grey with standard beige leather interior) looks good to my eyes and I wonder why it hasn't sold. (They had a 997 coupe in green with a beige interior that I also thought looked good. They couldn't sell that one for years! I guess that the Porsche market is green adverse.)

    The authorized dealer that has it has a backlog of '06s to sell and his opening discounted price in casual conversation was 79K.

    If a Warren Buffet or a Sam Zell were to analyze this, they would ask what a CPOed '06 with this equipment and in these colors would sell for? They would then try to grab this new-old stock car for that price. What do you think? Is there any factory money "in the trunk" to the dealers on these '06's?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    First of all, I hope that "minimally optioned" C2 is indeed a C2S, for that MSRP. Edmunds doesn't show MSRP's for 2006 any more, but a 2007 C2S w/ power seats, bose & Atlas Grey is $87,095, not including any "cosmetic" options.

    At this point in time, I would think a "good price" on this car by the dealer would be invoice, or even slightly less. That assumes it is indeed a "new" car and would have its in-service date and warranty start as of the day it is sold, not 12+/- months ago whenever they got or registered the car. Figuring a roughly 13% mark-up, invoice would be around $11.5k off MSRP. They are starting at $10k off, so they are at least being realistic.

    Forget what Warran Buffett or Sam Zell would do, do YOU really like this car? You can't be too serious, not even knowing for sure whether it is a base model or a $10k more expensive and much better equiped "S" model (zenon, 19" wheels, PASM, sport steering wheel, etc. all come along with the bigger 3.8 liter 355 hp engine). As best I can tell, the "cosmetic" options of wood shifter and interior are adding roughly $3,000+ to the MSRP. If these are options that you wouldn't order, they are adding to your cost, not your enjoyment and certainly not to resale. The comparison I would make would be against an ordered 2007. If, for example, you could get one at $6k off without those extra options, then getting $11k off with them is really only saving you a net $2k, not the $5k discount. That's a dilemma with almost any "in stock" car - it will inevitably have a few options that you don't want and/or missing one or two that you do (i.e. sport chrono on an "S"). In the case of my 2005 Cab S purchased in September 2005, the differential between my $10.8k discount and my best offer of $5k off a new, ordered 2006 more than made up for taking a few ($1,000) cosmetic items I could have done without. And I also saved $2,800 price increase from 2005 to 2006. I'm pretty sure in your case, the 2006 to 2007 price increase is quite a bit less, and we are now in February 2007, not September.

    Let us know if you turn serious on this one. I think you would be in pretty good negotiating position. You could always make out a check for $76k and see if they rip it up.

    P.S. I may be wrong, but I don't think Porsche does much to put money in the trunk of the car to help dealers sell leftover ones. Shame on the dealer for ordering an odd color combination with wood trim. It might be beauty to your eyes, but its a real hit or miss with the average 911 buyer. These are sports cars, not Bentleys.
  • as both new to the forum (which is great) , and a recent first time owner ---'06 c4 ( which i love more than any other car i've ever owned ) , i was hoping someone can give me additional insight into further winterization from these cold and snowy upstate ny winters. its been garaged since mid dec. , tires over-inflated to 50 pps , full tank of gas , and the trickle-charger. i had an uneventful "break-in" period,using some of the very helpful tips posted here, and was wondering if there was anything else you can recommend re" winterizing...the car hasnt been on the road,or even started up for that matter, in 1 1/2 months...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 58,496
    yeah -- make sure you have air ciculation around and under the car. This is especially critical if you store in a concrete or brick, rather than a wooden structure.

    Also, I prefer that the car NOT be covered, but rather just waxed well with perhaps a little WD-40 on the shiny trim pieces (very lightly coated)....or if you do use a cover, it must be a high-tech type that will BREATHE. A small fan under or near the car is a great idea.

    I'd also get the car out and on a ten mile drive if you have a really nice day.

    Your big enemy is condensation which can screw up electrical components under the hood as well as your interior.

    If the garage is heated, well that's just swell then.

    Otherwise, you've got the major bases covered I think. My only other concern is if you have rodent issues where you live. Duct-taping the tailpipe and air filter intake might not be a bad idea, and careful inspection every now and then to see if there are any little critters getting in there somehow.

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