Porsche 911

boxsterjeff · October 2005

That was too funny! I am ordering personalized plates and never plan to put them on front. There on no cops in Houston.I saw a yellow GT3 today in Yellow as well as a Carrera GT. I do like yellow, but I am sure the cops will love them too. Everybody like the adaptive seats?

tomtomtom · October 2005

I think in CA, once you lost one of the personal plates that combination cannot be reordered...forever.

habitat1 · October 2005

I am not sure anyone can authoritatively and accurately answer your question about the structural safety of a 911. And, for that matter, the correlation between crash test results and how cars fare in the "real world" is the subject of some debate.

I think it's safe to say that no 3,000 +/- lb sports car is going to hold up well in a head on collision with a 5,000+ lb SUV. Would you be better off in a 911 than an SLK? My gut tells me yes, but that's based more upon the significant decline in Mercedes' "bank vault" build quality than any objective data I've found.

On the subject of safety, however, I had my eyes opened recently to the value of knowing how to handle any vehicle to avoid accidents. A friend enrolled his 16 year old daughter in a 2-day $1,200 defensive driving course taught by professional drivers. Three weeks ago, driving to swim practivce before school at 6:00 a.m. in the dark, a deer ran into the road. She swung her used Ford Escape around it and maintained full control. The car following behind her swerved, lost control, went into a ditch and the driver was critically injured. My friend's daughter had the presence of mind to stop, call 911, return to the other driver and wait until the ambulance arrived.

It seems a lot of safety concerns are directed at how well the vehicle will fare in an accident. To their credit, many vehicles, Porsche at the top of the list, have sophisticated stability management, ABS, brake assist and other handling improvements to help avoid accidents. But, in my opinion, far too many drivers are fooling around with cell phones, navigation systems, I-pods and other things that distract them from their primary responsibility of paying attention to the road. I've been guilty of it myself on occasion.

After driving my 911 over 2,000 miles in it's first month, I am convinced that it is the best handling car I've ever owned and capable of avoiding accidents, including those that would be caused by the other guy. But safety is a two way responsibility between car and driver.

bsumner · October 2005

All safety points aside, the best part of having driven your 997S over 2,000 miles in its first month is that you're now out of the "break in" period!

habitat1 · October 2005

Thanks for noticing and amen to that!

carshopper36 · October 2005

I just picked up my 2006 997S last week from Carlsen's (California Bay Area). The only option on the car is the metallic paint. Lapris Grey is absolutely gorgeous on the 911 body,

They gave me $1500 off sticker and then at the last minute threw in the PermaPlate (about $900).

I think there is room now to ask for 2K off if you were to order a new one. The economy has softened a bit.

A friend of mine ordered the same car with about 10k worth of options. They gave him 3k off.

The car is fantastic. I only put 100 miles in the past week. Taking it to Sonoma this weekend. Can't wait till the break in period is over.

tomtomtom · October 2005

Congratulations! I contacted them back in May and they only offered $550 discount when I mentioned I am an AAA member. So I bought mine from another dealer at $2500 off. I think dealers are willing to give more discount now due to the economy as you mentioned.

1wanta997 · October 2005

I'm new to Porsche and plan on ordering and purchasing (not leasing) my 911. I am profoundly hearing impaired and do not use the radio at all (I would not hear the difference). My dealer is recommending that I get the Bose option anyway, as it will help me 'sell' the car when it's time to do so.

Any comments and or thoughts from THIS GREAT GROUP will be appreciated.

Regards, Harold

habitat1 · October 2005

Carshopper36,

What is "Lapris Grey"? I have Seal Grey. I've seen Lapris Blue. But even Porsche's "build your own" website doesn't list a Lapris Grey.

1wanta997,

I happen to really like the Bose sound system. However, for you to spend $1,390 for the upgrade when you won't be able to tell the difference, just to make the car easier to sell does not sound like a good investment, IMO. I seriously doubt that you will get all of your principal back, let alone a return on it. And it's not as though the standard "Sound Package Plus" system with 9 speakers isn't a decent system to begin with.

If I had to rank order options that I think would be most valuable upon resale, I'd probably put the $920 Sport Chrono package above the Bose system. The increased throttle response is a hoot to drive and the dash mounted chronograph, while a bit gimmicky, makes it visually obvious as to whether the car has this performance option or not. But I'd be willing to bet a lot of used 911's could be sold without the buyer necessarily knowing what sound system the car has in it.

1wanta997 · October 2005

habitat1,

That's a great comment about the Bose and your recommendation of the Sports Chrono.

Any comments on the power seat option (1 driver - 95% of the time) vs. the power seat; and the PASM on a C2 with 18" wheels.

I'd be curious to know the other "must haves" - (mine are the Bi- Xenon headlamps, Nav, heated seats, and (hate to say it) Tiptronic.

TIA, Harold

habitat1 · October 2005

I'll give my opinion based upon the options I have on my car. However, with the price of Porsche options, everyone needs to determine what is important to them, and it can be very subjective.

My car: 2005 997S Cabriolet - In addition to the base model standard features, the "S" adds as standard equipment the Xenons ($1,090), PASM ($1,990), 19" wheels ($1,550), sport steering wheel ($250). If you are planning on getting all of these additional items anyway ($4,880 total), the incremental cost of the "S" is about $5,120 for the larger 355 hp engine, brakes, etc. At that point, I would recommend seriously considering the S. The base 911 makes more sense if you are not planning on getting PASM and the 19" wheels, and then you would be saving closer to $8,500. Even in the base, however, I would strongly recommend the Xenons.

The options on my car, from most expensive to least:

Sport Exhaust System - $2,400: Ouch! This was the one option I wouldn't have ordered on a 2006. Press the "sport" button and the exhaust sound goes from timid to serious. Everbody that hears it has the same reaction, "Wow, that's cool", but I'm not sure it's $2,400 worth of cool.

Navigation - $2,070: Completely personal choice. Not as good as my Acura's system, but I'm still glad I got it.

Power Seat Package - $1,550 & Black Leather Seats - $1,520: If I were ordering the car, I might have replaced these two with the slightly more expensive "adaptive sport seats". Again, if you are going to be virtually the only driver, memory seats and mirrors may not be necessary. Standard vs. sport seats is entirely a personal fit and preference issue.

Bose - $1,390 & Remote CD - $650: A must for me, a waste for you, based upon what you indicated.

Sport Chrono - $920: My personal "must have". As a performance option, I'd rank the bang for the buck here above the PASM and 19" wheels, even though I have all three.

Metallic Paint - $825: Now that I know I like the car so much, I would have ordered it in Speed Yellow, saved $825, and to hell with what anyone else thinks. But I have Seal Grey, which was my top choice after Speed Yellow.

Heated Seats - $480: A must have for me in a Cab, since I will put the top down in 45 degree weather.

Self Dimming Mirrors - $385: I plan on driving the car a lot, so this is a useful feature. If it's going to be a daytime / weekend fun car, maybe not necessary.

Metal Door Sill Insignea - $415, Porsche Crest in Headrest - $220, Wheel Caps with Colored Crest - $185: If I were ordering, I think I'd take the last, but not the first two. Strictly personal.

Black Mats, Porsche lettering - $115: Splurge on this one.

The above options, unless I missed something, should total $13,125. The 2006 I had ordered only had $8,840. But the 2005 base price was $2,500 less and I got a big discount on the 2005.

Regarding your question on PASM - if you are sticking with 18" wheels and going with a Tiptronic, I think I would recommend foregoing the PASM (but not the sport chrono). The PASM gives you the option of stiffening the suspension, but unless you are really pushing the car on a smooth surface, it's hard to feel the handling improvement.

Good luck, hope this helps a little.

chrmdome · October 2005

Guy:
See my previous message about my BMW problem. I have to say that BMW is coming through! They are replacing my trunk with one off of a 2006 of the same model and color and the GM is going to give me a written document stating that the service department must take special care of my concerns and that he is personally responsible for all the service and the care of my vehicle while in the service department. They screwed up and they have come through. Congrats to them, I'm happy , but there are some real dumb [non-permissible content removed] working there. Porsche C2S is still a kick...varoooom

Chromedome

chrmdome · October 2005

SIR;
I had it as an option on my C2S that I Purchased 9/29. I'm not a stereo guy but it sounds great, I do not have the regular system to compare it to.

Enjoy , the Carrara is a real joy

Chrome dome

1wanta997 · October 2005

WOW - That's a lot of GREAT INFORMATION.

You hit A LOT of marks and concerns that I have (and had). The Seal Grey is a must for me as I've 'wore out' silver and all the other colors just don't have that look of Seal Grey to me.

I guess I need to research the different seats by taking a drive in them.

You've hit the mark about the PASM and other Porsche goodies.

Your responses are very much appreciated. With the pages of options and customizations available and the limited vehicles to see / test drive, makes it that much harder to get first hand information - and the dealers want to sell you everything! So I'm really appreciative of all your thoughts and comments.

Helps A LOT.

Harold

naif · October 2005

Any opinions on Simoniz System 5 (or similar dealer-applied Teflon coatings). Cost is $595? How about Lojack? I thought it would pay for itself in insurance reductions, but apparantly you only get 15% off the comprehensive premium, which is about $700, about the same as the Lojack price, so it's not a no-brainer.

naif · October 2005

I ordered my C2 Cab with 18" wheels, but if I were to do it again, I'd go for 19". So I'm considering swapping the 18" tires for snowtires (I live in Massachusetts) and buying a 19" set of wheels and tires for the rest of the year.

Does this make sense? How much wear and tear is involved swapping tires twice a year if I forego the 19s?

bsumner · October 2005

Habitat1 and I often disagree (as gentlemen do) on the minor details, but his overview is very useful, he's obviously very well informed, and his judgments are sound and reasonable.

Here are my additions/thoughts:

1. Sports Chrono. From a pure resale perspective--and in my opinion only--spending $1k on the Bose and/or Xenon lights is more likely to be a plus than the sports chrono.

The sports chrono is a mixed bag in the sense that some love it and swear by it (Habitat1, for example)--which is great--and others think it's an overpriced distraction on the dashboard and is another example of Porsche's nickeling and diming . Others just don't care. I am in the last of the 3 camps. Personally, I probably wouldn't want a more sensitive throttle response since I have enough of a lead foot anyway. And since I don't care about the timer feature (even though it is a good looking timepiece), that would be a lot of $$ to spend just for the throttle response/optionality/etc. If it were $300 I'd get it, but at $1k, tough for me to justify.

2. Carrera 4. I'd consider looking at the 4wd model . . . but that's more a macro issue than an option issue . . . but just wanted to throw it in the mix. With the 4 you get the 2" wider fenders, which is cool. Again, Habitat1 and I disagree on this one, but you are getting the straight dope from us--each of us has put his $$ where his mouth is . . . his $$ went for the S and cabrio, mine is going for the 4.

3. What is "really needed? The base car is well equipped. The main (and unforgivable) misses in my view are: Xenons, self-dimming mirrors, power-adjustable/heated seats (though we've come to expect all things seat-related to cost $$ in a 911). There isn't a lot you "have" to add. One personal add: I will never buy a car without a nav--a safety/convenience issue. But not a "must have" to those more geographically inclined.

4. What do you care? On a pure theoretical basis, the best resale value is an absolutely base car . . . because that's the item that depreciates the least--particularly vis-a-vis high ticket and low-value (on an economic basis) options. Ultimately, though, my view is that if you're spending 70+ large on a car, don't worry about the next guy. You've got enough $$ to worry about yourself. You're buying a Porsche . . . get exactly what you want/what you're comfortable spending and to heck with anyone else. The 997 has great momentum . . . and I expect its resale will be strong particularly given the lower production #s. Buy it and enjoy it. (Oh, and I hate to say it, but there is one thing you're doing that will be tougher for resale: Tiptronic. But again, it's your car, not the next guy's. Buy it for you.) And finally, if you're like me, you won't have to worry that much about resale. My view of modern cars is you either buy them for a decade or buy them for their warranty period--because you fear repair bills/hasstle and/or don't have the time/patience to deal with an out-of-warranty car. That's another way to get out of the resale "box".

Best of luck.

-BS

bsumner · October 2005

Why are you 19" focused now?

habitat1 · October 2005

Good analysis to you too - and I think we might agree more than you think. I would put Xenons above almost all else on the option priority list. Came standard on the "S", but a must for all sports cars, IMO. I also want to amend my position on the "4" vs. the "2". I was previously swayed by a few anecdotal opinions. In actuality, I've never driven a 997 C4S and have been told the old 996 is too different from the 997 to be a good surrogate. If, heaven forbid, my 2005 997 was hit by a meteorite and I was ordering a 2006, I'd give the Cab 4 S a test drive. Going for a Cab vs. coupe, "S" vs. base and "4" vs. "2" quickly gets the MSRP up into the $110k range for a 2006, but I do think the "4" is definitely worth fair consideration.

Here's hoping your remaining wait for your C4 goes quickly.

1wanta997 · October 2005

Hi Y'all,
I had a chance to do another test drive in a 2005 C2 Tiptronic and have the following questions:

1. The seats in this 911 were manual and I had a hard time adjusting them/ getting comfortable. My question is: Does anyone have the power seats option and does the bottom cushion adjust like on the Mercedes S-class (the lower seat cushion can be extended and retracted independently of the seat position) and

2. Does the Sports Chrono really make itself 'felt' with a Tiptronic? My test drive in the 911 was pretty snappy as it was (without the Sports Chrono).

Again, all the comments have been EXTREMELY USEFUL to me and they are ALL appreciated.

Regards, Harold

dweiser · October 2005

My addition(s).
My 997 Seal Grey Carrera 4 Cab due in November will have these two additional options I didn't see listed here by anyone.
482 TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring System)
CUL Windstop W/"Porsche" Lettering (someone said the 06 Cab comes with this but my salesperson said it's an option).

1wanta997 · October 2005

To dweiser:

Yep, the TPMS is a MUST when you don't have a spare - and the 997 doesn't have a spare.

(Congrates on your C4 Cabrio)

Thanks, Harold

bsumner · October 2005

FYI: my dealer advised me not to get the TPMS for 2 reasons:

1. It supposedly doesn't work very well; and
2. I makes wheel/tire replacement more difficult--supposedly it's hard to both get the sensor in place properly and have it work . . . which often leads to the TPMS warning perpetually being on--which I'd find annoying.

-BS

naif · October 2005

I test drove both and preferred (by a tiny margin) the 19s, and they look good. But if there is no harm switching the tires twice a year I would probably conclude it's not worth it..

1wanta997 · October 2005

bumner, Thanks for that info.

I thought (and was hoping that) Porsche got the TPMS right - guess not. Your points are very valid, so I'll guess I'll scratch TPMS from my list.

(I have the same problem you mentioned with my Mercedes. I picked up a nail, and it did notifiy me; but I have to keep the pressure at 4 pounds over the recommended pressure to keep from getting the false signals. Settings can't be changed.)

-Harold

merc1 · October 2005

Interesting post. As habitat1 stated earlier there is very little hard data on this, but I do know that Mercedes and Porsche work together on a lot of things, safety being one of them. The decline in Mercedes' bank vault feeling has not translated into a decline in safety engineering. That is one of the few things they haven't haven't skimped on during the poor interior quality years, ditto for Porsche. There was a program on TV some years about rear end crashes and how almost no automakers at the time addressed this problem. The only brands to pass the test were Mercedes, Porsche and Saab. The Porsche at the time was the 993 Series 911 so it would hard to imagine that the 997 isn't at least as safe or safer than the 993. No sports car of the 911's size is going to standup to a SUV like a large Mercedes sedan or any other large German sedan for that matter. Hell with the early-build W140 S-Classes you could go SUV hunting.

Well up to the super-size SUV class anyway. I would feel safer in a 911 than I would a 350Z or Corvette in such an accident. Not much to go on here I know, but I found your question interesting.

M

rcl5659 · October 2005

Thanks for the feedback on 911 safety.

Safety is surely two things: avoidance and survival. Without doubt, the 911 is tops on avoidance.

But I live in an area where there are LOTS of 16 years olds whipping around in huge SUV's, while talking on the phone, blasting music, etc. With my, and my neighbors, kids in the car I feel like I need to offer them protection from these massive vehicles, in case one does hit us.

Not too long ago I was sitting at a red light in my E320. I heard squealing wheels, and looked into my rearview mirror in time to see a young lady smash into me at a pretty good clip (there were cars in front and on the sides of me, so I had no where to go). Fortunately, it was only a Nissan sedan.

When she hit, my first thought was "Wow! This Mercedes is one solid car." When I got out to see what happened, the first thing that was apparent was that the front end of her car had essentially disintegrated.

But after I checked out that she was okay, I inspected my car. Nothing but a crack in the bumper.

The MB reliability, and expense in maintaining however, has not been good. And I hate (driving) Lexus cars. And with the poor performance of the Nissan in this past accident, I am concerned about Infiniti as well.

So I would love to get a 911. Statistically, the E320 is the safest car on the road - - at least for cars that are measured. I would have to believe the 911 is extremely safe, but I am somehow stuck on not buying one (for my daily driver) until I am more convinced. And I know all of the various test results have their flaws, but they can be reassuring nevertheless.

Maybe I wait for the Panamera!! (But I better start saving.)

habitat1 · October 2005

It sounds like the 911 is your fantasy, but that you'd be better off looking elsewhere. When you talk about Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes and even the Panamera in the same post as the 911, it seems that you are trying too hard to justify the 911 as a year round, all conditions, family hauler. And forgetting that first and foremost, it's a sports car. I have greatly enjoyed that, of the 2,250 miles I've logged in the first 5 weeks, my wife and kids have been with me at least 500 of them. Yesterday, we went on a 120 mile rountrip with the top down to the Chesapeake Bay looking for pumpkins. But I have no illusions of taking them out in heavy DC Beltway traffic at night with the top up fighting for space with 18 wheelers. The 911 may be infinitely more family friendly than a Ferrari 360 or my old Honda S2000, but it's not a very good year round replacement for a E320 or Volvo SUV.

P.S. My wife was rear ended a couple of years ago in our Trooper by an E430. Minimal damage to the Trooper ($1,500), but the Mercedes had to be flat bedded from the scene and I was told by the other guy's insurance company that it sustained over $15,000 in damage. Apparantly, slamming on one's brakes and dipping the front end low before impact is much worse for the rear-ender than the rear-endee.

rcl5659 · October 2005

You are essentially correct.

I am tired of the MB quality problems, but appreciate its safety and performance when it is running right. I don't think BMW or Audi are any better w/quality. And, I don't think the Japanese cars are up to German safety (or performance) standards.

So.... I thought I would turn to Porsche. I would surely love to drive a 911 on a regular basis. A business partner of mine had one, which I got to drive often, so I do have a real appreciation for them. I have tested the Cay a number of times, but don't enjoy throwing around 5k+ pounds, nor sitting up so high.

So, I guess I am trying to convince myself that this awesome sports car (i.e., the 911) can be my daily driver - - but I am not there yet. I am thinking about a Coupe 4S, which I believe would be quite safe, and living in Chicago I do like the 4wd. At my local Porsche dealer, which I really like, many of the sales guys claim to drive them as their regular cars.

What I am looking for is a car that seats 4 (even if 2+2), and that is safe, reliable and fun to drive. With all the choices and advancements in the auto industry you'd think I'd have many choices. But I really can't find anything - - even at higher price levels. Except for Porsche, the Euro-cars quality, especially the German cars with their electronics, are very suspect at best. Even the E55 is supposed to have quality problems.

With the money I've poured into my E320, I feel like I've bought two of them. But I guess for now, I'll keep grinding away with the one I've got.

merc1 · October 2005

My wife was rear ended a couple of years ago in our Trooper by an E430. Minimal damage to the Trooper ($1,500), but the Mercedes had to be flat bedded from the scene and I was told by the other guy's insurance company that it sustained over $15,000 in damage. Apparantly, slamming on one's brakes and dipping the front end low before impact is much worse for the rear-ender than the rear-endee.

Oh yes. I can imagine what that E430 looked like. I bet the hood was peeled back all the way to the winshield and the bumper was dropped to the ground with all the "guts" showing?

M

merc1 · October 2005

I think habitat1 is right about your reasons for wanting to justify the Porsche.

Now I had to go round and round with him to get the right Porsche, now it looks like I'm going to have to talk you into getting a Porsche?

Seriously though I wouldn't worry all that much about a Porsche's safety. Porsches are still basically engineer's cars and with Mercedes right across town I can't possibly see how they wouldn't be safe. The only thing is they're still low the ground and small cars (sports cars) so getting hit isn't going to be the same as getting hit in a E-Class Benz. That said, get the Porsche. I can bet you won't think about it anymore once you're driving it!

I noticed you said you live in Chicago. Well I'm the west burbs and my car is a tin can compared to a Porsche. I'm sure you're already a good driver and like you noted your ability to avoid an accident will go up dramatically with a Porsche. You'll find yourself driving differently I think once you get used to a smaller/sportier car. You'll always pay close attention to where you are on the road in relation to other drivers and what they're driving. I hope I explained this right.

M

habitat1 · October 2005

911 seats 4? You might want to do what I did by taking your family for a "test fit". I'm 5'7", my wife is 5'1". With us in the front seats, there is reasonable legroom for our smallish 7 year old behind me and 10 year old behind my wife. The coupe has an inch or two advantage over the Cab, plus a seatback that is angled backward (as opposed to straight up and down) making it more comfortable. On the other hand, without the "fun" factor of riding in a convertible, my kids might rather be in our MDX where they can really stretch out. In any event, coupe or cab, 4 full size adults (or even two big adults and 2 kids) cannot fit in a 911.

Also, the "4" version does not turn the 911 into an SUV. The ground clearance of our Cab S is 3.9 inches. The non-S, non-PASM version buys you another 1/2". The "4" will get you slightly better wet weather traction on the shoulder seasons, but it's not going to plow through snow or slush with the 30 series Z rated summer tires. And even snow tires and rims won't raise the ground clearance.

Our 911 is a third car that will get used as frequently as possible, thanks to it's fun and ease to drive. However, I don't think it would qualify as a second car in a two car household for us. Even if I only had my old 1995 Maxima is a back up, I'd at least want something there for the worst of winter.

Not to discourage you from the 911, but another car that I considered which might be a bit more versitile is the BMW M3. I do think that BMW's quality is better than Mercedes at the moment and the M3 6-speed is the most fun to drive of any coupe out there, IMO.

merc1: I do say a private "thank you" to you every time I plop my kids in the back seat. And, now that the engine is broken in, every time I hit an open stretch of DC beltway by myself!

merc1 · October 2005

merc1: I do say a private "thank you" to you every time I plop my kids in the back seat. And, now that the engine is broken in, every time I hit an open stretch of DC beltway by myself!

You are most welcome. That means my work here is almost done!!!

Now we've got to get rcl5659 into a 911 too! He sounds like the perfect buyer for Porsche upcoming 4-door car...the Panamera.

M

rcl5659 · October 2005

I did find one site of possible interest:

www.highwaysafety.org/brochures/ictl/ictl_sport.html

Check out the 911 here.

bsumner · October 2005

My read of your link is:

It's safe when hit, but very expensive to repair.

I hoped for the former, definitely expected the latter.

-BS

tzuckert · October 2005

I've never purchased a Porsche before and am considering purchasing 2 next year - a Cayenne S for my wife (waiting for the 2007 model due out Spring 2006) and a C4 or C4S Coupe for myself.

Doese Porsche do any discounting on its newer cars, or do I need to wait for the new body styles to have been on the market for a while? If so, how long? I live in CT and there are many dealers in this area as well as in NY and in NJ. Just didn't know if there is any room for negotiation.

habitat1 · October 2005

For what it's worth to anyone in this forum, I got close to $10k discount on my new 2005 Cab 2S in September. I had a 2006 on order for a $5k discount at the time, but elected to go with the 2005, given the price concession. It had several options I would not have ordered, bringing the MSRP up to $102,800. The 2006 on order had a MSRP of $101.5k +/-, including the base price increase. But, now that I have the $2,400 sport exhaust and $1,520 leather seats, they are nice "freebies".

I don't think there are too many leftover 2005 997's still around that are brand new (i.e. not demo's), but if there are, you should be able to negotiate a healthy discount.

I would expect the 2006 C4's and Cab 4's won't be discounted much until next summer.

P.S. Speaking of discounts, what's the real story with the Cayenne? I checked the inventory of one local dealer, HBL in Tyson's Corner, and although they only have 3-4 2006 911's in stock, they have over 80 Cayennes, including over 25 2005 models. Other dealers I checked also have around 3 times the number of Cayennes as all other Boxters and 911's. I have to believe this does not bode well for Porsche financially. Who's going to buy all of those 4-seater gas guzzling SuV's in the current economy??

kyfdx · October 2005

Porsche sells more Cayennes than the Boxster and 911 combined.. While I have no insight into the health of the company, it would make sense for a dealer to have many more of them on the lot, than the other cars..

Maybe not as many as your dealer has, though...

regards,
kyfdx
Host-Prices Paid Forums

tomtomtom · October 2005

I can't imagine what kind of discount you will get when they're stuck with 80 Cayennes. I've also seen a lot of Cayennes in N. Cal Porsche dealers' lot. I guess it would be great for those who want one.

kaufman34 · October 2005

Aside from the 2% increase in sticker - is there any other significant difference between a 2005 and a 2006 997 coupe/cab/??

habitat1 · October 2005

None that I am aware of. I do not recall a tire pressure monitoring system being available as an option on the 2005, but I may have just missed it. And the sticker went up closer to 2.8% ($2,500 in the case of the Cab S, from $88,900 to $91,400).

designman · October 2005

The following appeared from a poster elsewhere in the ether. I would think 997 also gets the optional digital logbook:

There are not many differences between 987 05 and 06 models, mainly a new "optional digital log book" that would record everywhere you go (creepy), and a tire pressure monitor using the ABS and stability control system.

dweiser · October 2005

Good news today, my P-car is officially "ON VESSEL"!
I should have it (east coast) in 2 to 3 weeks!

habitat1 · October 2005

Well, here's hoping for some nice weather in mid to late November in North Carolina to break in both the car and the cabriolet roof!!

I have yet to see a 2006 C4 or Cab4, base or "S", in person. And Edmunds doesn't even have them listed on its 911 model list. So I have to believe yours will be one of the first to arrive in the States. Congratulations on that, but factor in a few extra minutes answering questions when you stop for gas.

Also, I noticed that the base wheels and tires on the Cab 4 are wider in the rear than the base Cab 2 (295 vs. 265 on 18" rims). That's good, since the wider body would look a little funny on the narrower tires. And a nice upgrade thrown in with the "4" package. I have to admit that if I were ordering a 2006 today, there is a better than 50/50 chance I'd end up with a Cab 4 S instead of Cab 2 S.

Hang in there for the next few weeks.

bsumner · October 2005

That's great news, Don. Glad to hear it.

Let's hope my C4 coupe is on the same vessel (though I've heard squat from my dealer so far).

-BS

dweiser · October 2005

Thanks habitat1 and bsumner. Salesperson said mine would be their first Cab 4 or 4S. I'm hoping for good weather too. With windstop, heated seats, and lots of sweaters at least the cold won't stop me but snow or ice will but we usually don't get any of that here in the mountains of western NC until January.

roeldls · October 2005

I have a dilemma:

Can anyone give me any insight as to what they would do if they could get a 2002 Porsche Turbo at about $ 83k with 10k miles or spend $ 90k+ for a 2006 997 c4s....

I've always believed that the most recent technology is the best way to go, but a 996 Turbo is still a great car...

Is it worth the extra money to spend for a non-turbo 997 C4s???

Thanks.

dweiser · October 2005

I typed in a nice long explanation and it got lost so here's a briefer one.
997 is a much improved (inside & out) vehicle over the 996, so I hear from most everyone.
I'm not sure I'd want to own a Porsche outside its 4 year warranty period.
Could be very expensive if you have trouble. The previous owner of the Turbo may have thought the same.
Plus, if you want almost Turbo speed, order the 997 C4S with the x51 option!
Just my 2 cents, get what YOU want though.

bsumner · October 2005

I totally agree with Don (and had a similar message loss)

I would never buy a Porsche used (so long as I could afford a new one--and maybe even if I couldn't). There is too much risk around how it was broken in, why it is being sold, etc. Also, owners tend to drive them hard . . . which I don't view as a virtue. It's the same as buying a used M3, etc. The demographics of the drivers should make one's "caveat emptor" sensor light up.

But aside from this general approach, I think the 997 is a much better looking machine than the 996. The 997 is a very logical evolution from the 993 . . . but I don't know what happened with the 996--too disjointed and Japanese-inspired.

Finally, Don nailed it: warranty, warranty, warranty.

If I were spending 80 large, I'd definitely want a new car. So many good cars at 60k+. Why settle for a used car?

But, at the end of the day, do what makes you feel happy--that's the key.

Just my $0.02.

-BS

habitat1 · October 2005

I would agree with points made by Don and bsumner - as might be expected from someone who bought a new 997 himself.

However, in the spirit of fairness, I happen to know someone who has a 2001 911 Turbo Coupe with 11,000 miles that he will be selling to get a 997 Turbo, when they are available. He is a longtime Porsche enthusiast - still owns a 356 - and takes exceptionally good care of his vehicles. Whoever gets his "used" 911, will be getting a heck of a deal.

So, if YOU like the 996 style - and the Turbo does look a heck of a lot better than the non-Turbo models with their slim rear ends - then there are two factors that I would consider:

1) Do you intend to keep the car for less than 4 years? If so, the depreciation hit on the 2002 Turbo, which is already being sold for roughly $40k less than it cost new, will likely be less than a brand new 997 C4 at/near list price. I have another friend who has purchased 3 slightly used 911's over the past 10 years and his total depreciation during this time has been considerably less than what some experience with a single brand new car. You just have to accept that someone else got the fun of breaking it in and sucking up the new car smell.

2) Can you get an extended warranty at a reasonable price to protest you for another 3-4 years? A major uncovered repair could undermine the above ecconomics.

Again, I think you've heard from us that have or are getting a 997 that we strongly prefer the 997 over the 996. But that's 50% objective and 50% subjective. You need to weigh the subjective factor based upon your preferences and priorities.

P.S. Have you driven the cars back to back? If so, I'd be curious as your assessment of the difference.

Porsche 911

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