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The dealer had their annual track day at the local race track in early July. At that point, I only had 1,200 KMS on my car. The chief mechanic told me not to worry about it as Porsche engines are tough and it would not affect any warranty issues at all. The morning was full of exercises like maintaining speeds thru cones, locking up the brakes just to get an idea of the braking distances, etc. The afternoon was spent with professional drivers teaching the full potential of the cars thru an eleven turn track, turn apex's, etc, max speeds were around 210 km on a straightaway. My RPM's reached around 6,000 RPM tops. Burned a tank of gas & half liter of oil, but other than that the car is fine.
By the way, if ever invited to a similar event, go for it. When you pick up your new Porsche and drive it, you may realize about 1/5th of it's potential. In a track setting, you will see it to 4/5th of it's potential. The last 1/5th you probably should not know!
2006 Carrera S, Seal/Stone Grey
I drove a Cayman tonight and it was the most fun you could have with your clothes on. Sure, it was noisy (supposedly it had a Bose system but I couldn't tell the difference with the noise in the cabin), no cup holders, no luggage capacity beyond a small gymn bag in the front and a Sunday paper in the rear compartment, but is it fun! Mid-engined neutral handling, nice cabin layout, good HVAC, etc. Kind of like a 21st century version of a 356. A real "point and shoot" kind of car. Why buy a Lotus when this will run everyday in any kind of weather?
Moreover, consider this: a base Cayman is a 33% less expensive alternative to a base 997. I realize that it isn't a 997 but a 25K difference is a real difference if all you are looking for is fun driving to work and on weekends.
Maybe it's even a better time to buy that move-up house. Check out the front page of the Wall Street Journal on the housing market crash. They give an example of a home in Herndon, VA (DC suburb) appraised at $1.1 million last year that did't sell for $900k and eventually went to auction and sold for $530k. That one year difference is enough to put a Carrera GT, 911S and Cayenne S in the three car garage.
Getting back to the Cayman vs. 911, it sounds like you are still undecided on the whole sports car purchase decision. Which is fine - but you can drive yourself nuts doing all of the comparisons. Whether you spend $55k for a base Cayman, $80k for a base 911, $140k for a 911 Turbo or, even $32k for a Honda S2000, it is a highly discretionary, somewhat frivolous, purchase. At the very least, it should not be painful to your budget and it should be something you really want/enjoy.
As I approach the one year anniversary of 911S Cab ownership next month, I am very happy with my purchase decision. I would not have been nearly as happy with the Boxster S I had been considering. Those 2 back seats in the 911 cost me around $35,000, but the fact that we can and do use the 911 as a family car is "priceless". I may have done a cost benefit analysis on the "base" vs. the "S" model 911, but what's going as a family in the 911 to the Eastern Shore of Maryland worth, vs. going in our MDX and leaving a Boxster S in the driveway?
On the other hand, if I had spent more than I was comfortable spending for ANY car, especially a discretionary sports car, what the hell fun would that be?
My point is that (1) now may indeed be a very good time to negotiate a good deal on a Porsche and (2) get whatever you are comfortable with, both in terms of product and price and (3) don't feel pressured to get anything, if you aren't completely comfortable. Porsche isn't going anywhere.
I finally settled on 911 C4 coupe. No more mental gymnastics. If only I could afford a bit more, then C4S coupe would have been my choice but I had to draw a line somewhere.
I also made sure that I am not loading this with options like Bose / Changer / power seats etc. which are nice when money is not a critical issue but are not a must if these options put the 911 out of our reach.
One advice, endless analysis will not do you any good. You only loose precious time..
good luck
My problem (paradigm?) is that I'm a 62 year old Irish Catholic, Jesuit trained PH. D. , who runs a business. As a result I'm plagued by guilt and a tendency to over-analyze and weigh out spending options. Moreover, a buck means something to me: I recall vividly the $65 a month in combat pay and later the $300 a month GI Bill I received 4 decades ago. (Somehow part of that $300 went for a 912!).
You and dweiser are a little more "experienced" than me, so I'm not going to pretend to tell you how to reconcile frugality, guilt and Porsche. For me, it was easier than I expected, in part because I got a hell of a deal on the price, and I "sacrificed" in other ways.
Good luck. Whatever you decide, you have my respect (and apprecition for serving our country).
996 is a de-evolution by my standards, 993 is the purest Porsche ever made. 80,000 miles on a car that well-made is like nothing. And cab....wow. Check Carfax so you don't get screwed, but I like that '96.
And it comes with a new car w-a-r-r-a-n-t-y.
Personally, I would hate to pay repair costs on any Porsche.
Choosing among the different Porsches is a pleasure. But once you put down your cash, you are committed. So delay your gratification guys, by doing your research and doing a lot of test drives. Learning about the subtle and obvious differences among the 911s will make you a much more informed and wiser P-car owner.
Personally, I'd stay away from the 993s right now because:
1) they will depreciate much more due to the performance and styling improvements of the 997 plus their artificially high resale values due to the speculator/collector market.
2) although they are the last of the air-cooled p-cars, they are expensive to maintain and repair compared to the 996s
3) p-car values always plateau in the summer and drop in the winter. So if you want to save money, wait a couple of months.
1.) It's a real Porsche. It may not be a 911 but it's still a Porsche.
2.) I'm not sure what a new Boxster goes for but your $40,000 would come a lot closer to buying a new one than it would to a 911. My 911 was close to $100,000. for instance.
3.) The Boxster, being mid-engined, may actually handle better than a 911.
4.) I haven't owned my 911 a year yet and they've ordered or installed FIVE CD players for it. I heard the cost was around $2,400 FOR A CD PLAYER! Now what's that new car 5 year 40,000 mile warranty worth to you?
Wait until the last business day of December, 06 and I'll bet you could get a heck of a deal on a 997 and an even better deal on a rag top Boxter. ("Mr Sales Manager, I'm prepared to wire transfer to you.....)
http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/30/autos/cr_supercars/index.htm
What it sounds like you need to do is test drive another 911 S or two at your dealership and see if they behave the same as yours. If they don't, I'd have the service manager give yours a test drive and see what he says. My car did seem to become smoother in terms of engine response and clutch engagement during and after the break in period, but I wouldn't have described it "tugging" or "choppy" when it was new.
I wouldn't worry too much about hitting 5.5k rpms a few times, but I wouldn't make a further habit of it, especially when the engine is cold, during the first 1,000 miles.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Patience...
Have you warmed up the 911? Are you on the original fuel that it came over with? If you can fill it up with fresh fuel. Or is it dirty fuel?
Your problem is either inconsequential (bad fuel) or potentially very big. I'd find out.
That's good, since there wasn't a 2006 and the 2008 is a year+ away.
"Does anyone know if it's possible to get one under MSRP"
Doubtful. Most of the ones that have arrived to date have been pre-sold. The earliest my dealer could get me one is November/December. I could probably get a nominal "courtesy" discount, as a previous 911 customer, but it would be nominal. New customers will likely pay MSRP. I'm not seriously considering one, as we enjoy the Cab too much and a Turbo Cab is likely another year away.
"Also, I understand the ED cars don't count against dealer inventory. Does that mean I have a better chence of getting a discounted price if I go that route?"
Sure you aren't confusing Porsche and BMW/Mercedes? As far as I know, the Factory delivery option for Porsche still comes out of a dealer's allocation, and, in any event, ADDS a couple thousand $ to the price. There is no discount.
Supposedly Porsche is scaling back production somewhat on the Turbo, in anticipation of a further softening of the US economy. I think the only chance you could get a discount is to find a dealer that happens to have an unsold car in stock or incoming. You'll be stuck with the color and options, but you may get a nominal discount. But, at least in my area, ordering it to your specs will likely take a few months and cost you MSRP. Which, by the way, is still a good deal compared to the former 996 Turbo S w/ X51.
When I look at the Porsche US distribution model as a business person, I love it. Take a look with me at how I see how Porsche has it set up. Its amazing.
First, Porsche is over-dealered with many more dealers than they really need. The Boston market, hardly Porsche country, has I think 5-6 dealers. Porsche controls distribution by rationing cars with an allocation system. A dealer's allocation is a function of previous sales. In other words, the big get bigger (i.e., Champion). The dealers all have to show their current model year inventory on the Porsche factory web site so all potential customers can view it. Again the guys with the allocations get the cars and then get to exhibit their inventory nationally at Porsche's expense. The guys who have the biggest allocations have the best selection and they have a leg up on their competition. Because every one knows what everyone else is holding in inventory, there is little incentive to buy a car locally. If you do want to buy a car from dear ol' Joe, he must have an open allocation. No allocation (and they are specific even down to C2Cab vs. C4Cab), no deal. As a result of all this, there is no real territoriality and the Porsche market is really a national one.
Now I realize that not every buyer takes advantage of the Porsche web site, checks inventories, and calls around. But lots do and this must be increasing. The Economist would call this "disintermediation". Sal, my barber, would call it doing away with the middle man.
Porsche took steps to rationalize this about 10 years ago and wanted the dealers to not stock new cars but just do deliveries, service, etc. The factory was going to operate as I recall out of NV and have regional factory showrooms (I could be wrong on this). Naturally the dealers complained to their state legislators and won.
Porsche should be grateful. The way the system is set up now, the dealers have to buy and pay to floor plan the cars, not Porsche. But Porsche controls the distribution and has made it transparent, diminishing the dealer's margin.
Comments?
"The guys who have the biggest allocations have the best selection and they have a leg up on their competition."
Not necessarily. Personally, I'm inclined to (and did) purchase from a relatively smaller dealership outside of Baltimore rather than one of the much larger dealerships in the immediate DC area. Yes, price and availability of the car I wanted were major factors, but I also value personal service. I dealt directly with the sales manager and service manager.
"..there is no real territoriality and the Porsche market is really a national one."
I bought our two Acuras from my hometown dealership, 375 miles away. But I did not buy a 911 from a Porsche dealership 250 miles away because, for that purchase, I wanted the option to go back to the selling dealership for service or warranty work. The fact that Porsche dealerships list their inventory on a Porsche website is helpful, but not doing so didn't keep my Acura business in DC.
"Sal, my barber, would call it doing away with the middle man."
And that's not a good thing?? Sorry, but like I said, I prefer to deal directly with a sales manager or GM. With all of the information available to me, I don't need a salesperson to teach me about a car or get in the way of a deal. Again, no difference between my Porsche and Acura purchases.
"...diminishing the dealer's margin".
Porsche dealer's margins are the best in the automotive industry, short of exotics like Ferrari. I got a spectacular deal on my 911 at $10k off. Which was still $2k+ over invoice. I am willing to bet that 80% of 911's are sold with less than a $5k discount, which would be $5-7k over invoice. Ask a Porsche dealer if he'd rather be selling Fords at $2k under invoice.
Again, I'm not sure what is different about Porsche than other dealers, other than they make more money.
You're welcome - and thanks for giving me the opportunity to snag post 911 from Blckislandguy.
If you are serious, let me know.
P.S. And don't start looking for a 2005 996 turbo. They are fine cars, but at that price, I think you would be better off with a 2007 997 Carrera S. My friend who traded his 996 Turbo for a Carrera S couple a few months ago would agree.
My local dealer did finally call back. Seems they were waiting for the allocation info to come in. The big sticking point is I want a Tip, and they seem to be in short supply. Pacific in FLA has a Oct build coming in and they want $160K. My local dealer offered me MSRP, Dec build, Feb (or so) delivery. (I am out west.) I was considering ED (and still am) so I can actually DRIVE the car, but my trip to Europe is already set for November. If your dealer can get me a Tip at MSRP to meet my schedule, then, yeah, I'm interested.
I would not get your hopes up that you will find an unsold Turbo in time for you to pick up in November at the factory. Mine, which I ordered in July, is now looking like it will come in in mid October instead of mid september as originally planned. As someone pointed out, Porsche is cutting back production in anticipation of a US recession.
Something else you might want to reconsider is the Tiptronic. Porsche seems to be heavily promoting it as "faster than the manual". I think they are trying to make up for the fact that they have been delayed in the final engineering and introduction of their DSG unit, which should be available in the 2008's if not sooner. The Tiptronic is an AUTOMATIC with a torque converter. It's only quicker than the manual if you hold the brake before "launching" it. It's shift points in automatic mode are set too low. Upshifts are quick, downshifts are not. After driving one myself, it is NOT a transmission I could ever be happy with or recommend to ANY enthusiast with a left leg. I suspect that the Tiptronic will become an unwanted stepchild once the DSG becomes available - and will very likely take a big hit on resale.
Part of me wants to encourage guys like you paying $160k to be able to get a Turbo sooner rather than later. Certainly helps my resale, since I got mine at a slight discount (total of $128k, including options). But I do think patience would be a virtue in this case. If you are dead set against a 6-speed for some reason, put yourself at the top of the list to get an DSG at MSRP. Or, if not, shop around for a 6-speed and you may find better availability. But don't fall for Porsche's marketing of the Tip. In three years, it will be viewed as a hiccup. Mark my word on that one.
Thanks
A friend of mine who is a serious Porsche enthusaist (visits the factory annually) has echoed what spiritinthesky said. Namely, that Porsche DSG will be far superior to the automatic torque converter equiped Tiptronic, in terms of all around performance, shift speed and control. The dual clutch system further distinguishes DSG from SMG (sequential manual gearbox) units which, I believe just use a single clutch and therefore do not have as fast shifts.
I also heard rumors that Porsches DSG might cost $5,000-$7,000 (twice the Tip cost), but compared to the inferior $10k+ Ferrari F1 SMG unit, that is still a bargain.
Me, I'll probably go to the grave with a clutch pedal in my coffin and stick shift in my hand.
Amen. I will never get a DSG in a sports car. There's no "probably" about it. It will be interesting to see how many Porsches are sold with DSG since Porsche is unequivocally the stronghold for the manual transmission. I can't wait to get this over with.
Here are the options
Bose
sport chrono
Full black leather
extended Nav
Power seat package
Heated seats
S package
Colored wheel caps
Black Mats wilth logo
Tire pressure monitor
CD Changer
Tiptronic ( I live in Manhattan, will be a daily driver)
I have been testdriving 911s for most of the summer and definitely have been bitten. I've had BMWs for the last 12 years or so and am ready to get on the 911 bandwagon for the next 12 years .
My question for you guys is which model(MY2002 plus) to get. I've got about $60k to play with so the Turbo may be out of reach. I'm currently in CO for a job and will be heading back to CA next summer so the C4S may be the way to go...it's got plenty of power with the added bonus of awd plus the sound of that exhaust(intoxicating). I've found a few with less than 20k miles within my price range here in CO. One more concern is the maintenance cost. I've done basic routine maint on my BMWs(i.e. oil, plugs, brakes) and was wondering how difficult it would be to do on the 911s. Also, any recall items that I should be concerned about (RMS leaks and so on).
Thanks in advance for your advice/recommendations!!
I've had my 911S (2005 MY, 9,100 miles) in the rain a few times and it is fine at highway speeds up to 65-75+ mph. Much more stable and none of the skittishness of my former S2000. I think you should be fine as long as you don't try testing it's 0-60 or 1/4 mile capabilities in a downpour.
Sounds like you have a very nicely equiped car. What is the "S package" option? Care to share what kind of deal you got?
From what I understand, the Porsche DSG will be a further technological advancement of the type of unit Audi uses in their R series. I am NOT a fan of the 7-speed SMG found in the new M5 (I have a 2003 M5 6-speed). But even I am interested in what Porsche can do with a double clutch DSG in the 911. It is unfortunate that, for whatever reason, this advanced transmission was not available in time for the launch of the 2007 Turbo. But, as I said, it will make the Tiptronic instantly obsolete.
Excellent deal. I was surprised by the $108 sticker, but forgot the price went up $2,400 for 2006 and you have Tip.
Break-in: I assume you have either seen one of my dozen or so previous posts or were told by your dealer not to drive the car for short distances during the first 1,500 +/- miles? Not in the owner's manual, but common knowledge/advice amoung the experts.
I wouldn't worry about exceeding 65 mph. Excessivly hard acceleration should be avoided and keep the rpms below 4,200 and vary engine speed. But in mine you could cruise along at 75-80 in 6th gear and be well within the rpm limit. I assume the same is true in 5th with the Tip. Just don't use cruise control for a long trip and vary between 55 and 75.
Jeff