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With that extra $7,000 you will also get a better warranty, a vehicle with a terrific reliability reputation, and no need to scrounge for service stations with ULSD diesel pumps.
There are some trade offs of course and I'm sure VW fanboys will be glad to point them out.
In our area a JettaTDI wagon is over $33.000 before taxes. A loaded Elantra Touring is $10,000 less.
Personally I think they are all too much money, as the last round of car company discounts seems to show that dealer "invoice" is a joke and more like what MSRP should be, for starters.
Don't get me started on the Stealerships that are tacking on another $2,000 over MSRP just because they can...see the extra "$2,000 side stickers" at the Great Falls Montana VW dealer.
things may have changed and my knowledge about courtesy-deliveries is probably old/stale - maybe they are not done nowadays. salesfolks at the dealerships should be able to tell you the current info.
There are some trade offs of course and I'm sure VW fanboys will be glad to point them out.-end
VW haters are mired in the past. VW improved it's reliability.
Recommending Hyundai for it's quality over VW is so ironic in the overall context it is almost beyond funny to absurd.
The below commentary from Warren Brown column is relevant.
-from Warren Brown column-
Baltimore, Md.: I've seen you recommending the VW Jetta TDI for the past several weeks now, and after taking one on a test drive, I'm now really interested in buying one. However, many people have emphatically told me to steer clear of VWs, citing numerous reliability and maintenance problems they've had over the years. Has VW taken any steps to address these problems for the '09/'10 models?
Warren Brown: Reputations. Good ones are easily lost. Bad ones tend to hang around long after things have changed. At VW, particularly in the mid-Atlantic region in the matter of maintenance and repairs, things have changed for the better. The Jetta TDI is a darned good car now backed by a company that acts on the notion that "total quality" includes repair service.
-end
Well mopar, sorry to say it's neither ironic, funny, or absurd, check the latest JD Power reliablity reports and see who got the better scores.
Just to save you some time, its Hyundai 13 out of possible 20
VW 8 out of possible 20
I wish it were the other way around, I have a Jetta TDI sitting in the garage, if you really wanted the most reliable car out there today, the reports says...Buy a Buick.
I'm shopping for a new one now and am not exactly impressed with the scene at the dealers I've visited. VW's always talking about being dedicated to improving quality control, but until it's been proven over a period of at least a few years, it's all talk. And why they continue to allow their dealers to behave the way they do is beyond me. Makes it even harder to take the pronouncements about their determination to make things better seriously.
That said, I'm getting a Jetta TDI anyway. Originally, I wasn't going to get another VW because of all the quality and service issues. But I ended up deciding I wanted the TDI. Even though I've had a good experience (I don't take it to the dealer for service, of course), I have eyes and ears and literally nobody else I know who has had one in the years since I got mine is happy enough to stick with VW.
Actually what they've been talking about lately is cutting build time, content and their costs. They complain that it takes way too much time on the production line to build a Jetta.
So, look at what they've taken from the Jetta TDI from the past 2006 model year, no more real leather, no dual control climate package, no more power memory seats, now only grey and black interiors etc etc...the next VW move to cut costs and put them together them faster is a new factory in Tennessee to build a 2011 "American Model"..any VW buyers out there want their new Jetta to be built..faster?
VW 8 out of possible 20
8 and 13 out of a possible 20 what?
Colored in circles?
2.6 problems per vehicle for VW
1.5 problems per vehicle for Hyundai
0 score being a vehicle that's just been crushed?
it in traffic. Have an 07 Accord with 150k that has been absolutely bulletproof, but
love the way the TDI drives and the mileage. Really need and automatic but the
reliability of the DSG makes me nervous. What are peoples thoughts? Get the
TDI with 6spd, try the DSG, or stay with another Accord?
Above is a nifty .gov comparo. You can customize the C/H miles percentages, fuel costs etc.
Upshot: you save $1,778 per year or $148 per mo.
There is no doubt in my mind the 07 Accord will easily do you 300k, if not 400k.
So being as how you already have/own the Accord:
1. Accord A/T (I presume)
2. TDI, manual 6 sp
3. TDI DSG 6 spd.
You already have a ton of miles on your Accord, so keeping it for another year won't make that much differece on a trade in.
(and as he points out, you save a lot of money each month by keeping it)
By then the total re-designed Jetta TDI's will be out in 2011.
Or if you got real lucky, Honda will get off their [non-permissible content removed] and bring over their 2.2 ltr Diesel Accord they have had running around Europe for years.
I have read on Euro TDI forums that this 2.2 Diesel gets about the same mpg's as the VW TDI.
Seems it didn't pass the emmisions tests for the U.S. in a/t form. In Standard transmission, however it did.
Honda packed it up, went home in a huff and I haven't heard a peep of gossip, news, speculation or hints of it coming to North America since all the Hoopla in 2007 when they brought over the TDI test cars.
If the rest of the Auto Builders are noticing that VW's TDI's are hot items in N.A. we should be seeing some clues soon.
Just a quick snapshot shows (gassers) VW Jetta to be app $3,000 cheaper than a comparable Honda Accord.. When I purchasted a 03 VW Jetta TDI, there was considerable angst and criticism with a sub $300. premium over a turbo gasser Jetta !!?? Fast forward to 2009/2010 time frame and Edmunds.com (last I checked) showed the TDI to have up to $3,500 over the 1.8 T Jetta. Current TMV price difference is $2,300. (generic- not indepth)
Now don't you wish you had bought an extra 03' as a hedge against the crazie$ out there now?
(true market value) is an elusive number when you are dealing with VW on a TDI.
Right now they pretty much have this diesel car market all to themselves.
I know there are a couple of other options, but all upscale' from the Jetta, Golf and Beetle.
It's a market that is ripe for Ford, (they already have a couple of great little diesels in Europe), Honda, if they want to jump in with their already proven 2.2 and even Hyundai is (gossip alert) working on a diesel Elantra.
Til then it seems VW is the only game in town for a moderately priced high MPG diesel vehicle, so TMV is tough to get on the table at buying time. .
In the U.S.A. the auto makers are all fighting a diesel head wind in the market...iffy availability of ULSD (could only find 2 places in Helena Montana on the trip home, and a big truck stop in New Mexico where everybody thought I was crazy when I filled up the Jetta at the diesel pump) and for some strange reason, some sort of a Diesel is 'Anti American' feeling.
I have made the rounds of dealerships and looked at the shrunken list of options now available and the rising M$RP's on Jettas, decided to buy a low mileage 2006 Jetta with DSG and full Option 2 package, and call it done.
Car should eta 1st week of December. In my discussions with various VW dealers, not a lot of Golf TDIs' will be arriving in Colorado in 2009. Not an issue of negotiating a fair price as much as trying to find the car you want at this early date. Negotiated over the internet, relatively painless experience.
Your (Montana) lack of diesel experience is really the first I heard of D2 not being available. Even in 03 when according to .gov statistics app 1 in 4 stations carried D2, I have NEVER had an issue getting D2 fuel. But then again, I have only been to app 12 or so states and 1 foreign country and not the other 38 states. (with the TDI's)
I am guessing the 2009 TDI sales went a long way to "create a demand, spotlighting", etc. for TDI's. There were some so called "touch and go" months, even for VW TDI sales. I have read on another web site that the 2009 MY TDI's were 38,000.
I would hope you are happy with your 2006 TDI w / DSG !
longo2- Well mopar, sorry to say it's neither ironic, funny, or absurd, check the latest JD Power reliablity reports and see who got the better scores.
Check the latest 2009 Consumer Reports longo2 and here is what you will find
The VW Jetta's Recommendation now extends to the diesel version, making it the only diesel Consumer Reports currently recommends.
Well these items have to be cool beans ! VW seems to have made good on past initiatives to constantly improve.
I for one would be first in line. AWD is almost mandatory where I live, even if you just want to get out of the yard in the winter.
(I keep running an old 1992 Dodge Caravan with AWD for that)
The Subaru Wagon with high clearance, 30+ mpgs, heated seats and tons of torqe would be a winter dream machine around here.
any Northern California dealers for a 2010 Jetta TDI? Interested in what the best'
deal would be in relation to MSRP before TTL.
.Looks like VW has a long uphill PR battle ahead.........
Arlington, Va.: "We are looking to buy a small "commuter" car (good gas mileage, low maintenance, etc.) and don't have a lot of money. What do you recommend?
Warren Brown: Hyundai Elantra. First choice, best value for dollar.
Chevrolet Aveo. Second. Good value for dollar.
Honda Fit Sport. Third. Excellent quality. Most fun-to-drive. But could be pricey."
I think VW Pricing and reliability issues has somehow put it completely out of the minds of such reviewers when thinking of the criteria of this buyers question.
VW has now seems to be an 'up-scale' kind of product..a long way from it's roots.. my first VW was a new 1959 Beatle at $1700.00....
my last bug was a new 1971 Super Beatle (I think the best one they ever made) at $1921.00...they are now selling for up to $6,000.00
"Herman" as we called it, would have been a better investement than money in the bank, mind you that's not saying much is it. The U.S. market really needs the "PoloTDI" to get back to reality.
Road Test: Volkswagen Polo TDI
By Damien Tomlinson - 20/Oct/2006
The Volkswagen Polo is a very small car. It measures less than 4 metres long and only 1.65 metres wide, and competes for market share against similar sized vehicles like the Toyota Yaris, Peugeot 206, Mazda2, Holden Barina and Ford Fiesta. Unlike most of these cars however, the Polo has two very neat tricks up its sleeve.
The first is the GTI model, powered by a turbocharged 1.8-litre petrol engine. Feann reviewed this one and gave it an 80% score, which you can read about here. The second neat trick in Volkswagen Australia's Polo range is the TDI model. This cheeky little German car is powered by a 1.9-litre turbo diesel engine, giving the vehicle incredible fuel efficiency figures of 56mpg, an impressive cruising range and plenty of power.
And at the time of writing it has no direct competitors.
IMHO that's where VW should be again.
Paid 25100.00 + tax, license and 55.00 doc fees.
Every internet quote I received was 500 - 1000 over MSRP. I visited 3 dealers on Saturday to introduce myself and to completely examine the car. When I got home 2 dealers left internet quotes of -500 and the third was at MSRP. I picked the dealership I felt most comfortable with and I said let's cut the B.S. "I will not pay 5000 over what this car is really worth, but I'll pay 4000 more than it's really worth".
So, I worked out a 975.00 savings and still overpaid by thousands. I'm happy, I hope my daughter likes here new car.
Additionally, if this car has average or above average reliability, then this car truely makes the Prius (great transportation/reliability) look and drive like a golf cart. I'll get back to you in 5 or 6 years on the reliability thing.
fwiw, i put 80k miles on an 03 TDI non-sport wagon, including many boston/orlando drives. it was fine on a long trip but after 75k i found the shocks/struts were dead.
ps - say hi to kukla and fran if you see them around!
at least one of the dealers on the sticker put "Market Adjustment $1990" So looking at 27,000 OTD for the Manual and probably 29,500 on the Automatic. Yes I know these are in minute supply but this gouging on pricing is ridiculous. Yes? Yes I know the ride is sweet and the power of the cars is great but, this car seems like a vehicle that should be 24,500 OTD. Am I wrong?
I am buying this car for primarily for commuting as my growing family now needs a second car. Our other car is a BMW X3 which will be the kid-hauler. I like the idea of driving fuel efficient car and my commute is about 45 miles round trip. I also drive to NY/Boston 2-3 times a year. But the "deal" on the Passat is very attractive and the additional space, especially in the rear, would be helpful as my two kids grow out of their car seats.
Any insights on the pros and cons of each car relative to the other would be appreciated. I am especially interested in the historical long term reliability of both models. I also heard that you can use regular fuel in a Passat. Does that worsen the mileage on the car. That's what I was told about my BMW so I use premium, but my sister uses regular gas on her Audi A4 wagon.
It listed for $25,060 and they wanted $30,060. After 5 hours I got it for $27,060 + ~$200 for the rubber floor and trunk mats (they really wanted that $60 bucks, too). This was for a model that they had to bring in to california from texas. So, there were some import costs they had to incur. If I wanted the silver (instead of blue) one they had at the location I probably could have paid ~$500 - $700 less.
Also, I bought the extended 60k warranty for $1250 (down from $2200). That took a while, too. Wanted it for $800 but it wasn't in the cards
If anyone wants a manual silver TDI wagon with base options go to Steven Creek ASAP.
Can;t wait to pick it up at the end of the month.
How do you claim the $1300 tax credit????
Woohoo
For the one on their lot (due to supply/demand) they want 2 to 3 K over MSRP... and they claim they can get it - that would translate into appx 28 K before taxes and fees.
I found the styling of Wagon "cool" (as some teens would comment) - it's no longer soccer mom's taxi-type vehicle (never been in Europe anyway). It's a good alternative to small SUV with much better mileage although I would prefer Subaru Forester diesel. Last thing I've heard is that Subaru doesn't have the right automatic transmission to match their diesels (Subaru diesels running the 2nd year in Europe all have manual transmissions).
Hi Jogo,
Thought you might like to see the Subaru AWD Diesel wagon that they are quietly building at their plant in the U.S.A.
They ship them to Europe for sale over there.
I think they are a 2 ltr, 258 ft pounds of torqe, diesel boxer engine that gets about the same mpg's as the Jetta TDI's.
If they ever go on sale in North America, that will be my next new car.
Here's a quick look at how that's going down in England.
"The European Federation for Transport and the Environment (T&E) strongly supports stronger emissions standards but regrets the weakness of the Euro 5 and 6 standards, notably as regards NOx emissions, which it says cause smog, respiratory problems and acid rain. The NGO also deplores the fact that four-wheel drive vehicles have been allowed an additional three year transition period before having to comply with the new rules. "The Parliament, in its 'wisdom', has concluded that these unsafe, antisocial, heavily-polluting cars - should be allowed to pump lethal emissions into the air for an extended period," said T&E Director Jos Dings. He added that the new legislation created an "unbelievable situation" where Euro 6 standards, to be enforced after 2014, will be weaker than those in California and ten other American states (40mg/km for both petrol and diesel cars):
"An American consumer can buy a super-clean diesel today at their local dealer, while a German will have to wait until 2015 to buy something even remotely similar. There is simply no excuse for allowing Europe to lose its leadership in this area."
So it would seem that Subaru U.S.A. has found a temporary Euro market for a new vehicle that pollutes like our older VW TDI acid rain makers..
I was originally going to wait for Honda to release their diesel - last year they announced that the Acura TSX (European Accord) would be available with Honda's 'clean diesel'. But a couple of months ago Honda announced that, mainly due to current market conditions, they would delay the release for the foreseeable future. Too bad - the current 2.2 turbo-diesel Honda sells in Europe is pretty much the equal of VW's TDI.
VW's TDI was always my first choice, but I wanted to see and drive this new Acura (Honda), but no such luck this year.
Over the next few weeks, we'll keep the forum posted of our family's first impressions!
(up here they are ALL expensive!)
If I were in the market for a TDI type of new vehicle I would wait until the 2011's come out next fall. The next Gen. Jetta is supposed to be a little bigger all around, and will be a total re-do.
If you are referring to the new VW to be made in Chattanooga, there are many reasons to plan for the worst and hope for the best.
1. The plant is brand new, with brand new workers and a brand new design. I would not want to buy a first year design from a first year assembly plant.
2. VW has stated repeatedly that they are making the car appeal to American tastes to include more and bigger cupholders and handling that is not so firm, as well as making the vehicle bigger. So basically a supersized, numb and dumb version between a Jetta and Passat. VW CamCord?
3. Polo is coming. If Jetta is larger than what you need, (Jetta and Golf are larger and heavier and less fuel efficient that what I'd like) then Polo may merit consideration.
Pricing may improve, so that is good news, VW recognizes that they are priced higher than their competitors and they plan to reduce prices. Unfortunately it may come at the expense of content.
The Jetta is in the same bag as the Corolla, Mazda, Fiesta, Versa, Cavalier, and the list goes on...so getting out of that crowd is a must if VW is ever going to step up and start selling more cars.
I think their game plan is a good one to do that, my only hope is that the new JettaCamryCord will be up to the job.
My 2006 Mark 5 is already an orphan in VW's line up, hate to see them bomb with it's new replacement.
You are right tho about all the possibilites of disaster considering very few of the new workers will know what the hell they are doing, and VW will be using the buyers of this untried model as road testers.
What could go wrong with that... :lemon:
Satellite radio, bluetooth, 6 disk CD changer with IPOD interface and SD chip, 115V power supply, pano roof, leather multi-function steering wheel, high quality appearance inside and out, TDI with real world 30's in the city and 50mph highway, well designed controls and performance.
It's clear to me that the 2010 JSW TDI is not "in the same bag" as the cars you listed. The fact that VW lots are empty of this model suggests a lot of others agree with me on this one. I'm glad you're happy with your 2006, but I'd suggest you're wrong to disparage the newest JSW.