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Comments
-Brian
Jeez,
1. Look at the fuel economy of X5 6Cly compared to Tribeca.
2. Look at those prices of all SUvs mentioned in the article,
I don;t see why Tribeca can't compete comfortably with 40k sticker on fully loaded which can be bought at invoice of 37-38k.
look at those high40s, 50s, 60s & 70k mentioned in the article
Remember, people balked when the VDC broke the $30k barrier. For the Tribeca to break the $40k barrier would be repeating that mistake.
-juice
I think Juice is right about the 40K mark. Heading north of that would have been more than the badge could support. If Acura had taken the new RL up above 50K, they'd have the same problem.
That said, this higher price does get Subaru's foot in the door. They can focus on the 30-35K models in the first run. The Tribeca may not sell any of the NAV + RES units in the first years, but Subaru can build on the first model and push the 40-45K mark with the next generation.
I think Tribeca looks equally as good as pretigious brands.
Sly
I had them flash it specifically to check when I was at the Chicago show!
Look at the Pilot LX. If you find one, that is, they're so rare. An on-line dealer I saw had 100 Pilots and 93 were EX or higher.
I think we'll see a similarly low rate of "base" models, by that I mean cloth 5 seaters. Maybe 10%, what they call ad cars. Dealers get one so they can advertise "starting at $29,999" street price.
Then we'll see a few more 5 seat Limiteds, but mostly 7 seaters. And among those, very few with cloth, is my guess.
I'm not saying 40% will have DVD and Nav, but I do think 40% will have at least one of those two.
-juice
In the US, Jan 2005 saw Murano sales that were 44.4% better than Jan 2004 on a Sales Day adjusted basis.
http://www.nissannews.com
Click Corporate>Corporate News>'NNA Reports January Sales' Feb 1 2005
In terms of incentives, the current Murano offer (nationwide US) is 3.0% APR for up to 60 months. No Cash Back. Thats far less than what many others are offering, and similar to what Toyota is offering on the Highlander here in NJ ($750 Cash Back OR 2.9% to 48 Months, 3.9% to 60).
-Joe
I did bring that up to the Product Manager, and also perhaps a longer B2B warranty, perhaps to match Acura's 4/50. That would only be a small stretch.
He definitely had that on his mind, put it that way. I guess we'll see.
-juice
The B9 Tribeca is so content-rich that Saab won't be able to add too much to it. Look at the 9-2X and the 9-7X. The 9-2X is based on the pretty rich Impreza so Saab didn't do much more than nose job on it. The 9-7X is based on a much poorer GM vehicle so Saab actually did change more on it (e.g. they had to take some steps to improve the crashworthiness).
Since the B9 Tribeca won't need much improvement, we can probably expect a different front-end (which may be preferred by some who do not like the Tribeca's nose). Maybe a couple of more convenience features like memory seats, and different leather and materials. Some level of free scheduled maintenance, Saab warranty, etc. I wonder if they'd bother changing the dash to a Saab "cockpit" style one. I doubt it because the Tribeca's dash is great.
And then a price boost of several thousand dollars.
After it doesn't sell well, Saab will offer a lot of incentives to cut the price difference down somewhat.
So a low price and free service aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
steve: let us know when production actually ramps up so we have an idea of when they'll arrive in dealers.
-juice
I'm not sure how much monkeying around Saab could do with the architecture, but deleting the optional 3rd row and making the body even more compact is another possibility.
Does anyone know if you will able to option out a Tribeca with Sat Radio - either XM or Sirius?
do any other Subaru's have sat radio as an option?
You probably know my thoughts on the current gen Baja: great vehicle, I would own one but for the head in the roof.
John
I dunno, I don't think Saab has that much influence. We'll see.
-juice
It's a head-on collision. They both want to be in the same segment.
Had GM been involved earlier on, I could imagine Saab being the upscale Subaru, and Subies remaining more bare-bones. By that I mean thinner carpets and cheaper plastics along with less content.
But it's too late now, the Legacy and Tribeca are big departures from the old school Subies. To paraphrase Lucien out of context, they're "too nice" now.
9-2x was a sales disaster, they forecast 8000 and got about 2000. Why bother?
-juice
Amen.
Begs the question- exactly what WILL become of Saab?
~alpha
The TRIBECA will NOT be re-defining or leading the segment in the use of extra LATCH positions as compared to the norm. In fact, I saw only 2 positions on the cut away model displayed in Toronto - and darn it all, they wouldn't even let you near the 2 actual models that were on pedestal displays. Argh!
So we're looking at 2 spots only, as per the industry norm, being the 2nd row outboard positions. It would appear tether hooks are all around, but that was never the point of this line of inquiry.
I do note the SIENNA has 4 seats with LATCH, but in using the two 3rd row spots, you eliminate the 3rd seating spot in said 3rd row. The Odyssey has only one LATCH spot in the 3rd row, giving it three spots in total.
And having now clamboured through FORD's, Nissan's (** the ARMADA had lots of space, but big $$), Toyota's and Chrysler's choices (be they minivans or SUV's), I gotta say that if you need SMALL kids (under 5) in a car, with an extra grandparent or two, a minivan will beat out the TRIBECA.
It's a 5+2 ladies and gentleman, and calling it a seven seater is a misnomer. The same can be said for the Highlander, Pilot, XC-90 and Pacifica though. You can't put a grandparent in the back, but perhaps some nimble youngsters can squeeze in.
Perhaps SUBIE will make me a minivan now...? Here's hoping...
So the RX330 starts at about where the B9 Tribeca peaks out at. I think the B9 will do just fine.
Bob
Bob
Too much competition in the premium SUV market and the Tribeca offers nothing over its competitors.
Unless, of course, they stick a hybrid powertrain in it.
Mark
"Too much competition in the premium SUV market and the Tribeca offers nothing over its competitors."
Not nothing. It's relatively inexpensive for a feature-laden vehicle. Otherwise I agree. Most of the B9's advantages are very small. And it's soon to face a new round of competition.
Historically Subaru rarely introduces an all-new model, with all new running gear, all in the same year. The last Subaru to do that was the SVX back in '91.
I expect to see the following on the Tribeca, perhaps starting with MY07:
• A turbo trim level
• A larger displacement H-6. It's well known that they have a 3.6 H-6 in the works.
• Detail content upgrades such as xenon headlights, auto up/down window switches, and so forth.
Subaru does this intentionally. If you play all your cards in one year, you quickly lose the attention of the press for subsequent years. So Subaru—every year—"tweak" their model lineups, if for no other reason, to keep their name in the forefront with automotive news editors.
Also, Subaru knows that the MDX and a few others are up for a redesign soon. They want to see what these new cars offer, and then respond accordingly. It's nothing more than automotive leap-froging.
Bob
- new front end. :-)
Bill
Hybrid Highlanders and the RX400H will sell at full MSRP for the foreseeable future, and Toyota's going to rake in the bucks, no doubt.
But hybrids are aiming for, what, 2% market share in the near-term? Don't forget the other 98%. Even long-term we're talking 90% non-hybrids.
They just get a disproportionate amount of attention (hype, even). 12,000 deposits is great, but they sell that many F150s on a bad Thursday.
The other thing is street prices. We know the hybrids will sell for a full $48k plus, while street prices for the Tribeca will put it at $29-35k or so.
I don't think even the Highlander hybrid will overlap with those prices, because they tend to load them up.
To be honest the RX330 will probably give up those sales, not the Tribeca. The RX will be sandwiched in the middle of the two trendier Toyota hybrids.
-juice
FHI can't increase the EZ30's 89.2-mm (3.51) bore because there's only 9.2-mm (0.36-in) of metal separating the cylinder bores. FHI could increase the EZ30's stroke, but that would require raising it from 80-mm (3.15-in) to 96-mm (3.78-in) to achieve a 3.6L displacement. But FHI's been so enamored with oversquare engines for so long, I just can't see them "stroking" the EZ30 up to 3.6L displacement.
What if FHI simply added two cylinders to the 2.5 engine, similar to what they did to create the EG33D engine for the SVX? That's a lot more expensive so FHI would want to keep the 2.5L's bore and stroke, resulting in a 3.7L 6-cylinder engine that could only be used in the B9 (or SVX) because it's so long.
I believe the twin turbo 6-cylinder engine in the B11S was a 3.0L. Its power was rated as 294kw (394hp). That'd probably be sufficient for the B9 to outperform most competitors.
Ok, let me rephrase that:
• A larger displacement H-6. It's been rumored that they have a 3.6 H-6 in the works.
Bob
Using a technique similar to Honda's quad-sequential sleeve design, they might get the the distance between bores below 9mm. Honda got it down to 6mm. There's no reason why Subaru couldn't invest in developing their own method, or pay to use the patents.
The Tribeca basically has all the goodness of the high-end Legacy/Outback models (which are selling very well) and adds new capabilities and features. It will probably sell for the standard invoice to MSRP range for Subarus, but I doubt we'll see incentives and deep discounts a la Ford/GM.
Craig
CRaig
This would give it between 350-400 horse and of course a pretty flat tourque curve. Means tq should be about the same as the horsepower. It is the engine from the B11. It would be light fast and hopefully it will be next year!!!
With all 4 wheels pinching the ground better then any other suv on the planet and the boxer..it should out perfrom them all...mabye turbo Cayanne would be one better..if that??
BTW, I believe the 3.6 rumor originated not from nasioc, but from from one of the car magazines, some time ago. Which one, I don't remember?
As Jon mentioned, a 3.7 H-6 could be developed just by adding two more cylinders to the 2.5 H-4. That's certainly a possibility too.
3.7 H-6 based off the current 2.5 H-4: 2457cc + 1228.5cc = 3685.5cc.
Bob
Or we could see some form of the EJ257 turbo, maybe with 280-300hp if Subaru wanted to keep it affordable.
An STi could get the H6 and a turbo, but that would put prices in the $40s, and then everyone would be screaming about the price.
I bet there are several design studies going on simulateously. The ST-X had a supercharged engine that never made it to production. So just because a certain engine is rumored, even factual, does not mean it will make production.
-juice
Oh absolutely! I'm sure there are tons of engine studies going on that we will never hear about.
I don't think we'll see a H-4 of any kind in this vehicle.
Bob
A very good point.
A whole new block would be expensive. And it would make the current H6 more or less redundant. Engine blocks should last at least 8-10 years on the market before being replaced. They need to amortize the costs. Building an engine that ends of up being replaced in a few years smacks of poor product development. I give Subaru more credit than that. I think it's far more likely they have another solution in mind.
I don't agree with that. I think there's room for both engine blocks to exist.
I can see the 3.0 (small block) H6 in Legacys, Outbacks, and even Foresters. This engine was just redesigned last year, and I see a long future for it.
I can see 3.6/7 (large block) H6 in B9 and future larger Subarus, which most likely will be coming at some point.
Bob
The EJ series goes way back, but the turbos use a different block anyway.
-juice