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Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

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Comments

  • aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    Its normal for the ACC to switch modes while heating/cooling the car. Usually if you are heating your car because its cold outside, the system will wait till the engine warms up a bit before sending warm air straight to your feet first. Next it'll send some air to the windshield, and finally when the appropriate temperature is reached, the system will direct some air through the main vents.

    There is a "sunlight" sensor on the dashboard- this works in conjunction with the temperature sensor within the car. At certain temperature parameters, inside vs. outside and there is direct sunlight on the sensor, the flow of air can be re directed along with temperature changes to keep passengers comfortable- this is done completely automatically.

    The only qualm I have of the ACC is the fan speed cuts in too high to get to the desired temperature in a hurry- when using the hands free, it all but drowns out the phone conversation.

    AKA
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, just checked fitzmall.com and they are selling a bunch of left over 05 Touaregs for $6000 off MSRP.

    That's not what Piech had in mind!

    -juice
  • aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    I agree, I don't think Subaru needs a premium model lineup to succeed. The cost behind it would be staggering. I think Subaru's have always had a loyal fan base, now what they need to do is steer them to a different level.

    What they can do to compete with all the premium mfg's are first off totally restructure the dealerships. Provide a very very clean and new and advanced dealership experience. Follow Acura's lead in this one, very classy.

    Next, take the bumper to bumper warranty a step further: 4Years 50Kmiles- also include loaner cars as a courtesy to the customers.

    Finally, they need to throw a lot of money into advertising to get the word out; sponsor a few charity events, a few golf tournaments.... My biggest complaint about Subaru now is my actually dealership building, I hate walking through those doors, they have no cars on the showroom, no information stands etc.
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    Yeah, just checked fitzmall.com and they are selling a bunch of left over 05 Touaregs for $6000 off MSRP.
    That's not what Piech had in mind!
    -juice

    I am guessing they are losing on both that and their VW premium sedan. the quality of the Toureg is what turned me off. I guess not reliable so I went with the Subaru.

    I did like the Toureg when it first came out.

    the other reason you split off to a high end branding is that you can split the customer svc and sales. you want to provide a higher level (value add) to the customer buying your premium line. different warranties, different loaner cars, ect.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The problem with the whole upscale push is that Subaru owners had been picking the cars as the anti-luxury car. We can afford more, but we choose not to pay more.

    So it's ironic that they now offer more expensive choices within the brand. Are those same customers willing to move up now? Not as many as they thought.

    Tribeca's interior is phenomenal, but I wonder if it would have sold better with a cheaper, basic interior, as well as a lower price? Who knows.

    Hopefully the Forester can grow a bit and fill that gap.

    -juice
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    Here is one for $189... if I didn't mind losing the dimming mirror, I might look at this one..

    RearMirrorCam
  • dell128dell128 Member Posts: 11
    But is it normal to cut off recirc while temp and humidity are both high? That is what happened to me. During the summer in NJ I would start out on my 35 mile trip to work and about halfway there I go from comfortable 68F to an uncomfortable 68F as now I am getting hot humid air from outside. To counteract I turn on recirc and the auto light goes off. Does this mean I am now in manual mode? Should this matter? Will the manual control maintain 68F?
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    I think the bigger problem that plagues Tourage sales was not the price, it was the best looking and appointed SUV in in it price class.

    The problem was problems. The quality and reliability sucked. They were real headaches and from what I heard VW was not responsive to the problem.

    In addition there are things that an up scale buyer expects when spending 50K + for a car. One is a dealer that knows how to treat such a buyer. Many VW dealers were used to the less demanding typical buyer who never experienced the attention an up-scale dealer gives their buyers.

    The killer for me was the laughable Navigation system which was still using CD roms not DVD. It came with 5 discs that you had to change every few hundred miles. In addition the graphics looked like a grade schooler's work.

    So as someone who really wanted a Tourage - price was not an issue. I think I am fairly typical of a buyer in the 50 to 70 K range.

    I want a dependable car, with the latest technology and the dealer to treat me correctly. Subaru dealers leave a lot to be desired but for what I got for 35K I am not complaining.

    As much as I love my 35K B9 - I would have preferred to spend the 50K for the VW if it met my requirements.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Try googling Peter D. DeLorenzo

    I've read his rants - that's all he does. Also, he seems to recycle the same rants every few weeks. Yes Piech took VW off in a bad direction but DeLorenzo seems to forget the forays into Bentley and Lamborghini which have been successful.

    Although I have heard that DeLorenzo now also consults to the auto industry in addition to criticizing them as a journalist.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Even today, VW/Audi's NAV system stinks. I sampled MMI in a friend's S4 Cabrio, and he took seemingly 15 minutes to enter an address using that scroll button. It's ridiculous.

    The Tribeca's touch screen was sooo much easier to use. Bigger screen, too.

    It's funny, but even though the Germans have a more established rep for luxury, the Japanese cream them when it comes to some of the high-tech gadgets.

    And further to your point, they work reliably.

    -juice
  • aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    Yes the system will still maintain fan speed, and vent control to keep the temperature at where you set it.

    AKA
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I'll agree. I used the Nav in the 06 Passat when they gave me one as part of their Alpha Drivers program. It was difficult to use.

    juice - don't forget, the Japanese have always been masters of electronics.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, plus the Germans are too stubborn to give up on iDrive/MMI/whatever Mercedes calls their system.

    Touch screen/voice commands is so much easier, they need to wake up!

    -juice
  • aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    Lexus LS400, Infiniti Q45- Benchmark Mercedes Benz S430
    Lexus GS300, Infiniti M35- Benchmark BMW 535i
    Lexus IS350, Infiniti G35- Benchmark BMW 330i

    When BMW's and Benzes start looking to the Japanese for inspiration and direction and technology then you can consider the Japanese to "cream" the Germans. Right now, it takes the Germans to introduce technology in their cars, the Japanese take German ingenuity and make it reliable. Audi's MMI interface may be difficult for some to understand, but the system is FAR FAR superior to anything Subaru has now- the amount of computing power and the amount of control the driver has over the car is mind boggling. Like any system, there is a learning curve- it took me a few times to figure out all the funx. on my B9, the same with MMI or iDrive.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    More complex is not necessarily better.

    An example - Mercedes streamlined some features on the S class and eliminated some 600 "features" of their system. It was too complex and too many things could go wrong.

    Makes you wonder what those 600 things were, and how often (if ever) they were used.

    There's something to be said about KISS.

    Also, Lexus leads the segment in the case of the RX. Hybrids, too. You only listed traditional German segments.

    -juice
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    well let me throw my $0.005 (thats half of a cent ;) ) in...

    the NAV system on the B9 - Interface Good (approaches the Acura level of ease).
    Performance = Poor. the computer in the system and programming is very very poor. slow on rerouting, also 5% to 10% of routes are not optimal even taking into account the 3 methods. especially the quickest method does not weigh in road size as much as it should. ie. highways over state roads over side roads...

    missing the tech bells and whistles needed on a high end vehicle (bluetooth handsfree), (voice controlled NAV + linked to Cell Phone Bluetooth address book), locking dual zone temp control, showing outside temp on Nav Map screen), back up camera, A/V inputs in the front arm rest area...

    HID lights ... 5.1 surround sound stereo
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Keep in mind this was their first attempt. It took Acura a while to get the MDX up to that level, not to mention it costs more.

    Plus, Subaru does have the biggest DVD screen in SUV-dome and VDC is among the premiere AWD systems.

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Keep in mind this was their first attempt. It took Acura a while to get the MDX up to that level, not to mention it costs more.

    Since Acura and Honda are already on V2, why is Subaru introducing 3 year old technology today? If you're going to be late to the game, you might as well bring the good stuff.

    Plus, Subaru does have the biggest DVD screen in SUV-dome

    That screen has to block rear view vision - it would drive me nuts.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Has Bluetooth been around for that long? It probably has, but it's still not widespread even today.

    We just replaced a fleet of BlackBerries at work, went with 7290 models. It only came out in summer '05. The 7100T also only came out this year (now the 7105T is out). No BlackBerry had it when the Tribeca debuted in January at NAIAS, I know because I was there and would have been using my Bluetooth headset (which I only got this summer)!

    So it was only becoming widespread in phones as the Tribeca came out, not before.

    As for the DVD, how often do you back up? Once, at the beginning of a trip. Tilt it up, no big deal, you can reach it easily.

    I was actually able to peek around it, so that was a non-issue for me. And we used the DVD the entire 4 days, even had to replace the batteries on the headphones.

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Has Bluetooth been around for that long? It probably has, but it's still not widespread even today

    I was speaking in terms of overall technology - Honda has offered NAV for at least five years. I wasn't even thinking of Bluetooth - I was thinking voice activated. That's at least since the 03 Accord.

    As for bluetooth, Acura had it in the 2004 TL that came out 2 years ago so bluetooth has been around at least that long.

    As for the DVD, how often do you back up? Once, at the beginning of a trip. Tilt it up, no big deal, you can reach it easily.

    Backing up isn't the concern, it's general driving. I use my rearview mirror constantly. I like to be able to see if someone is on my tail or coming up fast.
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    Bluetooth has been probably in the last two model years of cars and really more widely available this year.

    the thing about the DVD/Nav is that they (subaru) doesn't develop it. They buy it from Kenwood! so why did they buy a cheaper model without all the features on the current Kenwood NAV systems. or why not go with Alpine who has a much better computer (based on my experience with both in the same areas around Pittsburgh).
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Did anyone at Subaru float the name BS9?

    You laugh - look at this:

    Lexus to Launch Compact Luxury Model by 2008 (Inside Line)

    Steve, Host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Gotcha, Rob. They were not that many Bluetooth phones on the market that long ago. Honda was really on the ball, a pioneer.

    I recall my old Director had one of the first BT phones and a Windows CE device, but it was dead slow when they tried to work together. That was more than 2 years ago because he's long gone.

    As for the rear view mirror, I must drive faster than you! LOL

    Lexus BS? And it's not an April Fools' joke? :confuse:

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Now that I think about it I recall a business associate from the UK using a bluetooth PDA and phone while visiting us here in the colonies. That was April 2003.

    Europe and Asia are way ahead of us in adopting those technologies.
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    What is the history of Bluetooth?
    Bluetooth was initiated by Ericsson, IBM, Intel, Nokia and Toshiba in early 1998. The Bluetooth 1.0 specifications were released on July 26, 1999. BT 1.1 was the first real stable release.. I am guessing around 2001

    BT 1.1 is what most of us are using and BT 1.2 is only out on the New Nokia N phones. BT 2.0 is faster but no body but I think Apple has a BT 2.0 device.

    The Bluetooth name refers to King Harald "Bluetooth" Blaatand, a famous Danish king of the 10th century, who unified Denmark and Norway. In the beginning of the Bluetooth wireless technology era, Bluetooth was aimed at unifying the telecom and computing industries.

    2003 BMW had BT car options
    2004 Preius and Lexus LS had BT options
    2004 1/2 Chryslers had their BT U-Connect Option ...
    so its not all that new :(
  • movedormovedor Member Posts: 65
    As for the DVD, how often do you back up? Once, at the beginning of a trip. Tilt it up, no big deal, you can reach it easily.


    No, that's not how the trip-with-small-kids workflow goes. Before you start the car, you have to make sure everything for the kids is ready: buckled, juice at hand, movie playing. Only then you can start and back the car out of that parking space.

    WRT DVD for 5 pass, I like the Murano's approach better. The display comes out of the center console, which doesn't get in the way for driver's rear view. It wouldn't work for 3rd row in the 7 pass, but then you can have a 2nd display there too (imagine your dog in the trunk watching the movie too :) ). However the existing center console in the Tribeca can't quite accommodate its 9" display the way Murano does. But that kind of problem must be a candy bar for Subaru engineers to solve. The other benefit of having the DVD display down in the center console is a larger sunroof, like the Outback has. Now that would be nice.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks for the history lesson.

    I think it really only started to become mainstream this year, 2005. That's when most phone started to offer it, even then not the free ones.

    Malibu Maxx has the DVD screen down low like that also. But my kids would kick it. In fact - they do. The rear cup holder on my Forester gets positively abused. It still works, but just barely. An LCD screen would be toast by now, no question.

    If they move it, I'd rather see it on the back of the headrests.

    Saw the 'beca on C&D Television today, pretty good review. I had it on TiVo so I showed my wife that segment, and she liked it too. We both remember our 4-day adventure fondly. Plus the black looks niiiice.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    That's funny, I just finished watching C&D on my TiVo too.

    Craig
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    I took my Beca to an empty parking lot and started to toss it around. This is my first SUV since 92 when I had a V8 Grand Cherokee LTD with quadra track.

    I had a lot of fun tonight but was somewhat surprised how long it took for traction systems to kick in. From a dead stop I would tromp it and the wheels started spinning and on average it was taking almost 2 second for the traction controls to kick in. Even with them engaged I could make it fish tail and do doughnuts. Two seconds doesn't sound like much but when you are sliding around a corner it seems forever.

    Is this normal. I don't remember my jeep doing that. Even with the V8 it was hard to make it fish tail.

    Any thoughts?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Might it be the wide 255 tires? Wide tires are almost always worse than narrow tires in snow. Your GC had 225 wide tires. Did your GC have AT tires? if so, they are also better in the snow than AS tires, which the B9 has.

    Bob
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    I hope Subaru VDC systems are not designed by the same engineers who designed the Subaru climate control disaster.
    :sick:
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    just dont be ummm (unsmart) and test it in a parking lot you dont know whats under the snow. I read somewhere where a guy hit the parking lot stopper that some lots have at the front of each parking space. they were hidden under the snow :(
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    I agree.

    If he went to parking lot that he was not familiar with - he deserved to hit them. That's like diving into the water and not knowing how deep it is.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Try turning VDC off and then you'll have a good comparison.

    From a dead stop, if you stomp it and all wheels spin, it certainyl takes the system a while to kick in. If you're already traveling at a set speed and then slippage occurs under real world conditions (ie, not all wheels slipping at once), the system will be probably be quicker to react.

    In my experience, if you drive a Subaru sensibly in the snow, it will be virtually unstoppable. Like any car, it can spin/slip if you are too agressive with the throttle or brakes.

    Craig
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    Thanks that makes sense,

    Next time I will try that and see what happens and will post the results.
  • robbie2005robbie2005 Member Posts: 6
    You can access the diagnostic menu this way:

    . Press Menu
    . Press and HOLD above the "Stored Locations" for 5 seconds
    . Enter PIN Code: 041220
    . Press Ok

    You now can access the various functions - I don't think it helps much - but, it's fun.

    I didn't figure this out -- I found it posted on a Chevy board while I was looking for a way to disable the data entry lockout while the vehicle is in motion.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    had the B9 out last night with snow falling, lots of SUVs going 20-30mph (?why??), while I was flying at 40+ in the B9 with Nokian tires, left the wife back there somewhere in the minivan with snow tires, at least her traction control actually works!
    The thing is like riding on rails, almost as good as my legacy or WRX on snowtires.Dunno what it would be like on the stock goodyears though.
  • cluelesspacluelesspa Member Posts: 648
    cool! what functions are there on the NAV diagnostic screen? have to check it out today after work ;)
  • morey000morey000 Member Posts: 384
    Sounds great cptplt, but realize that all cars have 4 wheel brakes. So- just being able to *go* faster, doesn't mean that you'll be able to *stop* faster.

    Maybe all those other SUV's going only 20-30mph were just being a bit more conservative than you. Doesn't mean that they weren't *capable* of travelling faster.

    But- glad that the B9 inspires confidence.
  • vger105vger105 Member Posts: 57
    I just finished reading Motor Trend's article in which they selected the "SUV of the Year." Each "entrant" had a one page spread devoted to it, and Motor Trend was not kind to our Tribeca.
    In rating various aspects of the SUVs, the Tribeca received one star (out of five) for design, three stars for engineering, two stars for performance, two stars for "off road," four stars for safety, and 2 1/2 stars for value.
    They said "There's a curious lack of focus about the Tribeca..." and "...Subaru has created a vehicle that lacks the ingredients that made Subarus so appealing in the first place."
    Motor Trend selected the Xterra as "SUV of the Year." In 1977 (I believe) they selected the Cheverolte Caprice as the "Car of the Year."
    'Nuff said.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    VDC will try to adjust the power split first, in other words the system lets the AWD act before the traction control system kicks in and retards any momentum you might have built up. Plus it's more fun that way. ;)

    If you want an aggressive VSC system, try Toyota's, though it tends to spoil all the fun, even reducing the max lateral grip you can obtain.

    Car mags should avoid trying to rate "design". That's so subjective that it can throw off the numbers and reduce the signicifance of the objective data they gather.

    -juice
  • kmartinkmartin Member Posts: 427
    The PIN doesn't seem to work on my vehicle. The options are all the same as before. I wonder if the number is different for each VIN?

    -Karen- in AZ-
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    point well taken , the reason I always get snowtires is as much for the braking as the traction, those guys weren't able to get off the line at the lights either, you could see wheels spin on some!
    the dumbest thing I ever did was drive DesMoines to Chicago in a snowstorm after the plows were pulled in my Legacy , lots of cars esp SUVs, pickups and semis in the ditch specifically because they couldn't stop! But the Scooby got me through in one piece!
  • fljoslinfljoslin Member Posts: 237
    Any time that you drive at a significantly different speed to the average traffic speed you are a hazard. This is the greatest causes of wrecks. Lets say that I was driving along nicely at close to the traffic speed (20-30 mph) and decided that I wanted to get into the lane you were in. Presumably visibility was relatively poor and I may see you or not, but would assume that you were driving at a similar speed to me, prudent for the conditions.
    I would get rear-ended by you and you would get cited for driving too fast for conditions, which you were. It is not about you and how fast you feel comfortable driving. It is about driving on a road with traffic.
    BTW, I live in E Washington where we have had 1 1/2 feet of snow in the last week with temps remaining below freezing. All of the side streets and parking lots are sheet ice. I saw some bafoon in a Subaru T-bone someone right in front of me as I was dropping my daughter off at her day care. His comment was I have 4 wheel drive with studded snows, but she was in my way. DUH!!!
  • robbie2005robbie2005 Member Posts: 6
    I transposed - the PIN is 014220 - I'll see if I can go back and correct my original message - don't know how to do that - sorry!
  • robbie2005robbie2005 Member Posts: 6
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    your points are well taken but I was hardly the only car going at the speed I was going, in fact the majority were going at my speed, including every UPS truck still out there that night who were heading back to their depot - now those were the cars to steer well away from! and quite honestly the conditions were appropriate for the speed we were at on most of the roads, the snow had let up and visibility was good, there was maybe two or three inches on the ground which had not been plowed yet in the center lanes and the outside ones had been compacted down somewhat. if you had zero traction though like I may have had with my WRX with summer tires , then yes, I should have been going at 20 - or more likely not even able to get out of the driveway! sheet ice is a whole different ball game, ain't nuthin you can drive safely on that stuff!
    going too slow for the conditions can be dangerous too!
    the problem is that there are too many people driving around in cars with minimal to no tread left who also have minimal idea about the capability of their cars even when their tires are decent. Since I haven't had an accident in over 25 years I must be doing something ok or just plain incredibly lucky!
  • b9ctb9ct Member Posts: 16
    I picked up my new B9er today and love it. However, the lack of power under various driving circumstances is noticeable. Is there an engine upgrade available or on the drawing board like the John Cooper Works upgrade available on the Mini Cooper?
  • aka1aka1 Member Posts: 110
    Any engine upgrades are mere speculation at this point... Realistically I don't foresee any engine modifications for at least 2years, ie MY2008- and even with that, maybe a little bit more of displacement and a more aggressive variable valve timing to develop more torque and HP.

    Congrats on the new car! My B9 still smells new every time I open the door, I wish I could keep it that way...

    In the meantime, shift the gear lever to the left to activate the "sport" mode, this actually helps with holding gears till higher RPMS and kicks down gears faster to get out of corners in a real hurry!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There hasn't been a lot of H6 owners that were much into mods, mostly those are the turbo owners. But search around, you might find some things, like underdrive pulleys, intake kits, cat-back exhausts, stuff like that.

    Odds are you'll trade off NVH for the extra power, though. The H6 is tuned for smooth and quiet operation.

    -juice
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