Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I remember that green, and as I recall, it wasn't too savory.

    If anyone ever gets the chance, find a copy and read the book "Car" by Mary Walton. It documents the development of the '97 Taurus and Sable. There is quite a bit of information in the book about the decision making process surrounding the fabric colors and styles. What looked good when proposed by the vendor looked downright hideous in production.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    My car has a very dark grey interior, an unusual color, and it goes well with the dark grey paint. It's not very imaginative though.

    Beige is making its way into more MB as time goes on - I forget the color name (I want to say "almond") but I have seen it in E and C class especially. There used to be kind of a creme colored interior as a special order option - I think it looks great with the lighter blue metallic paint that was offered in the 80s and early 90s.

    White paint is now trendy on highline cars, too.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Along with balance and blueprint (tolerancing) we used to port and polish the heads and manifolds. This involved polishing the interior portions of the castings (head, intakes) and "porting" or checking for exact alignments of the openings between the assemblies such as where the air/fuel mixture passes from the intake manifold to the heads. Now days, probably not so much of an issue, but back in the day you could get many thousandths of mis-alignment in the "ports".
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Engines breath way better than they used to, that's true, and the science of combustion has come a long, long way.

    Remember when "one HP per cubic inch" was thought to be absolutely amazing?
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    I remember it well. The saying was that you couldn't get more than 1HP per CI without turbo or supercharging.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    The saying was that you couldn't get more than 1HP per CI without turbo or supercharging.

    Isn't the Honda S2000 the current king of this metric? Initially, it was 240HP from 2.0L (122 cubic inches), but now the engine has been enlarged to 2.2L (134 ci).

    Still, 1.8HP per ci isn't too shabby.

    Maybe some Ferrari engines do better, but the Honda engine is the one that sticks out for me.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    There are a couple of engines out there much less exotic than the S2000 that pull this off. The Hyundai 2.0L (121CI) is rated at 138HP.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,174
    While many engines now get more than 1 hp/ci, I think the S2000 has the highest hp/ci.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    the Porsche 908 from the 1970s produced 370 HP from 183 cid.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    Its a shame I'm not ready to buy my new daily driver just yet.
    Nice looking Golf

    Not bad for a '92 Civic

    Or how about something outside the box?

    OK. Maybe pushing it for a "daily driver"

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,174
    You had me going for a second with that VR6 Corrado. I've always liked them, but I wouldn't want a 'project car' with a 'reconstructed title', with much of the car in primer. And it looks like it's riding 2" too high, or the wheels/tires are 2" too small. Too bad.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    I'm glad you're a glutton for punishment (i.e., hoopties) like I am.

    I've had several VWs similar to that GTI (85 Golf 4-door, 85 Jetta GL four-door, 89 Golf 4-door, 91 GTI 16v, all 5-speeds); fun cars to drive, but ALL had the annoying recurring door latch problem (can't open from outside), a couple had leaky sunroofs, the GTI was just a lemon from Hell. That said, I'd probably still buy one, I just loved the whole package (great design, decent MPG, space efficient, fairly durable interiors save for the door latch thing, not too prone to rust, did I mention fun?). I t-boned a semi truck in the '85 Golf, in the rain (he pulled out in front of me), going about 35 and the car was drivable, and not even too deformed, after.

    Never liked that era Civic too much, they ride WAAAYY too low for me, I'm kind of a chair-height seat kinda guy. That one looks alright, though I hate that early-90s almost-aqua blue on ANY car. And in Chicago, they're all rustbuckets and/or have neon green interior pieces and stickers in both Japanese and Spanish. No can do.

    I never see Corrados any more, except for the guy who owns the hair salon next to the bar I go to (got that?).....his is an earlier (G60, supercharged, red) in OK shape, nothing super special, except that it exists at all. :confuse:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    GTI has a Hyundai radio :confuse:

    Claims to be low mileage, but doesn't look pristine...those front seat covers look terrible.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    One that was lucky not to be clunked...not sure that color is correct, and the car is about as "AMG" as my left pinkie finger - I am pretty sure those wheels are from a 1998-99 CLK320.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I was thinking the same thing. The wheels are off a base CLK. Back in the 80s MB never sold actual AMG vehicles through their showrooms iirc. Any AMG mods were after market weren't they?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,008
    that one, I like. Although I expect there is a certain amount of gilding on the old pig, but at least it doesn't look ratty. I noticed the Hyundai DIY radio conversin too.

    I wanted one of these bad back in the day (my early new car life). Even had a deposit on a silver one like this at least once, but had issues selling my other car IIRC. Or I got cheap, also a possibility!

    If I stumbled upon one locally, and got a good vibe from the owner, and it was cheap, I would be stupid enough to but it as a semi-daily drivier (especially since I have a spare Acura in the garge!)

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    Yep...some dealers had independent agreements AMG I think, but many AMG sellers weren't even main dealers. IIRC the first AMG car to be sold through all MB dealers officially was the C36 back in 1995.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ....I'm guessing those CLK wheels are 16's, while standard 300E wheels are 15s, which may account for it looking 'lowered'. It doesn't appear to have any other AMG parts (body or otherwise). BTW, were 300Es even 'clunkable' (based on gas mileage)? They had to be pretty close....my 528e was NOT (even the automatic), though admittedly it does have 50 fewer HP than a 300E.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ....I'm guessing those CLK wheels are 16's, while standard 300E wheels are 15s, which may account for it looking 'lowered'. It doesn't appear to have any other AMG parts (body or otherwise). BTW, not sure if 300Es (18 combined) were even 'clunkable' (based on gas mileage)? They had to be pretty close....my 528e was NOT (even the automatic, @19 combined), though admittedly it does have 50 fewer HP than a 300E....I think they had to be under 18. Water under the bridge at this point, anyway.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    Yeah, that's right regarding the wheel size and why it might look lowered. That car also has no visible AMG body parts whatsoever. There were AMG bodykits for the W124, they are not even terribly uncommon.

    I think the W124 did qualify for C4C, I know I saw a wagon slated for C4C death on youtube.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ....though perhaps the wagons (as well as the later 24v versions) may have crossed below the threshold for C4C if the regular 'older' (non 24v) 300s and 260Es did not?

    As for W124 AMGs, our 'local' rock star's wife had one (he had a non-AMG 420SEL, she had a very Miami Vice-looking all-white 300E AMG, circa 1986 when both were introduced in the U.S.). Did one just order through the MB dealer, or was it necessary to take the car to an AMG shop (I do remember there being at least one in the Chicago area....I want to say near Oak Brook)?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    Per the CARS site, a 1986 300E is/was eligible and a 1988 260E is not - I checked no others. Per Edmunds all 1990-95 E class are eligible. Funny thing, the CARS lists the 5-speed option for those cars, which virtually does not exist. Luckily, the manual doesn't qualify, so these wouldn't be clunked.

    I think after a certain point some dealers had agreements with AMG to sell trim options on cars. Before this, it was done by regional shops - I think these were connected to grey-market importers so common until around 1986 or so. If a car had AMG engine tuning - most AMG cars of this era seem to be trim enhancements and not engine modifications, I would guess the distributor would have to advise what to do. I can't imagine a dealer smiling about fixing one of those gigantic 6 liter units.

    IIRC the east-of-the-Rockies AMG distributor in North America was in the Chicago area. I have some period material, I will check it when I am home.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    .....I'm virtually certain that they were only sold in the U.S. from '86-89 (with the 12-valve engine), and personally, I've only seen them (on eBay and such) in '86-87. They have to be very rare, though not necessarily 'desirable' (MB has never been known for its wonderful manual transmissions).

    As for the AMGs, I think the 300E with the 6-liter was known as the 'Hammer', but they have specific body treatments; I doubt many exist today, at least not running the streets (and they cost something like $180k way back then!!).
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think the original "Hammer" was a 230CE, available with engines up to 6 liters (Yikes!).
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Here is one for sale.

    http://germancarsforsaleblog.com/1987-mercedes-amg-hammer-300e-60-for-sale-in-ca- lifornia/
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Interesting car but asking price is sheer lunacy and you can probably forget about ever registering it in California.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Just noticed it was posted back in Nov not even on Ebays site anymore
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I'm sure some dealers had AMG upgrades available at the dealership but none were factory installed until the C36 AMG like you said.

    A lot of people don't have a clue what they're selling I guess, like the Alfa 164 Spider I posted on Obscure car thread (I emailed her btw, pointing out the errors), or this seller with an AMG E class.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Found two interesting sites doing that search for the hammer.

    http://germancarsforsaleblog.com/

    some interesting but probably over priced cars there.

    I like the M Coupe but that seems like a good bit too much money for one even if it is that rare. http://germancarsforsaleblog.com/2002-laguna-seca-blue-s54-z3-m-coupe-for-sale-i- n-burlingame-california/

    http://bringatrailer.com/

    also that bring a trailer site looks interesting.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hey someone should start a new topic called "Spot the Error in the Ad"

    Something like this:

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1385098954.html

    The only problem with this kind of topic is that the ads will expire and so all the links will go dead for the entire topic.

    So maybe not such a good idea... :cry:
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,174
    That M coupe is interesting, especially (for me) the 'no sun roof'. As for $29k, C&D had it in their 'best used cars for $20' list, so it's high, but maybe worth a bit more than $20k.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    Spot the error...."Collectors/hobbyist item" :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    I think I've only seen 1 or 2 manual W124s on ebay, yeah. Maybe not desireable, but so rare that it would be a shame to lose the last one. Of course, they are very common in Europe.

    The Hammer was a legend, and the price was exactly as you mention. There are a few around, in coupe and wagon form too.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    I remember when the car was on ebay. I think a realistic price is maybe 30K or so.

    The Hammer legend is cool, but for 80s AMG I am still lured to a widebody C126. A nice one brought something like 27K on ebay last year.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    Sometimes even dealers don't know what they are selling...I see some odd ads in the local free used car rags too.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    Spot the error....

    Well, ONE of MG's errors was putting those huge rubber bumpers on the car... but I don't think they made that particular error until after 1974....

    Does this count as an error?

    Will be a classic in three months. ;)

    http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/cto/1388164315.html
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, the MG can't be a '74. It's been for sale forever. I wouldn't give you $50 for it personally.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    I don't know if there's an error in the wording of the ad but after that.... I don't even know where to start.

    The pictures? The price? The car itself? The concept of the car itself? The idea it's collectible?

    http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1388387910.html
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,006
    you sure it not a golf when you go in, and GTI when you come out? ;)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,006
    my wife had an 83 celica gt with a 5 speed. it was never an inspiring car to drive.
    gt-s was a step up, but with an auto trans, it's a snoozer.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,174
    I think the '3 months' is how long 'till that Celica's 25 years old. And $2400 doesn't seem like a bad price, but the only '85 Toyota I'd want is the Supra, black, with those wheels.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,008
    Hey, the other car I wanted but never bought at that time. I would buy that too if it was local, and had a 5 speed.

    alos, he was just unclear. The car will not be any more collectible in 3 months, but it will be 25 YO, so it can probably be registered that way.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    Perhaps the most atrocious looking thing on ebay right now
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    While I agree the paint job is not to my tastes, I admire the guy for the legwork he did in confirming what he had. I wonder what color it was originally?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    Yeah maybe I was too harsh...the historical research on it is commendable and the preservation appears pretty amazing too.

    The colors just hurt my eyes :shades:
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,342
    Being a PPG car I am not surprised at the colors. Today it would probably be some crazy burnt orange/lime green combo. All those companies go for over the top color combos.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    How wildly overpriced is this?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,732
    If someone offered him 10% of his price he'd be dumb not to take it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Sheesh! This guy is smoking blunts the size of telephone poles! It's a pedestrian 4-door sedan. It appears to be a nice daily driver but it's not like it's a Cale Yarborough or Dan Gurney Mercury Cyclone! Drop the one off the front of the price and you're still being too generous!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Fair Market Value for a '71 Montego sedan in clean, #3 driver condition (high average condition) would be about $1800. So it's only overpriced by 700%.

    But given that anything on 4 wheels in America that is clean and runs well is worth $2000-$2500, and that old cars do have a sentimental charge that overcomes rationality sometimes, he might squeeze a bit more out of it than $1800.
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