Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

andre1969 · January 2013

About the full garages, many people overestimate the value of their flea market at best quality clutter.

I know the value of some of the stuff in my garage is questionable...including my '79 5th Ave! :P

There's an old tv set out there from, I'd guess, the 1950's or maybe even the late 40's. My roommate's parents gave it to him, and I let him keep it out there. I have no idea if it works, but I guess it's probably worth something. There's also an old sewing machine, in the stand, that's God-only-knows how old. And an old typewriter that I think was my Grandmother's, back in the 40's. Couple of old vanity/dressing tables from, I'd guess, the 1930's or 40's.

I also have the original 2-bbl intake manifold from my '67 Catalina. It had already been rebuilt and converted to a 4-bbl before I bought it, but the intake, as well as other various parts, were in the trunk in a box. Couple of 4-bbl intake manifolds that would fit a Mopar smallblock. There's a chair out there that somebody gave me awhile back, that will probably never be used. I don't need it for the house, so I just threw it out in the garage, figuring one day it would "become useful".

My mother gave me her old circa 1969 dining room table and chairs when I bought my condo in 1994. But she kept the china cabinet, saying I could have it "one day". Well, when I had to move out of the condo after the divorce, the table and chairs went into storage at my grandmother's, and was left there when I was able to move back to the condo. I now have the table in my kitchen, although it's a bit too big for it. The chairs are balanced up in the rafters (well trusses, actually) of the garage, as they're kind of bulky, so I just use some smaller kitchen table chairs.

I think I get a lot of packrat mentality from my grandparents, who remember the Depression vividly enough that they rarely throw things away that "could" become useful one day.

Only thing is, often that "one day" never comes. Last year, I had this beat-up early 70's Lazy Boy recliner in my bedroom that was pretty beat-up. But it was comfortable. Well, it had a habit of gathering clothes, and the cats had been using it as a scratching post. Finally decided to throw it out last spring. I almost felt bad at first, throwing away something that had been in the family and survived nearly 40 years. But, once it was gone, I felt good. And my bedroom seemed a bit bigger. And I don't miss it one bit. Even typing about it now, and bringing the memory of it back up, I can still say I'm glad I got rid of it!

One reason I've held off on adding onto the house, garage, storage shed, etc is that it seems like no matter how much storage space I have, build more and it will somehow get filled up!

My old condo was 1254 square feet, plus a ~200 square foot garage. I went from that to a ~1500 square foot house, with a 12x16 workshop, and then had a 24x40 garage built, and yet managed to get it all filled up!

fintail · January 2013

So you might have a few hundred dollars worth of stuff stored away. Better than those who have similar stuff and spend $200/month on a storage unit, anyway. At least it takes many years of garage rent to approach the value of my old car :shades: - spare parts for it are kept in the trunk.

A little over 7 ago, I moved from a ~1200 sq ft condo (got out just before the market peaked, not the worst move) to an apartment half that size, and got rid of 80% of my stuff before the move. It was a liberating feeling. My collector/packrat mother has piles of furniture and clutter acquired over the decades - I have made it known I don't want much of any of it when the time comes. One good thing about living in a small place, it limits the accumulation.

andre1969 · January 2013

One good thing about living in a small place, it limits the accumulation.

Yeah, that's definitely true. I have a friend who lives in a condo in Washington DC, and every time he buys something new, he always tries to get rid of something old...even if it's still in good shape.

We're about the same size, so when he decides to get rid of his old dress shirts, he'll let me go through them and pick out anything I want, before donating the rest of him. Now me, I'll usually wear a shirt until it gets a rip in it, which is usually at the elbows. And even then, I'll often just cut the sleeves off and use it like a vest...obviously I'm no longer wearing it to work by then! :P But, the stuff he gets rid of, usually looks brand-new! But, it's just that he has limited space, so if he buys a new shirt, he almost HAS to get rid of the old one.

I'm sure eventually I'll downsize, but I'm not looking forward to it!

Oh, and how's this for bad: A few years back, a friend of mine was thinking about selling his '78 Mark V Diamond Jubilee, as he had bought a nicer one and didn't need the "old" one anymore. I had actually considered buying it, just so I'd have something to take to the Ford show in Carlisle! Fortunately I didn't, as it ultimately threw a rod. And, while it was pretty nice when he bought it, it seemed to deteriorate FAST sitting outside.

And now, for the Ford show, Lemko puts his Grand Marquis in, so we have that covered!

michaellno · January 2013

My wife is the anti pack rat. We did some home improvement over the holidays - painting, new kitchen backsplash - and so we 'redecorated' the family room.

Bought a new (smaller) TV - the old one went to a friend of our daughters. Moved some furniture around, and ended up with an extra chair and ottoman - again, daughters friend took the old stuff. A Target sourced storage unit went to the curb. Books were packed away.

Every new purchase of furniture results in the old stuff being given away. Our kids - and their friends - are happy to take it off our hands.

fintail · January 2013

When you are thinking of buying a car just to have something to take to a show, you know you have a problem

I take stuff to Goodwill every couple years, usually does the trick.

andre1969 · January 2013

I was real proud of myself a couple weeks ago. We got a new tv for the living room, so the old one replaced the one in my bedroom. In the past, I would have probably just held onto the one from the bedroom, "just in case", but my roommate said he knew someone who wanted a tv, and was willing to buy a used one. So, we let her have it for $100. She thought the price was too low, but we explained to her that it was over 4 years old, and not a very high quality model by today's standards (Dynex 42" 1080 LCD). Don't remember if it was a 1080p or 1080i. It was about $850 when new (with a 5 year extended warranty), but nowadays, I imagine a comparable tv would be about $300 at best?

Anyway, I didn't want to charge *too* much, because I'd feel guilty if it died on her!

So, that was one minor victory in the war on clutter. However, it was canceled out by something I just did during lunch. I replaced an old shelving/storage unit in the house with something that was a bit more compact, and useable, on Monday. We dragged the old unit out onto the deck, and at first I figured I'd put it down in the garage, but then I figure it's old, a bit ratty, so why not just bust it up either chuck it or burn it? Well, I had decided to get rid of it. But then today, during lunch, I noticed it looked like it was going to rain, so I'm ashamed to say, I got the hand truck and hauled it down to the garage.

Oh well. Baby steps, I guess...

andre1969 · January 2013

I take stuff to Goodwill every couple years, usually does the trick.

Yeah, I do that, too, although lately I've been ramping it up to once per year. In 2011, everything fit fine in the Buick. In 2012, I had the Ram pretty fully loaded.

When you are thinking of buying a car just to have something to take to a show, you know you have a problem

So, what your'e saying is that I should go check out that green Lincoln?

BTW, my friend with the Mark V just sent a message back saying, simply, "looks really nice". So I guess he's learned a little restraint, as well. However, at this point I think what he really wants is a Mercury Colony Park wagon, fully loaded, in that light jade green, so while this Lincoln was the right color, it's still not what he really wants. Plus, he doesn't have the place to store a lot of stuff, either. He rents a space in somebody's garage for his Mark V. His townhouse has a 1 car garage, but it's barely big enough to fit his 2002 5-series.

fintail · January 2013

That green Lincoln was probably a good deal if it is as nice as it looks.

Does he want a 70s model Colony Park? Survival rate on those has to be much lower than Lincolns - he will be looking for awhile if he is picky about color. And indeed, modern garages don't fit things like that - I can't imagine it in the underground garage in my building, where the spots seem to be of variable size and some are only fit for subcompacts.

andre1969 · January 2013

Yeah, it's a '70's model he's fixating on. Don't know if he has a specific year, but probably whatever years they used that light jade green color. He doesn't really care about the choked down engines of the later years...he's more concerned about the luxury trappings.

When he was a kid his parents had a Country Squire in that color, so that's probably where the fond memories come from.

tjc78 · January 2013

Probably will be searching awhile for that CP!

I emailed the seller of that Lincoln asking for some details. I just realized that ad was from early December. If it was as nice as it looked, I doubt he would still have it.

fintail · January 2013

I can't recall the last time I saw one of those - even a plainer Ford wagon is a rare sight anymore, even at a show.

I remember in the 90s, my dad took the rear end out of a 70 Squire to put in his 60 Country Sedan (I don't know what the benefit was supposed to be). The Squire was weathered far beyond redemption so it was being parted out, but was a cool car with the hidden headlights -dark blue on black with probably most every option, and I seem to recall it had a 429. I think once the drivetrain was taken, it just went to the crusher.

tjc78 · January 2013

Wagons usually had a higher axle ratio than sedans. Since you mention it was a high-option car it most likely was a Traction-Lok as well.

fintail · January 2013

Ah that might be it, I remember my dad mentioning Traction-Lok in some context. The Country Sedan was a 352, which was the largest offering that year, so maybe it could have been an easy upgrade to the newer part. I also now seem to recall he was concerned about a rear end noise in the older car. He kicked himself from the moment he sold that car.

steine13 · January 2013

>> You mean cars aren't people too?

Exactly.

I know this, but I don't follow my own advice.... I've been known to "visit" former cars of mine if I know where they are parked.... just to see how they've held up, whether they're still running...

What can I say, I'm sentimental. Never dumped a girlfriend, never quit a job either...

I'm working on buying car #38, though.

Cheers -Mathias

fintail · January 2013

I guess I am not so bad then - I have never visited an old car. I kind of don't want to know what happened to them, as few will carry on my OCD cleaning habits. My last daily driver was traded in, so I knew I would probably never see it again (dealer claimed he had someone who would want it before it hit the lot).

I would like to find out what happened to that Country Sedan my dad had, though. He sold it in the mid 90s, regretted it from that day forward.

andre1969 · January 2013

I have a friend who saw two of his previous cars abandoned along the side of the same road! At different times, of course. His first car was a 1976 or 77 Cordoba that was involved in two separate accidents. Both were fairly minor, but I think the second was enough to total it. The other party was at fault, so he got paid out and the insurance company took it. But didn't junk it, I guess, because he saw it abandoned, with no tags, along a desolate stretch of road awhile later.

His second car was a 1978 Newport that was totaled when a 1990-93 Accord tried to make a right turn from the left lane, right in front of him, and he couldn't stop in time and T-boned it. The Accord was trashed, but the only thing that disabled the Newport, I'm thinking, was that the fender was pushed just far enough into the tire to rub it. Oh, and it bent a rear axle when it hopped a curb. That one I know got junked, because I saw it, ironically, at the same towing company/junkyard that impounded my ex-wife's '88 LeBaron when it got stolen!

His third car was an '82 Cutlass Supreme sedan with a 260 V-8 that he got something like $600 in trade for, when he bought a used '95 Grand Marquis in 1999. The Cutlass was white and easily identifiable, because it had one Chevy Rally wheel on the rear. Well, awhile later, he was driving down that same road, and there was his Cutlass, abandoned with no tags!

As for me, I saw my '80 Malibu about a year after I sold it. Talked with the owner. They had it up to about 115,000 miles (I sold it with 100K) and said they loved it. After I sent my totaled '69 Dart GT off to the junkyard, they had it for a little over a year and then it was gone. I know where the guy who bought my '68 Dart lives, but don't know if he still has it. He wanted to restore it, but if he was smart, he would have given up long ago! :P

As for the rest of my previous cars, I have no idea.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

I've had more cars than birthdays, and very very few are ones that I long to see again. Generally when I sell a car, I'm already divorced emotionally, since I would rarely sell out of distress. A few I was really glad to see go and if I never see them again, all the better.

But there are a handful I'd like to have back again...my '63 Riviera, '57 Morgan, Jaguar XK140, MGB roadster, my little Honda 600, TR250, BMW 2002 all come to mind. I'm sure there are a few others.

Aside from the XK140, most of them are still accessible to my budget I guess, but you know, been there, done that...

stickguy · January 2013

I see my Accord on occasion, but that is because the women that bought it lives a couple of miles away, on a thru street that I use frequently, and you can see the driveway where it parks. So I know they still have it. And I did see it parked at our local commuter station not long ago.

I know a silver Accord is on the common side, but they never fixed the broken front bumper, and that is a dead giveaway (I would know that damage anywhere!)

The oddest one though was I swear that I recently saw the Scion tC i traded back in 2005 for sale on CL (when i was just browsing). identical car, and it had the plate frame from the Honda dealer I traded it out. The ad said 1 owner, but that seems odd (who would put a Honada dealer plate frome on their Scion if they were the only owner?).

I thought about going to check it out, but it felt stalkerish.

The other car I always saw, and that I regretted selling, was my mazda 626. The mailman bought that, so I heard about it occasionally when I saw him, and I saw it parked at the P.O all the time. he put another 100k+ on it, so a good deal for him.

fintail · January 2013

I'd like to know that my W126 is still on the road and in good shape, and maybe that my C43 is still going - the other couple cars I have experienced, I don't care for so much. It'd be cool if any of them are still around, but no feelings if not.

fintail · January 2013

The abandoned car thing might be an omen to anyone who wants to buy a used car from that guy.

Thinking back, I know the leviathan T-Bird my mother had when I was little ended up in the backyard of a car hoarder friend of my dad....it was still there when we moved from that area 25+ years ago, could be there today if the city hasn't got on him (had 20 or more cars hidden away). I remember my dad traded his poopy brown S10 Blazer, and I would see it parked on a main street back around 1994-5, never moving - my dad theorized it died, as it was not the best made vehicle. When I was away at school, my mom sold the old Tempo to a local guy who worked for a car repair place, and wanted to give it to his kid. Several years later, maybe around 2005, I saw it in a parking lot, still looking pretty OK. Had to have been over 200K miles by then.

ab348 · January 2013

In 1997 I bought a 1978 Olds Delta 88 as a beater and then ended up semi-restoring it. Nothing too crazy, but I replaced the rear bumper, some interior pieces, a few emblems, etc. After 6 years of faithful service I sold it. I saw it around time a few times in the first couple of years and then never again. I have no doubt the rusties got to it as it was starting to go in a few spots. But I wonder where it went, if for no other reason than a lot of the bits I replaced on it would be worth something to those in the Olds community.

qbrozen · January 2013

my 540 lives close by, but I have yet to see it.

andre1969 · January 2013

The abandoned car thing might be an omen to anyone who wants to buy a used car from that guy.

The last two cars he got rid of, a 1995 Grand Marquis and a 2004 Crown Vic, I sometimes thought I should have bought, just to have a beater. In 2004, the Grand Marquis had about 175,000 miles on it, but was getting a bit tired. The check engine light was on, one of the headlights was deteriorating (he had to replace one, because the plastic actually cracked through), paint was getting thin and it was starting to rust in that unfinished area where the top of the C-pillar joins the roof, a little smoke and clatter on hard acceleration, etc.

He got $600 in trade for it. When I found out how little they were going to give him (I was with him when he bought it) I seriously considered offering to buy it off him for that! But, decided not to.

Well, the 2004 made it to about 230,000 miles, when he traded just a few months ago, on a used 2009 Grand Marquis LS Ultimate. The '04 aged much better for the most part, although both the front and rear bumpers were peeling. However, mechanically it seemed more solid. One issue it had though, was that the a/c would cut in and out at random, and I think the dealer wanted well over $1,000 to fix it.

That one, he only got like $300 or $400 in trade, but this time I wasn't there when he did the deal. I did tell him though, to check Central Avenue, down past the community college, to see if it shows up abandoned one of these days! :P

He said he wouldn't have sold me the car, even for $300-400, because he'd feel guilty if something broke on it. But I told him that at that price, even if it lasted a few months it would be fine. And as for the a/c, hell my attitude is that as long as the windows still roll down, it's no big deal!

lemko · January 2013

My Grand Marquis just turned 105,000 miles today.

tjc78 · January 2013

It's still a baby.

My 04 GM is sitting at 78k.

andre1969 · January 2013

I think the '09 LS Ultimate that my friend bought had mileage in the low-mid 50K range when he bought it. But I'm sure it's in the 60K range by now.

Every once in awhile, I'll see a low-mileage, recent CV, GM, or Town Car pop up locally and get tempted. But, my 2000 Park Ave only has about 88,500 miles on it, so I guess it's a relative baby, as well.

I've gotten pretty spoiled by the sunroof in my Park Ave, so I guess if I wanted a Panther with a sunroof, I'd have to limit it to Town Cars? Guess I can always have an aftermarket one put in a CV or GM

tjc78 · January 2013

Finding a factory moonroof in a CV or GM is practically impossible. I think the only years were 03 to maybe 05 or so. I've seen exactly one and that was a car on a Panther forum.

I would take a LTC over a Park Ave, but I love Panthers. In all reality the Park Ave in supercharged trim has more power, better FE and rides just as nice. It's FWD, though and a little smaller.

lemko · January 2013

Just saw a black 2007 Lincoln Town Car at the local Ford dealer on Saturday. Two minuses were it had 77K miles and was black. I already have one black car and it is a royal PITA to keep clean. I don't need another one.

tjc78 · January 2013

Unless the wife wants a black car, I'm done with black. The LaCrosse is Carbon black and while I don't believe it's as bad as jet black it is bad enough. We took a trip to the Poconos last weekend and the car looks like heck.

If I went with a late model Townie I wouldn't want black because it looks too much like a livery car. They look great in white and the burgundy color IMO. Beige interior, please.

I've got my Panther fix at the moment. The 04 that was my Grandfather's runs and rides like a dream. The cloth top wouldn't be my choice, but it could be worse.

My car is currently "Panther of the Month" on a Panther website.

berri · January 2013

Funny, I saw a pix of a black TC around that vintage in the Chicago Tribune today where it had driven into the Apple store in Lincoln Park.

wevk · January 2013

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/10/03/neil-armstrong-corvette-heads-towa- rd-preservation/

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

Well the car is a mess, so it'll have to be restored. I can only hope it is not over-restored like so many of them are. They end up looking like old people with plastic surgery. Restoring the fenders is a good idea but date-coded mufflers? That's getting a bit much in my book. I hope they drive the thing and enjoy it and not make it a trailer queen with Armstrong photos stuck all over it.

fintail · January 2013

Had my project car out on another cold day - started right up and ran sweetly, it likes cooler weather. Probably a sign the FI cold start system is worn, as they run better in cold with age. It did crank a little slow on the first time, which means the 6 year old battery might be wearing out. That's a good lifespan for a generator car, I guess.

Something I wonder about - could an automatic fintail be push started? I wonder this, as the car can be started in gear.

Bad news - my indy mechanic closed his shop, at least temporarily. He ran the place almost singlehandedly, only employing like 2 other guys - and got overwhelmed. I think he needed a break, and kind of collapsed. I know sometimes he was having to book work weeks out. Luckily, I do know another shop who isn't afraid of either of my cars. The new place is ran by a middle aged guy who employs some old timers, so it might actually be fine.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

only if your automatic has a rear pump. e.g., GM's old 2-speed Powerglide.

fintail · January 2013

It is the old 4-speed fluid coupling-based (no torque converter) system you probably remember from back in the day. I was thinking, if it starts in gear (2nd gear start), maybe other things are possible.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

well roll it down a hill and try it! :P

fintail · January 2013

I might do that. I wonder how it would work, with no clutch to pop. Put in second and see what happens, I guess.

I am happy, might have finally found storage for the car, as it now looks like I will need to be out of the current garage by the end of the month. It will be a bit more expensive, which irks me. Sometimes I wonder why I keep that car - but I forget that when I drive it.

xwesx · January 2013

This one has 139,000 miles, 4.9L V8 (front-wheel drive... it's the first V8 I've ever seen that is transversely mounted), Brougham package, which is leather, some other stuff, perhaps the faux convertible top? The body is silver. Paint is good, tires are good, no leaks, starts and runs well, is very clean. Sounds like it has a loose heat shield on the exhaust. The only issues it has is the leather seats in the front show some wear. Not torn, but worn on the door sides of the front seats due to accessing.

realistically, what's it worth? I'm thinking maybe $3K?

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

That would be somewhat generous for a base 1992 Seville, but if the car checks out with a mechanical inspection, and is really clean top to bottom, that'd be an okay price. Fair retail. I'd prefer you paid about $1800.

tjc78 · January 2013

IDK if that is a car you want to touch. It's certainly a nice machine, but it is a first year model. They are known to pop head gaskets, and you have to remove the intake manifold to R&R the starter. They also have funky liquid cooled alternators. In other words, potential money pit.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

I think you're thinking of the Northstar engine hassles with the starter motor. With the 4.9 it's not so bad to work on the engine. Still, if it has a funky digital dash or other electrical gremlins, it could be a problematic car.

xwesx · January 2013

This is my grandmother's car. Since my grandfather passed away last week, she's looking tooff-load it. Everything on it is digital. It even has things I didn't know existed back then, such as mpg avg and instantaneous.

She's being stubborn about the car right now, but I told her it is fine if she wants to hang on to it because it isn't likely to depreciate any further!

tjc78 · January 2013

think you're thinking of the Northstar engine hassles with the starter motor. With the 4.9 it's not so bad to work on the engine

I thought the 4.9 was a typo. I could have sworn 92+ Sevilles were all 4.6 Northstars! Damn, my one time to be wrong this year happened in January!!

Mr_Shiftright · January 2013

"but I told her it is fine if she wants to hang on to it because it isn't likely to depreciate any further!"

Oh yeah it could, especially if anything electronic goes wrong with it.

Nothing is spurned in the marketplace like an ailing old luxury sedan.

xwesx · January 2013

The STS has a 4.6, the standard Seville has a 4.9.

andre1969 · January 2013

From what I've heard, the Caddy 4.9, and the 4.5 version, are pretty rugged...so vastly improved that it's hard to believe that they're based on the old troubleprone 4.1 from 1982!

My grandmother's cousin has an '89 Coupe DeVille with the 4.5 that's still running strong, despite years of abuse, neglect, and inadequate money to take proper care of it. I have no idea how many miles are on it...I'd guess maybe 110-120K, so not a huge amount.

She had me drive it around a few months ago, to charge up the battery, and I was impressed at how nice the engine sounds. It has a nice, gutsy V-8 grumble to it, even though it's not all that fast. Sounds a lot better than the 3.8 in my Park Ave, that's for sure! Rides better than my Park Ave, too.

lemko · January 2013

My 1994 Cadillac DeVille had a 4.9 litre V-8. It was a highly durable engine and the car was remarkably fast despite its mere 200-hp rating. Good fuel economy is also a plus!

stickguy · January 2013

that is, enough beer + power tools = some really odd results. As if 454 C.I. wasn't enough?

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/3572661366.html

fintail · January 2013

Yikes. Took something a lot stronger than beer to come up with that idea.

qbrozen · January 2013

wow that's lacking information

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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