Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

boomchek · February 2013

Saw this exact car for sale last January for about $1200. I was going to pick it up for the rims alone as I figured they're quite rare. It needed some work, presumably tuneup and such.

Now the guy is asking $5k. It's cool because it has the period aftermarket add ons but I can't see $5k in it.

Mercedes 190E

andre1969 · February 2013

Didn't some full-sized Chevies, even before the downsizing, use the 4.75x5 bolt pattern as well? I doubt the monstrous '71-76 models did, but maybe 1970 and earlier, non wagon models?

fintail · February 2013

Oh, a 4cyl auto, fast car...compared to a 240D. Cool wheels. ACT has no actual AMG connection as far as I know, though, and no such thing as AMG headlights. Seller is kind of dopey.

Not worth 5K, his cheapo paint job (hidden by low res pics) and a few other bits don't add up to that. Also looks a lot more like Tex than leather, to me.

I'd rather spend twice as much and get a nice 2.3-16, if I really wanted a W201.

boomchek · February 2013

Yeah I haven't seen many decent W201's lately. Most are beat up and rough looking.

Ideally an early 90s or last year production W201 would be ideal....for $1000.... in perfect condition :P

Edit: I never heard of ACT wheels but looks like they did a lot of BBS type rims in the 80s.

fintail · February 2013

201s and 124s are starting to age off now.

Final year 190E 2.6 Sportline would be the best of those, and they exist with a 5-speed too.

boomchek · February 2013

Final year 190E 2.6 Sportline would be the best of those, and they exist with a 5-speed too.

If you can find one. I bet less than 1% of W201's came equipped with a manual.

Here's a nice E320 convertible from that era but I think the seller is a bit out to lunch on the price unless he finds a hard core MB collector to buy it.

W124 for sale

fintail · February 2013

I'd bet most manual 201s were diesels. A 190D is fairly rare.

The cabrio looks nice, but yeah, needs a good 30% off at least. Miles aren't spectacularly low, pretty car though.

ab348 · February 2013

Possibly, but I don't know. I don't do Chevys.

jrosasmc · February 2013

Speaking of old diesel Mercedes, I wanted to pass on this article from the New York Times - it is a very interesting read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/automobiles/a-mercedes-with-tenure.html?pagewa- nted=2&_r=1

How one can live with a 240D in the harsh environment of New York, let alone for 37 years, is beyond my wildest dreams. But I must give the owner props for keeping this car on the road for so long. I honestly don't see or hear of one-owner '70s diesel Mercedes all the time. I wonder what that car would be like to drive on the Interstates.

bhill2 · February 2013

I wonder what that car (Mercedes 240D) would be like to drive on the Interstates.

Well, if you had a jet assist to get it up to speed on the onramp, I believe that it could then hold freeway speed on flat ground. Any uphill stretches would, of course, change that quickly. Without assist, you would have to pray that circumstances allowed you to enter the freeway at 25 mph or so, since that is about as much velocity as it could attain on the onramp. Then you could just remain in the right lane for 5 miles or so until it got up to speed. That is, of course, assuming that a trucker didn't run you over trying to maintain velocity.

boomchek · February 2013

Cool article, thanks for sharing. I like these old Benzes, so durable and reliable.

fintail · February 2013

Yep, I have seen that one, good read. Nice car and great period color.

Like was said, it could make it to freeway speeds on flat ground, eventually, but look out for hills, and hope the people behind you on on-ramps are patient. At least it isn't an automatic.

And speaking of MB, this is um...special

boomchek · February 2013

I think I've seen this one before, we chatted about it.

It is an oddball for sure, but not pretty. And I don't get the point of the leather shifter boot around the auto tranny shifter trim.

The wheels dopn't look period either.

Ugh, $21k a bit steep for yet another of Sbarro's weird creations.

fintail · February 2013

It's been "restored" very incorrectly (wheels make me want to punch someone), but it's significant in terms of vintage tuned/custom Euro cars. Needs some work to be put right, but for those with the taste, they don't come around too often.

I'd rather have a widebody AMG SEC or maybe a Koenig Special etc.

boomchek · February 2013

This one has both, a widebody and is a Koenig Special hehe

fintail · February 2013

I wouldn't kick it out of my garage.

I am sure you have seen this site, it's fun to read through...I like these sometimes tacky 80s customs.

boomchek · February 2013

Yeah I've seen it. I like the yellow RR 4 door on the home page with the convertible yellow top. Probably built for some sheik!

steine13 · February 2013

"sometimes tacky"

you may have nailed it... -Mathias

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

Nigel from Spinal Tap would have had an 1100 SEL :P

fintail · February 2013

Quite a few cars there I'd like. AMG W126 cars, Gemballa SEC, etc. Most probably long gone now, due to careless original ownership. Tacky...but unashamedly so, and something of a nostalgia object for me, as I remember being amazed by such cars when I was a kid. In a world of Cieras and Horizons, those custom 80s luxobarges seemed a lot more exotic than the bland highline cars of today.

fintail · February 2013

No doubt the majority of cars on that site went to the middle east. Probably languishing in a desert junkyard now.

I've seen a few period AMG W126 cars locally, but almost no other period tuners.

hpmctorque · February 2013

I also imagine that a majority of those high dollar cars were relatively low mileage when they went to their graves. If I'm thinking correctly the owners were people who didn't have to give any thought about cost-to-own.

fintail · February 2013

Exactly. Minor failure = abandon it in the desert somewhere.

boomchek · February 2013

I have a friend who was stationed in Kuwait during the desert storm. He said it was not uncommon to see abandoned luxury cars, especially Benzes in the desert.

boomchek · February 2013

I have an opportunity to pick up an 2004 Audi S4 for under $8k, most likely around $5-$6k. It's a 6 speed manual, no major accidents but it's very high mileage as it has 300,000kms (200k miles).

It was running at the local car auction and most likely will run again next week.

What are your thoughts on maintenance of the S4 with such high kms? I looked at it in person and it looks like something with 1/3 of the mileage, it's almost mint.

The only issue is that coolant was low (the reservoir was below the min line) so I figure it has a coolant leak either from the reservoir or worse, maybe cracked block :confuse: but no white smoke was coming out and car started and ran fine with no issues, no overheatng. And it needs an emission test to be insurable.

Is it worth the risk or can this become a money pit. Like I said the car is in absolutely mint condition for the mileage inside and out and I'm guessing that for $5k it could be a good toy. Thoughts?

hpmctorque · February 2013

From your postings you seem very knowledgeable about cars, so I'm a little surprised that you ask whether that miled up 8-9 year old S4 could be a money pit. I'd be amazed if it were not. Despite its mint appearance, I'd say it's pretty much used up, unless key components have been replaced recently. Of course, $5K would more or less reflect that. However, with used cars it's not so much what works as what doesn't work, or soon will not work, that's important.

I suppose if you planned on keeping it for no more than a year, and drive no more than 5,000 miles you could take a chance. Assuming no major failures, could you then sell it for close to what you would pay for it?

There's no question that a S4 could be a lot of fun, but I'd stay away from one with 300,000 kms.

stickguy · February 2013

my guess, think about the worst case scenario, double that, add 10% and you might have enough budget for the trouble it could cause!

I thought I was living on the edge spending $2,700 on a 12 YO stick shift Integra with 166K on it.

boomchek · February 2013

I'm just thinking it would be a fun car, and yes I'm usually the first one advising friends and family against older miled up Audis because all of the ones I've personally come across always had some electrical issues.

This one just looks immaculate and perhaps I just need a few people to talk me out of it.

explorerx4 · February 2013

A 9 year old Audi limited edition sport model with 300k on it and unobtainium repairs parts?
What can go wrong? :sick:

steine13 · February 2013

Is it worth the risk or can this become a money pit.

What do you mean "become?"

If it weren't a money pit already, do you think it'd be no-saling at the auction?

If you want a break-your-heart toy, go for it, but not for $5k.
At least no of my money.

It's a mistake to think that all cars should run all the time.
This car will not.
But it'll be great when it does.
Can you deal with that concept? Do you want to?

Have fun,
-Mathias

qbrozen · February 2013

well, let's see.... the only one that has even come close at auction had 153k miles and sold for $4700 in below average condition. $5k would be a hard sell for me. And you have to be prepared to set that $5k on fire and walk away because that is quite possible what would happen.

However, if it is just a toy you are after, I think you'd be much better served buying a similar "vintage" WRX. A clean one with under 140k went for $7k. So I'd think a clean one with 200k has to be darn close to the money you are talking about for the audi. And I'd be willing to be that, on the private side, a 200k Subaru is going to be a FAR easier and quicker sale than that audi.

boomchek · February 2013

Yeah I think I'll pass and see keep an eye out for something else, thanks everyone for your input.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

Also, final nail in coffin....parts prices for an S4 might make your socks roll up and down You could spend $1000 for a headlight.

lemko · February 2013

fintail · February 2013

Spend 200K to get 100K, seems like a fair deal.

Nice wheels and wheelarch trim - ex Arabian Peninsula car?

hpmctorque · February 2013

It's only a little patina. It'll rub right out.

omarman · February 2013

Relive my driver's ed with this except for the *ahem* 429

This would have been a nice HS grad gift Still would make a nice gift too.

I ma selling a 1975 Lincoln-Mercury Comet for too much $$$

Seems like a lot of these 70s battleships survived.

If it's not a rust bucket then I'd like to have it.

Seller doesn't know much about it except that it's worth every penny

fintail · February 2013

"has 429 but getts good mpg "

Compared to what?

Ooh, a "Lincoln-Mercury" Comet, sounds fancy.

That white on white car is the pick of the lot.

andre1969 · February 2013

Shouldn't that Torino Elite have a 460, if it's original? I have to admit, I kinda like it, but that dual exhaust doesn't look too professional!

And yeah, I agree, that white on white '74 LTD is a pretty nice car. Definitely the pick of the bunch. I don't think too many of those survived. Seems like they rusted worse than their GM equivalents. Or even their unitized Mopar competition.

That Comet actually gives me a slight headache looking at it. Shows just what a torture chamber some compacts could be back in those days.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

Collectors much prefer the SWB MB 600 to the Pullman. I'd call this one a parts car, given that even simple things like water pump could set you back big bucks

Someone driving the Pullman around all by himself looks ridiculous.

fintail · February 2013

I'd have thought the biggest stock engine in an Elite would be a 351 or maybe a 400. Was a 460 used on that midsized (relatively) platform?

The dashboard of that Comet is pretty unpleasant, I never liked the rear end of those either.

andre1969 · February 2013

I'd have thought the biggest stock engine in an Elite would be a 351 or maybe a 400. Was a 460 used on that midsized (relatively) platform?

Yep, even in '76 you could get a 460 as an option on the Elite. The 351 was actually the standard engine! And the 400 was a mid-range option.

At some point, I think even in the lesser Torino models, a 351 was made standard, because the 6-cyl and even the 302 engines just weren't up to the task. That must have made them a hard sell to fuel conscious buyers.

I think GM and Chrysler started phasing the bigger engines out of their cars after 1975. For instance, in the 1976 Chevelle/Malibu and Monte Carlo brochures, they list a 175 hp 400 V-8 as the top engine. By that time, I guess the 454 was reserved for Impala/Caprice duty?

I know you could still get a 455 in a LeMans or Grand Prix in '76, and they actually seem somewhat common in the Grand Prix.

For '77, the biggest engine you could get in a Malibu/Monte was a 350, ditto the Century/Regal. The Cutlass could be had with a 403, and the LeMans/Grand Prix could be ordered with a Pontiac 400 (Olds 403 in CA). That same year, Ford quit offering the 460 in midsized cars, but still offered the 400 in the LTD-II/Cougar/T-bird.

I've heard that Chrysler still offered the 440 in midsized cars right up through 1978, but I think in those last couple years, it might have been a copcar-only engine.

texases · February 2013

"At some point, I think even in the lesser Torino models, a 351 was made standard, because the 6-cyl and even the 302 engines just weren't up to the task. That must have made them a hard sell to fuel conscious buyers. "

According to the ad, those folks would get the 429, right?

xwesx · February 2013

I like that Ford van. I think that's the first long body I've seen of that generation in well over a decade. Far and away, the vast majority of the survivors are short bodies.

Of course, I have my own van that I need to put right before I'd seriously consider anything else, but it's still fun to look.

omarman · February 2013

I went back to the seller's CL ad and it looks like it's been edited to now state: "I have a black 75 Ford elite same line as torino but not to many of these made ... getts not to bad mpg" No more mention of engine size.

I don't remember Ford offering the 429 in passenger cars after 1974.

omarman · February 2013

That's the longer Econoline Supervan which Ford started making in '65. I think they made a camper version of this too.

xwesx · February 2013

I didn't realize the called it "Econoline" prior to the generation change in '69. My '69 has a nameplate on the back that says "Supervan," and it cracks people up when they see it.

Of course, the whole van cracks them up initially, so perhaps they're already in a jovial mood when they get to looking at that detail.

omarman · February 2013

Funny thing is that I can always do a quick CL search of rust belt cities (Detroit, Columbus, Pittsburgh, NY/NJ metro) and find running, licensed 70s LTDs for sale. Although sometimes the seller's ad seems like a joke or one big typo. You know it's going to be fun when something is listed as "almost immaculate"

xwesx · February 2013

Definitely too many zeros in that one! I wonder what class he was attending... remedial math?

boomchek · February 2013

Definitely too many zeros in that one!

Ha, I peaked at the ad and though it was $5k as well until you mentioned it. Funny with the line about no low ballers too.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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