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Comments
Also points out how simple an old car really is. Couldn't imagine doing that kind of tear down on a new model.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Don't some things tend to be more modular nowadays though? Where instead of replacing some little part, you just pull out and chuck the whole assembly?
And one thing I will say for newer cars...whomever thought up the idea on disc brakes to make the rotor a separate piece from the hub was a genius! It makes changing your rotors about as difficult as changing a tire!
Parts car or project?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Just MHO of course.
Does look like it is in better shape than that Charger from last week!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Of course, once you start poking through some of that scale, you might discover that it has gone all the way through...
The amount of obvious rust (scale) precludes this car from being worth anything like $2650 due to just that possibility. It's a $500 car at best.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
There's a good chance that the seller would tell me to get lost, but the way I look at it my offer would be fair to him and to me, because if the car is rusted through, it's worth whatever scrap value is nowadays ($30-$60?, or zero if it has to be towed t the crusher). If it's not rusted through, this car would be an entertaining project car, even though it would never appreciate much.
"It's not the rust you see, it's the rust you don't see".
This is a $300 parts car, or a $15,000 restoration to a #3 standard that will be worth $5,000 when you are done, maybe, if you find five drunks on eBay.
Best thing for cars like this (as I've said before) is to use them to restore 2door and drop tops, or paint 'em with a brush, powerwash the interior (with upholstery still in it) and then drive it around until it blows up.
Hmmm...I never thought the Y-block was a particularly great engine, and it only lasted 8 years before being phased out. I do recall they bent push rods very easily and I think there was an issue with cracks in the crankcase webbing. It certainly wasn't the weapon of choice in the 50s.
But rust rarely comes right through the roof or hood of a car, or some of the other spots it appears to be doing on that Ford. Usually that kind of rust comes from the paint getting too worn down. That's the kind of rust you get on a shovel when you leave it out in the rain a couple nights, or when your uncle got up on the roof of your house 4 years ago to do some patching and forgot and left his hammer up there, only for you to discover it while you're up there one hot summer day spraying for wasps...
I'm actually familiar with this type of rust, as I've had a few cars do it. My grandma's '85 LeSabre was starting to do it, as was my Mom's '86 Monte Carlo. The paint was just getting thin and spider-webbed, allowing the primer and metal to be exposed, and start to rust. This type of rust usually takes a long time to take effect though, because it doesn't stay constantly wet. It'll get rained on, splashed, or whatever, but then dries out fairly quickly, unlike when water pools up along with dirt and gunk in your rocker sills, rear quarter panels, or gets thrown up under the front of the fenders because you don't have an adequate wheel well lining. Sure, exposure to the air will make any bare metal rust, but it's the air and water combined that really get it started.
I wonder if somebody tried to start a restoration on that car and sanded it down, but then never got around to painting it?
Now of course, like I said before, once you start poking around on that car you might go all the way through the metal in some places, but if all you have is a little "shovel rust" / "scale", a great deal of that would probably just sand right off. I think this just might be a case of a car looking worse than it really is. In contrast, you could have a car with a nice, shiny Earl Sheib paint job that's hiding all sorts of bondo and rust-through.
I have to say though that probably there wasn't quite the pride of ownership in a stripper 4-door as there would have been in a deluxe convertible. Generally, back in those days, the 4-doors were the utilitarian side of a company's line of cars, especially in the Ford/Chev/Plymouth bracker. Of course, I'm sure the man who bought it was glad to have a new car. That was only a couple years after the Korean War and a lot of materials shortages in the US.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16124&item=4536148084&rd- =1
He claims a body off restoration, but it looks like all old parts on the body and the engine is filthy. Another case where you have to wonder, if it's such a slam dunk to finish it, why is he walking away now.
I think that this seller may be guilty of hyperbole, but this car may not be horrible if the price stays at $4k
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I think that sellers throw around terms like "body off" and "rotiserie" without really knowing what they mean. Why would you do a frame off resto and throw put on old body parts? I mean, look at that back bumper!
A car can be a decent driver with going body off frame and there's nothing wrong with just being a decent driver, just price it accordingly.
maybe he meant they took the engine out?
A decent paint job and an engine bay detail would help this dog immensely. Also might be nice to install the new interior.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Sometimes people just do stupid things though, when they restore cars. For example, the guy that had my Dart before be put several thousand $ into the engine around the 242,000 mile mark, because he wanted more kick out of it. But then guess what? He put the same old 2-bbl carb back on it!! In a similar vein, somewhere along the line before I got it, somebody rebuilt the 400 in my '67 Catalina, blueprinting it and putting a 4-bbl carb on it. But then they left it with the same economy-minded 2.56:1 rear end! Oh well, if nothing else, it'll hold first gear till about 55 mph and chirp the tires going into second, while getting halfway decent mileage on the highway if you keep your foot out of it.
"Frame off restoration" = Sat on cinder blocks in my yard for at least a year
"Show winner" = Get's plenty of looks in the high school partking lot
"Numbers match" = I never checked and neither will you
"Easy Completion" = This car is a basket case and I'm cutting my losses
"$--,000 Invested" = I can't keep track anymore but I'm taking a bath on this thing
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6236&item=4538781119&rd=- 1
I like that it doesn't have carpets so that you can see that the floors look decent. These cars are notorious for rusting floors and frames. Also, four original hubcaps is a nice feature.
Of course, you've got to see it in person, but I think for $1,500 (even let's call it $2,5oo) this could be worth saving.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4539532356
Bidding on it is currently up to around $1500. Any idea what a "fair" price would be to pay for it? It looks like it's in great shape, with only fairly minor problems, like a missing center cap on one of the wheels, loose rearview mirror, tear in the seat, non-working a/c, 2 of the 4 HVAC fan speeds not working, and non-working FM band on the radio. It's also been repainted, but looks like a nice job. Also, the "top end" of the engine has been rebuilt, which I guess means it had a head-job? I guess the main thing that bothers me is the high mileage, around 170,000. I've had cars with much higher mileage than that, and have gotten much more life out of them, but at the same time, a lot can go wrong in 170,000 miles!
Anyways, any opinions?
Good luck bidding and let us know how it goes.
'74-'82 like the plague.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
According to Mapquest, it's about 8 hours or so, each way, so maybe 17-18 hours, total. That's a day trip. Well, a very LONG day trip! Not quite in the same league as going from Atlanta to Texarkanna and back in 28 hours to pick up a truck load of Coors, but still quite a road trip!
Were it an "old lady car", with under 100K and cherry as can be, you'd be looking at maximum value of perhaps $4,500, so go figure, there's not a lot of slack in here for you.
I'd say bid to $2,000 and that's it, then bail. For $2K you can certainly flip it if you don't like it.
For someone who spent $800 in tuning, having a car that stumbles when cold is not an encouraging statement, but probaby fixable at not too great a cost. These are pretty easy cars to work on, which, being a '76, you will have a chance to do more often than on a 1972 car.
So not a bad ride if you can keep your budget in place on it. Gotta buy what you like, that's the bottom line. :shades:
Ghulet, my Mom had a '75 LeMans coupe with the 350, in kind of a cinnamon/bronze color that's actually somewhat close to this eBay LeMans. I was only 5 when she bought it, so I don't remember it that well now, except that, even with some of the gaudy colors around in the 70's, it stuck out like a sore thumb in parking lots! Part of it was the color, but I think another part was that over-exaggerated swoopy rear end! It was an okay car until 1977, when my Dad wrecked it. It never ran right after that, and started getting really bad gas mileage right up until the point that Mom traded it for a new 1980 Malibu.
And you're absolutely right about the space efficiency! About 4 years ago, I found a '76 LeMans coupe for sale right around the corner from me, and thought my dreams had come true. Until I started it up. It fired right up, no trouble at all, but then I remember thinking damn, that sounds funny for a V-8. Popped the hood, and sure enough, it was a Chevy 250 6-cyl! Also had no a/c, basic steel wheels with those stock Pontiac hubcaps that had the little holes in them (like what the LeManses in Smokey and the Bandit had, IIRC). Also had rust around the rear window, the side windows, the window sill in the door, and when I opened the trunk I could see parking lot through the floor. I sat in it, and up front it was a very comfortable car. Heck, even nowadays they don't make very many cars with front seats this roomy! But the back seat was smaller than my Dart's, and the trunk was positively tiny. And when I opened the big, heavy door, it gave me a flashback to Mom's old LeMans!
When GM downsized these cars for 1978, the space efficiency improvements they saw were nothing short of miraculous! I was 9 when my Mom traded our '75 in, so I really didn't remember how small it was inside, but I had the Malibu until I was 20, so I can remember it pretty well. The LeMans had more shoulder room, both front and rear, but had a lot more inward curve of the side windows. And the tranny/driveshaft hump of the Malibu was also bigger. But there was a huge difference in back seat and trunk room.
So is it pretty common on eBay for people to really go crazy and start over-bidding on a car?
But you never know. If you have two bidders with money and both are blinded by emotion, things can get pretty silly and one of them is going to be stuck with a car that they are in wayyy too deep.
Also on eBay you really never know what's real or not. Best thing is to set a limit for yourself and stick to it no matter what.
Now you're talking about a real car
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
is what I'm thinking about! :-)
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/6/9/78503069.htm
The other LeMans in Ohio is about 500 miles. BTW, what does "RTS" stand for? Is that just "Radial Tuned Suspension", which was something that Pontiac tended to make a big deal out of in the early 70's?
I'm not crazy about the Baby Blue part and I'd still want to avoid the middle 70s but the pictured car is as desireable as anything Detroit put out at the time.
I've had a thing for big Buick convertibles since I borrowed a '62 Electra/401 back in the day. I'd 100 times rather have one than that Grand LeMans or any contemporary Buick.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
And it's always a good feeling when the car you are buying comes with it's own organ donor (parts car).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
When it comes to the old cars I've had, I've actually missed most of the 70's, having had a '69 Dart and a '69 Bonneville, and two '79 Chryslers. The Bonneville may have originally had bias ply, but by the time I bought it it was riding on 225/75/R15 radials. The Dart had bias ply tires, which I immediately replaced with 205/70/R14 radials.
Sometimes I actually feel better when I have an "organ donor" lying about. I held onto my '69 Dart for about 2 1/2 years after it got wrecked, and it provided a lot of support for my '68. And when my '89 Gran Fury quit running, I started cannibalizing parts for my '79 New Yorker. Different platform (R versus M) but a lot of stuff was still a direct swap, like power window motors, wheels, brakes, etc. But now getting an organ donor from Georgia to Maryland might be a bit of a chore...
http://www.abodysite.com/buford28.jpg
So, either that was God's way of telling me I wasn't destined to have it, or just a missed opportunity for me. Anyway, I did send an email to the seller asking him if he was re-listing it. I wish I could get the danged thing out of my mind, but I can't!