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Nissan Frontier Crew Cab vs Ford Explorer Sport Trac - II

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Comments

  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    I have always bought Pantsaver mats. They work pretty well to stop the bottom of your pants from getting to wet; but they are made for snow, so i don't know if you can get/want them in Florida
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    I hear a lot of noise about steering wheels falling off, no paint on sport tracs lower doors, etc. Since one of the Sporttrac owners here had the paint problem, I can assume that happened on some of them, but probably only a short run. I doubt the steering wheel as a major problem (probably happened once, if that) My premise is that people love to badmouth, especially if they bought a competing brand. And many will believe anything they are told. Look how many churches and organizations have boycotted some major corp. because some AH posted that the head of the company was on (blank) and swore allegiance to the devil. Never under estimate the gulibilty of the average person. Look how many democrats trust BC.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Yeah I might be. I just want something that's going to protect the carpet. I don't really like the cheezy $79 mats that came with the truck(I didn't pay for them eventhough they tried!). I guess they are better than thick mats that would hold water. If you can get me some info maybe a website or namwe of the manufacturer I'll check it out. I like the new catch-all by niffty products website www.nifftyproducts.com I'm going to check out as many as I can. I had a friend get the Husky liner for the back of his Suburban it wasn't too bad I just don't really care for the 'diamond plate' look. Thanks for the info though.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    sorry too many f's www.niftyproducts.com I forgot it's too bad they don't make anything for Nissan yet :(
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Hey ST owners when are you guys going to post some pictures of your ride? I think I'm going to this weekend. We need more Nissans too! :)
  • dennisc2dennisc2 Member Posts: 10
    Don't even try to debate it, 65%+ of new car buyers are ignorant morons. They will buy a car on looks, status, or Made in America. "A lot of Explorers on the road, must be the thing to do".! Just like my co-worker whom has put $3,000 into the Tranny and A/C of his Explorer in the last 6 months. Not even enough common sense to shop around the price since it was out of warranty,
    Went straight to the dealer, talk about taking the Lamb to the slaughter !
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    While my daughter was doing crafts, I happened to glance at the index page of Consumer Reports. What I saw was a brief lead in to an article that said "Nissan Pathfinder; Probably the only SUV that can be considered "reliable"...or something like that... That article went on to say that of all the suv'S available, the Pathfinder is the only one that can be considered reliable; except the 4runner, but it is much more expensive. The article was talking about good used vehicles to buy, specifically SUV's. It said, only the pathfinder had the quality/reliability in the SUV catr...except the 4 runner, which was cost prohibitive. Now, Vince likes to tell us that the Explorer is the best selling, but his "BIBLE", Consumer Reports, [non-permissible content removed] on his Explorer. Sorry Vince!

    Actually, the same magazine did backup Vince's assertion that the Ranger was a good vehicle; as long as you didn't look at pre-1998. Funny thing....... almost every other vehicle I looked at in this magazine rated really well until you started to get to the pre-1998. So...initial quality is good; but reliablity (long-term) is a different story. They even rated the 1998-1999 Windstar as excellent; Right!!!!
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    You all keep going on and on about how bad Fords are. Yet the only answer I get is "Fords sell because of financing", "Fords sell because of rebates", Fords sell because of low interest rates", Fords sell because there are more dealers". This is bull.... All manufactures offer all the rebates, financing, whichever that Ford offers. Take a look at Edmunds or even in your paper for goodness sake.. As far as more dealers? Don't think so, There are plenty of Nissan/Toyota dealers in my area or within easy driving distances. Fact is Ford is doing things right and you guys just hate it!
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    OK.Ford does all of that and does some things right.Now what?
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Looks like the ball's in your court Vince!
  • fordsporttracfordsporttrac Member Posts: 300
    I'm still here and want to have that cost discussion but Im SWAMPED!!! So just a short note. to start things off.

    How are you comparing the 2? Lets start with the sun roof.

    Correct me if I'm wrong;
    For example, you can't compare the CC & ST if they have sun roofs. The ST is electric and the CC is manual. So that is not comparably equipped.

    Lets try just the base CC and the Base ST with no add-ons and compare from that point. What is in the Base CC vs what is in the Base ST.

    I appologize for kinda dumping this question when I should be answering it myself but I've got to get ready for a trade show and things are hopping here.
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    By your reasoning,these 2 vehicles cannot be compared.I.E. The ST has an electric sliding rear window,the CC does not.The ST has a composite bed,the CC has a metal bed.The ST is based on a SUV,the CC is based on a truck.
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    When I said the My Nissan was $thousands less for the same "comparable" ST, it was said tongue in cheek. In other words, the features were approx. the same. 16" tires, auto, sunroof, power acc., etc.. These features are different (power sunroof on ST, manual on CC, power rear window on ST, manual on CC, etc...)but the point is if I want a sunroof, it is x amount for the ST. Yes, you are getting a power sunroof, but I just want a sunroof.

    What I was getting at, was to get an ST that has the minimum features of my CC 4x4 SE, you are going to pay much more... That is NOT to say you aren't getting EXTRAS with the ST at that price; better sunroof, bigger engine (bigger/heavier vehicle, power rear slider, and the ever popular rear power point for all those campers who are going to buy the ST - Joke, and etc..) BUT to get the minimum features of the CC you pay away more because of the "extras" Ford gives.

    As to the base plain 4x4 w/4 doors, what is the ST listed at & what is the CC listed at? That would be the minimum you would have to pay to get a Ford 4x4 ST or a Nissan 4x4 CC. Then you would have to add any discounts/premiums dealers will give/charge. I think you would probably find the Nissan comes out much cheaper; granted you might not have as many extras, but you would have a 4x4 crew cab. Not I am not sure about this, it is just a guess...If I have time I will look up the base prices.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123

    Please, Please read the article...
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Jealous aren't you? that your frame isn't complete. Hey, how's that 'weak band-aided', 160hp producing V-6 doing? I can't believe you did those cheap improvements to improve the intake performance but didn't band-aid the exhaust! LOL No wonder your truck looses power when you turn your A/C on!

    Read on Kitty!
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    Is what things are sounding like. "I have no back seat space, but I have a better quality ranking." "I paid much more money, but I get more options as standard equipment". Etc., etc.
    dennisc2: By your own argument, 65% of Nissan owners are ignorant morons. I would agree that there are a lot of them out there, but it is not brand specific. I used to be scared of little old ladies in cadillacs when I was biking, but now the scary ones are teenage girls in Honda Civics. They buy the car for its reputation and their spoiled little princes drives it like she is in her bedroom on the phone.
    vince8: They have read the article and do not care. Give it up. No one should judge a vehicle on someone else opinion anyway. Articles are good tools, but they do not rate dealers and they do not give the impression that you can only get from actual seat experience. Heck, my wife has a 93 Shadow. Lousy reputation, 120,000 miles and the only parts replaced has been the rear shocks and the rear hatch struts. I cannot stand the thing, but it fits her and all of our relatives amaze of how powerful the engine is compared to their Nissan/Saturn/Mercedes. It is not a black and white issue.
    mahi: On a long haul Sunday, I noticed several CCs in the Wichita area. Allwere the silver/grey color except one which was the bright yellow. Interesting, but it reminded me of an ODOT truck.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Gooba's gonna kill me. Hehehehe, yeah it does look like a little DOT truck...When I first saw that Solar Yellow I thought "Oh my god imagine having to wash that thing every week" ;) But in the past six months I've actually warmed up to it and after I found out that you can only get that color in the V-6 models makes it even more unique. None of the 4x4 crew cabs I've seen were yellow only Dk. Grey, Silver and Black. Most of the crew cabs in my area have been either the silver or dk. grey too. I saw my third 4x4 crew cab, a black one yesterday. It's funny though when I do see a crew cab that is a 4x4 they don't seem to have the same equip. as mine they are either missing the 'rack' or no sunroof, I even saw one SE that had the XE rims.
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    You guys are funny.You are correct they do look like DOT trucks.By the same token,they also look like Lifeguard trucks.
    We got the yellow because it was different,it was easy to spot in the parking garage,and for safety.We have alot of winter visitors in my town,and I figure they would not be able to have the excuse that they did not see me coming.If that is the case they are BLIND and need to be taken off the road. :-D
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    vince,read the article.Ok.Now what?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    You know what gooba, you just don't want to repeat what they said about the CC vs the ST in the hauling and offroad face off...plain and simple the CC doesn't do that well... These are not opinions either. They loaded each truck EQUALLY, tested each truck EQUALLY over the same terrain.
    And this constant comment about 160HP, The Nissan only puts out 10HP more! Do you not understand what 10 HP means in relation to 160 or 170HP? This proves once again you don't know anything about what a HP/Torque curve is! I see you fail to mention the huge Torque gap of Nissan at 200ft/lbs and the Ranger at 225ft/lbs.. I wonder why???....
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Sure you're right that's why I not you, posted the torque curves for BOTH engines. Your comments only highlight to WHOEVER you're trying to impress, that YOU didn't even look at them. If you did then you wouldn't even be posting any of your gibberish!!! I think secretly your impressed with the 3.3L and how it over powers your meager 160hp chainsaw engine.
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    vince,you asked us to read the article.I told you I did.I did not think I had to post the article.So the article said the CC did not perform well,and the hp/torque numbers are as you have said.Ok.I will concede those points.Now what else do you have to discuss since those points are conceded.
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    I read somewhere that others have had problems with the Oil fill cap. What a POOR design!! I got an oil change yesterday and the guy at walmart gave me some extra oil. He siad to check in the morning because the oil dipstick was really hard to read. He was right!!! You can't even get the stick in smoothly at all, and it is hard to tell the oil level...anyway...while checking I noticed Oil cap was loose. I tried screwing it back on, but no go. Has Nissan come up with a fix?

    Also, what tire pressure are CC owners running? (with the stock 16" tires)My manual says 26, but a couple of people told me that is too low and I should put at least 30lbs in; especially since I haul trailers a lot.

    Any comments?
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    I have to agree that the oil cap design is poor,but,that is the same design on quite a few vehicles.You need to take it to the dealer.Some people who have had this problem have said the dealer changed their valve cover.
    As far as the oil dipstick,I took some white paint and marked mine so that it was easier to read.
    The tire pressure,I suggest you run it at 26-28psi when not loaded or towing and jump the pressure up to what is on the tire when you are loaded.That pressure is fully loaded and the tire should work fine.
  • greenwadegreenwade Member Posts: 24
    I finally received my ST on Aug. 16. It would have been six month waiting on Aug. 19. What a nightmare. So far I haven't noticed any problems. Door to gas rubs but everything els is OK. I never drove it before I purchase it. It rides great and very confortable. My inlaws rode in the back seat and it's as roomy as their suburban. Everyone is tall in the family and even with the front seats all the way back, the back seat passengers knees don't touch the front seat. There is at least an extra ten inches of room. I got it fully loaded including the leather seats and sun roof. We rode with the windows down, sun roof open and back window open and what a breeze rolling through. It's almost too much wind but in the Houston area we need it. The ST sets higher than most SUV's and other small trucks. I was surprised that it's as high as a full size truck and almost the same size as the Lincoln Navagator. but half the price. I called to get the letter for the tonneau cover and I will order it soon. It turns a lot of heads and my friends love it. Great for anyone with kids because the back seat seats three confortably and they fold down for the dog to ride in the back. When the seat is folded down you can place a baby seat on it and there are special hooks in the back panel for it.

    I would highly recommend it to anyone considering an SUV or other trucks. Ford did a great job making this.

    GG
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    I don't know guys I keep my tires at 44psi. They seem to wear better and the truck doesn't seem as 'spongy'. But, I guess it's going to be personal preference.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Did you ever get your tonneau yet? If you did how do you like it? Oh have you been fishing yet? We've got a nice little hurricane headed this wway(FL) so looks I'll be goiing to Miami Friday to help inlaws with storm shutters.
  • fordsporttracfordsporttrac Member Posts: 300
    No Cover Yet. But I haven't been pushing them cuz I've been busy with my trade show. I'm off to San Fran tomorrow to our Hot Stage to help configure the equipment.

    BTW Folks
    I saw an report on Channel 2 News this morning. Seems the Japanese Auto makers have a dirty little secrete.

    Apparently it is shameful to ship defective cars and the Japanese stock holders get upset if they do. BUT it seems they HAVE been shipping MANY MANY defective cars and NOT reporting or acknowledging it. Some potentially Dangerous defects (They didn't say what on the news). But they got caught and its causing a big stir. Seems they were quietly fixing the cars. In some cases even going so far as to having the person come in for a minor issue when they we're really fixing something else.

    To their credit they were fixing it. To their discredit it explains the difference in tech bulletins.

    I'll try to read Edmunds from San Fran if I get a chance. If not I'll check back Tuesday.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Damn right!! The ST is the far superior vehicle in this class. Hp/Torque curves, towing, hauling, comfort, quality of interior should I keep going on?? Every review I have read so far praises Fords ST. Granted there are small things everyone would change, but all in all the ST is the King of 4door vehicles.. I know you Nissan guys have buyers remorse, but hey, you only have another 4 years to pay on your inferior 3.3's....
    LOL!
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    OK vince,I agree.You have made your point.Now what?
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    FST;
    I think I read something about the same thing but it only mentioned Mitsubishi, are you saying Nissan was doing this too? I have never considered mitsubishi up there with toyota/nissan/honda.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    I also read that it was just Mitsubishi too.Back in'92 I worked as a detailer for a Mitsubishi dealership...you wouldn't believe the problems they had coming right off the truck. We the first 3000 GT twin turbo in FL, my boss bought it...POS. We had a whole truck load of cars repainted because of "fallout' problems, not being able to get it out. Cars failing right and left at the emission tests. I've always thought that the Mitsu's were Japan's Dodge Omni. I also read that it was just Mitsubishi too. Talk about easy finacing, if you have three bankruptcies you can buy a Mitsubishi. Plus, I guess I'm lucky that my truck is built here in the US.
  • mahimahimahimahi Member Posts: 497
    Wrrrooonnngg! Do you even read what your idiotic self even types? Obviously NOT! Let's break down the items that you say are "far superior": Hp/Torque curves we all saw them here where I posted them not you because YOU couldn't find them(conveniently) you probably did but, saw there wasn't the difference you kept preaching so you didn't post them, that's ok I, exposed your idiotic point of view. BTW, where's the torque curve of the weak pathetic 4.0L in your truck. You probably shouldn't search for it rather, search for some HP instead. Now towing? there's only 100lbs difference Mr. Mathematician. Hauling is only 40lbs. more. Comfort and quality of interior is purely subjective. You can strike the last two from your comment since you don't own or haven't even driven either of these trucks. So if 40lbs more of hauling capacity and 100lbs more towing capacity is a 'far superior' rating to you, then the Frontier gets a 'far superior' rating against your Ranger. Since the Ranger has less reliability and 10 less horsepower(with a larger displacement)than the Frontier. That's right "open mouth insert foot", seems like you do that alot....but, make it fun. Shut down as usual.
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    It seems to me I remember a torque curve on the 4.0 in a mazda B series brochure! But of course Vince never can follow through with anything so maybe someone else will find it.

    Look under your truck yet Vince? It's only been 4 months now! LOL!
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    I found the following on the new Explorer.I wonder if they are going to put it on the ST.And.I wonder if it is a good thing if you 4 wheel alot.I am also somewhat skeptical when some things are controlled electronically,especially if it can go boom at the wrong time.


    The electronic rollover sensors - which will be added to Explorer later in 2001 - provide additional protection by measuring whether the vehicle is tilting, how fast the lean angle is changing and whether the combination means the vehicle is headed for a rollover.

    If a rollover situation is determined by the system, it deploys the head-and-chest side-curtain air bags to help protect passengers in the two front rows - and help keep them inside - until the vehicle comes to a complete stop. The air bags remain inflated for up to 6 seconds - far longer than conventional air bags - to provide additional occupant protection. The location of the air bags and the physics of the deployment decreases the risk of injury to out-of-position passengers.
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    Just a neat thing, popular mechanics took a frontier CC and made it their UFO hunter, they show it in the april 2000 issue, I went to the website, but couldn't find anything there, they put ALOT of stuff on it, radio telescope, infrared night vision, GPS, etc.
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    As others have said; it was only Mitsubushi that was concealing defects. So I don't put much stock in your post as the premise that all Japanese car companies do this because one(and not a company with a quality rep)does, is weak. It probably doesn't surprise anyone that they do this. Ever own a Chrysler car with a Mitsubishi engine?

    As an aside, do you think Ford is upfront and tells everybody when it has a problem??!!!!! Blowing up Pintos ring a bell? Go to www.lemonaidcars.com and check out Ford's "secret warranties" and read how they don't admit to consumers when they have a problem. Now, I am only using Ford as an example because this is a Ford vs Nissan vehicle hall and you own a Ford. Most car companies are mentioned as doing the same thing in the article.

    So, even if all Japanese car companies did this, the NA companies do too!!

    By the way, you never responded to my past post...I don't want you to get the wrong idea that I was ripping the ST...I wasn't. I think Ford IS GOING AFTER a different market as we discussed before. That is why their base ST is more upscale than the CC. and even though the extras can justify the much higher cost in a pricing sense, I couldn't justify to myself the extra cost for a 4 door 4x4 truck with some creature comforts. You, and many others will be able to and Ford will sell many STs
  • lflsdlflsd Member Posts: 5
    I heard a news report this morning that Venezuela is going to ban Ford Explorers from operating in their country and will be filing criminal charges against Ford due to stability problems which have resulted in fatal accidents. Other reports have indicated Ford knew prior to introduction of the Explorer that they had stability problems and their fix was to advise drivers to keep their tires under-inflated that helped contribute to the tire failures. I have to laugh when I see these full-page ads that Ford is running in newspapers around the country stating that "There are two things we never take lightly: your safety and your trust". This tire debacle is going to reveal the only thing that Ford does not take lightly is making a profit.
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    I would not put too much stock in what is going on in Venezuala. The new president is taking a definite anti-american stance with his buddy-buddy act with Kadafy and Hussein, his hard line talk about oil prices to the USA and other actions. I would suspect that this is just a move to get rid of all U.S. made vehicles.
    As far as stabilty goes, any SUV is a rollover candidate if you do not drive them right. It is a matter of simple physics. Center of gravity in relationship to wheelbase width. As to the tire pressure, Every expert has testified that the 26-30 psi tire pressure that Ford recommended does not contribute to the problem. The problem is when the pressure goes below 10-15 psi.
    Ford is betwen a rock and a hard place. Right now it is only the tires that are mainly on the Explorers. If the recall expands, it will get more into tires used on GM, Dodge, Toyota and Nissan. That moves some of the media heat to all manufacturers, but increases the cost of supporting the recall for their customers.

    As far as the Pinto goes, every car manufacturer used the same fuel system. A group of lawyers picked on Ford because they had the best case at that time. It could have been any manufacturer.
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    My point about the Pinto wasn't that it was bad engineering, or that Ford was the only one with the blow-up problem,; only that Ford hides (or tries to hide) problems with it's vehicles from the public too; much like Mitsubishi...That is why Ralph Nader became popular - all the Car companies did - and probably still do. I am not positive about this; but I thought that I read Ford has quietly settled lawsuits about the tire problem in the past and used gag orders as part of the settlements. It might have been Firestone,...but I think it was Ford.
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    Do you expect Ford to be shouting to the rooftops that they have problems that (1) could be caused by drivers negligence or (2) were believed caused by the occasional bad apple(tire). Maybe they were too trusting in believing what Firestone told them, but that is natural. Firestone may be covering up their problems, and if so, they would probably lie to Ford.

    Ralph Nader became famous (not popular, there is a big difference)with his book 'Unsafe at Any Speed' which was an attack on the Corvair, a GM product. His book was as poor a reporting job as the NBC faked video of the 'exploding' GM trucks. He used video of the first model year Corvair and applied it to all Corvairs. His data was over 5 years old and was in no way indicative of almost all Corvairs. His book killed a decent little car with falsehoods and induendos.

    Ford never tried to cover up the Pinto situation. Their premise was always that the vehicle met all safety standards of the time and was typical of car construction of the era. What was so important about that case is that Ford did not lose because they did anything wrong. They lost because they did not anticipate a potential problem. It changed the legal landscape by saying you don't have to be wrong, you just have to be right in the future. This opened up a string of lawsuits, including ones against the small airplane manufacturers. Shortly thereafter, all small aircraft manufacturing closed in the U.S. because of lawsuits brought even when the crashes were caused mistakes by mechanics or bad replacement parts (non-OEM).
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    Was it typical for all cars to blow up when they were rear ended? I don't pretend to know as much about this stuff as you seem to, but I thought the Pinto's were blowing up? I don't remember all the other cars blowing up and turning into fireballs. Did they? I don't think it is okay to make your product meet, not beat, government standards then throw up your hands and say "it's not our fault, we met standards!" I think government standards are minimums and all companies should try to exceed these standards; especially if they know the standards are to low...remember who legislates these standards...politicians!!Ever here of politicians being paid off??

    Agian we are getting off point; All I was trying to say in the first place is that it isn't just Mitsubishi who hides problems with their cars. By the way...I really don't feel sorry for poor Ford because they picked on its pinto!

    As for Ralph Nader...maybe that is what made him famous in the first place, but he did alot more after that.

    Your comment about Ford only tries to hide problems because they are probably driver error or another companies fault?? right!
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Isn't Firestone/Bridgestone Japanese owned?
  • goobagooba Member Posts: 391
    Your point?
  • nightsharknightshark Member Posts: 1
    I originally was convinced that the Sport Trac was the "winter" vehicle for me. BUT, this tire thing demonstrated something I had just [non-permissible content removed]/u/me-d, and it very well could have. Seems reasonable that anyone making a sport-ute would put a full cage in the body, so that if you blew a tire - drifted onto the shoulder - or haplessly accomplished flipping your ute in some other way, you would suffer the blood rushing to your head and not the roof rushing to your head. When I saw the pictures of flipped Explorers with the roof crushed down to the windowsills, I figured if I wasn't out of my mind, I would be the first time it turned turtle. On the other hand, I personaly witnessed a Pathfinder wander into the soft shoulder doing about 65 MPH and perform the most perfectly executed 180 spiral ending in a stunning roof slide. This vehicle had 5 people on board, all of which exited with a severe nervous laugh and possible need of an underwear change. This, to me is vastly superior to having your head crushed. All I can say is thanks Firestone, you saved me from making a serious mistake and buying a vehicle that, for want of a less accurate phrase, is an obvious death trap. Maybe Ford will notice the "Pancake Effect" and reinforce the roof in a future model, but for now I'd Rather Be Breathing. Go Nissan, thanks for caring if your customers live or die, don't we wish everybody did.
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    Yup!!!! Bridgestone (Japanese) bought Firestone (USA)after firestone screwed up in the '70's and had a tire recall that almost bankrupted them. I think it was in '88 that Bridgestone bought them out...Notice though, it was still Firestone, not bridgestone tires, that had the problem!
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    Have you; or anyone else for that matter, seen anything that says or shows the Explorer has a weak roof - besides the pictures? What I am looking for is a report on the "cage" of the Explorer and other SUVs to see if it's cage is weaker.

    If Ford did design a weak "cage" on the Explorer in the name of money or performance; I think they should be held liable! All SUV are inherently prone to rollovers! Read the warnings on all the sunvisors! That means the car companies know they are going to roll over so they should strengthen the "cage" to prevent serious injury; no matter the cost. The car companies make more profit margin on SUVs than any of their other vehicles (except maybe trucks) so you would think they would make them safe.

    Vince & ST - if what nightshark is implying is true - don't try sticking up for Ford; they don't deserve it! If it isn't true, then disregard this.
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    You need to get a grip on reality. Some vehicles will do better than others in a rollover, but most of the roll over damage is not dependent on the vehicle design, but the manner of the accident. You can find cases where all vehicles have rolled with no injuries and you can find cases where everyone was killed. It depends on speed, angle of impact, type of impact and surface where landed. Also rollover cages do not always protect. Most injuries are caused by improper seatbelt use and being thrown out of the vehicle. As far as it goes, Ford has the best safety rating in accidents.
  • keaneckeanec Member Posts: 349
    I don't know why you told me I "need to get a grip on reality" my only comment was in reply to another poster that said the Explorer's pancake when they roll over...His comment-not mine. I just said if it was true then Ford sucks if they didn't design right!!! If it was true - do you want me to repeat that? So go take a flying leap you know where. As for your post, how about some facts? That is what i was asking the opther poster for - one side or the other.
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    You tell everyone to not defend Ford on something that you have already made your mind up about. That is why I tell you to get a grip. You immediately say that it must be a design flaw without looking at the reality of driving any vehicle. Anyone can find pictures of SUVs of any manufacturer that have any damage you care to mention. You can argue design day-in and day-out. You want a tank, buy a tank. You demand facts on a subject that is subjective to the circumstances. Fact one: no vehicle is designed to be rolled. Fact two: The crush factor in a rollover is based on numerous variables which cannot be totally predetermined. As example, you could drop a vehicle from a given height and if it hits flat on the roof, the vehicle will not crush. That same vehicle if it hits at an angle or hits an object which creases the roofline will crumble. Fact three: The more you increase the roof structure,the more weight you add, which then makes the vehicle's center of gravity higher and thus more prone to rollover. You want the facts? You don't know how to handle the facts.
This discussion has been closed.