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Nissan Frontier Crew Cab vs Ford Explorer Sport Trac - II
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Comments
Went straight to the dealer, talk about taking the Lamb to the slaughter !
Actually, the same magazine did backup Vince's assertion that the Ranger was a good vehicle; as long as you didn't look at pre-1998. Funny thing....... almost every other vehicle I looked at in this magazine rated really well until you started to get to the pre-1998. So...initial quality is good; but reliablity (long-term) is a different story. They even rated the 1998-1999 Windstar as excellent; Right!!!!
How are you comparing the 2? Lets start with the sun roof.
Correct me if I'm wrong;
For example, you can't compare the CC & ST if they have sun roofs. The ST is electric and the CC is manual. So that is not comparably equipped.
Lets try just the base CC and the Base ST with no add-ons and compare from that point. What is in the Base CC vs what is in the Base ST.
I appologize for kinda dumping this question when I should be answering it myself but I've got to get ready for a trade show and things are hopping here.
What I was getting at, was to get an ST that has the minimum features of my CC 4x4 SE, you are going to pay much more... That is NOT to say you aren't getting EXTRAS with the ST at that price; better sunroof, bigger engine (bigger/heavier vehicle, power rear slider, and the ever popular rear power point for all those campers who are going to buy the ST - Joke, and etc..) BUT to get the minimum features of the CC you pay away more because of the "extras" Ford gives.
As to the base plain 4x4 w/4 doors, what is the ST listed at & what is the CC listed at? That would be the minimum you would have to pay to get a Ford 4x4 ST or a Nissan 4x4 CC. Then you would have to add any discounts/premiums dealers will give/charge. I think you would probably find the Nissan comes out much cheaper; granted you might not have as many extras, but you would have a 4x4 crew cab. Not I am not sure about this, it is just a guess...If I have time I will look up the base prices.
Please, Please read the article...
Read on Kitty!
dennisc2: By your own argument, 65% of Nissan owners are ignorant morons. I would agree that there are a lot of them out there, but it is not brand specific. I used to be scared of little old ladies in cadillacs when I was biking, but now the scary ones are teenage girls in Honda Civics. They buy the car for its reputation and their spoiled little princes drives it like she is in her bedroom on the phone.
vince8: They have read the article and do not care. Give it up. No one should judge a vehicle on someone else opinion anyway. Articles are good tools, but they do not rate dealers and they do not give the impression that you can only get from actual seat experience. Heck, my wife has a 93 Shadow. Lousy reputation, 120,000 miles and the only parts replaced has been the rear shocks and the rear hatch struts. I cannot stand the thing, but it fits her and all of our relatives amaze of how powerful the engine is compared to their Nissan/Saturn/Mercedes. It is not a black and white issue.
mahi: On a long haul Sunday, I noticed several CCs in the Wichita area. Allwere the silver/grey color except one which was the bright yellow. Interesting, but it reminded me of an ODOT truck.
We got the yellow because it was different,it was easy to spot in the parking garage,and for safety.We have alot of winter visitors in my town,and I figure they would not be able to have the excuse that they did not see me coming.If that is the case they are BLIND and need to be taken off the road. :-D
And this constant comment about 160HP, The Nissan only puts out 10HP more! Do you not understand what 10 HP means in relation to 160 or 170HP? This proves once again you don't know anything about what a HP/Torque curve is! I see you fail to mention the huge Torque gap of Nissan at 200ft/lbs and the Ranger at 225ft/lbs.. I wonder why???....
Also, what tire pressure are CC owners running? (with the stock 16" tires)My manual says 26, but a couple of people told me that is too low and I should put at least 30lbs in; especially since I haul trailers a lot.
Any comments?
As far as the oil dipstick,I took some white paint and marked mine so that it was easier to read.
The tire pressure,I suggest you run it at 26-28psi when not loaded or towing and jump the pressure up to what is on the tire when you are loaded.That pressure is fully loaded and the tire should work fine.
I would highly recommend it to anyone considering an SUV or other trucks. Ford did a great job making this.
GG
BTW Folks
I saw an report on Channel 2 News this morning. Seems the Japanese Auto makers have a dirty little secrete.
Apparently it is shameful to ship defective cars and the Japanese stock holders get upset if they do. BUT it seems they HAVE been shipping MANY MANY defective cars and NOT reporting or acknowledging it. Some potentially Dangerous defects (They didn't say what on the news). But they got caught and its causing a big stir. Seems they were quietly fixing the cars. In some cases even going so far as to having the person come in for a minor issue when they we're really fixing something else.
To their credit they were fixing it. To their discredit it explains the difference in tech bulletins.
I'll try to read Edmunds from San Fran if I get a chance. If not I'll check back Tuesday.
LOL!
I think I read something about the same thing but it only mentioned Mitsubishi, are you saying Nissan was doing this too? I have never considered mitsubishi up there with toyota/nissan/honda.
Look under your truck yet Vince? It's only been 4 months now! LOL!
The electronic rollover sensors - which will be added to Explorer later in 2001 - provide additional protection by measuring whether the vehicle is tilting, how fast the lean angle is changing and whether the combination means the vehicle is headed for a rollover.
If a rollover situation is determined by the system, it deploys the head-and-chest side-curtain air bags to help protect passengers in the two front rows - and help keep them inside - until the vehicle comes to a complete stop. The air bags remain inflated for up to 6 seconds - far longer than conventional air bags - to provide additional occupant protection. The location of the air bags and the physics of the deployment decreases the risk of injury to out-of-position passengers.
As an aside, do you think Ford is upfront and tells everybody when it has a problem??!!!!! Blowing up Pintos ring a bell? Go to www.lemonaidcars.com and check out Ford's "secret warranties" and read how they don't admit to consumers when they have a problem. Now, I am only using Ford as an example because this is a Ford vs Nissan vehicle hall and you own a Ford. Most car companies are mentioned as doing the same thing in the article.
So, even if all Japanese car companies did this, the NA companies do too!!
By the way, you never responded to my past post...I don't want you to get the wrong idea that I was ripping the ST...I wasn't. I think Ford IS GOING AFTER a different market as we discussed before. That is why their base ST is more upscale than the CC. and even though the extras can justify the much higher cost in a pricing sense, I couldn't justify to myself the extra cost for a 4 door 4x4 truck with some creature comforts. You, and many others will be able to and Ford will sell many STs
As far as stabilty goes, any SUV is a rollover candidate if you do not drive them right. It is a matter of simple physics. Center of gravity in relationship to wheelbase width. As to the tire pressure, Every expert has testified that the 26-30 psi tire pressure that Ford recommended does not contribute to the problem. The problem is when the pressure goes below 10-15 psi.
Ford is betwen a rock and a hard place. Right now it is only the tires that are mainly on the Explorers. If the recall expands, it will get more into tires used on GM, Dodge, Toyota and Nissan. That moves some of the media heat to all manufacturers, but increases the cost of supporting the recall for their customers.
As far as the Pinto goes, every car manufacturer used the same fuel system. A group of lawyers picked on Ford because they had the best case at that time. It could have been any manufacturer.
Ralph Nader became famous (not popular, there is a big difference)with his book 'Unsafe at Any Speed' which was an attack on the Corvair, a GM product. His book was as poor a reporting job as the NBC faked video of the 'exploding' GM trucks. He used video of the first model year Corvair and applied it to all Corvairs. His data was over 5 years old and was in no way indicative of almost all Corvairs. His book killed a decent little car with falsehoods and induendos.
Ford never tried to cover up the Pinto situation. Their premise was always that the vehicle met all safety standards of the time and was typical of car construction of the era. What was so important about that case is that Ford did not lose because they did anything wrong. They lost because they did not anticipate a potential problem. It changed the legal landscape by saying you don't have to be wrong, you just have to be right in the future. This opened up a string of lawsuits, including ones against the small airplane manufacturers. Shortly thereafter, all small aircraft manufacturing closed in the U.S. because of lawsuits brought even when the crashes were caused mistakes by mechanics or bad replacement parts (non-OEM).
Agian we are getting off point; All I was trying to say in the first place is that it isn't just Mitsubishi who hides problems with their cars. By the way...I really don't feel sorry for poor Ford because they picked on its pinto!
As for Ralph Nader...maybe that is what made him famous in the first place, but he did alot more after that.
Your comment about Ford only tries to hide problems because they are probably driver error or another companies fault?? right!
If Ford did design a weak "cage" on the Explorer in the name of money or performance; I think they should be held liable! All SUV are inherently prone to rollovers! Read the warnings on all the sunvisors! That means the car companies know they are going to roll over so they should strengthen the "cage" to prevent serious injury; no matter the cost. The car companies make more profit margin on SUVs than any of their other vehicles (except maybe trucks) so you would think they would make them safe.
Vince & ST - if what nightshark is implying is true - don't try sticking up for Ford; they don't deserve it! If it isn't true, then disregard this.