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Any downside to buying a hybrid?
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They still make them so they must be selling somewhere?
because the hood is in the way
2) pantograph windshield wipers that can't be lifted away from the glass
3) "switchblade" keys that eventually break and cost over $100 to replace
4) cupholders that only hold small drinks
5) cupholders that let cups tip easily
6) locking glovebox right below CD changer that doesn't lock
7) plastic shields and covers in the engine compartment that don't protect anything
9) oil filter mounting positions that dribble oil all over the place when changing filters
10) tiny print on switches, knobs, and levers
11) spare tire wells that won't fit full-size spares
12) power antennas
13) wheels held on by bolts instead of studs and nuts
14) 12v power outlets that you have to open an ashtray to access
Culliganman (a little tarnish on my star)
What percentage of ethanol do they have in your winter gas? That knocks milege down horribly. I think there is a fix for the flakey gas gauge. Check out this TSB...
rpgolfer, "Toyota Prius 2004+" #3968, 5 Dec 2004 10:48 pm
I had a 2000 Volvo V70XC which we recently traded in on our Escape Hybrid. In 57k miles worth of dealer maintenance I estimate we easily spent $3-4k on routine service. It was all but impossible to get out of the dealer's service dept for less than $100. Then at just about 52k miles the electronic throttle module called it quits. This is a $900+ repair. At 55k miles the accelerator pedal sensor dies, which I replaced my self at a parts cost of about $80 (would've been another $200 for dealer to diagnose and I'd bet they'd want to replace the $1000 computer instead of the accelerator pedal).
Yes, hybrid cars are different and complicated. But the same is true of any new car. The benefits in terms of fuel efficiency and reduced emissions have to be weighed, and a simple cost analysis doesn't begin to cover it.
That is true, however some are worse than others. One poster with a Prius paid $300 for a 12 volt battery from Toyota. Another was fighting with the dealer over a $2100 Catalytic convertor. Maybe it is foreign cars that rip you on repairs and maintenance. My wife paid $1549 for a power steering pump in her Lexus LSS400. I found a place that specializes in Lexus and the prices are about 25% of what the dealer charges for repair. For example the fuel gauge went bad and the dealer wanted $1200 to repair it. Our specialist did it for $330 the part was $240.
By contrast to your situation with Volvo the Suburban I have is over 6 years old. It has always been serviced at the Chevy dealer. I did not buy it from him. He still only charges me $21.95 for lube and oil change. I have not spent $4k on that vehicle in six and a half years. That includes lifetime brakes at Firestone and a new set of Michelin tires.
Again I would say that is the dealers horrible markup on parts and labor. If you live in a town that is large enough, there should be a competent mechanic that is familiar with Toyota. He may not know all the ins & outs of the Prius yet, but he could probably get the computer diagnostics software and figure it out. My wife just had her 1990 LS400 into the dealer for the last time. He charged her $109 to change oil, filter and routine check. He had a list of about $5k dollars worth of needed repairs. We took it to this Lexus shop and he did all the work that was needed for $1,100. Two of the items were not bad. That included new ball joint, valve covers and pan gaskets, the fuel sending unit. He used to work in a dealership and said Lexus usually doubles the MSRP price on parts. Once your warranty is up on a car you need to find a competent mechanic. The dealers want to make it as expensive as they can to convince you that a new car is a better option...
Many people changed tires to improve the handling. It will cost you a couple MPG. If you are in a cold place 41.8 mpg is probably not bad for the winter time. Lousy winter gas blend. I would get a second opinion on that front end it could leave you stranded at an inconvenient time and place.
As for your steering problem, there was a recall on the electric power steering rack on many early Priuses. Your dealer should check your VIN and see if the rack was replaced under the recall. Some of us also received a warranty extension note on the steering rack removing the mileage limitation.
My experience as an owner of a 2002 Prius is that Toyota has done an excellent job standing behind the model and have gone out of their way to ensure a positive experience for the owner. I think this is because they realized early on that the Prius buyer may not be a customer who has dealt with Toyota in the past and they wanted to make a good first impression...
I own a Honda Insight.
NO. 1) recessed or "concealed" windshield wipers that freeze and can't be freed because the hood is in the way
NO. 2) pantograph windshield wipers that can't be lifted away from the glass
NO. 3) "switchblade" keys that eventually break and cost over $100 to replace
NO. 4) cupholders that only hold small drinks
NO. 5) cupholders that let cups tip easily
NO(no cd). 6) locking glovebox right below CD changer that doesn't lock
YES. 7) plastic shields and covers in the engine compartment that don't protect anything
Where's (8)?
YES. 9) oil filter mounting positions that dribble oil all over the place when changing filters
NO. 10) tiny print on switches, knobs, and levers
NO. 11) spare tire wells that won't fit full-size spares
NO. 12) power antennas
NO. 13) wheels held on by bolts instead of studs and nuts
NO. 14) 12v power outlets that you have to open an ashtray to access
Hope that satisfies you.
:-)
Thanks for your consideration,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
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So: do you know anything about this? Is it true that the Highlander Hybrid gets scarcely better mileage than the gas-only model? If so, do you think that makes it not worth getting? Owners, what are your experiences?
Thanks.
Downthehighway
Bourbonnais, IL
Welcome to the Forum
Anyway, we averaged 26 - 27 mpg on the trip back from Nashville to the Florida Panhandle. Same for next tank of gas which took us to and from the Gulf Coast on a vacation - some stop and go but a lot of rural highway driving.
But back in town I'm averaging 23 mpg and not sure if it my driving (I traded a 2001 Acura Cl - very peppy little car) for this HH (I have Limited edition - it was the one they had on the car lot) and of course, driving with the air on - this is the Gulf Coast in the dead of summer. We grow mildew here as a cash crop.
I've realized the coasting capability of the car so you are not using gas but I feel like I'm either driving too fast or doing something "wrong". I'd love some tips on the best way to drive this vehicle and also what grade of gasoline. I was told it ran on regular but wondered if higher grade would increase mpg.
Would love to hear from other owners/drivers!
mmreid
BUT, you need to drive as if you WANT to maximize mileage. The combination of the electric motor and V6 make this a real peppy machine, and you can easily get the V6 running, which uses gas. A light foot and not being pushed at stop lights makes the vehicle run on electric. I'm learning to use the MPG gauge and take it easy - you have to be willing to let lead foot (ie most every other) drivers zip away. And from other discussions it seems folks aren't used to using cruise control on open highway. When things are moving around here you can set the cruise to 55-65 and watch even at that speed where the motor/battery take over and the MPG gauge goes to 50-60.
Would we buy this vehicle again? Absolutely. Gas has gone up 15-20 cents a gallon in the time we've owned it, and while not a pessimist I take the realist stance that we're not going to see this stop despite the brighter views of some. If you're looking for a break even then you might or might not get it. In the bigger picture, every improvement in MPG reduces overall demand and that ight actually force the price down, help to kwwp down other energy costs and reduce the trade deficit. To us it was more than just breaking even at the pump, we think we've made a decision, given one that costs us, that is responsible. But we also buy wind-generated power from our electric utility and pay that premium too.
One more time, this is a wonderful vehicle that both my van-driving self and Corolla-driving wife compromised on. We traded in both vehicles (forcing us to walk and bike more, a good thing!) and believe in the end we will be balancing cost/benefit toward benefit. And since I need something larger than a Corolla or Prius for my work it was a good choice. The HH is probably the best vehicle we have both ever owned, and adding in the many rentals from Suzukis in Australia to Mercedes in Germany that I've driven over the years, up with the very best I have driven. You need to decide the value, I'd highly recommend the HH - and working on driving different. - John
The hybrid SUVs are getting more than marginal gains; more so than the lightweights like Prius. What's obscuring the matter is the way EPS rates fuel efficiency. A 33mpg conventional econobox uses 3 gallons of fuel in 100 miles driven, and a hybrid on even at 50mpg saves only 1 of those 3 gallons. A conventional midsize SUV rated at 19mpg uses 5.26 gallons in 100 miles; a hybrid version at 27mpg uses 3.7 gallons instead. That's a saving of over 1.5 gallons over the same 100 miles. The math gets even more compelling when a 10mpg sportscar or big SUV gets improved to 16mpg using hybrid; the 6mpg difference would translate to 6 gallons of fuel saved in 100 miles. EPS need to catch up with how the rest of the world rates fuel efficiency; people have to drive certainly amount of miles due to living arrangement; they are not given a government alotment of fuel and told to drive as far as they can (as in the current mpg rating).
Thanks to "detonation/knock" detection systems, many cars adjust timing to better match fuel to engine. But this often results in reduced performance.
Anyhoo, a friend of mine is on the waiting list for a Highlander hybrid, spending $10,000 more than the conventional Highlander. I guess for your serious long distance {off}-roadtripper, the hybrid is fantastic but unfortunately, most SUV's don't see the light of day on any off road for most are driven by road hogs who like to see their paintwork ever-glossy and their rims spinning. Friend is one of those rarities who is both environmentally conscious as well as rich. I can only stay away from the hybrid for now until I can safely say that I will save around $8,000 to $10,000 worth of gas in the next 5-10 years.
It also bugs me that the least of the gas-guzzlers are the first to be made even more fuel efficient...the Honda Civic, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and at last the SUV's like the Escape, Saturn Vue and Highlander are finally allowed to follow. When are we going to see Escalades, HumVees and other behemoths of the road less hateful to the environment? When is my future car...the beloved Honda Element going to be a hybrid...or at least a V6? You think incorporating the word 'Element' into the model name would mean it's a nature-loving, zen-like vehicle.
My last point is will there ever be the reincarnation of the Far Ultra Violet car that was taking effect in the late seventies? Using a saturation of ultraviolet solar power, these cars {no, not the Sinclair monstrosity} looked as if they'd be the cars of the future.
OK, I'm done.
1) Luxury of a Lexus (all the toys and safety features you can think of)
2) Residual value of a Lexus
3) Acceleration of a sports car or a V8 engine (0-60mph in less than 7 secs)
4) Spaciouness/ride height of an SUV
5) Gas mileage of a small car (hopefully..as of now I am getting 24mpg but expect it to rise to 27 once broken in which is what my other car gives)
6) Lowest emission possible for a mass produced SUV or Car (SULEV)
7) $2000 tax deduction (approx $3000 tax CREDIT for ppl who buy in 2006)
I do not think there is anything better out there for someone who has the budget for it. So no downside as far as I am concerned.
"Police forces throughout the country will soon have the opportunity to trial the new Lexus RX 400h, the world’s first high performance hybrid SUV.
Starting with Hampshire Police, the RX 400h will be fitted out to full police specification, including the Nemesis, camera monitoring system."
and
"The Lexus RX 400h is the world’s first premium SUV to feature a hybrid power system. It achieves a unique position in the market by not only delivering the low exhaust emissions and high fuel efficiency that are well-established characteristics of hybrid power, but also by providing the high performance that has until now been the preserve of large-capacity petrol engine models.
The RX 400h’s Hybrid Synergy Drive® system combines a 3.3-litre V6 petrol engine with a 165bhp front electric motor that has a world’s-best power to weight and volume ratio, a high voltage battery and a generator."
I've moved the Octane posts to the discussion Premium v. Regular Gas - worth the extra money?
Thanks!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
Anyway, we looked at Envoy, Toureg, Explorer, Expedition, Durango, 4 Runner and at the suggestion of my daughter and son-in-law the Highlander. We also gave short consideration to the Toyota Highlander Hybrid but initially thought the price was too high.
Then last Friday we drove to upstate New York to meet with the builder of our second home.
Round trip from our home to the building site -- about 300 miles roundtrip.
After the return home, as I fillEd upthe tank I said to my wife...”this trip upstate just cost us $100! I think we know what car we need to buy.”
The next day we purchased the Toyota Highlander Hybrid. We picked it up yesterday and it really has more power than I expected and seems to be the perfect choice.
Jack
Assuming you take care of your cars, your GS should be good for many more miles. The depreciation and transaction costs of buying a new car will wipe out any gas savings for many years.
Not to mention a Lexus GS is head and shoulders above a Prius in ride quality, luxury and comfort.
Post the details about your GS and we can have a better idea.
We bought our Prius because the old car required repairs that exceeded the value of the car and we wanted a fuel efficient car that had stability control, curtain airbags, and a nav system.
BTW, the Prius is luxury car quiet and rides very comfortably. A GS, in my opinion, is nicer, but not head and shoulders above.
Neither car is bad, but they have completely different sets of buyer demographics. No one, cross shops the Prius with a Lexus GS 300 or GS430.
Cheers,
MidCow
The Prius chassis is based on the Toyota Echo. There is nothing you can put on that chassis to make it even mentionable in the same sentence as a Lexus GS.
(1) Lack of selection. When it comes to cars, different people have different preferences when it comes to things such as styling and space requirements. The odds of your "favorite" car (most comfortable, most enjoyable driving experience, best size/shape/design, etc.) being a hybrid are low simply because there aren't many hybrids to choose from. So, if a consumer is set on buying a hybrid, the lack of choice forces the consumer to compromise for what's available.
My personal experience with this lack of choice: Among other things, the interior styling of the Prius just didn't do it for me...I wish I could've chosen a different 5-door hybrid, but of course there's nothing else available.
(2) Some of the newer hybrids are too focused on "performance" and not focused enough on maximizing fuel economy. Take the Honda Accord Hybrid for example: it's got the same horsepower and torque as the regular Honda Accord V6...a 4-cylinder version would get significantly better gas mileage. As it is, if you're willing to sacrifice horsepower, you can get near the same gas mileage as the Honda Accord Hybrid just by buying a 4-cylinder non-hybrid Honda Accord! Why pay so much more for the Accord Hybrid...not to save gas, more realistically it's to increase performance without increasing gas consumption. Give me a 4-cylinder Accord Hybrid and I'd consider it...not the V6 version though. Why is everyone so obsessed with horsepower?
(3) Specific to the Prius: I'm 5'10", and when sitting in the back seat I couldn't rest my head on the headrest without my head hitting the roof. In my opinion, the aerodynamic design compromises the interior space by one or two inches too many in the back.
Ok, hope this churns up some conversation
Excellent points! I agree with you. I also like cars with manual shift.
cruis'n in 6th :shades: ,
MidCow