Any downside to buying a hybrid?

falconone · October 2005

I have a feeling the Camry hybrid will have some of the Prius toys to make it more appealing. Just a thought!!

michael_mattox · October 2005

lASB

WELL lets get crazy and drag a fact into this...US unemployment 5.1%....Germany somewhere NORTH of 10%....Greatest enonomy in the free world the U.S. Because we buy stuff we want not just stuff we need...The American way.

michael_mattox · October 2005

It is said that in 07 Lexus will be out with a HYBRID Version of it's LS (LS460H) or some such...30 mpg avg and 400 HP...0-60 in under 5 (don't know how far under)

Ford Explorer is out with it's Hybrid it should have sufficent power for you...remember it works with any size engine. I am sure the new Hybrid Camry will have sufficent get up and go for a family car.

michael_mattox · October 2005

lasb:

People who like POWER off the line...will love hybrids in sports cars...

Some people have the misconception that a Hybrid limits power it does just the opposite it enhances whatever power the car would have if no hybrid.

larsb · October 2005

I'm not saying at all "Stop buying what you want and only buy what you need," I'm not saying that at all.

What I am saying is that we CAN slightly modify the target of our wants and needs without changing our economy or our way of life in drastic ways.

As more models of cars and trucks and SUVs get hybridized, the choices improve and more and more people can "have exactly what they WANT" and STILL end up in a Hybrid !! That's the goal !!

michael_mattox · October 2005

larsb:

If Americans CHOOSE to do that... they will. Unlike Europe and the socialized countries we don't like being managed into doing one thing or another....My wife wanted a hybrid so I got her one...If she wanted big old SUV with a huge gas guzzling engine I would have gotten her that. If we ever become robots dancing to the toon of and manipulated by the Government and kooky Ecology nuts...I find a nice Island to live on away from it all because this will no longer be the USA that we know.

larsb · October 2005

Let's hope Americans have enough common sense to see the light. They always have in the past.

michael_mattox · October 2005

LARSB

The really neat thing about our country is we do all see the light...our very own personal light...In socialist countries they seem to see the same light...we are different...

kdhspyder · October 2005

just announced today TRD is making the supercharger available for the tC. It should boost the HP up to 200 now. The cost is abt $3200 + installation.

kdhspyder

PF_Flyer · October 2005

Let's stay on topic here. if you want to discuss the tC, head on over over to the Scion tC discussion.

kdhspyder · October 2005

Here's an interesting little side note on the Prius Gen1 and Gen2. Since the beginning it has had Traction Control standard. Nice. Good safety feature right? Well not exactly the reason. Since electric motors have 100% torque immediately they found that without Trac the original electric motor, not to mention the HSD, had way too much torque for the vehicle and spun the tires leaving black smokey streaks at initial acceleration.

Now there's a nice vision for your enviro-friendly vehicle.

Without Trac this extreme initial torque also wore down the tires mercilessly. So they added Trac to diminish the initial acceleration if one were to stomp on the pedal at takeoff.

kdhspyder

snakeweasel · October 2005

Delurking here for a moment.

Actually Carrman is pretty much right. Economically speaking it may not be the best buy as there is a premium on hybrids that would tens of thousands of miles driven to overcome which could take years. Case in point we (me and she who must be obeyed) were considering purchasing another smaller car. Looking around we actually compared the Prius with the Elantra Hatchback. We calculated out that it would take us a little over 7 years and over 125,000 miles to recoup the extra cost that the base Prius cost over the base Elantra.

Now add into the equation the possibility of paying thousands of dollars down the road for new batteries and it is possible that an owner will never recoup the "premium" that hybrids have.

Not to mention that I do have concerns about the new technology and a more complicated drive system. Maybe in a few years when prices come down and things are more perfected I might look at one, but not right now.

falconone · October 2005

Again, we have someone comparing apples to oranges. First off... the Elantra can't hold a candle to the Prius. It IS what it is. Basic cheap transportation. VERY hard to find one with ABS. Boring and I mean BORING to drive. No goodies to speak of. I'd consider it if I needed a station car (cheap car to park at metro train station).

kdhspyder · October 2005

You are correct about the money issue, sir. But what has been discussed here ad infinitum is that often the Prius is being compared to the compact cars like Elantra, Civic, Corolla or Mazda3 when in fact it is a midsized car like the Accord, Camry, et. al. It is absolutely certain that one can buy a compact ICE vehicle much cheaper than a Prius and that delta will be large so that it would take years and years to recoup the premium through variable fuel savings.

But as in deciding on an ES330 vs a Camry the Prius buyer now is deciding on a midsized vehicle vs a compact vehicle because the midsized vehicle has more amenities and a nicer ride. The fuel savings are an added benefi though WAY down the list of reasons to buy. Then there are the tax benefits and the Prius becomes very attractive.

Enjoy your new vehicle

kdhspyder

snakeweasel · October 2005

I don't think we are comparing apples to oranges. Both vehicles are pretty much the same in dimensions and the base cars pretty much have the same equipment (maybe th Elantra has a bit more standard) and it does have some goodies (lets face it things like navigation systems are little used overpriced accessories).

As for not being able to hold a candle to a Prius, a friend of mine couldn't keep up to my Elantra wagon with 125,000 miles on it in his brand new Prius.

I do believe it is a good comparison and a good example of being able to get good reliable transportation at a price so much lower than hybrid that it overshadows the fuel savings of a hybrid.

snakeweasel · October 2005

You are correct about the money issue, sir. But what has been discussed here ad infinitum is that often the Prius is being compared to the compact cars like Elantra, Civic, Corolla or Mazda3 when in fact it is a midsized car like the Accord, Camry, et. al.

Really, looking at the dimensions of both the Prius and the Elantra hatchback I would say that they are comparable. Most of the measurements are within an inch of each other, with the notable exception of cargo space (Elantra has much more) and rear seating area (the Elantra has much more hip room but the Prius has much more leg room). Just looking at the dimensions I would think the two would be a very good comparison.

heyjewel · October 2005

" I also knew my Ford Exploder was going to fail in a big way as its warranty was about to expire."

What ever posessed you to buy the thing in the first place if you "knew" it was going to fall apart after 36,000 miles?? And as for fuel savings, your Lexus gets, what, 7 mpg more than the explorer on a good day? And that's got the Saudi princes running for cover? Furthermore, the Lexus is smaller than the Explorer, has a less-capable 4WD system and costs at least $20,000 more. Any downsides? Ha.

Oh and one more tidbit for all you Ford haters and Toyota lovers - the media probably won't cover this very well since they also fit the above description but Toyota just recalled 1.41 MILLION vehicles. Including 75,000 Priui - the latter for dying on the road as most of you know. Ah, perfection thy name (WAS) Toyota.

heyjewel · October 2005

"But what has been discussed here ad infinitum is that often the Prius is being compared to the compact cars like Elantra, Civic, Corolla or Mazda3 when in fact it is a midsized car like the Accord, Camry, et. al."

Discussed ad infinitum or not, you are incorrect, Sir. The Prius is a COMPACT sedan. Even Edmunds agrees on that. 175 inches long as compared to 191 for the Accord. The Prius is small, let's be real here. Seats 4 max. It's a compact and a mighty expensive one at that.

BTW, are you a Toyota salesman? I saw you quoting how "we have this many corollas and that many Camrys etc". Just want to know where you're coming from.

katzjamr · October 2005

I purchased the 99 Explorer new and did not have expectations of it failing prematurely. However i found out that Ford engineerd a design flaw in all 99 dohc v6's in the timing chain guides. I got the new engine at 25K. Was happy. When the trans went out at 60K on a well maintained vehicle that never towed anything i knew then it wasnt a long term vehicle. (extended warranty paid for the trans) Also those SUV's tended to rollover, the ride quality sucked, and it had the most uncomfortable seats i have ever owned in a vehicle period. These issues drove me to Toyota, i had never purchased a foreign vehicle before. ( im a slow learner). I still drive ford vans and will purchase more. Every other vehicle i own is a Ford truck. The 400h gives me more than 12mpg than the exploder, with more power, comfort and safety. I do drive in the snow but not offroad. I have every expectation that the 400h 4wd system will serve my needs well. The day i saw someone else with a short commute who wanted the exploder drive it down the road was a happy day.

kdhspyder · October 2005

The answer is yes as I have noted many times here. Disclaimer: I work selling Toyota's. It gives you another perspective.

or another target. But I also sell Accords, Civics, Fords and just about everything else in the market.

And while I do agree that the Prius is smaller than the Camry/Accord/Altima it is still rated as a midsized car by the govt. so that is what it is.

However it is NOT necessarily more expensive than a similar model Camry or Accord unless you want it to be and that's your choice.

Prius loaded up with Navi + leather is ~$29000.. selling for $29000
Accord 4c EX with Navi + Leather is . ~$27500.. selling for $27000
Camry 4c XLE with Leather no Navi .. ~$28000.. selling for $26000
MidCow opined that I should relate the actual transaction prices rather than list prices which is reasonable. Factor in the current tax benefit and the Prius is presently ~$1400 more than the Accord similarly equipped. in 70 days it is likely to be LESS than the Accord. Navi is not available on an XLE 4c Camry.

But you certainly have the right to drive what you wish. Its the reason there are so many models.

Personally if I took a Prius now before the tax changes I'd still 'cancel' the hybrid premium vs the Accord within one year just by the fuel savings. Taking delivery next year I will be ~$2000 to the positive after a year's driving. This is a no brainer..... and by doing so I will send the Saudi princes and ayatollahs about $700-800 less money every year from now on if oil remains at $2.75/gal. But again what you choose to do with your money is your own decision.

Peace

kdhspyder

carrman · October 2005

While hybrids get good mileage in the city, most folks looking for increased gas mileage do so because they commute into the city from distant suburbs.

While things like stability control, nav and 6 airbags are not readily available on the vehicles I mentioned, the Scion, for example, comes standard with power window, mirrors, door locks, abs, upgraded stereo/cd player, i pod connectivity. Frankly, it's design is sound and handling acceptable to not warrant stability control. No heavy batteries and associated hardware to throw it out of kilter while cornering or making emergency manuvers.

While power is a good thing, I find any small econo-box that makes at least 100hp capable of traveling cross country with ease. Emissions get better and better on ALL cars and unfortunately there are few car buyer out there that will pick a car based on it's emission standards.

If I had a real long commute I'd pick-up an inexpensive fuel efficient vehicle like the Echo, Tercel, or Scion Xa for their all around economy, i.e. inexpensive tire and brake replacement, long lasting engine/drivetrain, and of course the low fuel consumption. An expensive hybrid blows the whole economy motif.

misterme · October 2005

"While hybrids get good mileage in the city, most folks looking for increased gas mileage do so because they commute into the city from distant suburbs"

This is precisely why I bought my hybrid.

I travel almost 100 miles a day, 5 days a week from rural N. Ga into the Atlanta city limits.
Just under 1/2 of the trip is rural country roads, just under half is freeway and a few miles of the worst Atlanta 5 'o clock rush hour traffic.

I've been averaging about 64-65MPG +900 mile tanks all summer and with today's prices spend about $20 a week in fuel. I erased any premium paid Vs an equipped Civic EX within the first year.

Echo and Tercel isn't available, but the Scion is.
Check out:
http://www.scion.com/
The few comparable features for a Scion that come standard on an HCH made a total of $20,100.
(Your "Standard" upgraded radio will cost $700 extra)
The newly designed HCH is $21,800.
The lower equipped Scion cost $1,700 less than HCH.

The Scion Xa gets about 34 combined MPG. How much would I spend a week at 34MPG? And knowing that I'm driving a less equipped car?
I'd take a pole, who would trust to be a more dependable engine/drivetrain: A Honda, Toyota or Scion?

I realize that nice features mean little to many buyers who seek pure economy.
Nothing is wrong with that, if it is your market.
But that's why even a basic Scion without SRS curtain airbags at $13,500 isn't a bargain with several cars around $10,000, which get better mileage.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/pricerange/under15k/sedan/index.html?typeindex=T&tid=edmunds.n.- - - - typeindex.content.num1.0.*

krellu · October 2005

One thing nobody has mentioned about the prius,there is no moon roof available.

snakeweasel · October 2005

And while I do agree that the Prius is smaller than the Camry/Accord/Altima it is still rated as a midsized car by the govt. so that is what it is.

Unfortunatly just because the government rates it as such doesn't make it so. It is still small and approximatly the same size as any other small compact car.

Personally if I took a Prius now before the tax changes I'd still 'cancel' the hybrid premium vs the Accord within one year just by the fuel savings.

You must drive a lot, using the EPA ratings you would have to drive over 32,000 miles to make up that difference. Almost 40,000 if you use real world fuel usage. Even more if you factor in the added costs of financing the $2,000 difference and the time value of money. Nope you wont save that in one years driving, the average driver would recoup the extra money in a little less than 3 years.

Not only that but you get a much smaller car.

falconone · October 2005

I once owned an elantra for about 7,000 miles. I used it as a commuter car. Poor mileage for a 4 cyl but reliable transportation. The elantra also has done poorly in side impact tests from the IIHS. You also can't get traction control in an elantra which is important in rain and snow. You can't get stability control either which I value immensely. There is absolutely NO comparison. In the elantra you get what you pay for... boring basic transportation. Lastly, extremely POOR resale value, though that has improved marginally over the past few years.

P.S. I don't think the Elantra will be winning any drag races. It does top out at 120mph but the Prius is NOT a race car. Neither is the Elantra.

falconone · October 2005

I had a moonroof/sunroof in my previous cars. Never used it. Waste of money if ya ask me.

aaron_t · October 2005

And I can say the same about navigation that Prius has available as commuting, I know exactly where i'm going every day. I use moonroof a lot more. Different strokes, I guess.

1panky · October 2005

One thing I would be concerned about is reliability and resale value. With a small gasoline powered vehicle such as echo, it is a reliable vehicle and enjoys a decent aftermarket interest at trade-in time. As for a hybrid vehicle, it is still a wait and see on any resale value. From articles I have read on this subject and discussions with used auto dealer/wholesaler acquaintances, the news is not good. After "fanning" aside all the hybrid hype, it appears there is not presently a resale market for a hybrid with say the 60K on up mileage as would be my average trade-in. The question of how long the battery and related systems to this technology will hold-out over time in real-world conditions is a very big question. The public may voice their support of this technology today but, I will have to see how these vehicles "stand-up" in the resale marketplace. I will allow others to act as the "lamb" in this process on their dime and judge the ultimate results. By far In my opinion today, comparing real-world mileage between conventional and hybrid powered vehicles leaves me with no alternative but the conventional vehicle choice. For those who enjoy living in the aura of the utopian "green-life" regardless of cost; they can continue to convince themselves that the hybrid of today beats it's conventional counterpart. Today, for my money, the old proven technology of the conventional powered vehicle still reigns supreme for the foreseeable future. Maybe in ten year's time alternative powered vehicles will become comparable to the present proven technology in mechanical reliability, cost of ownership and resale value. When this happens, and I do believe it will over time, I can then join my old science teacher (who still wears socks with sandals in the summer and rummages through his neighbors trash for composting material) in owning an alternative powered vehicle. Ultimately, when all is said and done, only the pocketbook guru will decide this for me in the end!

falconone · October 2005

Once you use navigation you never want to be without it. Of course I know where I am going every day too. HOWEVER, I can't tell you how many times I had to detour because of traffic etc. Invaluable to me. I could also have stood up and stuck my head out of the moonroof to see an alternative. Sun/Moon roofs in Florida once open can lead to skin cancer. No thanks!

aaron_t · October 2005

I've used nav several times in vehicles. It was nice one time on a trip when I was stuck in traffic and found an alternate route. Not worth $2k to me. I have no use for it on my daily commuter. I already know a lot of alternate routes

. And those that I don't know, a compass can get me quickly to a road I do know.

falconone · October 2005

NAV is expensive but in the Prius it really does not work out to 2k. No one in the world knows every road. A NAVI has proved invaluable to me on numerous ocassions. I even have a portable one I bring on trips with me. It's saved me so many times I can't even count. My favorite feature in the Prius is the smart entry exit. NOW that I love. No fumbling for keys in the rain. Gotta love it!!!!!! Can't wait to finally own my own!!!! Ten weeks or so... YIPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

gagrice · October 2005

Not worth $2k to me

The NAV that Toyota/Lexus sells is inferior to other NAV units available. The top of the line Garmin sell for less than half. Has a bigger screen and is far more accurate. The biggest plus is you can carry it to any of your vehicles and not take the loss at trade-in time.

kdhspyder · October 2005

approximatly the same size as any other small compact car.

Surprisingly most cars are very similar in size. If you do a comparison here on Edmunds you will find that the Camcord is slightly larger than the Prius but the Passat is exactly the same size... but as the original poster stated so is the Elantra Hatch. But only the Elantra is classified as a compact.

You must drive a lot, using the EPA ratings you would have to drive over 32,000 miles to make up that difference

You are right on here. I drive 45000+ miles to work and for personal use every year for the last 25 yrs. But the Prius is much more comfortable has has much nicer features than any compact car other than a Lexus or Bimmer. For the money it's not even close for me.

kdhspyder

falconone · October 2005

I have a GARMIN quest portable. Great unit. The other GARMIN units like the 2620 are dangerous projectiles in the cabin of the vehicle. That's why I got rid of mine and got one that mounts to the inside of the windshield. MUCH safer. Advantage of a built in NAV is the ability to navigate when there is NO signal. You can't do that with the portables unless it's built in. Advantage: BUILT IN. 2k is NOT the cost in the Prius, but it is standard in the industry. The Prius NAV has some wonderful features not available on the GARMIN. I loved my 2620, just too dangerous.
An FYI... all data for the NAV is compiled by NAVTEQ. Same data resides in all the NAV units. The Acura/Honda has the best one in the business. The worse ones I've used are built into the German cars. Absolutely horrible and not intuitive. The worse one is in the Benz. Really sucks big time. I had one in my Mini and that was a POC too.

Can't wait to get my Prius!!!!!!

zodiac2004 · October 2005

The Scion Xa gets about 34 combined MPG. How much would I spend a week at 34MPG? And knowing that I'm driving a less equipped car?

C'mon Steve. You know that's not right.
With your hyper-miling techniques (adapted to a non-hybrid), I'm sure you can beat 50mpg with the Scion.

pjyoung · October 2005

I no longer live in a snow and ice area but when I did, ithought it was somewhat ironic that the cars most often stuck in the ditches or involve in crashe for goign to fast under the conditions, especially the glaze ice, were the 4-wheel drive vehicles.

You forgot that they are also the ones involved in wintertime "rollover accidents". Interesting that the Hummer supporter would declare that the Prius driver most likely "caused the accident". The way I see most Hummers driven around these parts is that the driver has a feeling of invinciblity and either follows too closely, drives faster than is safe for the conditions, and weaves in and out of traffic because they know the other drivers will fear their bulk.

falconone · October 2005

Good post. I definitely agree on that one. I guess that's why SUVs pay higher insurance premiums than folks driving hybrids.

midnightcowboy · October 2005

Falconone,

I think the Prius Nav's is one of the best along with Hondas. I also have a Garmin 2610 and Nav systems are very useful if you need them. Still being somewhat new to Houston I still use it occasionally.

The beanbag mount can be a projectile, but most portable NAVs also have a permanent type mount.

However, the worst NAV is the New Dodge Charger implemetation. It is not touch screen, only a rotary dial ( not even joy stick type) and the colors are white letters with a yellow background. But is has a hemi !

Someone said a NAV is not $2,000 but that seems to be the going rate for a good built-in DVD based one.

Enjoy you Prius when it gets here, what option package and color are you getting?

Cheers,

MidCow

P.S. - At least right now the resale of Prius, HCH, and Insight is very good, if you can even find them. Someone said Echo had good resale, but since Toyota has announce they are not going to make them anymore I wouldn't expect is to reamin good.

aaron_t · October 2005

My full-sized 4wd pickup has a lower insurance rate than any mid-sized sedan I've been quoted. It is not quite as low as our minivan, though.

Kirstie_H · October 2005

This is not the SUVs vs. Prius discussion. Thanks for trying to stay on-topic!

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

aaron_t · October 2005

Looking at the different Prius packages content and prices, I'd say $1500-2000 for NAV. Or, if someone really only wanted NAV, he is forced to spend $5k for it and get a bunch of stuff he may not care about. Each one's perception & values are different.

If I were to get a Prius, I'd like the AM package which is just under $24k MSRP. A Mazda3 5dr Grand Touring has about the same equipment + leather heated seats - Smartkey - lack of shifting for $4k savings at MSRP. I'm eligible for Mazda S-plan pricing which is about $18.5k. I will say that anyone interested in a Prius should buy in the first half of next year and take the $3100 tax credit.

Downside, money. Upfront and unknown long term costs w/ resale and battery life.

falconone · October 2005

Hi Midcow... I never wanted to permanently mount the 2610 because I didn't want to make any mods to the dash. One day I had to stop short and the NAV blasted towards the windshield. My passenger prevented a possible catastrophe. Check out the Quest. Great little unit and it fits in your shirt pocket. I also use the British lady voice. Do they have one with a Texan drawl?

I am getting either SuperWhite or Silver. I am getting the package with everything except the leather. I hate leather, but love the smell. Since I am open to color, my chances of an early Jan delivery are better. I am even open to their blue version. Oh..lastly... I know it may sound like a waste of time, but write a letter to Toyota and ask them for a 6 speed. See what they say! Take care....

falconone · October 2005

I've posted that suggestion numerous times. The Mazda 3 is an excellent platform to compare to the Prius. The backseat in the Mazda is sorely lacking, but it's not too important. Only thing keeping me back would be lack of stability control. I won't buy a car without it. I'd have to step up to the Volvo S40, then we're talking thousands more. Let's face it, the Mazda IS an S40 with a little less features. The Mazda gets HALF the mileage of the Prius on average. When you factor in the tax credit, the advantage slants towards the Prius. Battery life... NON ISSUE. 150k warranty for me (NY). Don't care at all. Good luck on what u decide.

misterme · October 2005

Thanks Zodiac2004.
No, I don't know if I could beat 50MPG in a Scion as it is drastically less equipped in efficiency equipment, but I do know that I make my personal goal almost every evening of 68MPG by the end of the day in my HCH.

Roll back the clock to when I was in the car buying market and knew nothing of driving for efficiency.
Personally, If I would have chose the Scion or Echo or Civic EX instead of the Hybrid I'd likely be doing upper teens to lower 20's MPG. Why? Because all other cars are....well...any other car and I'd have driven them accordingly.

Our Grand Caravan went from 16-17MPG to 21-26 as a direct result of what we learned in our hybrid car- another major benefit of our purchase. (Lessons learned lasts a lifetime)

larsb · October 2005

misterme's tanks are available online for review. There are many other drivers getting 52+ in the HCH. One driver is at 52.5 MPG lifetime after 71 tanks.

My current HCH tank is 56.0 after 560 miles, and I will get 700 miles out of my 13.2 gallon tank before the end of the tank. That's 20% over EPA.

There was the "HBO Documented" 109 MPG Prius tank a couple of months ago too.

That just goes to show you what these cars are capable of with drivers who learn the game.

Look at this page:

http://tinyurl.com/d3umt

falconone · October 2005

If you check out greenhybrid, that's where all the hypermilers post their accomplishments. It's not difficult.

misterme · October 2005

Thanks larsb, I forgot about the movie I made which shows road, traffic, conditions and the fuel consumption display!
Despite a strong blowing head-cross wind it still came out to +63MPG for the first of two segments of my daily 46 mile commute.
There are other people's achievement movies there as well.

aaron_t · October 2005

People have survived a hundred years w/ automobiles w/o VSC, and now it is necessary? If you value it, great! Not everyone does. I'd take it, even pay for it, maybe $300. But I would not exclude a vehicle purely because it does not have it. It isn't worth $20k-25k.

In my commuting of mostly secondary suburban streets and divided freeways, there would be little time a hybrid's engine would disable. I would get more like 40-45mpg comparing my driving style with other hybrid owners. That compares to an estimates 28 commuting in a Maz3 2.3. Half is a stretch. In some cases, sure. Not the average driver, nor mine. A quick spreadsheet for the numbers can provides estimated payoffs. I can still get that sunroof, leather, and manual tranny in a Maz3, further making my commute tolerable.

Battery life and resale are unknowns at this time for any new vehicle, especially hybrids. Toyota does in general make quality products, but that does not mean they are perfect nor can they predict the future. 7 years from now could be a whole different world. What was the situation 7 years ago? What technology will be the hype? No one knows.

I'm not in the market for any vehicle right now, not for another 18 months. I'm just providing s devil's advocate perspective for alternatives. Hybrids have way more hype than sales right now. A vast majority of car buyers and non-automotive journalists assume 50mpg is going to pay for itself vs. any other vehicle on the market for their situation.

larsb · October 2005

quote aaron_t-"A vast majority of car buyers and non-automotive journalists assume 50mpg is going to pay for itself vs. any other vehicle on the market for their situation."-end quote

You actually have that completely REVERSED for the non-automotive journalists.

In fact, about 95% of all Hybrid car stories (regardless of the source) continue to point out the "hybrid car premium" and almost all of those stories say how "hybrids are not worth it" or "hybrids do not make financial sense."

I have been reviewing these new stories almost every day for 15 months now, and to find ANY story which says "50mpg is going to pay for itself vs. any other vehicle on the market for their situation" is a VERY HARD thing to do.

That's a part of the problem for hybrids - the public keeps getting hammered long enough with "hybrids suck" and they are going to start believing that lie.

falconone · October 2005

People have also survived without seatbelts, ABS, airbags. Stability control has proven itself to SAVE lives. There are many studies that substantiate this claim. I see that in one of your posts you value time with your family. I suggest you read up on stability control. The life you save may be your own.

Lastly, I am NOT buying a Prius to save money. I'm buying it because I like the car. The mileage I get will be gravy.

Any downside to buying a hybrid?

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