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Any downside to buying a hybrid?
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Sorry I wasn't clear. Compared to the brakes in my mother in law's Ford (maker of Lincoln), the brakes will stop very quickly. The brakes in the Ford (maker of Lincoln) almost felt as thought they were an afterthought.
That takes us back to the most logical conclusion on this accident...The car that hit the prius was probably German (known for being unreliable) driven buy someone who bought into the whole drivers car thing and was going too fast they hit their brakes coming into a corner but they didn't work....
The Prius probably saved their live by stopping them and absorbing the energy of the hit....
Hmmmmmmm The Previas must have been pre-97 since that is when the Sienna came out....consumer Reports rates it's crash test scores as IMPRESSIVE.
you have mentioned, maybe a dozen times now, that you want to see long term real world results....apparently the 9 years the Prius has been on the market in Japan doesn't qualify as LONG TERM for you....I suppose it will be awhile before you even think about one of those new Hi-Tech Diesels..
What do you concider long term?....Jet planes have only been commerical for about 50 years now...Do you fly in jets? Do you own a cell phone yet? How about a computer? they are relatively new....do you post on a borrowed one?
Just curious.
That only makes me wonder what other cars you have driven. Anyways I have Lincoln (34) with mechanical brakes, anyone that rear ends me in that thing has to be sleeping at the wheel
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yeah and the first ones had a nasty habit of dropping out of the sky even though all the testing showed no problems with them.
Since more and more people are keeping cars for 150-200k or more miles I will wait until there is a sizable number of hybrids that have been on the road for that period and see what the long term experience is.
Is that to much to ask?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What is the source of that data? I question that as truth. Seems like with us buying upwards of 17 million vehicles in the USA that more and more people are trading cars IN for replacements rather than keeping them for the long haul.
Assume for a second your statement is true. That means that cars are being built BETTER in today's world, meaning they are lasting longer. If that trend is a fact, then HYBRIDS ALSO will last longer in today's world.
When it is proven in real world experiences then I would consider it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What kind of "real world" do you live in? Toyota has sold 400,000 hybrids worldwide. Are they dying like flies, or are they achieving a 94% re-buy rate? How about the stories of the 200,000 kilometer taxi in Canada? How about the HCH with 78,000 miles and a battery testing at 96% of original capacity? How about Priuses on the road for almost 9 years in Japan?
I'd say anyone "still waiting for Hybrids to become proven" is driving blind and not looking at the facts.
Yes over 16 million cars were sold in 2004, but there are 220,000,000 registered cars in the US. That means if all things are constant it would take 13 years of selling 16 million cars a year to replace the 220 million. This means that the average car is not being sold for scrap after 4 or 5 years. Now since the average driver is driving about 15k miles a year that would be almost 200k miles in 13 years.
Now of course not all those 220 million cars are driven 15k a year, some are a lot more, some are a lot less and while not all, maybe not even a majority, get the 150k+ range it is a strong indication that there is a sizable number that are getting very high numbers on the odometers.
This is reinforced by the fact that the it is estimated that the average age of a car in the US is nine years. That would put the average car getting over 125k miles. That means there have to be a large number of high mileage cars out there.
That plus the ever increasing number of people I see talking about the how many miles their cars have (either in real life on the internet or other media) leads me to strongly believe that there is an ever increasing number of people keeping cars longer and longer.
Now back to the hybrids, it is a still a relatively new technology, more complicated than a non hybrid. All I am saying is that I am waiting to see what happens when hybrids start getting above 150K miles on a regular basis.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Lets have this discussion 5 years down the road ok?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think with a satisfaction rate of 96%, there will be a lot of Priuses kept for a lot of miles.
About the five years thing - neither of us will believe in five years that we even were even required to have this discussion. Hybrids will be as common as ABS systems.
You obviously missed my point. My point in illustrating the 78,000 mile HCH was that the battery tested 96% percent of original charging capacity.
That extrapolates out to 450,000 miles before it even gets down to 75% capacity !!
We know Honda Civics as a whole are solid cars, capable of easily reaching 200,000 miles and more. The only concern with the Civic Hybrid is the longterm reliability of the battery. So a battery only losing 4% charge in 78,000 miles means that the battery is holding up VERY WELL and forecasts to hold that distinction for a lot more miles.
9 weeks for Zelda!!!
It doesn't get any better than this folks
You must have forgotten the Civic GX. Cleanest vehicle ever tested by the EPA.
C'mon, you know better than that. Batteries do not deteriorate in a linear fashion. That battery could have lost 4% in the last 4000 miles. It could get to 70% by 90k miles. It could have a cell go bad at any time. Batteries are going to be an issue after the warranty is up. What percentage do you have to lose before the auto maker will replace the battery? I have two Dell laptops. One is 6 years old and the battery is still great. My new one is less than 2 years old and the battery is good for less than 5 minutes. Both were treated the same. There is no way to know when a battery will die. You are at the mercy of the dealer on the warranty issue unless it craps out completely.
I don't believe Honda sells them anywhere but CA. So you are probably right. With Natural gas doubling in price they probably are not that great on economy. They are still the cleanest vehicle EPA has tested. That was the issue.
That would be a wise move on your part.
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Ok wait...How long till all the hybrids have 200,000plus miles on them in enough numbers to satisify you???
That should be in another 10-15 years ....by then the rest of us will be driving our Fuel cell cars...and you will have another 10-20 yr. wait for them...
The car you are currently driving must be REALLY OLD Technology.
1)Hybrids are a simple technology.
2) Since there are only about 280,000 people in the US that would mean there is close to one car per person....it indicates that people don't just REPLACE CARS..they ADD cars....
Lets see you take two different energy systems mated to an engine and make it so that depending of the situation and fuel/power considerations either one will cut out to make the vehicle more efficient is simple? I believe I read one place that a Prius's drive train has something like 40% more parts than the drive train of a non hybrid car and thats simple?
If you believe its simple please contact me as I have a wonderful deal for you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The subject in this discussion has nothing to do with the length of bathroom breaks, jetliners, or how German and American carmakers compare to Toyota.
These off topic posts are simply going to be removed.
Please remember to think about what discussions you are in BEFORE you go off on a tangent and we have to step in and try and herd the conversation back on track.
Lane Departure Warning
Laser speed control
CVT Tranny
These are just the tip of the iceberg!
I myself would have no problem buying a vehicle with new technology. The Mercedes laser speed control (latest version) will actually brake for you in stop and go traffic!!! Can you imagine... no throttle inut is needed other than your ability to steer. I'd have NO problem buying a car with that technology. This leads me to my conclusion. I am buying a hybrid because in my mind there is NO downside. I am convinced that this is reliable and safe technology. Anyone that wishes to wait on the sidelines is welcome to do so. Anyone that is speculating as to the longevity is just making assumptions. I'm willing to take that risk. Some aren't and that's fine.
Hmmm, I suppose that "NO downside" is a relative term. For me at least, I very much like a performance oriented car that can accelerate, brake and maneuver better than 90% of the cars on the road. Considering that the slowest of my last six cars was still able reach 60 in the high six to low seven second range, and even our two minivans can do it in the mid nine second range, I'd say that to me at least, there is a significant downside to a Hybrid that has acceleration numbers in the ten plus range. That and the skinny high mileage oriented tires that negatively impact handling and braking and you have the makings of a car that is, in my mind, highly likely to be incapable of attaining my minimum acceptable level of performance.
All of that being said, the potential for the high mileage is intriguing enough that I want to drive one and see for myself how well something like the Prius can perform. The only problem is that of the half dozen or so dealers that I called last week, none of them have any unsold Prius(es) in stock, and will not have any for quite some time. Hmmm, I'm thinking that the A3 is looking better all of the time. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
9 weeks for my OWN.
Laser speed control
CVT Tranny
The above description is my worst nightmare for any car! Passive insulated driving is as nightmarish as being in a zombie-like state!
For me such technologies would require a snooze mode button that will wake me up when the car reaches my destination in a accident-free manner.
My definiton of a "Gem of a Car"
A manual tranny
A gem of a potent engine with a light weight hybrid system that will not weigh down the car's handling dynamics (unfortunately all hybrid systems need to go on a weight watchers' diet)
The weight problem of hybrids are an issue for me! That is why I am considering a "agile and light" future turbodiesel!(BMW or Audi). With turbodiesels there is little performance/handling sacrifice in the name of fuel economy!
Pretty soon you won't be able to find a manual tranny in US cars.
I am confident that there will continue to be a niche demand for manual performance cars in the future! The last manufacturer of manual performance cars will earn very high monopoly profit margins! No manufacturer will want to give up such hefty profits and will be motivated to continue manufacturing future manual trannies in USA and Canada!
Yup, and I'll be one of those folks lining up to pay the premium so that I can keep stirring my own until the last possible moment. I'm still hoping that they'll have to pry the stick shift from my cold dead hand some day in the future, however, with the advent of fuel cell vehicles, I may have to religate such a ride to my "Weekender". ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Actually the tires on the '04/'05/'06 Prius are the same as those on a Corolla CE P185/65R15 nothing special about them nor are they high performance tires either. The Prius was never intended to be a high performance vehicle (0-60 just under 10sec ) you'll have to look into the Lexus line for high performance hybrids. However the new '07 Camry HSD in the spring will likely have the performance you're looking for with little or no 'hybrid premium'.. and Corolla/Civic fuel efficiency.
But these vehicles are not for everyone and one size doesnt fit all.
There are two types of Speed control...Laser and Radar...It is the Radar speed control that is used in Pre-collision safety features...They say Radar Cruse works better in Poor conditions Rain for example.
My 01 Lexus LS has Laser Cruse control...It is Awesome...The set the distance you want to keep behind the car infront of you..and the Max speed you want to go...then you just steer. It does automatically break and accelerate up to the max speed set....I usually set mine at 73 on the freeway if the car in from of me is going 69 my car will do 69 and maintain it's gap with the car in front...It the car in front pickes it up to 90 my car stays at 73...
Note: if it is slow stop and go traffic...under 35 mph....the Laser cruse doesn't work..
My understanding is that this feature will soon be available in more Toyota cars.
The Radar cruse will sense an accident coming tighten your seat belt and shoulder harness hit your breaks hard and do some other stuff that I don't remember as well as work as a neat cruse control...
I believe Mercedes was indeed the first to come out with this technology, Toyota (as always) tested it worked with it made it more reliable and then they started putting it in their cars...04 I think was the first Year for the Radar Cruse with the Pre- Collision.