Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Then of course there is the fact that some of us are (or might be soon) driving a car with some form of forced induction (supercharging, turbocharging or even both), the issue becomes even more poignant due to the exaggerated thermal dynamics that such engines routinely encounter, even on the way to the grocery store much less during a full-throttle freeway merge. So, for all folks driving things like blown 2.0T Passats, A3s, A4s, TTs, Allroads, Saab 93s and 95s, blown Volvos, as well as other miscellaneous cars with breathed on engines, the course of action is very simple: USE PREMIUM FUEL if you want the best possible economy. Period, full stop, the end.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Common sense says go with the TSX, my heart says Passat. Oh the choices! :confuse:
Personally if I were to spend that much time in a car I would make sure it’s the one I “want”. A five year marriage with the one you settled on could seem like an eternity
I personally did not do any real competitive comparison with TSX, but something tells me if equipped similarly, prices would be close. You probably can can "unloaded" Passat, as opposed to TSX, at least technically (after what I heard about Jetta, it would not surprise me if strippers were hard to find).
I think it boils down to your personality. If weekend in Vegas with gambling whole night is your dream vacation, Passat is your thing (don't even think about Acura). If any time stock marked goes down, your compulsion is to sell everything and run, go Acura (actually, go Camry, but you set those two as choices). Now, these are extremes and simplifications, you are probably are in between. Just think where is closer. What is stronger: good feeling about nice stuff (which TSX has as well) or big fear of another ignition coil problem (or something like that).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
5 years is forever these days. And, 18K miles is a no brainer in terms of leasing these days. Heck, buy 54K miles (3/yr) and if you are in love with the thing buy it at lease end (get the smart lease or smart buy or whatever they call their version of an open ended lease --- you cut your risk, you get some equity (although that is somewhat of an oxymoron with a car.))
If the Passat plucks the strings of your automotive heart -- what a shame to go with the lesser because it is possibly more reliable.
If we married thusly there would be no romance.
"Ah but she's a sturdy and reliable lass. . ." (or laddie, as the case may be.)
:shades:
The ignition coil issue has long since been resolved after the late 2002-early 2003 model year.
I have visited other VW forums on the web and always read the Honda vs Volkswagen skirmish. I get the impression these forums are made up of mostly young ___________ (enter your own word) and they spend too much time just trying to "punk each other out" by all the insults and name calling. They are mostly "tuners" (which until recently I thought were home stereo components) and perhaps fabricate stories just to make the other guy looks like a pin head for not buying their favorite brand car. You know the game. They claim brand-X is junk even though they have no experience with brand-X, or maybe not even brand -Y, or Z.
SO my advice? Ignore most stuff you hear/read. I think CR are paid tools. How do I figure? well, if you do a sweep of the news stand and see the reviews for these cars, you will see so many contradictory reviews of them. These people are not stupid. They know what to look for in a car. You even get contradictions from the same publication. How many times have I read a positive review on brand X just to see another reference to that car 6 months later calling it inferior? C'mon, gimmie a break. I just think this country is anti-VW. Why else would there be an agreement to keep their engines governed to a top speed of 130 mph, while any other manufacturer can set theirs at their own choosing? Why else would all the British press rave (and I mean with drooling action) about VW's reliability? Go to almost any British auto mag and see for yourself. They're online. Why do the Brits have VWs with the same engines getting considerably higher mpg ratings than ours here? Then most important, why does everyone else get so many options available with a manual gearbox? Yes, I know, I'm on that kick again. If you take America out of the picture, you will come to the conclusion that VW is one of the most popular brands on the road with a reliability history that would blow our minds. I wonder why?
So, Here's what you do: Decide which car has that certain "something" that trips your trigger. Sounds to me you enjoy the driving experience and/or want to enjoy your experience. I feel VW has that certain "feel" (contrary to one fellow on another forum who says VW has poor "driving dynamics" compared to anything else out there. See what I mean about uneducated opinions around some forums?) that excites the senses on the road. I don't even miss the "foo-foo gizmos" found in the other "near-luxury/family car" competition. the cockpit layout/driver position (ergonomics) of a VW are enough compensation to last a lifetime.
Done.
On the other hand, some of your complaints are not justified:
- "I just think this country is anti-VW. Why else would there be an agreement to keep their engines governed to a top speed of 130 mph, while any other manufacturer can set theirs at their own choosing?"
VWA could remove the governors if it chose to, just as any other manufacturer or importer can. Like most others it limits speed on all but exotics for two simple reasons - to avoid criticism for encouraging reckless speeding and, more to the point, to save money by equipping cars with H-rated tires rather than the much more costly ones required for speeds above 130 mph.
- "Why else would all the British press rave (and I mean with drooling action) about VW's reliability? Go to almost any British auto mag and see for yourself. They're online."
Whether we like it or not, VWs in general in NOT as reliable as most Japanese cars and many from Korea and North America. This does not mean they are unreliable, just not as reliable as most cars not built in Europe or Mexico.
Furthermore, most other European cars are less reliable statistically than VWs, including Merc and BMW and especially most British, French and Italian cars. Ever owned an Alpha, a Fiat or anything with Lucas electrics? That's why UK reviewers praise VW reliability.
- "Why do the Brits have VWs with the same engines getting considerably higher mpg ratings than ours here? "
Simple - Britain uses the Imperial measurement standard. Imperial pints are about 20 oz. vs 16 oz. in the USA. Quarts and gallons are likewise more than 20% greater in volume than US quarts and gallons.
- "Then most important, why does everyone else get so many options available with a manual gearbox?"
This is market driven, simply supply and demand based upon the demonstrated preferences of American car buyers, who prefer automatics. VW, BMW, SAAB. Volvo etc. all find that manuals are difficult to sell here. I wish that weren't the case, but it is.
All in all, there is no Grand Conspiracy here, just a few simple if unpleasant facts.
There is one point I want to make clear here. There are so many conspiracy theories out there about everything, from 9/11 on to fluoridation of water (remember our precious bodily fluids) and while I normally roll my eyes at such notions, I want to have conspiracy theories for a change. Please let me be a conspiracy theorist for a day. It almost feels fun. If not Volkswagens, then I'm going to go off on a JFK tangent.
1975 Scirocco (250,000 miles)
1987 Golf GT (624,000 miles)
1997 Jetta Trek (Just turned 149,000 miles)
2003 Wolfsburg Jetta (Just turned 56,000 miles)
2003 Passat GLS 1.8T (wife's car - Just turned 36,000 miles)
I wouldn't continue to drive these cars if they were junk. As long as you keep up with the maintenance, these cars will give you driving enjoyment for years - I'm living proof of that... :shades:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Every new generation of those cars I get excited. Unfortunately, further analysis always strips the enthusiasm: too expensive, too dicey in terms of reliability. Numbers don't lie and they say that VW is currently at the very bottom (and by far) of the industry with both initial and close to bottom with mid-term quality. It is closely followed by MB. Even the greatest car with best gadgets stops being a car when it sits a a shop.... Until they clear the bottom, I will do just that: get excited and not buy at the end...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
VW's drive like, uh, German cars -- this, for some of us, beats the heck out of the driving experience of cars from other countries.
Sticks and stones, I say, sticks and stones.
One point: 130MPH limiters ARE indeed due to the market. The US market doesn't like summer tires and winter tires. It seems to like all season tires.
Sure, UHP all season tires are offered by most of the biggie tire companies -- and although they are compromises, they do perform better than non-UPH all season tires and some will even outperform certain summer tires.
Audi, for instance, used to put UHP summer only tires on its cars. I believe VW did too. The result, generally, cars that handled great, had short tire life and "issues" in the winter.
Solution for the "different" American operational style: High Performance (not UHP) all season tires of increasingly lower profile but with: low noise and long tread life (relatively speaking.) These tires were not as sticky and the sidewalls flex a bit more, but they are at least 25,000 mile tires -- perhaps 35,000 mile tires or better. They are not unsafe, but they can be used pretty much year round. And, H rated means 130mph is OK.
We get what we ask for -- even if we say we want something different.
It will still come down to the wire with me, I do like how the TSX drives, but the Passat does pull at my heart strings.
Audi still does, at least on the Sport Package for the A3. Even so, said A3 is saddled with a 130 mph governor. The question is, "Should we really care?"
I have to admit that it annoyed me that my 530i SP had the same governor, however, given that I picked the car up in Germany I at least had a chance to push the car much higher, errr, would have if it hadn't had said limiter. Grrr. Once I got the car over here in the States I never even came close to 120 much less 130 so it was pretty much a moot point. Do I care that the potential A3 in my future might could well have a 130 mph limit? Nope, not in the least.
Best Regards,
Shipo
1. Open the owner's manual.
2. Check out those numbers, especially the ones pertaining to services.
3. Follow the instructions carefully.
4. Understand German engineering is different. It gets a little elaborate. I guess it has something to do with the German psych. I don't know. What ever it is, needs to be maintained by competent hands. When this is done, the requirements of what was supposed to have been read, understood and followed have been met and you may be in the same boat as I am. I refuse to trade a VW in on anything other than a VW. In the last 10 years, I have never lived closer that 80 miles to any VW dealership (I used to move alot) and have never had to visit them more than twice for anything other than factory service. The past 10 years! Three cars in a row. those two times? My window choked in my Old Jetta -- Out of service, but repaired free anyway because they know anything else would be wrong. The other time was my coils on the newer Jetta -- Done, free again under warranty, but is a recall anyway. Seems Toyota is having problems with their steering now. Gee, you going to label them at the bottom now? I would. The bottom of the appeal food chain maybe.
You can't get the true luxury package option in the 2.0T that you have available with the VW's 3.6 six-cylinder engine. No wood trim, powerseats, Homelink, etc. is available with the 2.0, as I understand it. The "power" in the seats of the 2.0 luxury package is the recline only, everything else is a handpump, like a barber's chair. The 2.0T engine is more than most people will need - it spools up fast. I don't need the 3.6's much higher cost, lower mileage and higher insurance bills. Why VW didn't make the same options available at the 2.0T level is a mystery to me. VW may have been trying to force consumers to take the higher engine, but they will lose additional business instead, from people like me that see the value in the 2.0 but are used to certain interior comforts.
I drove the Passat 2.0T and found it to be much faster and smoother than the TSX, but I can't option the 2.0T out with things like HomeLink, wood trim or even power seats that come standard with the TSX (I have beige leather w/wood trim). You have to get the Passat 3.6 to access those kind of amenities. If those things don't concern you, get the Passat - it's a better driving car than the TSX.
1.) The new VR6 3.6 Passat will be here in October.
2.) The 2.0T w/ the Manual Transmission will be here in November.
3.) There are no current plans for a TDI version of the new Passat.
4.) Most Passat option packages will be limited and predetermined based on current ownership trends. I.E.. No special orders at this time. (However, this may change).
5.) Discussion about the low customer satisfaction that has plagued VW for the last few years. (I'll finally put my 2 cents in here.. Can't sugarcoat this, they know there is a problem and hope to address it. I would have liked to hear a plan, a DEFINED plan of action to get the dealer networks and VWoA on right path. Only time will tell. )
6.) Upcoming new cars: More plans for "R" models outside the GTI. Concept C, now known as EOS should be here by late summer 06. Concept R however, was terminated.
Hope you find this stuff helpful.
1) It's reliable
2) The bugs have been worked out, Passat is brand new.
3) It's safe, the Passat will probably be safer, but no crash tests yet
4) Acura service is way better than VW.
5) A lot more luxury features for the price.
Both great cars no doubt, it doesn't make it any easier. :confuse:
I have test-driven three new Passats. All three had noticeable wind noise at highway speeds. Haven't driven the TSX so can't compare it but the Acura TL is substantially more quiet as regards wind noise than the Passat.
From what I read about VW/Audi the biggest chunk of reliability problems comes from widely defined electrical system (similar with MB). I know some VW owners and they all reported many so-called small troupbles with switches, wiring, etc. showing up within first couple of years of their ownership. Basically many people end up getting this wonderful machine and after couple of months they have to visit dealerships to fix CD player, power window switch, trip computer, Nav system, etc. (MB). Definitely a lot fewer of them get actually stranded somewhere in a rain, but it happens, too. No big deal, you may say - the problem is those boring no-soul Japanese or now even those lame domestics do not exhibit those things in numbers that are even close.
These problems cannot be prevented by good maintenance, they are embeded in the manufacturing process by poor quality of the supplied parts, (e.g. too fragile) or poorly assembled by a lazy and rude German union worker (Detroit teamsters are labor ants compared to those guys) who could not care less or worse - poorly qualified barely literate Mexican/Brazillian villager after two-month course and who doesn't know any better.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
PS-- I service the car religiously, so all of these problems are not because of neglect.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Well, in some way I consider myself a fan, just not a blind one, who pretend things are not there. I like a lot about VWs, even used to own one. The point is I am hoping and hoping that there will be a day I will run to a VW dealer and scream: "Give me one - I will pay you MSRP plus ADP, load all rustproofing and coating you want, just please, please sell me one because I want it so badly and can't wait anymore".
Then of course new Passat comes. I got really excited and was looking forward to it. Read couple of good reiews, saw some nice pictures. Impressive. Of course, the pricing came later. Although I expected a raise, I got stunned. When you add reliability record on top of it - I make a pass. In few years, when data comes in and confirms claimed improvements (everybody claims improvements - I need real data), I may come in again. Because I LIKE IT (except that hideus chrome on the nose, but that's a separate issue). I just don't like it enough, not today...
Now, if you want to throw me out for what you see as pooping the party, go ahead...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Members do not have to be a fan of any particular vehicle to express opinions in a discussion about that vehicle. We are all free to disregard any post we don't wish to read and should choose to do just that instead of posting personally directed comments.
Also, no one throws anyone out of here but me. :shades:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Ultimately, I will probably go ahead and get summer only UHP tires (Z or better rated.)
Tire/wheel changovers due to the season just don't fit here in the US -- which I find odd, since I grew up in central/western Ohio and every winter my dad used to put "snow tires" on the Chrysler.
It is so rare to see summer and winter tires here in SW Ohio that those who do use "winter tires" stand out by virtue of the fact that so few folks use them.
HUGE MISTAKE enough said.
DL
Another option has just become available. For 2006, Honda's Accord has a new model - the EX-V6 with a 6-speed manual ! It's got all the safety stuff, heated leather, 30 mpg highway - for under $28k. For those who haven't driven an Accord, expect a level of suppleness and smoothness that is very satisfying. That, with top-shelf reliability. I almost bought an LX with the 4-cyl and manual trans, and still might.
Sure wish I could fit into the EX - the dang sunroof is standard, and takes almost 2" out of the headroom!
Mileage definately starts to decrease above 70mph... though it is hard to maintain such a low speed with the Passat. The onboard computer can help getting better mileage. I tend to keep a distance from the car in front of me to avoid any breaking.
If I can keep my foot from stepping on the gas too hard and drive 65-70 I should be able to get 30mpg or even more. Traffic/city driving really decreases the mileage quickly.
It seems that VW has been trying for years to build a loyal group of owners, however, rather than doing that building a reliable product, they are spending money on marketing to create a “VW family”.
I owned 5 VWs so far, still have one, 2003 Passat. I used to tell people that VWs are good cars they might squeak or make other noises, but they will never leave you in the middle of the road.
Oh how wrong I was , new VWs are not build the same way. Sure their engine will last, is just all that other “stuff” that will fail.
In my case, I was already questioning VW quality, but I bought another one, because I needed a station wagon and I was not big fun of SUVs.
Anyway, my, or rather my wife’s Passat, left her stranded last November; fuel pump and computer failed. We had to tow, less that 2-year-old car with 20K on it, and it took VW 3 days to fix it. During those 3 days local dealership in Devon, PA acted like they were doing us a favor by even looking at the car. I was never offered a loaner, nor anybody ever said sorry for the inconvenience.
In the spring of this year I bought a new car for myself, and no it was not VW. I think I am done with them, reliability is one thing, and another is customer service, which “sucks”.
Last comment, is it just me or the new Jetta looks like Toyota Corolla?
can u share how much did u paid for this vehicle.and in which state.
thanks
vw
was just wondering if any one know where i can get a resonable warranty on a passat 06,i am talking about the extended warranty,any websites or vendors
plzz let me know!
these (two) salesmens walks off...WOW-- :surprise:
In a commission paid position you (2005es330) are the person I would like to have around and to think we want them (salesmen) to leave us alone while we look around.
To bad, so sad dealer is crying now...