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hope this helps
stu
The second or third time I took it in, I asked specifically for them to road force balance the wheels. After an all day affair , they told me they couldn't; that something was wrong with some of the wheels; that they had called Honda of America to sent technitians, and that they needed to keep the vehicle with them to figure it out. When I got the vehicle back 3-4 days later, they said they had to put a new wheel or something. Very strange. It took care of the problem only for a few weeks, then back again.
I think the issue is that balancing these PAX wheels is very difficult and very sensitive, with all the extra components like the pressure monitor sensors and the rubber donut, etc. So a slight problem makes it very noticible. I finally gave up trying to figure it out and tired of taking it to the dealers since I was getting nowhere. I will wait until the tires are worn down, then change out the whole wheel/tire set; as long as it will not cause a safety issue. I will buy a fifth wheel and put it in the "Lazy susan" slot, or in the back.
Well, if you do go the replacement wheel route, I hope it works out for you. I had the same issue with a Ford van years ago. Multiple dealers tried a variety of cures but they never could eliminate the vibration (and they flat refused to replace the aluminum wheels saying Ford would not pay). Ford ended up paying even more when they bought it back under Ohio's lemon law.
maybe michelin or the road force balancer manufacturer would treat your case as "special".
If you insist on gauging pressure after driving for awhile, you'll need to add in a fudge factor (e.g., if you want them to be 35 when cold, put in 40 when warmed up).
I have a 2006 Odyssey EX-L. I recently purchased brand new Honda steel wheels to mount snow tires on. The amount of weight that was needed to balance these new from the dealer wheels really shocked me. On one there was a weight about 6" long on the inside of the wheel and about 4" long on the outside of the wheel. Other wheels were similar. This could be related to the tires, but I did have Michelin X-Ice radials installed. Also, these vans have 235/65/R16 tires. Honda does not have an OEM size snow tire for this vehicle and Michelin does not make one. I went with 215/70/R16 tires.
Be glad you didn't go with the 235s, they would be more inclined to ride up in the snow and get stuck as compared to the narrower 215s that you have. Said another way, the 215s should be extremely capable in the white stuff as they are more inclined to knife through snow instead.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I had my 06 Touring in to the local dealer for an oil change on Friday and was told that they DID NOT have the equipment to replace/service my Pax tires. The service advisor told me that the dealer had no plans to buy the equipment (in spite of Honda's claims that ALL dealers would have the gear by 1/1/07).
My van has 23,5xx miles on it and the tires are starting to look pretty worn (not that the tread depth was all that great to start with). My family and I absolutely love our Ody, but if it's going to cost me $2500 to replace the rims/tires, I'll be trading it in soon!
Just venting, but any suggestions/opinions, etc. would be greatly appreciated!
I checked with my dealer a couple of weeks ago. Last fall they did not have the tire changing equipment and were only replacing the full wheel-tire assembly at $600 plus tax each. Now they have the equipment, but not the tires. They say that they can order them as needed.
The cost is $225 per tire, plus labor, plus tax on the tire cost. Total $1,075, plus tax, for a set of 4. About 1/2 the previous cost.
Regards, JEff
After posting my question earlier today, I decided to call Michelin customer service. They told me that the tires should be expected to wear for 40k miles with proper rotation. As "an act of good faith" they agreed to pro-rate the tires to 40k miles. In my case, I have close to 24k miles on mine (60% worn), so Michelin would pay up to 40% of the cost to replace. I can live with that because I have never had a tire last 40k miles anyway.
None of the Honda dealers in my area have the equipment/training and there is only one Michelin tire store within 40 miles that does. I hope I don't get a flat in the middle of the desert on a Friday evening! I say that because that very thing happened to me in my BMW 330 about 50 miles east of El Paso. Nobody within 400 miles had a pair of tires that would fit (performance package has weird sizes). I ended up riding the donut spare another 350 miles to Ft Worth and waiting until the next afternoon for tires to be shipped in. I can't imagine finding Pax tires in that situation!
The Sport Package tires on my 530i didn't even see 25,000 miles, although that wasn't unexpected. That said, I'm nearing 50,000 miles on a set of tires on one of our vans, and those tires don't even look half gone yet. I'm thinking that this particular set will easily see 90,000 miles with tread to spare.
Best Regards,
Shipo
We love our Odyssey (it's our third in spite of being minivan haters) but I wouldn't get the PAX system on another. We have two-year-old twins, so a van is virtually a requirement. However, as soon as they're mature/disciplined enough to board on their own, we'll be getting an SUV (probably Acadia or Outlook without PAX).
Yes! That, sir, is precisely my main beef with run-flat tires. Even more so with PAX. The Folks in France, Japan and Germany can't really comprehend how big the USA is and how uninhabited vasts swaths of this country can be. You can't go more than 10 kilometers in any of those other places without coming to another town.
And since BMW is one of the German Big 3, of course any podunk tire shop in Deutschland will have BMW rubber close at hand, run-flat or no. Not so here.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
By the way, it took 9 HOURS for them to put those 2 tires on yesterday! Granted, mine was their first PAX replacement job and they just completed their Michelin certification for the PAX system especially for me, but the "book time" states 45 minutes per tire. I figured maybe twice that time for their first-time job. Just a warning to all the other guinea pigs out there! It drives great though, but I had them measure and record the tread on the new and existing tires, and will have them re-measured at each oil change and tire rotation from this point on. I want it all documented in case they wear out in 14000 miles. I still plan to go after Michelin for complete reimbursement. 50% isn't enough for me. I didn't pay $40,000 for a vehicle only to have to replace 2 tires every year!
Needless to say, we're not running PAX tires on any of our cars. Both of our vans have a $400 set of Goodyear Assurance TripleTred tires mounted in place of the factory rubber.
"We love our Odyssey (it's our third in spite of being minivan haters) but I wouldn't get the PAX system on another. We have two-year-old twins, so a van is virtually a requirement. However, as soon as they're mature/disciplined enough to board on their own, we'll be getting an SUV (probably Acadia or Outlook without PAX)."
We got our first van when our kids were little. We got our second van when they were mid-sized. Contrary to our plans when we got our first van, we still have both of them and oh my do they come in handy with our son, who plays on as many as four different Soccer teams and a Baseball team in a year and our daughter who's into the whole ballet and modern dance thing. It always seems that we're either toting a bunch of kids and/or equipment and/or sets. Yeesh. I don't figure on being down to a single minivan until the oldest gets off to college (five more years), and we may never get back down to zero given how darned handy the things are to have around. :-/
Best Regards,
Shipo
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. The MSRP on my last car was $49,000, and right from the day I took delivery I expected to have to buy it a complete set of rubber every twelve to eighteen months. Go figure. That said, 14,000 miles for a set of All-Season tires for a family vehicle is absurd. I'm thinking that the worst we've ever gotten from the factory All-Season rubber on any car or van we've ever owned was something like 45,000 miles.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I can't emphasize how much we love the Odyssey, but I wouldn't recommend the Pax system to anybody living outside a major metro area. By the way, most of the tire suppliers that Michelin claims can do Pax replacements are not equipped, so call Michelin before running to one of the listed providers...
Monopolies stink. And Odyssey Touring owners have to deal with two: Michelin, and having to use a car dealership (who knows you're stuck) to buy and service tires.
Make your feelings known to Honda corporate.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
Here's how to do it from:
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=d25bf7b9a49629ab845675cecbf6d4e1&- threadid=36241&perpage=15&highlight=&pagenumber=12
I am now PAX free. I did it. Tire Rack would not do it for me. Honda would not do it for me. I had to do it. And I did. Here's how:
I bought 4 TPMS sensors at www.hondrparts.com from Tim Gates. Part # 06421-S3V-A04, for $35.82 each. I bought a small wheel for the spare tire (one of the donut spares like they use on the EX), part # 42700-SHJ-A51 for $43.92.
I then went to www.Tirerack.com , and bought a spare tire to go on the donut rim: Size T135/80MD-17 Goodyear Spare, for $108. I also bought AT Italia S5 wheels, size 17X7.5 for $99 each. I also bought Kumho Solus KH16 tires, size 235/60TR17 for $75 each.
These tires came mounted and balanced on the wheels. I took them to a local tire center, who dismounted the tires installed the TPMS sensors, remounted and balanced the wheels. They also mounted my donut spare tire on the rim and placed it in the van where the Lazy Susan used to be. It fit perfectly. The tire shop only charged me $30.00. I got lucky there.
The instructions for installation of the TPMS sensors is at https://hondacuraworld.hostasaurus....uminumwheel.pdf
So I am done and all works well. I am free of PAX.
I will be selling my 4 PAX wheels and my Lazy Susan. Any takers?
__________________
2005 Ody Touring
Taffeta White on Ivory Leather
One question: why not store your spare in the same place the spare is stored in the other Ody's and keep your Lazy Susan?
Just to clarify: I posted the "How To" from one of the OdyClub forums (www.OdyClub.Com). It was posted by member "jimmylee1000". It was such a good post I thought everyone here would find it helpful. From what I read on that forum, most people are spending about $1200 to become Pax Free--but they should easily break even when they need to change the tires for the first time.
Personally, im buying the spare wheel and tire now and will see if i can get a tpms guage in it. Once my Pax tires wear out Ill order the full set of non-pax wheels/tires.
Hope this helps.
I have purchased a 'doughnut' spare and mounting hardware for the empty spare-tire compartment, so that I don't get stuck somewhere out of range of a PAX supplier and can minimize the loss of life on the support structure if I have to wait while a supplier obtains a tire should I need one. But I think I will stick with the PAX system now that I can get replacements locally at a somewhat reasonable cost.
I have 32,000 miles on my tires now, and they were marginally effective in the snow last winter, but I think they will get to 40,000 before the tread is all the way down to the indicator bars. No matter what the mileage I will replace them before December.
Regards, JEff
I'm driving my 06 Ody Touring up to New England for Easter and I think I'll be running out looking for a spare too--just in case!
You're right, the all weather PAX tires are not much good in the snow. Fortunately, they now offer a snow PAX.
I'm at 28K and it appears the tires will last past 40K.
Add the excessive cost for tires, increased wear rate of the tires, and the lack of support when you need a tire replaced and there's only one solution for me: As soon as this set wears out Im replacing them with non-pax wheels.
In the mean time Ill buy a donut spare. Most likely ill have to waste some much-needed garage space and store the pax wheels when I buy new tires/wheels. Itll probably be a big selling point since I can provide a new owner with his choice of wheel type. Something HONDA in their wisdom did not give me.
2008 Honda OdysseyFor 08 the Odyssey is slated for a mid-model change. We've heard very few rumors except for the elimination of the PAX system which we find hard to believe. With dealers adding PAX tire changing hardware to their service departments we don't believe PAX will be going away but rather will spread to other models.
Although most of the sheet metal will remain unchanged you will most likely see Honda's standard list of mid-model changes which include headlight, taillight and bumper changes. Expect to see a few color changes as well as another trim level to finish out the last 2 years of the cycle.
If this comes to pass, then it will be safe to say:
PAX=TRX=Dead and buried
Best Regards,
Shipo
This is my third Ody, but no matter how much we love the van, it will be our last if Honda doesn't straighten out this PAX issue. If they're going to offer a wheel swap, they should get ahead of the class action suit by doing it now and doing it free. I'd gladly waive my right to sue if they replaced my PAX tires/wheels with a suitable substitute--but only before I have a Pax tire failure and get stuck out in East Bum#$%& without a replacement tire. Then, it will be too late...
class action lawsuit in California:
http://www.kabolaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1193550.html
http://www.sfmslaw.com/pages/cases.php?id=343
I hope the judge throws the book at those Michelin/Honda idiots.
They also quoted me $1200 to replace all 4 PAX tires.
I am now at 24,000 and projecting treadwear to 35,000 at this point on my 2007 Touring. My wear has been pretty even, since I keep my tires at around 37psi cold.
Overall happy with PAX but not happy with Honda's decision to discontinue them with the 2008 models. This can't help with resale, although it will be interesting how the class action is resolved. Maybe Honda will eventually pay to swap out my PAX for conventional tires if that is what I choose to do.
Perhaps we'll be able to buy a set of whatever wheel and tire is offered on the 2008 models, and with a little luck it will have a pressure-sensing system that is compatible. Shouldn't cost too much more than a single PAX replacement.
I've got 35,000 miles on my 2005 model, and they're approaching the wear markers but should get me through the summer.
Regards, JEff