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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    why is leather even a pre-requisite?

    heated cloth seats would be fine by me, and i wouldn't mind it if i had to manually adjust them. I don't 'THROW' my body about to do it either. have we really gotten this lazy?
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    You totally misunderstood my post shipmate. Go back and read it again.
    ;)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    www.toyota.co.jp/en also if you are using internet explorer you can see the english translation on the bottom of the task bar while you roll the mouse over the hyperlinks.
    :)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Not Corolla but Camry related.
    ;)
    Mackabee
    http://toyota.alsayeronline.com/English/toyota_models/aurion/gallery/interior_10.jpg
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    So who do we believe? Hanson or Danzer? Seems to me they're contradicting each other. I would have to go with Danzer. Plluuueeeze "all engineering resources"?? what a line of bull. The second largest manufacturer in the world is going to lead you to believe they had all their engineers assigned to the Corolla project. Yeah, right. And the Camry was engineered in Kentucky not in Japan as TMS USA would like you to believe.
    ;)
    Mackabee
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    C'mon Mackabee, you've seen the same internal docs that I have. The one single shortage Toyota has is highly qualified engineers. One of the reasons for the Isuzu 'investment' was to get access to their 1000 diesel engineers who were working on the Duramax.

    Toyota has repeatedly stated that lack of highly qualified engineering expertise is their main limitation now. It's certainly not money and it's certainly not sales volume.

    You read the article backwards. Because of the Camry launch most of the engineering was dedicated to the Camry launch. This took resources away from the Corolla launch. Combining that with running into the Tundra launch the good soldier Corolla just got pushed to the rear.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There was an interesting cover story on USA Today yesterday re the increase in size of vehicles over the past 20 years or so. Several examples were cited, e.g. Accord, but the article noted that Toyota was perhaps the worst offender in upsizing its cars. "It's what our customers want" is the (paraphrased) reason. The RAV4 and xB were mentioned as examples. I am hoping that the 2009 Corolla doesn't follow Toyota's habit in significantly increasing the size and weight of its vehicles with each new generation. The size of the car is just fine. If they need to bump the weight a bit for better side crash protection, so be it. But I hope they hold the line otherwise.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    That is interesting. As far as the NA market is concerned, I agree with USA Today's assessment. In terms of the relative size increase, Toyota must be the champ. But Toyota typically does not do this in other markets, such as the home market in Japan or in Europe. And considering the super-fine tuning of their market radar system that is envy of the industry, Toyota is probably not lying when they say that this is what the (American) customers want.

    With RAV4 it is too late, but I am certainly hoping that Subaru will not follow suite with the 2009 Forester. That would be very bad.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    The cars keep getting bigger so we can fit our big fat butts in them. ;) The Japanese are small by comparison to Americans. Europeans just pay so much for gas that they stick with the little cars but the big ones will probably make it there eventually.
    Mackabee
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    It won't get bigger. This is the midpoint of this platform's life. The current Gen and next year's model are much bigger than before, in fact it's almost as big as my 1989 Camry. There's the increase in size
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I am very confused by your reply. :confuse:

    How can this be the midpoint of the platform's life when the car will be redesigned for next year?

    I hope you are right that the 2009 Corolla won't get bigger. But I am not very hopeful, based on history: each Corolla has been bigger than the previous one; each Camry has been bigger; Yaris is bigger than ECHO; each Tundra is bigger; each RAV4 is bigger; each Highlander is bigger... there is a definite pattern here.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The current Camry is no longer than the outgoing version, but it IS shorter, and slightly wider, with a longer wheelbase and reduced overhangs. Bigger, though, it is not.

    Interior room is up fractionally, weight up marginally, trunk size down, and crash protection well improved, earning a 'Good' structure rating from IIHS in side impact, matched only by a few competitors (Passat, Legacy, Galant).

    I expect the Corolla to follow suit.

    Whatever the case, we'll find out in a few months, with Toyo announcing it will debut the '09 at SEMA.

    ~alpha
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Future Toyotas to be sent to SEMA :surprise:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/17/sema-preview-toyota-to-unveil-2009-corolla-heavy-duty-tundra-a/

    DrFill
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Toyota's platforms have approximately a 10 yr cycle. This platform is now beginning it's 6th year ( midpoint ). The Camry Gen's 2 & 3 were the same platform; the Gen 4 and 5 are the same platform.

    The Highlander is in reality the Lexus 300 which first came out in 1999. That platform ended it's 10 yr life this year.

    10 yrs is not carved in stone but it's a good yard stick.
  • cubssoxscubssoxs Member Posts: 139
    SEMA is not until late october/early november. Well at least we are no longer playing the guessing game anymore. We have an actual date when the corolla will be revealed.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Not like Ford, with the Ranger and Focus, which are hanging on the vine.

    DrFill
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    2006 Camry: 3108 lbs., 189.2 in. long, 70.7 in. wide
    2007 Camry: 3285 lbs., 189.2 in. long, 71.7 in. wide
    (Source: multiple, including Motor Trend)

    Looks to me like the 2007 Camry is bigger than the previous generation car. They are the same length, but the 2007 is wider and heavier.

    Yes, I expect the 2009 Corolla will follow suit: bigger and heavier. Hopefully it will also improve to Good on the IIHS side impact test.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    OK, I knew the Camry had a long platform life but was not aware the 2009 Corolla would be based on the same platform as the current car. It's amazing to me how Toyota gets away with reusing the same platform on a car for 10-11 years while other automakers redesign the platform every 5 years or so. Ford at least seems to have picked up on this strategy by staying with the same platform for the Focus for quite a while--although they get dinged for it, even though dynamically I think it's a superior platform to the Corolla's.

    Hey, did you see in the SEMA announcement the note about a Corolla coupe/hatchback? It's not clear if they meant a coupe that is a hatchback, or a coupe and a hatchback, or if they aren't sure which it will be (i.e. is it just a replacement for the Matrix?) It would be good to see a Corolla coupe again, and a hatchback that is a true Corolla 5-door hatch and not a totally different body style ala the Matrix.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The Mazda3 is on the Volvo S40 platform, as of 2004. Why the Focus didn't get onboard is anyones's guess.

    The Focus is universally panned, against it's superior cousin. Having driven both a bit, that is pretty clear.

    DrFill
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Alpha beat you to the punch doc.
    :shades:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The big volume items, Camry/ES, Corolla, 4Runner/GX, Highlander/RX, and soon the Prius all run about 10 yrs on the same base. At about 5 years the sheet metal is changed significantly. At 3 yrs and at 8 yrs there is a minor MCE in styling and content.

    In parallel the powertrains also run on about a 10 year cycle but they often overlap the platform updates by about 50%.

    As an example, the Camry used the 2.2L through all the Gens 2 and 3 but went to the 2.4L for Gens 4 and 5. However the 3.0L/3.3L V6 overlapped Gens 3 and 4 and was new for Gen 5.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yep, universally panned. Too bad for the Corolla it's generally considered no better than or even inferior to the Focus.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/08/earlyshow/living/supersavers/main604717.shtml

    Yep, definitely time for a new Corolla!
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Buyers have been very kind to the Ford, even after it's atrocious 2000 year.

    Having sold a Focus or two, I know it is positioned as some sort of Sports sedan. It is well behind cars like the Mazda3 in that regard. And it won't get better in the 2008 facelift.

    Toyota wants the Corolla to be well-built, likeable, and efficient. That's it.

    The people approve.

    Look at it this way. This Corolla is going out with a bang! :)

    DrFill
  • cubssoxscubssoxs Member Posts: 139
    I believe Toyota should come out with a two door coupe which could compete against the two door civic.

    But who knows really what toyota is going to do.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Semantics. Heavier to me does not equal bigger, as weight has nothing to do with volume. You fail to point out that the '06 Camry was half an inch taller than the '07. For all intents and purposes, the car is almost exactly the same volume, and cannot be classified in the same grouping of other Toyota redesigns - such as RAV and Highlander, for example.

    I agree the next Corolla will likely be heavier, but given the current size of the Camry in relation to the Avalon, I doubt it will grow - in terms of exterior volume -very much if at all.

    As noted, time will tell, SEMA will be here before we know it! The h/b took me by surprise, and I'm hoping this is a separate offering from the Blade nee Matrix.

    Toyota managed to make the new Camry 4 cylinder quicker and of the same efficiency as the outgoing model, and V6 MUCH quicker and MORE fuel efficient than the outgoing model, and I hope the Corolla follows suit. (This despite the increased weight).

    (Source, Consumer Reports for both acceleration and OVERALL MPG Gen 5 vs. Gen 6).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    OK. Next time I see a 250 pound guy next to a 160 pound guy of the same height, I'll try to think to myself, "Oh, look, that guy has a greater volume than the other guy!" In the past, I might have thought, "Oh, look, that guy is bigger than the other guy!" ;)

    Actually, the 2007 Camry has LESS interior volume than the 2006 Camry! I sure hope THAT is a formula that Toyota does not repeat with the 2009 Corolla: wider, porkier, but less interior room. Hopefully they will instead follow the formula Hyundai used on the 2007 Elantra: about the same length and weight, and the same power, but better fuel economy, lower emissions, a bigger interior, and more standard safety features.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    We all know that a 250 lb guy next to a 160 lb guy wouldn't be just 1 inch wider! Seriously though, volume is length, width, and height, and overall interior volume for the '07 Camry isn't down noticeably; overall, I believe 2 or so cubic feet. (And I'm sure the width increase is something of a factor in the Camry's exemplary crash ratings.)

    The formula Hyundai used on the Elantra, eh? Well, ok, I'm pretty sure the Corolla is already ULEV-II, which is pretty decent, but yes, PZEV would be fantastic. And indeed, more standard safety features, but as long as they translate into something (and we can hope the Elantra's do, as compared to the Accent's scores, for example). I just hope that the Corolla doesn't follow the Elantra's sales formula - a 6% decrease YTD through June, despite being a brand new model, in a segment that is growing due to increased fuel costs. (The Sentra has been a very sad story as well.)
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Couldn't have said it better myself. ;)

    Toyota needs lessons from Hyundai like BMW needs Lincoln's help making a suspension.

    Regarding the Corolla 2-door, it's too racy for a Corolla. It sounds like a good idea, but so did the Solara.

    DrFill
  • rcinmdrcinmd Member Posts: 139
    A couple weeks ago at a local restaurant a car caught my eye while I was parking.

    It was a four door hatch, a virtual clone of the Kia C'eed, forthcoming Hyundai i30, 08 Subaru Imprezza, etc. The car was a Toyota Corolla Prima I believe, with temp tags and a German license plate frame. Turned out it was being driven by someone from the German embassy. I did not have the opportunity to talk to them about it.

    Whether or not that car reflects our next Corolla, I'm not sure. I do know that what has been sold as the Corolla overseas has been very different from ours. But the size and configuration of this one would make perfect sense as a replacement for what we have now.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The decrease in interior room on the 2007 Camry is less than 1 cu. foot, but it's a decrease in a larger car.

    If the 2009 Corolla's MSRP is increased as much as the 2007 Elantra's MSRP was increased, and at the same time incentives are cut back, and at the same time Toyota cuts back on the number of Corollas available to sell, then I think it's quite possible we'll see a sales decrease for the new Corolla.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Given the direction fuel is going, I seriously expect $5-$8 / gallon fuel within 5 yrs, Toyota better be planning a huge increase in Corolla sales. Hybridization of the entire line is the midterm goal to satisfy demand and the probable new CAFE legislation by 2020. But if governmental estimates are accurate ( demand for petroleum products grows as supply and processing capacity remain the same or decline ) then the switch to smaller vehicles will be faster than now even.

    Oklahoma landrush comes to mind. Any good well-respected model should flourish; Corolla, Civic, Focus, Elantra, Mazda3, Cobalt (?), 'Hello, Chrysler? There is a probable surge in demand for smallish fuel efficient vehicles. Did you want to participate?'
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Sales would have to go down, wouldn't they? :confuse:

    DrFill
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    didn't realize toyo does what they do with keeping a platform alive for around ten years!

    the new corolla doesn't seem that great anymore; so i'm assuming they will be keeping the torsion beam rear suspension?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    It's one reason for hugely profitable vehicles. The development costs are done once then amortized over say 3-5 years. After that the Fixed Cost development cost is just additonal profit, or as in the cases of the Corolla and Prius now, flexibility to lower prices ( incentives ) to increase volume.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Exactly! Which is why I am eager to see Toyota keep the Corolla the small, fuel-efficient car as it is now, rather than some bloated thing like the new xB.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, I agree that if Toyota combined a large price increase, reduced incentives, and reduced inventory when the 2009 Corolla is introduced, sales will go down. Yet some people seem surprised when the same outcome happens for a different car. :confuse:

    I think it's likely incentives will be cut at first--happens to nearly all fresh models. Price increase? Highly likely if the car has more feature content, e.g. safety features. Reduced inventory? Not an issue for Toyota, is it?
  • akiotoyodaakiotoyoda Member Posts: 8
    No, the new corolla will have a new platform, due to increased safety standards for future vehicles. The new model's platform will have similar elements to the current rav4 of which it has always been based. Wheelbase/length/height will be around the same but width will increase about 2 1/2" and lower ground clearance to make it look more proportional then the out going model. Transmissions will probably be a 6 speed manual based on the xrs but different gear ratio or Super CVT-i to optimize fuel economy.
  • akiotoyodaakiotoyoda Member Posts: 8
    The current Corolla has been selling extremely well even better than when it was introduced. So I don't see what the problem is. Toyota doesn't like to put incentives but rather give you more features. Still the price is very competitive with the other offerings. Toyota understands that as gas continues to rise, people would want something more fuel efficient and the corolla gives you that and if they give you more interior space...Why not?

    I don't know why some of you are so negative bout the Corolla... Have u even driven one before? The current one's ride is quite competent, comfortable and it doesn't roll or plow either. Isn't that what people want?
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    If the Corolla gained any more than 3 inches in length, or width. Or more than $500 in base MSRP.

    What WILL happen is you will see Corollas passing $20k, but not go into Mazda3/Jetta territory. :(

    There are different segments of the compact car market.

    Civic is basically a Corolla, but it sells to much younger buyers. Coupes and Si models will sell to that market. That's why Corolla will probably never get a 2-door, because that is Honda's market. They market to the sporting driver. Toyota has no heritage in that class. To steep a hill to climb.

    Parents want Corollas for their kids, if they are buying them a first car. The kids want a Civic more. Having seen it firsthand, parents get nostalgic about Corolla, and know a friend who sings the praises of their Corolla, and the keep up with The Joneses. :blush:

    I think a graduate who buys their first car will get a Civic. But a student is more likely to have a Corolla.

    Or a used Civic.

    Redesignig a compact car is about knowing your place in the market.

    Hyundai doesn't know it's place, or wants to change places, and that's where the problems come in. The last Elantra was a good $5 cigar, and now we have Limiteds and stuff their buyer doesn't want.

    No Elantra should pass $17k. Period. Know your market.

    Civic and Corolla are good cars, but they are just better at knowing and reaching a targeted market.

    Every battle is won before it is ever fought. ;)

    DrFill
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "That's why Corolla will probably never get a 2-door, because that is Honda's market. They market to the sporting driver. Toyota has no heritage in that class."

    Doc, you're probably too young to remember or weren't born yet. Ever heard of the 1985 Corolla GT-S 2 door coupe? Around $8000.00 and more fun than a Honda!
    :shades:
    Mackabee
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Obviously, it didn't do enough to join the 1988 Corolla redesign.

    It wasn't any beauty queen, either. I used to see them once in a while. Definitely tried to enter the CRx market.

    Apparently, it didn't do too good. :sick:

    Supra was a phenomenal ride too. Not seeing those anymore either.

    People don't buy sporting Toyotas. Some things will never change. :(

    DrFill
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    No Elantra should pass $17k. Period. Know your market.

    A car with a mid-sized interior, heated leather seats, moonroof, deluxe sound system with XM, 16" alloys, ABS, six airbags, 4 wheel discs, heated power mirrors etc. etc. shouldn't list for much more than a Yaris that has much less feature content? Maybe you should stick to what you know.

    P.S. Actually, you can get an Elantra equipped like that for about $17k (or less) + T&L. But not a Corolla.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I have driven several current-gen Corollas (mostly as rentals, and one test drive--see below). I've owned two (earlier gen) Corollas. When the 2003 Corolla debuted, I was quite excited because it looked like a great small car. The feeling lasted until I test-drove one. The driving position is very uncomfortable for many people--inlcuding me. (And I will not debate this fact here, since it's well documented in a number of professional reviews available on the Web.) So I was very disappointed. I have high hopes that this flaw will be fixed in the 2009 Corolla, and then I can consider it for my next new car. I want something that's small outside but roomy inside, fuel efficient, comfortable, reliable, decent-looking, safe, and a good value for long-term ownership. If the 2009 Corolla doesn't fit that description, I am ready to turn to other alternatives.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I don't know much, but I do know this. I know Elantra has left it's market, and the market has spoken.

    Really, Elantra is in the EXACT same market as the Corolla, except they attack it from angles.

    The last Elantra was successful because it was a great value, but to a price point. If you wanted a $15k car, everybody said look at Elantra. Now you can't do that. The car has changed. The mission has changed. :(

    You said it yourself. Midsized car. Nobody cares if it is now in the midsized class! Get rid of the bells and whistles that Hyundai can't sell, and sell it against the Corolla as a value. You point of no return is $16k.

    Corolla knows it's market better than anyone. It does exactly what is expected. People don't go to Toyota to buy a $17-18 Corolla. They just don't. I know from experience. Corolla is a $16k car.

    Hyundai has changed Elantra's mission, and it's just like changing the time slot of a good, fledgling show. Hyundai has killed all the momentum the old Elantra developed, by Changing the idea of the car. It's not a car for all people. It can't fight Corolla at $15k and Jetta at $18k.

    It's a Hyundai! It's about time Hyundai stuck to what it knows. :surprise:

    And when you find out what that is, let me know, because I'm drawing a complete blank! :P

    DrFill
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Nobody cares if it is now in the midsized class!

    Nobody cares if they can by a car that is compact on the outside but has the interior room of a mid-sized car, at the price of some sub-compacts?? That is some great sales-ese, drfill. But wrong. Read the reviews. The roomy interior of the Elantra is universally praised.

    But rather than more competitor-bashing, let's talk about the 2009 Corolla. I'd love it if it had a mid-sized interior but a compact exterior, like the Elantra. I'd love it if it were priced like an Elantra--$13.5k-14.5k depending on locale, before negotiating, with full power, ABS, 6 airbags, 6-speaker stereo with satellite radio, etc. I'd love it if Toyota increased its warranty (fat chance there). I'd love a comfortable driving position. Other cars in the Corolla's class offer all of this and more. Soon we'll see how Toyota has responded.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The market likes it, but it is behind the competition in power, safety features, and the driving position needs work.

    The trunk and back seat are pretty good already. The car doesn't need to get much bigger. The rear end of the car is fine. Materials are very good, especially after you sit in the Yaris, you notice a difference. And obviously economy isn't an issue.

    Nobody is asking the Corolla to become some sex symbol either. So things aren't that bad. ;)

    DrFill
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    Toyota/Corolla loyalists will continue to come with evolutionary updates, but what will it take to convince others to buy a Corolla? That's the question Toyota needs to ask. This delayed introduction of the new model puts more pressure on Toyota to "hit a homerun".

    What would it take for Corolla to be deemed "best in class" by both the media and consumers?

    My guesses:

    1. Eliminate the silly shortcomings (like the awkward driving position) that are easy to fix.

    2. Offer more body styles (coupe, hatchback, wagon, sport).

    3. More power while maintaining economy.

    4. More room (Americans aren't getting smaller).

    5. More features and options.

    6. Better handling and sportier feel.

    7. Keep the price in line with the best of the competition.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Can't think of a time when they were, except in sales.

    The main flaws are driving position, safety features, and upgrade power. ;)

    I also expect telescopic steering, maybe a power seat on the LE. I wouldn't expect Smart Key.

    Everything else is for niche makers to cover.

    DrFill
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    As they say, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". The car sold very well. Why it didn't continue in the stable is beyond me. Toyota Motor Sales USA does things sometimes that don't make sense to us. I guess that's why we are on the sales floor and not in the boardroom.
    ;)
    Mackabee
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    My '07 rental had mushy brakes just like our previous 4 Toyota products and that's a shame. What can they do to get the brakes to have a more linear and confident feel? After test driving one the day before I bought my '06 Civic, the brake issue knocked the Corolla off my short list.

    The Sandman :)
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