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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    What's wrong with the Corolla's power? It's already one of the quickest cars in its class. It's got enough power for its mission in life. Now, if they fatten up the new Corolla, then it will need more power just to maintain status quo. But more power for power's sake it doesn't need. Focus any engine tweaks on better fuel economy if anything--that will sell LOTS of cars, and will differentiate the Corolla in its class. Let the other guys duke it out in the power game.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Maybe adding 4-wheel discs like some other cars in the class have would help?
  • cubssoxscubssoxs Member Posts: 139
    All compact cars seem that they are getting bigger. But now alot of car makers are coming out with more subcompact models. For example, Toyota has the Yaris, Nissan has the Versa, Honda has the Fit.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The Civic has 140HP.

    The revised Toyota 1.8 (see xD) offers 126HP (at this time), but will be geared more for economy in the Corolla.

    Corolla doesn't sell on HP, like Camry. But the going rate in this class is 140-160HP for the BASE engine. Also considering the Civic is at 32/40 (2007) in economy, with 18 more HP, Toyota will get the engines up to date.

    I think Honda going to 140HP on even the DX Civic caught Toyota off-guard, while maintaining high economy. :surprise:

    Also consider the 2.0 engine will power the Toyota Blade (Matrix) replacement, and the Mazda3 has been benchmarked (widely reported) for that vehicle, and the 3 goes over 150HP, a power increase is likely.

    My guess is the 1.8 goes to 130HP, EPA is 29/39, which should give it a slight lead over the 2008 Civic numbers.
    It could gain that 1-2 MPG with a CVT or 5-speed, and Dual VVTi.

    Word of the 2.0 Valvematic complicates possibilities.

    Toyota knows it's compact vehicles sell on economy more than power, but the Blade would definitely become more competitive with the 2.0. And a 130HP Corolla is not a long-term, solution given the competitive market it competes in.

    But Toyota history doesn't favor two engines for the Corolla, as this cuts profit margins in building more model/trim variations for the car, and with the successful formula for the current car.

    Blade may only get the 2.0, and use it as a step-up vehicle from the Corolla.

    The slightly upgraded 1.8 could be a hold-over engine until the 2.0 can be fully implemented next year. It would probably take 12-18 months to have enough 2.0 for all vehicles. The xD and Corolla maybe all 2.0 by the 2010 model year. :confuse:

    It would make sense for Toyota to use one engine in two compact vehicles (xD and Yaris), and the other in two (Corolla and Blade).

    OR Toyota can add the 2.0 to the xB, without losing much power, but gaining economy (and going to a 5-speed tranny or CVT for 2010)?

    I'm rambling with speculation, I know. :blush:

    DrFill
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    As it stands today Civic is my pick, unless saving money is important then I'd settle for a Corolla. Both have good local dealerships, which in this area leaves Mazda 3out of the picture. :cry:

    IME Civic is the overall "best in class" with Mazda 3 being the runner-up, but more sporty, "grown-up feel" choice. As I already have a Toyota to service, I'd rather stay with Scion/Toyota.

    Currently (with incentive/rebate) Corolla is about $2000 cheaper than Civic, which is significant in this price range. In fact TMV of Corolla is roughly the same or higher than Yaris!? With less features, less power, lower price, quirks, and older design Corolla isn't really competative with Civic.

    I don't see how Toyota could release a new Corolla that is inferior to Civic yet higher priced higher. Yet I don't see Toyota pricing the new Corolla close to Yaris either. So the squeeze is on Toyota to produce something at least on par with Civic.

    But consider that as the current Civic version ages, the deals street prices should soften a bit. Which is why I see the pressure being on Toyota even more to produce a "best in class" Corolla (that will no doubt have "stiff" street pricing the first year or two).
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Doc - extremely slight correction, but since you're very into the numbers; the xD with Dual VVTi is rated at:

    128hp @ 6000 (not 126)
    125 foot pounds @ 4400
    EPA rating: 27/33

    All numbers most current EPA ratings standards.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I can give you 6 reasons to buy 2008 Corolla over a Civic:

    1. Lower prices/incentives
    2. Bigger back seat
    3. Larger trunk
    4. Split-folding rear seats on all models(Have to get a Civic EX)
    5. Trac and VSC is available (Hard to find, but I've seen them)
    6. Conventional Dash design (Civic's is a deal-breaker for some drivers)

    The Corolla is more competitive than you think. I have, personally, brought many Corolla owners into the fold comparing the two. ;)

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I was referencing only the Corolla's numbers. Since I didn't see a big difference, I didn't bother to make a distinction. I did know of the 128HP. I actually wrote 128 first, than edited to the lower number.

    It would've killed my flow (I was rollin'!) to put two different sets of numbers out thur. :blush:

    DrFill
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    The Civic is not at 32/40 as you say. The Corolla has about the same mpg as a Civic despite being an older engine, but the Civic has more power.
    I think mpg is more important than power in a Corolla. If the Corolla can get better mileage than the Civic with around the same or even lower HP than the Civic, it will be more important than being faster than a Civic or exactly matching HP with a Civic.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    So excuse my typo. The Corolla (2007) was 32/41 or 30/38 (man/auto). They offer virtually the same economy, but the Civic has 14HP more.

    Corolla is not just lower on steam than Civic, but it's lower vs all competitors. That can be a problem to address with a redesign. Staying at the bottom doesn't sound like a plan to me. Toyota's Dual VVTi can add power AND economy. ;)

    DrFill
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The point is, the Corolla can get by just fine on 126 hp vs. Civic since Corolla is much lighter than the Civic. As long as the Corolla's weight stays down, no more power is needed. If it bulks up, then power will need to increase a bit to maintain status quo.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The Corolla will gain 150-200 lbs., with adding safety features and upgraded crash protection.

    And it will make a more competitive car, on paper. Fortunately, Corolla has already has the people behind it. :)

    DrFill
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    Doc,

    I have a Sienna for hauling, have never used the fold down seats, let alone split fold in my 626 in 6 years.

    The Corolla back seat is 2 inches wider, but has 1 inch less leg room (Consumers Report). I'd call it a wash in terms of back seat room.

    Dash design is probably an individual thing, most people learn to adapt to such (like center dash on Yaris) quickly (Edmunds owner comments).

    When similarly equipped with additional air bags, ABS, VSC, and mats the price difference between Corolla LE and Civic LX (after incentives/rebates) is only $500 (Edmunds TMV), yet Corolla lacks remote entry. And Civic upgrades to 5A from 4A, higher owner satisfaction (Consumer Report), shorter/less mushy braking (Consumer Report/above comments), and more comfortable driving position (well documented).

    I'm eager to see what Toyota can do with the new Corolla, after six year its losing its grip on the competition.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    quality, resale, economy, are a wash with the two, so the only real differences are dynamic. Corolla doesn't have an issue with staisfaction, since sales are rising faster than Civic's.

    The Civic has a clear powertrain advantage, but is about 150lbs heavier.

    The Corolla and Civic are seperated more by mission than anything else. The Civic is sporty and more youthful, aggressive. The Corolla is softer, quieter, more conservative and genteel.

    DrFill
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    The LE has standard keyless remote. All this talk about horsepower is nonsense. Torque is what really matters. The two are pretty much equal in torque. The Corolla had better torque numbers until Honda went with the 1.8L then their torque numbers went up.
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Year to date sales (June 2007) of Corolla are 202,221 as compared to 197,303 in June of 2006. You would think that a car in its last year of the current designe would be down but that's not the case. What's the Civic's year to date sales? ;)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Year to date Civic sales (June 2007) 173,800, with hybrids 190,941. Sales up to June of 2006: 165,056, with hybrids 180,801.
    :shades:
    Mackabee
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I am sure $3+ a gallon gas and 40 mpg has something to do with that. ;)
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I drive a rental Corolla and I found it had enough power as is. The engine needs to be replaced because it sounds loud and ugly when you try to use the available power.
    It was also not comfortable to sit and drive in. They need to address those issues before they worry about making it faster.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    not to mention the fact that the civic has no problems selling at the price point its at, and the corolla has more incentives and discounts.

    and just for kicks:

    reasons for buying the civic over the corolla.

    1.more efficient engine (gets similar mpg on a more powerful engine in a heavier chassis, a true testament to honda's engineering)

    2. Responsive, un-mushy braking.

    3. Better safety ratings and abs

    4. Handles worlds better, with much less body lean.

    5. highest end model give you disc brakes

    6. cooler styling. :P

    i know some of these things will be counteracted by the new corolla, but there are something that i don't think will change. (handling: it'll probably get better, but it wont be the benchmark like a few posters were asking in a few posts prior. When even car mags like car and driver state that the ride of the mazda 3 is a bit stiff, i doubt that toyota would want to get even remotely competative in that regard.)

    DrFill: the jetta can be had for 16k and offer much more content than the current corolla offers. Granted you pay for it with a loss in economy, but a 17k price tag saves you money on car payments, and gets you a longer warranty and the absolute best interior in the price range. Even the top level mazda 3 hatch can be had for less than 20k.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    For Civic in my area.

    Corolla currently offers $750-1000, but no rate.

    Very few economy cars sell without an incentive.

    There are reasons to buy either car, and they both are selling very well, so problems can't be that severe.

    Americans don't buy cars for handling. That is a niche market for economy cars. That's why Toyota ignores cutting-edge handling. ;)

    DrFill
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    true, but the civic has never NEEDED one. They move off lots pretty well if you ask me. I can't ever recall the corolla ever being like 'oh my god we NEED to get this car! its amazing!' whereas the civic got lots of that when it debuted.

    maybe the new generation will change that? me, i'm interested in the blade and how it will stack up.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    And this was without a rate. Civic also set a record the same month (May).

    I don't think either car has ever NEEDED an incentive. If ever a small car could go without, these two could. :)

    DrFill
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    ah, true, true.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Maybe more accurate to say, "Americans who buy Toyotas don't buy cars for handling." ;)
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    true again.

    i did like the old corolla gt-s, but it was still no crx. the supra was amazing; you could turbo that thing way past the factory settings and the block would hold up! (i've seen stock supra blocks hold up even after making over 600hp to the wheels! :surprise: )

    alas for what toyota could have been...
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    100-150k of the old CRX, with an updated interior/safety package.

    That would be easy as pie.

    Maybe this sub-$20k hybrid Honda is working on will be the Next CRX? Word on the street is the CRX is coming back. :shades:

    DrFill
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    Yes DrFill, the Honda car model is sporty, reliable, and economical vs the Corolla that is just reliable and economical. Ironically its Toyota that is supplying 1.8L turbo engines to Lotus that put out over 200 hp! Why not pass some of that down to the masses? :confuse:

    I could care less what the sales of each are, quality of available dealerships is vastly more important. Very weak dealer networks is what keeps me away from Mazda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, and all the domestics. :sick:

    I agree the torque is the key (and that Corolla's engine gets rough/noisy at high rpms). Just look at Rabbit TDI hp, torque, and 0-60 times. My oldest stepson just graduated from college and gave his 2001 5M, 120K mile Plymouth Neon to his 16 year old brother. I drove it about 130 miles today. Boy does that put all this Civic vs. Corolla back in perspective! The Neon is very crudely designed and built, with no low end torque from a 2.0L engine.

    I don't believe that Americans are totally insensitive to handling, good or bad. Its just not as high a priority here as in Europe or the Far East.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    But most of the Lotus Elise run on a lightly modified Toyota 1.8L with Dual VVTi-L, tuned to 190HP. This engine was previously fetured, in lesser tune, in the Matrix XRS, Corolla XRS, and Celica GT-S.

    So we've had our chances with a sports engine from Toyota, and the masses rejected them. It's a great engine, if you are gonna run 5000 RPM all day, and it lead to class leading economy and acceleration numbers in MT 2005 small car comparison. ;)

    DrFill
  • clecayenneclecayenne Member Posts: 8
    I think the new Corolla will look like the new Scion Xd
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    LOL! Good joke!

    Um... you are joking, right?
  • cubssoxscubssoxs Member Posts: 139
    I have a feeling that the 2009 Toyota Corolla will look like a mini Camry. I also believe that the interior will look much similar to the 10th gen corolla that is in Japan right now. But who know it is just specultation.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    Yup, it must be in jest (I hope!).

    Remember the three certainties in life: Death, tax, and a boring design for the Corolla!
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    good question...i personally thought that it was going to be a sort of oddball car, like the prius, instead of a sporty one.

    i dunno about a new crx. its has to be legendary, because if it isn't people will eat honda up alive. you know how ridiculous people can get when expectations are not met.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Small, lightweight design.

    Sub-$20k price

    Plenty of hatchback space to store batteries.

    CRX Brand equity. It even had a history of super-efficient engines, with the HF.

    Honda should still offer it with the Civic's engine, doh. It's a car that really shouldn't have left the lineup. The Fit has taken it's place. I'd rather have the CRX. :(

    DrFill
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    yeah, the specs on the fit are actually pretty darn close to the old dx and cx hatchbacks in a lot of ways, even power to weight ratios.

    i dunno, i didn't realize their hybrid was going to be a hatch?!

    i guess i just can't imagine the return of the crx in a hybrid guise...if they wanted fuel efficiency, they should re-release a crx hf like you mentioned...but also offer a regular version along with it.
  • fastandstylefastandstyle Member Posts: 55
    if you analize the toyota design strategy you will find a pattern that follows this way.

    Lexus box modelo 2000 to 2005 tranfer the design to corolla 2003, then corolla 2003 tranfer the design to yaris o echo 2006.

    Now is the same.... Lexus and Camry tranfer the box to corolla 2008, and then in 2011 corolla tranfer the box to Echo.
    This design have some logic if you think about that Toyota is more conservative than Honda or Mazda designs.

    Tell me your point of view
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I disagree with your logic. The "New" Corolla that everyone including myself think we are getting next year is actually being sold right now as an 2007 model in other countries. Watch this link and the videos next to it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2_XeBs8lQg

    The interior sure looks like the one on the pictures that have been circulating on the net lately.

    Here's another video, this of the Camry that's sold in two versions in other countries. Sure looks a LOT nicer that our version.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjMb9tMgPSs&mode=related&search=
  • ever12ever12 Member Posts: 22
    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/hatchbacks/is-toyota-planning-a-v6-auriscorol- la

    This interesting that Toyota is considering an AWD V6 corolla. The fact that Toyota has been swapping know-how with Subaru, particularly Subaru's AWD know-how only furthers my suspicions:

    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/toyota-and-subaru-swapping-know-how

    The second they announce it im putting my deposit down.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Hmmn. I almost prefer the styling of that Camry to ours; It's more along the lines of the Lexus GS....

    Also, I can't fathom that Toyota would bring us a Corolla V6/AWD. The company uses waaaayyy too much starch in their collars to ever do anything like that. Here's to hoping I'm wrong, though!

    Its sure does seem, though, that Toyota's 2.5L and 3.0L GR engines are underutilized in the NA market, and I'd love for a V6 Corolla to force Lexus to use the 3.0 GR as the base engine in the IS...
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    A V-6 in the Corolla. I must have missed it when gas went down. I will have go fill up. ;)

    How about a 1.6 in the Corolla? Seems that is the direction we need to be going in.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    word.

    come one you guys a v-6 corolla with awd? since when did toyota get jealous of the r32 or other rally-ish machines?

    whats next? a turbocharged v-8?

    puh lease.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    Its sure does seem, though, that Toyota's 2.5L and 3.0L GR engines are underutilized in the NA market

    totally agree. the 2.5 would have been a great choice for the camry se, given its 'sporting' pretensions and midpack price...it would have offered better (if only slightly) fuel economy than the v6 currently in the camry, but better performance than the 4 cyl. It could have been an exclusive engine or something.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Well, I like the 3.5L in the Camry very much, and it does a great job of achieving commendable fuel economy given it's ability to move the car with major alacrity. If you mean have the "base" SE Camry utilize the 2.5L and having the 3.5L as an option, I'm all about that.... I'm sure there would be major manufacturing or logistical challenges to this, though, which would mean the cost not worth the potential (and unproven) gain.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if they bring that one in for the 4th year refresh of the Camry. Sure looks more luxurious than what we have. There's a short commercial on youtube about the pedestrian Yaris and if you really pay attention you see that Camry drive by. It's the pearl white and it is gorgeous. I can't remember the name of the commercial but go to youtube and search for Yaris commercials. :)
    Mackabee
  • ever12ever12 Member Posts: 22
    "word.

    come one you guys a v-6 corolla with awd? since when did toyota get jealous of the r32 or other rally-ish machines?

    whats next? a turbocharged v-8?

    puh lease."


    Check around the web. Type AWD V6 Corolla into any search engine. Whether it happens or not, who knows, but this rumor has been in circulation for a long time now
  • ever12ever12 Member Posts: 22
    Wikipedia

    From Wikipeida:

    "The Auris will be marketed to the U.S in late 2008 as a 2009 model, and will replace the outgoing Toyota Matrix, which will be discontinued after 2008. It will be called the Toyota Blade."
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    There is already a car by that name in Japan. Check it out at www.toyota.co.jp :) I do hope the Matrix goes away, it's been a dog as far as I'm concerned. :( Solara hasn't been doing that great either but I see it's coming back for 08.
    Mack
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    ....of ignorning certain model lines, inexplicably. For a good 6 years during the 90s, the Celica went igorned until the spiffy and successful MY '00 redesign, but that too was allowed to languish until cancellation. I see a similar thing happening with the Solara. Why in hell does it continue with the 3.3L when its produced alongside the Camry, which features the stellar 3.5L, for example? Other examples of bastardized Toyotas, IMHO, would be the Paseo, Previa, etc. IMO, there's no doubt the Solara will be quietly euthanized after this model run.

    Back to Corolla... I'm soooo crossing my fingers for a real Corolla hatch, as well as a Matrix replacement. We shall see.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Don't forget the Tercel which was a pretty darn good car until it started to compete with the Corolla. The same thing is happening with the Yaris. You can get a better deal on the current Corolla as opposed to the Yaris. We have Yari coming out of our ears right now.! They priced it too high and once you add the options everybody wants you're in Corolla territory. :(
    Mackabee
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