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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • jet10000jet10000 Member Posts: 656
    From the Canadian site it appears that all the options are available. I can't see them offering it in the North but not in the South. For what reason would they do this?

    Again, the Canadian market is far different from the American market. The Canadian market is more similar to Europe in the popularity of the compact cars. Thus car manufacturers will are more likely to offer luxury items in a compact up there. Car manufacturers have been selling upgraded compacts in Canada for years. The Civic has had a leather option available there for example.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I still don't see what benefit for Mr/Mrs America will see by having a 5AT vs a 4AT. Are they going to race their Corolla? What is it that a day to day driver will gain by the extra gearing? If the 5AT were significantly more economical then OK I'd see some benefit...but it's not...from the EPA website:

    2008 Honda Civic 5AT
    New EPA MPG
    New MPG tests are more realistic
    Regular Gasoline
    City 25
    Combined 29
    Hwy 36

    2008 Toyota Corolla 4AT
    Regular Gasoline
    City 26
    Combined 29
    Hwy 35



    Fuel Economics
    Cost to drive 25 Miles $2.59 $2.59
    Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 0.86 gal 0.86 gal
    Cost of a Fill-up ..........TBA ........ $35.76
    Miles on a Tank ......... TBA ....... 345 miles
    Tank Size ................. TBA ....... 13.2 gal
    Annual Fuel Cost* $1558 $1558

    Based on 45% highway driving, 55% city driving, 15000 miles/year and Reg.: $3.01 per gallon
    Click to use your gas prices and annual miles
    Energy Impact Score
    Annual Petroleum Consumption
    (1 barrel=42 gallons)
    11.8 barrels 11.8 barrels
    Carbon Footprint
    Annual Tons of CO2 Emitted 6.3 6.3

    Wher is the benefit of a 5AT vs a 4AT?

    That being said, if the new Valvematic that soon will be on every new Toyota engine, comes out and adds 10% to the FE across the board then there's a real benefit. But now we're back to business and economic considerations. Profit and Expense and Pricing.

    After 2 yrs when this new Corolla model has paid for itself and it's development costs have been covered then a new more expensive, more efficient engine can be added without increasing the price of the vehicle.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    As your figures show, a 5AT on the Civic gets better highway fuel economy than the less-powerful engine and 4AT on the 2009 Corolla. That's one benefit. Another benefit is that a 5AT can shift more smoothly than a 4AT because there's less difference between ratios, depending on how they're designed of course.

    Is it a huge difference? No. I think some people make more out of the benefit of a 5AT vs. a 4AT on a low-powered car than is there in the real world of A-to-B commuting, the typical use for cars like the Corolla.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Oh really? Please name the specific differences that have always been in effect in Canada for say the last 20 yrs on the prior Corollas and Camrys specifically because Canada is more similar to Europe than the US.
    Canada has had more diesels while the US has had more gassers? Uh, No
    Canada has had more upscale features while the US has not? Uh, No
    Canada uses the metric system and the US does not? Uh, OK

    Please, you're just making things up now. It's referred to as the NADM for a reason.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Several years ago, 3 speed automatics were the standard. Then 4 speeds became the standard and some cars lagged behind extra years with 3-speeds (like the Neon and Metro) when almost everyone else was on 4 speeds.
    Now 5-speeds are expected on new designs and the Corolla is lagging behind for a "new" model.
    Cars with smaller engines benefit most with more gears. It isn't just the top gear, but the more closely spaced gears in between make for smoother acceleration without huge RPM changes between gears. Much more refined drive and the car stays in it's power band when you are trying to get on the freeway and you still have a tall gear left over for quiet highway cruising.
    Ironically, cars with bigger engines that don't need gears to be as closely spaced are the ones that are getting 5 and 6-speeds in many cases. The Rav4 has a 5-speed with the V6 and 4-speed with the 4 cylinder when it would be more practical if it was the opposite.
    Lexus with 7 speeds and a V8? You shouldn't even be able to feel the gears change at all.
    1.8 liter 4 cylinder with only 4 speeds? Crude and dated for a newly designed 2009 model.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Perhaps an automotive executive cares who sells the most at the end of the day, but as a buyer it means zilch to me. As a buyer, I want the most features and the highest quality in relation to the dollars I'm willing to pay.

    American manufacturers thought nothing mattered except which vehicle makes more money for many years too. So they did the same thing you're advising to keep counting the money and declaring a winner. They followed your advice and now they're in the hole.

    The big difference is that Toyota has been doing this for nearly 30 years also, just better than Detroit. They have always been blasted for selling vanilla ice cream....because the vast majority of the US buying public likes vanilla ice cream. On the domestic boards there's intense frustration with both Toyota and Honda because of their bland styling ( til late ), tiny putt-putt engines, and appliance-type appeal.

    That's what's made the two so successful. It's now being copied by Hyundai.

    Again it's a HUGE market that can cater to all tastes and desires. Yours is for more rather than less so maybe Mazda or Honda is the better choice. This is good because you can be satisfied and still the bulk of the population can be satisfied as well.

    Again this has everything to do with the normal distribution bell curve and profits..nothing more.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Watch when the new 2.0L Valvematic eventually makes it's way here it will probably be linked with a 5AT. But this 1.8L is still a small engine.

    Outside of beauty pageant awards what's the benefit to Mr/Mrs America of a 5AT over a 4AT?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Agreed on the Hwy FE but if as expected the new 2009 Corolla gets
    City 27
    Combined 30
    Hwy 35

    ...on what will be a bigger vehicle then even with an 'outdated' 4AT the Corolla comes out ahead econmy-wise.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    ??? The same as the benefit of a 4 speed over 3 speeds from 10 or 15 years ago. Closer spaced gears, less rpm change between gear changes, smoother acceleration, quicker acceleration, more refined, sometimes improved fuel economy.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, probably due to lighter weight and lower power compared to the Civic. I wonder what kind of highway FE the 2009 Corolla would get with the 1.8L engine and a 5AT? Also hard to tell the driveability of the 2009 Corolla with 4AT vs. Civic with 5AT until the Corolla is available for testing.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    It appears that all the comments back and forth are essentially in agreement. The 5AT is probably smoother but more expensive. The 4AT is well proven, less expensive and likely more efficient even on a bigger vehicle.

    The market 'needs' both options in order to satisfy both the enthusiasts and the cost-conscious. This is good.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I don't agree with the "...likely more efficient even on a bigger vehicle" part. I don't think there's any evidence that a 4AT is more efficient than a 5AT, in general. In fact, I think it's the other way around. The more gear ratios there are, the more efficiently the transmission can use the car's available power at all speeds.
  • dgecho1dgecho1 Member Posts: 49
    No, actually you didn't understand my post at all..to use your same tone!

    I can't comment on price in mid-atlantic area any more than I can comment on 1st hand experience in Japan.....what is available here [practically] to me in FL is priced higher than the civic and is outdated...should have a better offering for 09 after several years to work on this.....i don't think the 09 will be competitive...I know they can do better than tweak the same engine and keep the same trans....throw a camry engine in for the upper models..and add new sheetmetal and lights and call it 'new'....honda did a complete re-design for the 06 and up..I know Toyota can do the same after doing things like the prius..and other hybrid work....and ditching one of their best samll cars..believe it or not, the echo.......
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Member Posts: 541
    There are two benefits of going from 4AT to 5AT:

    1) improved acceleration, since you can keep the engine in the most efficient rev range for acceleration.

    2) Better freeway fuel economy, since with a 5AT you can use a gear ratio in the highest gear for lower engine revs without sacrificing performance when you accelerate at freeway speeds.

    That's why Honda's development of the compact 5AT unit for its Civic line was such a big breakthrough; I hope that Toyota will offer soon a similar compact 5AT for the Yaris and Corolla and the Scion xB and xD models, especially with today's high fuel prices.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    Here is a very funny news article about these two cars:
    http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/11/01/business/NA-FIN-US-Toyota-Corolla.php

    I have a question to both Chief engineers Mr Shinichi Yasui and David Terai of Corolla and Matrix respectively.
    Ummh . What exactly did you engineer in these cars?
    Ummh.. do we really need engineering to produce these cars? Can't we use the old drawing? I dont see any difference anyway.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    Furthermore, Chief Engineer David Terai said in the article that they want the Matrix to apeal to the younger buyers.
    I nearly fell off my seat after reading this. If youre having your meal and planning to read the article, please stop eating because you might choke with laughter.
    Ummh.... Mr Engineer David Terai ... how is this going to appeal to younger buyers sir. Do you think that STICK ON , TACKY body parts such as the front spoiler , side rocker panels will appeal to the younger buyers? Does TORSION BEAM rear suspension appeal to younger buyers? Does whacky, retarded, body lines that you cant figure out if it was designed here or in Mars appeal to younger buyers?
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Since this thread has deteriorated into a Civic VS Corolla argument I'm skipping town for awhile. See you in Feb. image
    I don't have the time and energy to keep banging my head against the wall. image
    What part of Corolla outsells Civic do you guys don't understand?
    Mackabee
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    "The acceleration is better than Camry," said chief engineer Shinichi Yasui, noting the XRS Corolla can go from zero to 60 mph in 8.1 seconds. "This acceleration is top of class for a small car."

    Really ? Get out of here!
    Ummh... Mr Chief Engineer sir, Which Camry are we talking about here, the 2.4L or the 3.5L? Well, if it was the 2.4L, it certainly is not a feat that you can be proud off considering that its heavier than the Corolla.

    Now I know why we got a badly redesigned Corolla.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "Honda offers a 4 cylinder Civic with heated leather seats beginning this year. Other than Mackabee's supposed "inside" sources, there's been no official info from Toyota that the Corolla will be available with the same feature for the 4 cyl. "

    When did I say the Corolla would be available with heated seats?
    Mackabee
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    ...the whole point. It doesn't have to win any awards. It only has to sell to the bulk of the population that wants it just as it is.

    Again the old outdated Gen9 Corolla outsells the wonderful new Civic. That's all that counts. Nothing more. If certain buyers don't feel it suits them then there are plenty of options available. If the bulk of the buying public wants vanilla ice cream then the Corolla will continue to crush all the others.

    It's very very simple.

    We had this same discussion two years ago before the Camry came out and you predicted it would be a loser. Well if being No 1 in sales and making tons of money is losing, then point me in that direction. So far you're 0-1 in your predictions.

    Here is mine. The new Corolla will astound/frustrate the enthusiasts because it will continue to trounce the Civic ( and all the rest ) even with only nominal changes. That's just what was intended.
  • sr1945sr1945 Member Posts: 38
    Just have to ask and vent one more thing for all of us to chew on....

    It was said, that since the new civic design came out, the new corolla was moved back another year or so to make some changes whether or not this is true. Model year 2005 should have been the mid model refresh, but that never happen.

    My question is, " Is this all that Toyota could come up with in 6 years of the older model ? What in tar nations took so long just for this minor refresh anyway ?

    How long now for another so called make over or minor refresh ? Another 6 years. It took them that long for this disappointment, and not something that we could all agree on that it was worth the wait ? Goodness Toyota, what happen to you and this long in coming minor refresh anyway ?
  • kenymkenym Member Posts: 405
    IF THE HONDA IS SOOO GREAT.......GO BUY A HONDA......IT IS REALY THAT SIMPLE
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    It was said, that since the new civic design came out, the new corolla was moved back another year or so to make some changes whether or not this is true. Model year 2005 should have been the mid model refresh, but that never happen.

    Not this again,

    I think I've responded to this, in this thread, at least 5 times previously. Your statement is one of those urban internet myths that 'if you see it on the internet it must be true' sort of things.

    Here are the real facts. This design was finished over 2-1/2 years ago. That's one full year before the the Civic debuted. Nothing changed since then. In Europe this design launched on time 18 mos ago. In Australia this design launched 12 months ago. In NA this design ran into the Tundra launch ( so it was pushed back a year ). Except for the powertrains this NA vehicle is the same one being sold in Europe and Austrailia.

    The delay had nothing to do with the Civic. It had only to do with being run over by the the Tundra. The current 'outdated' Corolla has been killing the wonderful new Civic for over a year now. There's no urgency to change especially since the Tundra had the entire spotlight.

    In addition, auto designs, tooling, production, logistics, supply decisions are made 4-7 yrs in advance. This isn't like repainting your room. It can't be changed 'on the fly' like this myth would have you believe. The 2012 3 yr 'refresh' is finished already. The Gen11 Corolla for 2014 is probably well under way and depending on how significant the changes, it may be closed to finished in some aspects.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Main Entry:
    en·thu·si·ast Listen to the pronunciation of enthusiast
    Pronunciation:
    \-ˌast, -əst\
    Function:
    noun
    Date:
    1570

    : a person filled with enthusiasm: as a: one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit b: one who tends to become ardently absorbed in an interest

    image
    image

    0-60 times

    8.5
    8.9
    oooohh. I'm impressed.
    image

    link title
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    How long now for another so called make over or minor refresh ? Another 6 years. It took them that long for this disappointment, and not something that we could all agree on that it was worth the wait ? Goodness Toyota, what happen to you and this long in coming minor refresh anyway ?

    Again like the other similar comments you are not viewing this like a business decision.

    It is just business, nothing more. It is not a beauty pageant.

    The Corolla intentionally is designed to appeal to the bulk of the buying public by being very very traditional, affordable and reliable. As a factory unit it is not intended for the 'zoom-zoom' or 'drifting' crowd. Those mods can be done but out of the factory it is nintended to appeal to Middle America ( Europe/Australia ) that just wants a competitive vehicle that they can forget about.

    Your statement above is trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Why? This vehicle is by far the most profitable small vehicle in the world. Why would anyone want to change that formula?

    It's only about business. Nothing more.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    You're probably right with the COTY but only with respect to Toyotas who won it. As far as I know COTY award winners from Honda such as the Civic and Fit were hugely succesful.

    The Fit is one of the rare cases in which the crtitics voting for the JCOTY and the buying public agreed. The Civic? It's been a forgotten car in Japan - you hardly ever see one in the streets over there.

    I know that this is a Corolla thread, but as a matter of interest, these are the Japan COTY winners since 2000:

    2000: Civic
    2001: Fit
    2002: Accord
    2003: Legacy
    2004: Legend (Acura RL)
    2005: Roadster (Miata)
    2006: LS460
    2007: TBA

    All good cars, except that among these only the Fit and Legacy have sold in any meangful volume in Japan. The Accord and Civic have been unbelievable flops in that country, barely exceeding 1000 units sold in a month. The last three selections are not intended to be high volume vehicles anyway.

    Ironically for my theory, when Toyota last won the JCOTY, they hit a big one in the sales. It was in 1999 with the Vitz/Platz/FunCarGo, known as the Yaris line in the rest of the world.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Interesting we have folks saying how terrible and inferior the 2009 Corolla will be compared to others in its class, but no one here has driven it yet, and in fact there have been no test drive reports published (to my knowledge). What we know is that the new Corolla will be roomier, have a more modern exterior design, have an "all new" chassis and suspension (whatever that means), have a more powerful base engine, and add some important standard features such as ABS, side curtain airbags, and a telescopic steering wheel. There's been a lot of consternation about the fact that a 5AT is hard to get on the car, the new base engine has "only" 132 hp, and it appears that the all-new suspension will still employ a twist-beam rear axle.

    Maybe we could wait to predict doom and gloom for the new Corolla until it's available to drive. Maybe it will have an improved ride, with superior smoothness and NVH for its class, and improved handling. Maybe the new engine will be well-suited for the car and the 4AT (and 5MT). Maybe it will have the best crash scores in its class. Maybe the driving position will (finally!) be comfortable for all or nearly all drivers. Maybe it will have even more of what most people are looking for in a small car, and will sell like hotcakes.

    Or maybe not. But it's a little early I think to be so negative about the car. There's plenty of time for that after we know what it's like to drive. ;)
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    A very wise point you are making, backy.

    By the way, when the 10th-gen Corolla was released in Japan back in 2006 (NZE140 - different from the NA Corolla to be released, which is E150), all the critics fell asleep at its steering wheel. Me, I fell asleep before driving off the lot, and can barely keep my eyes open talking about it right now. And guess which car has been the number one selling in Japan since then (excluding the kei-class)?

    The hint is that its name starts with a "C." ;)
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    I'm not surprised by very subtle changes in the base Corolla and that is a good business decision. With the disappearance of the Celica GT-S from the line-up, I expected some risk in the XRS model. If volumes are to remain consistent with the 05-06 XRS volumes, even a total flop would not hurt the bottom line significantly. This could have been a good entrance towards reintroduction of the Supra. I would have hoped for the 1.8 L offered in the XRS again with the hp upped to ~185 (similar to the Lotus tweaks), some weight reduction down to ~2500 lbs and a skip pad g rating of around 0.90. I believe these specs would warrant a price as high as $25 K if TRDRacing offered a few aftermarket parts.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I can't believe we are discussing TRDRacing and Corolla in the same sentence. Bit of an oxymoron don't you think?
    :shades:
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I can't believe we are discussing TRDRacing and Corolla in the same sentence. Bit of an oxymoron don't you think?

    Toyota Racing Development Racing?

    The history of the tuner movement and sport compact car enthusiasts has revolved around Japanese cars of Corolla size. Despite the Civic, Sentra, Impreza, Lancer are all more popular than Corolla to modify, I find no oxymoron with TRD and Corolla being linked.

    image

    TRD offers parts for racing and for street for nearly the entire range of Toyota vehicles.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Even with all the extra BLANK space on the right side of the screen, Edmunds still crops pictures into the narrow portion of the screen used for text.
    Great! (yes I'm being sarcastic)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    Correct - we got way more complaints about way oversized photos distorting the screen and making the text very hard to read.

    For those photos, we offer you a CarSpace photo album.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Thanks.

    I can offer an additional 6 inches of blank space on my screen if your interested.

    Wait, now I can see the entire photo. Something different every visit at Edmunds. Yeah!

    What do y'all think about AWD if it were optional on the Corolla?
    I expect it would be plug and play since platform is closely shared between Matrix and Corolla.
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    I think a better question would be why even offer an XRS model if it is not going to be competitive or better in power / weight ratio and handling to the Civic Si or Cooper S and get aftermarket support from TRD? Isn't the whole premise of an XRS badge for increased handling and power?
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    Since AWD has long been available with the JDM Corolla, it would be a marketing decision, not a technical decision for Toyota. I personally think it would be a good idea for Toyota to offer the Corolla AWD in North America. But Toyota actually doing it? I doubt it.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I was actually kinda expecting they would use the Camry 2.4 in the new Corolla XRS, I just thought they would juice it up a bit from the Camry specs. 155-158 hp is pretty underwhelming given the size of the engine (and the fact that its fuel economy in current applications is no better than mediocre), and even Toyota itself can't claim a better time than 8.1 seconds to 60 mph? A couple years back C&D timed the current model witht he base 1.8 at 8.5 seconds with the stick. So that aint so good...

    But the problem is the 2.4 is technologically very dated now - it should have been updated for the Camry line by now too. This could have been the perfect opportunity to update this engine for both model lines, had Toyota only seized it.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    I read an article in Motortrend about the Sentra SE-R (with CVT) claiming 0-60 time was 7.4 seconds and average fuel economy was tracked at 22.4 mpg. The Government estimates are 24 city/30 hwy, 26 combined.

    With Toyota claiming a 0-60 in 8.1 seconds will the XRS's fuel economy be better? I think I read somewhere it was projected to be the same as the Camry's (21 city/31 hwy). Shouldn't it improve even just a little? :confuse:

    Will pricing for the XRS be around the same as the SE-R? A 2008 SE-R MSRP with destination and no options is $20,305. Fully loaded MSRP $22,660. In the XRS's favor, it has optional stability control, Nav, and bluetooth, which also fully loaded might make the price a lot higher.

    Any other Manufacturer coming out with a compact offered with a midsize 4 banger engine? I think it's a great idea on account of rising gas prices!
  • snapcracklepopsnapcracklepop Member Posts: 111
    I was looking on the SEMA website and I was much more impressed with the Toyota 2009 Matrix (which was also unveiled at the show). I would be more inclined to go with that over the Corolla and I had never considered the Matrix before.
  • basiliskstbasiliskst Member Posts: 55
    My last small car choice came down to Corolla vs Focus. I went with the Focus ST with the "big" 2.3 liter engine for better driving dynamics. It is more fun than a daily drive should be (or typically is) and has been bullet proof reliable. The prior Corolla had a wonderfully refined interior for a small car but no particular sense of direction. Other than the independent rear suspension, the packaging and layout were very similar. Looking at the refreshes by both Toyota and Ford for 2008, the Corolla is more successful. While an enthusiast had reason to shop the Focus before and ignore the Corolla, now the roles are reversed. Ford dropped the 2.3 liter and Toyota added a bigger 2.4 liter engine as an option. From experience it is not just horsepower but torque that makes the driving difference. I suspect the 2.4 liter might be a pretty fun little car for every day driving. I'd still like independent rear suspension but apparently the Matrix/Vibe will offer IRS from the AWD version in the sport FWD versions. I'm not a big fan of Toyota styling, but the Corolla is not a bad update. When its making so much money, Toyota is not going to mess too much with the cash cow.
  • kasper06kasper06 Member Posts: 30
    The all new 2009 10th generation Toyota Corolla is exactly that, all new. It is not a refresh like the 2008 Ford Focus. From various sources I've spoken with and various articles I've read from overseas the all new Corolla is greatly improved in every way. According to Toyota it officially goes on sale February 11, 2008. North America is the last major market to get the new Corolla.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    How is the 4 speed automatic transmission different and improved compared to the previous 4 speed automatic transmission?
  • sr1945sr1945 Member Posts: 38
    If you take a good look at both the 9th and 10th generation real close you will see its a refresh only. The manufacture, and a few individuals that buy into this all new hype may say its all new, but not us who have their eyes open.

    ;)
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    I have not seen (taken apart) the 10th-gen US-spec Corolla, so I cannot comment on how far advanced it is if compared with the last generation.

    However, the history of the Corolla is that its most amazing advancement is in precisely where it does not typically meet the eyes nor does it show in the catalog specs. Those in the know, especially those of us who have worked in the automotive manufacturing and engineering, were blown away when the 9th generation Corolla was released. The way it has been engineered and assembled was a science of the maximum ROI while preserving other important aspects such as economy and reliability. Such engineering and manufacturing techniques do not show up in obvious manners, but they are precisely what makes this company called Toyota successful. I used to work for a competitor of Toyota, and I remember hearing a senior manager say, "There is no way we can imitate this - amazing."

    Horsepower, how many gears in a transmission, the design of suspension, etc., are easy. Anyone can come up with those with little efforts. Maximizing the ROI while preserving quality - now that's a know-how few have mastered.

    I repeat - it's a piece of cake for automotive engineering and manufacturing folks to come up with lofty-sounding machine pieces that make so-called auto enthusiasts salivate. What is difficult is to make your product in such a way to make your company a lot of money without sacrificing quality.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    It's not a refresh. Take a look at the current 08 and the upcoming 09:

    image

    2009

    image

    The 09 is 2.5 inches wider, the roof line is lower, the interior is totally different. So how can you say this is not a re-design?


    image
  • sr1945sr1945 Member Posts: 38
    Both photos look similar, and not something to get all googie eyed over after waiting almost 6 years.

    Waiting almost 6 long years and you would have thought it would be something to write home to mother about, but not this. No way. Looks like a refresh pure and simple. At least they could have given us a better interior like the European corolla.

    Those super dupper after thought, simple tack on molding look cheap and if Toyota could not find a way to give the look without a tack on, then something is wrong with the design team.

    Honda civic was an interesting totally different make over, this corolla is not.

    I took my deposit back because I was hoping for a nice change, a very nice interior like photos that I saw prior to SEMA and then Toyota gave the American market a dumb down version instead. Nope, this is a refresh only.

    If those that think this is any different, than you are easly taken by the hype from the marketing con from Toyota.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    This is pretty consistent across all Toyota's products.

    Both the platforms and the engines/drivetrains have about a 10 yr life cycle consisting of two generations each. The platform and drivetrain life cycles often overlap by about 5 yrs.
    Body ( yr )
    1
    2
    3
    4...refresh
    5
    6...MCE ( Mid Cycle Enhancement )
    7
    8...refresh
    9
    10

    In Feb we will be starting yr #7 of this 'general' platform. As mackabee noted there are enough new changes in the platform of this Gen10 that the MCE could be considered 'all new'.

    The MCE should have been done last spring but was pushed back. Does that mean that the current Gen will last only 4 yrs? None of us know.

    Since noone in the public has seen the new model in its various forms I'd say your presumptions are somewhat premature. It's going to be a killer IMHO.

    Oh btw I think that there will be a euro-styled model but the public will be asked to pay euro-style money for it also.$24000-$27000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But as we noted several times previously this is not where the money is. The money is in $17000 Base models. For all the 'needs' and 'desires' of the enthusiasts high-end low volume models are for the niche players. For some reason you think Toyota made a 'mistake' in this design. How about they did it intentionally in order to generate more volume ( profits ) from the general population.

    In the end it's only about money. Whichever company has the most at the end of the year is the winner.
  • lls57lls57 Member Posts: 57
    I, for one, am looking forward to seeing the 09! I have an 03 with 90k miles, and am ready for a new car. I am waiting to see what it looks like in person, and if it's nice as it looks in pictures, will be getting it. I like the idea of good gas mileage, and some of the niceties, so I'll probably look at the XLE.
  • lls57lls57 Member Posts: 57
    I was at the Arizona Auto Show yesterday, and they had the 09 Corolla there to see. It was marked prototype, and it was locked, though. It must have been a base model, it had hand crank windows. Having seen it in person, I have to agree that it looks a lot like a mini Camry.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    (Mackabee banging head against wall) It's NOT A REFRESH! Go buy a Civic if you think it's so cool.
    :shades:
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