Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Not any more Mack. Check out the November sales. The Civic outsold the Corolla. Oh! Better get used to being number 2. Especially with the very underpowered new Corolla being released.
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1097/releases/4381
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/corporate/2007/12/03-1-sales.html
Honda (not Toyota) must be rather concerned about these numbers. Their competitor, the Corolla, a fully amortized model (every unit sold is pure profit) gets beat by their newer model, the Civic, in sales number by this small a margin. If I were running the Honda marketing department (US), I would be scared to go into the executive meeting room to have to explain this.
I don't have that information. Sorry.
With the real-world price of the 2009 Corolla being much closer to that of the Civic (e.g. fewer rebates on the new Corolla, at least at the start), it will be interesting to see what the sales volume will be.
Mackabee
Motor Trend has a first drive, too.
Motor Trend
Mack
Car Connection
Looks like Toyota won't need to worry about the new Corolla being named "best in class" by the press. But it should be good enough to sell tons of them, as was noted in the reviews. It will sell on reputation, on being an exceptional small-car appliance, and because many buyers won't bother to check on what else is out there.
Factory nav without voice recognition had better be much lower priced than others.
Bad steering, cheap interior, base engine needs another gear on the automatic for highway cruising and the upgraded engine has both disappointing performance and disappointing fuel economy.
Maybe the MMC will bring new engines and transmissions in 3 years that will make it more competitive.
:shades:
Mackabee
Base engine needs another gear (for automatic) - I suppose it would improve fuel economy, but it the '09 Corolla's fuel economy beats the current Civic.
From the Car and Driver Review above: "27 city/35 highway, more or less the same as 2007 even with the EPA’s stricter 2008 testing regiment." This is not bad, considering it is a larger car than the old one, and it beat Civic.
"Cheap interior" - some like it, some don't. Same comments for the steering.
Don't forget the 6 year old Corolla still beat everything else in it's class in Sales, so Toyota is obviously doing something right.
Merry Christmas to all!!
OTOH in the center of the bell curve where all the volume is located the buying population seems to want little or nothing except a low price and rock solid reliability. This is also where all the money, profits, volume, are located, If Mazda and Honda and Nissan satisfy the smaller volume fringe segments and Toyota handles the basic commodity type segment then everybody is happy.
Afterall they did this intentionally. It's not like Toyota is new to this segment. They own it.
I thought it was interesting that edmunds.com felt the interior was a step forward, while C/D criticized the HVAC nobs heavily (but didn't really focus on other aspects of the interior).
I think the problem is that Toyota seems to have tried to pull a fast one on the sporting crowd. Why does the Matrix XRS get an indy rear suspension but the Corolla XRS soliders on with cost saving non-technology? Why is there STILL no dual variable valve timing on the otherwise contemporary 2.4L VVTi engine? Why has Toyota begun usage of VSC cutoff switches to elevate intrusion thresholds with virtually every new design, but not here. It's almost as if Toyota is presenting enthusiastic drivers with a checklist as to why they should buy a Mazda 3 s, Saturn Astra, or Impreza 2.5i and for me, it comes off arrogant and condescending. Toyota has TONS of cash, everyone knows it, don't cut corners where people are going to notice.
To give the vehicle its credit, I was surprised at the performance numbers it recorded in the Edmunds.com review, given their test of the ride-biased suspension setup. Even if it didn't feel sporting, .83g, nearly 64 MPH through the slalom, and 125 feet from 60 is pretty strong. At the very least, this speak sto the CAPABILITY of the strengthened chassis, if not engagement. And, I'm happy to see that the vehicle barely grew outside, but has gotten a bit roomier.
Just like McDonald's? I'm glad everyone is so easily pleased. Maybe people could att least desire better brakes on their car for safety? Lighter cars should be able to stop in the 110-115 ft. range.
What? Why? Is this really that important in everyday driving when vehicles can already stop in about 125 feet? I'd much rather have a full complement of gear (active head restraints, stability, side curtains) or a few more MPG than a couple extra feet in panic stop capability, given that performance is already good.
Yes, but someone else has that market covered better right now than Toyota does with the Corolla--Hyundai with the Elantra. It's just that not too many people, especially Toyota fans, realize that yet. That's why it's disappointing that Toyota has IMO tried to "cheap out" with this new Corolla, especially compared to its stronger competition. When a competitor offers more interior room, a smooth and quiet ride, a nicer interior with better-quality bits (e.g. HVAC knobs), better standard safety equipment (including 4-wheel discs on all trims and standard ESC on some trims), a longer warranty, a more powerful standard engine, a more sophisticaed suspension (4-wheel independent), strong reliability, and a lower price, what does the Corolla have to offer except for a little better fuel economy and the availability of factory navigation?
If Toyota wants to continue to grow long-term, they need to do more than "just enough to get by." They need to start at least meeting if not exceeding what their competitors offer. Their brand image will carry them for awhile, but not indefinitely, IMO. We have learned that lesson from history. Actually, Toyota was the beneficiary of that lesson, when it was a hard one for the U.S. carmakers.
Toyota Motor Corp. must have been telling the truth when it denied reports its second-best selling U.S. car, the Corolla, was being delayed, sent back to the drawing board after executives saw the new Honda Civic.
Because, unlike what Honda Motor Co. Ltd. did with its compact car – a total rip-up, boundary-pushing redesign, Toyota has delivered a downright boring Corolla for ’09.
Appearance has changed hardly an iota from its predecessor, and performance and handling characteristics aren’t terribly adrenalin inducing, either.-end
Corolla article from Wards Auto News
The automotive press is not impressed with the new Corolla.
I agree with this next quote.
In all, the new Corolla offers the type of improvements that usually come with a mid-cycle refreshening, and it’s hard to see why this car wasn’t ready for the market two years ago.
quote Wards
Certainly the move to offer a 4-speed automatic in all but the uppermost trim, while the Civic has moved up to a standard 5-speed automatic, is at the very least embarrassing.
A car with all drum brakes would be okay in everyday driving. And you don't need ABS, airbags, side-protection beams, or stability control for everyday driving. But you want those things for the exceptional occurrence. I don't see how you can make a case that poorer braking is better.
I'd much rather have a full complement of gear ...
Why do have to choose 1, to the exclusion of the other?
or a few more MPG than a couple extra feet in panic stop capability,
One doesn't affect the other.
given that performance is already good.
I'd rather excellent than good. 10 feet is about the difference from scaring yourself, to taking the top off of your car on the rear-end of a truck. Or maybe the 5 mph differnce when you hit something that keeps you from getting a concussion.
I'm just pointing out that mannufacturers should not be cheap. Large 4-wheel disc brakes should be a standard safety item, since the technology is readily available for a few hundred dollars extra.
Sure, Toyota allocated it's resources to the Tundra to make sure there would be no quality problems when it was introduced. ROFLMBO!
Thank God the automotive press doesn't buy cars.
:shades:
The article is from December 24th, that is certainly not old.
4 speed automatic is old and an excellent example of outdated technology for an 09 introduction.
Question for jacksan1, Who do you give credence to?
Because, unlike what Honda Motor Co. Ltd. did with its compact car – a total rip-up, boundary-pushing redesign, Toyota has delivered a downright boring Corolla for ’09.
Appearance has changed hardly an iota from its predecessor, and performance and handling characteristics aren’t terribly adrenalin inducing, either.-end
Corolla article from Wards Auto News
Wow even Wards can be incredibly thick sometimes. They even said it themselves in the article. Very little has changed even with a year's delay. OK this has been known for at least 18 months - even before the Civic debuted. So what would one deduce from this. Toyota wanted very little to be changed. It was intentional. Wards also acknowledges that Toyota has denied sending the vehcle back to the drawing board, but they seem confused as to why if no changes were being planned???
Hmmmmmmtundrammmm. GoshIdonttundraknowwhytundrathattheywoulddelayayearanddosolittle. Whathappentundralastyearwhenthecorollatundrawassupposedtodebut?
I can't figure it our for the life of me either. BTW I have very little respect for the intelligence of most automotive writers. Dumb as dirt comes to mind.
The automotive press is not impressed with the new Corolla.
I agree with this next quote.
In all, the new Corolla offers the type of improvements that usually come with a mid-cycle refreshening, and it’s hard to see why this car wasn’t ready for the market two years ago.
OH no do I have to do this all over again?
quote Wards
Certainly the move to offer a 4-speed automatic in all but the uppermost trim, while the Civic has moved up to a standard 5-speed automatic, is at the very least embarrassing.
OK valid criticism. But for the target demographic does it really matter? Not really but it's good for discussion. What really will be disconcerting to the alleged experts are sales that outpace even the icons of this segment. The common refrain will be ...
'What is it with the American buying public? Don't they realize that the Corolla is maybe 4th or 5th in terms of performance, handling, interior niceties. I just don't get it.'
Well there's a hint right there.
In the end it's only about money. Nothing more. The one that makes the most is the winner. Everything else is just beauty pagaenty.
I dunno why Toyota can't seem to design its electric power steering to have any road feel at all, and the decision to give the Matrix XRS the indy rear but not the Corolla XRS seems expressly made to increase future Matrix sales at the expense of the Corolla...
The LE gets power locks but only the XLE gets standard remote entry? It is these types of decisions that make it seem like Toyota is really cheaping out in a few areas where it doesn't save much money but which are sure obvious to the consumer.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Fair enough.
But we now get five years with this new model. Do you really think that four years from now this will be in the top 2 for compact sales?
It does have segment-leading fuel economy going for it, I was much gratified to see. I would assume emissions are at least ULEV or lower as well. It would be nice if they have certified at least the 2.4L models as PZEV/SULEV just like the Camrys with the same engine.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And for those that may be superficially aware of these discussions this is not a big issue at all. 'I had a Corolla 23 yrs ago and it lasted me forever. I'm getting my [child] one as a gift going away to college. I don't want anything in it except the safety features.' multiply times 50,000. 100,000?
Toyota expects this Gen10 to surpass the Camry and become the No 1 selling auto in NA!!! Wanna bet against Toyota's Marketing infor and savvy?
OK now view this in terms of fuel being $5 or $6 or $7 per gallon over the next 5 years. If fuel is going to be horrendously expensive what are consumers going to want to do to keep the total cost of transportation as low as possible? Buy smaller vehicles and more basic smaller vehicles.
As unlucky as they were with the timing of the Tundra launch right in the midst of skyrocketing oil prices, tensions in the MidEast, an incresingly worthless US$ and the housing market falling flat the timing of this Gen10 is very very fortunate. It will debut just before gas prices head for the land of $5 per gallon in the spring.
Myself, my own sources, and those sources whose words I can corroborate. And if I cannot corroborate what I am hearing, I always qualify what I say with phrases like "my guess is," or "While I cannot confirm."
Wards was, in part, rehashing what had been said in other places many months ago. That is why it is old bad news. First, the story is old. Second, Wards either did not know or intentionally ignored the fact that it was old. And the third and worst: The story of Toyota being shocked by the Civic (and the drawing board mumbo-jumbo) isn't true.
But if I were to run Toyota whose pursuits are to give the highest return to its shareholders/stakeholders and to keep as many people employed as possible, I would stick to the Corolla formula for all eternity. If I could make a car that is dependable, efficient, drives reasonably well, and makes me and my company a lot of money with customers returning to my company over and over, and if I could keep selling such a car for 30 years straight, I would deserve to be ousted as a member of the management if I did not keep on building that car.
Trust me: If it were that easy to create, assemble, and make huge money with a "boring" car that has the attributes of the Corolla, every manfuacturer would be doing it. As I said many posts above, it is a piece of cake to give a car many gears or pistons and/or horsepower or whatever like that. It's making money year in and year out that is hard. As far as I can see, the Corolla is the closest thing in manufacturing to a tree that grows money, and Toyota knows how to take care of this tree.
On the subject of auto magazines, i.e. Car & Driver, Motortrend, etc what they have to say is pretty irrelevant. They obviously favor super high end cars that most people cannot afford. I wish there was an auto magazine that strictly focused on cars that the average, regular consumer buys and likes. Lets eliminate all the dream car crap. Lets get back to basics. Most people who are looking for cars in the compact class are not looking for super stylish cars. To me the newer Civic looks gimicky and I will not age very well.
It is my firm belief that the all new 2009 10th gen Corolla will be another resounding success for Toyota!
On the highway it feels like the transmission, although in drive, was left in an intermediate ratio. It sounds like the engine wants to be shifted up, except there’s nothing more up to shift up to.
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/ToyotaCorolla/Index2009.htm
Remember, most people here are enthusiasts - in the real world, these people are too small a % for Toyota to worry about, which is why the Corolla does so well. Corolla has never been liked on Edmunds, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, etc.
Brakes? I don't remember the specifics, but can someone provide the Civic braking distance vs. the '09 Corolla? I would bet the Corolla is about the same.
Corolla did not become a best seller with second class technology, features and six year model cycles.
When VW is introducing 7 speed DSG for it's Golf, Civic has a 5 speed auto, Mazda3 has a 5 speed auto, Sentra has CVT, Rabbit has 6 speed automatic then I'm of the opinion that Toyota is losing it's Toyota mojo.
It's starting to sound like a GM excuse topic here with all the reasons justifying the Corolla's shortcomings.
quote TCC-
(Note: rear drum brakes cost less and work fine on a car of this size, since the fronts do most of the work anyway, but domestic makers get roundly trashed car reviewers for using them. Ditto for four-speed automatics.)
We found the lesser models just okay. Their interiors are cheaper than expected. Their performance is adequate with five-speed manual, less so with automatic. Their ride is good and their handling typical, better than previous rent-a-car Corollas -- due largely to their two-inch wider front and 2.9-inch wider rear tracks -- but not up to best-in-class. -end
Not quite best in class, Is this the future that will keep the Toyota juggernaut rolling?
Oh that was before oil hit $100 per barrel. That was based on fuel being bought at $60-$70 per barrel. So if the generous oil companies are having to pay $100 per bbl do you seriously think gas and diesel are going to stay at 'only' $2.90? Do you think that the generous oil companies are just going to absorb the price increases in the market in order to hold the prices where they are. If so dream on. However if you don't plan on it hitting $4.00+ in the Spring and $5.00 in CA then you're deluding yourself.
Just don't be shocked. ( Oh while you're hiding from the boogeyman don't even consider $6.00 by 2010 ).
Yes they are probably mandatory for the enthusiasts. All 14 of them.
Why is it that even with 'really old technology' in the current Gen9 Corolla none of the sexy newcomers can stop the Corolla onslaught. The Civic is closest but it hasn't seen the Corolla's headleamps in 3 years. HINT: the bulk of the market just doesn't care.
I will admit this though as more and more people drop off their larger vehicles as fuel prices escalate in search for more fuel efficient options, these new buyers may demand more performance and handling. They may not be so enamored of the Corolla. The torquey 2.4L with the 5 Spd is an attempt to get a look from these buyers. BTW this current 2AZ-FE is not long for this world. There is something new coming, probably with Valvematic, but it's not been announced.
..No damn power windows or locks I can do that myself;
..I only want a heater and AC, I never use the radio anyway;
..'Why do I have to pay for these mats? They only get nasty and dirty anyway.'
This is not true for all buyers of course but it's a lot. Outside of power locks most parents buying a Corolla for their college-bound child don't want anything flashy either ( nor can they afford it usually ). 4 doors, 4 wheels, a Toyota engine and no additional costs for the next 10 yrs, that's all we want. For the bulk of their volume Toyota is not appealing to the upscale enthusiast. They are appealing to the mundane appliance buyer. The others are welcome to the rest. Why is that so difficult to take in. These are two radically different parts of the same segment.
Toyota wants the low-price low-cost high-volume business. The others do not.
The people who buy Corollas are wanting Toyota reliability and believe me they won't take a loaded Hyundai over the Corolla. Heck neither would i. My wife is actually interested in this car among a few others and it's as reliable as a Brick!
It does the job with no fanfare and it does it getting good economy for a low cost. Fun? No way! But back when my kids were young this was the sort of car I had to drive as 3 kids take up a lot of space. I had to get a huge wagon and a Minivan but now I want performance. My wife wants a reliable car that doesn't ever break down and won't break the bank when she fill is up.
Cars on her list are in no particular order are
Toyota Corolla (base model)
Scion xD (base model)
Honda Fit (Sport model)
Honda Civic (LE trim level)
Subaru Impreza (base model)
Ideally she wants a MINI Cooper but the dealer is too far away and it's hard to take a day out of work to get an oil change.
The pattern here is small and efficient and at the latter end cute.
Me I'm buying a Mazdaspeed 3. She likes being a passenger in my current WRX but dislikes driving a car with so much power and poor fuel economy.
The Corolla is a hard car to say no to as a first or second car. Too land for me but The Civic is pretty much of the list as she can't see the nose or the tail of the car in fact neither can I.
So out of all those cars The 2 Toyotas stand the best chance of being purchased. Most cars like the Corolla appeal to people like her. For her the Fit is a thrill ride. :surprise:
I predict the Corolla will not be knocked off it's perch anytime in the next 10 years and I just hope they make it available in a diesel version!
Obviously, reliability is not her top priority or she would not be considering a Mini. She will be at the Mini dealer for a lot more than just oil changes.