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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • roxy11roxy11 Member Posts: 27
    "With the Civic and Mazda3 (and some others you didn't mention like Spectra, Rabbit, Impreza) you get a nicer place to spend time driving."

    id agree on the rabbit and impreza (cant comment on the spectra)

    comparing a base corolla (or le-same interior look as base)and base civic (dx):

    i would not want to spend any time in the civic dx. there was no radio, and there is no a/c on the dx.
    the civic does have less cheap looking plastic. however, the whole dash area was hideous to my eyes. the plastic is so expansive from driver to the base of the winshield. i felt like i had a plastic picnic table in front of me. the digital speedo gauge was gimicky and i doubt it will reoccur in the next civic. additionally, they didnt even bother putting any fabric on the doors. just pure plastic. the whole experience made me feel like i was in a tupperware coffin.

    i found the elantra dashboard to look too much like a 2007 aveo and not far off the ford focus. it looks old and outdated. its really hard to try to integrate the head unit to make it really look like an integral, flush part of the dash. and the elantra and aveo pulled off more of a fisher price toy kind of vibe. the focus pulls off this feat a little better. lest you think im being hard on the elantra, the comparison to the aveo was pointed out in not only a civic forum, but was made in a vw and mazda forum during my searches for info on various cars. for me, the corolla offers a simple, nice looking layout. i do agree that the plastic used in the civic looks better, though.

    http://autos.yahoo.com/hyundai_elantra_gls-slideshow/;_ylt=AhWN8osIDNHj5bU3dR7EF- w7JhYt4;_ylv=3?tab=gen&i=inctrdash

    http://autos.yahoo.com/2007_chevrolet_aveo_lt_4_door-slideshow/;_ylt=AhWN8osIDNH- j5bU3dR7EFw59l84F;_ylv=3?tab=gen&i=inctrdash
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I sat in all the cars you discussed this past Saturday. Personally I see zero resemblence between the Elantra's dash and the new Focus' dash. The Focus' dash (and this was on a car that was nearly $21k MSRP) was by far the cheapest looking and feeling dash (also door panels) I've experienced in a long time in this class. I see a little resemblence in the contours of the lower center binnacle on the Aveo and Elantra, but that's it. Otherwise I see huge differences between the two. But people see what they see, and sometimes what they expect to see. I happen to like the Elantra's dash very much. You like the Corolla's better. It shows Toyota is hitting the buttons of some prospective buyers. But try this before you buy: try working the controls of the car. Do you get plasticky thunking sounds, or smooth, damped snicks? Do you grip rubberized, soft-touch knobs, or hard plastic ones? Does the plastic look rich and feel rich to the touch, or does it look kind of shiny and is it rock hard?

    btw, I think the Civic LX and above has cloth on the doors. In fact, it was the Corolla's doors that reminded me of tupperware (thanks for the comparison, I was trying to put my finger on it). As for the digital speedo in the Civic, it seemed odd to be the first time I drove it, but after renting one for a few days it became second nature. I think the styling of the Civic's interior is more out-there than cars like the Corolla, but at least it's made of quality materials and is interesting.
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    I'm wondering why anyone would buy the Corolla over the Civic? I checked the specs of each (especially comparing the XRS to the Civic Si sedan, the latter which I own) and there's no comparison, as no matter which Corolla model you buy, you're always down on power compared to the Civic (and the lower final drive of the Civic negates the lower torque ratings). You don't get four wheel discs except on the XRS and many other features that the Civic has standard cost extra on the Corolla. For example, loading up the XRS to be competitive on features with the Si brings the price up to being more than that of the Si and you're still down around 40hp and don't have independent rear suspension or a sixth gear and the fuel economy is only 1mpg better. I guess you do get the least offensive looking Toyota car for that money, along with Bluetooth and heated mirrors - BFD.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    The Civic Si is better for speed than the Corolla XRS, so if you are using your car for street racing, the Civic will win vs a Corolla.
    But for people looking at LEs and XLE vs the LX and EX, some people will prefer the quietness of the Corolla or maybe the just want VSC without needing to get the Si.
    You can also get the nice JBL stereo with bluetooth on the Corolla.

    If the 2009 Civics LX and EX get VSC, then that will one less reason to get the Corolla.
  • jilliewjilliew Member Posts: 48
    I was delighted to get my '09 Corolla XLE, plastic and all. Personally I don't think it looks cheap'
    .
    Just the standard stuff that comes with the XLE is totally amazing and options already on the car were VSC, Cruise Control, JBL pkg, 8 Speakers with XM radio and Bluetooth, Alloy Wheels and the front,rear and cargo carpet for $18,700 and $20,300 out the door. I love answering my phone from the steering wheel and controlling my audio from there also. Best toy I've had in a long time. I love the body style, the ride is comfy, the car handles well and is very quiet. A couple of times I caught myself cruising at 80 without realizing it. 10 airbags make me feel real safe. No squeekers or rattles yet. And who is going to complain about the mileage. That's a real plus.

    I bought my Subaru Outback in '97 for $21,400 OTD. It had a couple of rattles when I bought it and they got fixed and never came back. When I got the Corolla I sold the Outback for $6k. It looked brand new. I'm banking on the Corolla lasting me just as long and staying in as good condition.. I'm nice to my cars.

    Did I get everything I wanted? Well, just about. No fog lights but I'll spring for them. Heated side mirrors would have been nice, but I'll live without crying. I think I got excellent value for my $$$ and I'm a happy camper. In June I'm driving from CA to Yellowstone. I intend to take two days. That should be the ultimate comfort test. I'll let you all know if I needed a chiropractor afterwards. LOL :D
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Don't get me wrong, there are +/- to both, which we should not discuss here, but Toyota obviously has a money printing machine with the Corolla model. From a business prospective, they do all the right things, but not for "enthusiasts".

    I can think of many reasons, and lots of other people can too. Don't forget that the Corolla has been beating the Civic in sales for years and years, including the last year. Beating the newer Civic with a 6-year-old model? Wow.

    I predict the new '09 Corolla will continue to be a success for Toyota and the small car of choice for most people. The only real negatives of the '03-08 was the lack of standard ABS and side air bags, which the new one has, and the driving position for some. Again, that is fixed too. It is quieter and larger, and has great low end torque for around town.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I'm glad you like your new XLE, but fyi it has 6 airbags, not 10. No car that I know of has 10 airbags. A few have 8, and the Camry has 7, but it's rare to have more than 6.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    When you think about the disparity between the Toyota and Honda dealer networks and production capacities, and also looking at fleet sales and the fact that Toyota includes the Matrix with Corolla sales figures, I don't think it's worth much bragging to say that the Corolla beat out the Civic in sales last year--and not by that big a margin.

    The fact that the 2009 Corolla now matches its key competitors in offering six airbags and standard ABS, and finally has a tolerable driving position for more drivers, also isn't worth bragging about for a new 2009 design, IMO. Quieter is nice, and maybe some folks will buy a Corolla vs. the likes of the Civic just because of that, but I didn't notice much if any increase in usable passenger space, especially rear leg room. The trunk is large for a compact, however.
  • roxy11roxy11 Member Posts: 27
    "I don't think it's worth much bragging to say that the Corolla beat out the Civic in sales last year--and not by that big a margin. "

    the corolla in 2007 does have more fleet sales than the civic, but still still sold retail almost the same amount with a 6 year old platform that every one and his brother called old, outdated, tired, boring etc...over the new and improved civic.

    you would think that the civic would have crushed the corolla in sales, at least for the last year run of the 9th gen corolla. yes, matrix sales are included, but even without those its still a valid point.

    you can bet that if a 6 year old hyundai platform kept pace in sales with a brand new honda or toyota platform, backy would have been screaming from the rooftops to let us know about it.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    you can bet that if a 6 year old hyundai platform kept pace in sales with a brand new honda or toyota platform, backy would have been screaming from the rooftops to let us know about it.

    The only people I see screaming from the rooftops here are Toyota employees who rave about all the positive aspects of the Corolla and quickly shove aside any not-so-great aspects. ;)

    But since you mentioned it, the six-year-old 2006 Elantra did pretty well in sales, competing against the all-new 2006 Civic. And personally I would take my 2004 Elantra GT any day or night of the week (and twice on Sunday) compared to the 2009 Corolla. Not bad for a car designed in the 1990s.

    Unfortunately for Toyota, the 2007-8 Elantra is a much better car than its previous generation. If the likes of Hyundai can make a car like that, I don't know why Toyota has so much trouble making a compact with a pleasant and roomy interior. It's not rocket science, and they obviously know how to do it (cf. Avalon).
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    All that you noted above is testament to great marketing. I've said here before that IMO Toyota's real strength is marketing. It's first and foremost a manufacturing company ( in general ) that nearly every other manufacturer would like to emulate. But IMO its real strength is marketing, which it does far better than any other vehicle maker. Essentially it sells the hell out of vanilla and it confounds the purists and annoys the engineering specialists ( Honda, BMW, VW ). These vehicles just shouldn't sell as well as they do.

    As shown by Lexus, the RAV, the RX300, the Prius, HSD, GR engines, Tacoma, HiLux and Tundra when it chooses it can be cutting edge but usually it chooses not to be. Note though that a lot of those cutting edge successes are the result of ultra-sharp marketing and manufacturing.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Again it's a simple business decision. There is a price for each trim level. Exceed that price and you risk being ignored. This is not a luxo-segment where a few thousand +/- are inconsequential. This econo-segment values every $500 of pricing differential.

    You are right that every vehicle could be as nice as an Avalon or Lexus but at what cost?

    You rest all your arguments on 'See what Hyundai/Kia can do for much much less money.' You are right...for the moment.

    But as you've seen I'm sure Hyundai is just about fed up with the US market and what they have to do to buy into it. The Sonata is no longer at any discount to the Camry, it's actually more expensive. Now there's a tough sale.

    Then there's this..pretty amazing and funny too ( in a vicious way admittedly ).
    From Business Week online...
    My Way or the Highway at Hyundai

    "It marked the fourth shakeup in three years for Kia's American operation. The U.S. unit of Hyundai, meanwhile, has churned through four top executives in five years. Many of the departures have come at awkward times. Hunt and Beavis got the news at the airport as they were about to fly from Irvine to an annual dealer meeting in San Francisco. According to several sources, Hunt's predecessor, Peter Butterfield, was dismissed during a dinner meeting with dealers at the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas—between the entrée and dessert. The companies declined to comment on any of these executive departures. "

    [ Mr Butterfield, excellent choice for dinner. You're fired. Now what's for dessert. ]

    The Elantra and the Sonata are very good cars, probably near or at the top of each segment but they don't sell anywhere near as well as they should even with massive discounts 'til now. Make each of them priced as they should from a content pov and they may tank even further. OTOH the stigma of being 'discounted' and 'second-rate' might disappear with more correctly priced trims and sales might grow. We shall see.

    In general this segment is going to be redhot in the coming years and all producers should be able to sell out as fuel heads toward $10 a gallon. I'm in the middle of a two step project to compare the 2003 vs 2007 sales of all the major makers to see how the public has reacted to fuel increases.
    Step 1 is done in that the 6 major BOF makers ( GM/F/C/T/N/I ) have collectively lost 1 million annual buyers.
    Where did these 1 million buyers go? To more efficient vehicles certainly but which ones?
    Step 2 which models have benefitted the most by this seachange in the US public's buying trend?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You are right that every vehicle could be as nice as an Avalon or Lexus but at what cost?

    That's not what I said. I said that Toyota has the ability to make a car with a nice interior, for example the Avalon. I don't think that every car has to have an interior as nice as an Avalon or Lexus, and certainly not cars in this class. But how about wanting the interior of the 2009 Corolla to be as nice as others in this class, e.g. Civic, Elantra, Impreza, Jetta/Rabbit, Mazda3, Spectra. Is that asking too much? By your reckoning, I guess it is.

    The Sonata is no longer at any discount to the Camry, it's actually more expensive.

    That is absolutely false and you know it, or at least you should know it, since you are in the car sales business. Do you give these kinds of false statements to your customers, too? Maybe you should take a few minutes and do a little research, maybe right here at Edmunds.com, and compare the MSRPs of the 2009 Camry and Sonata. To be fair, you might want to add the options to the Camry that make it more comparable to the Sonata (e.g., VSC across the board, plus rear spoiler on SE, plus leather on the XLE). But try it both ways, with and without add-ons on the Camry, and let us know what you find out.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    if we could talk about the new Corolla here and take these other conversations to more appropriate discussions...
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    That's not what I said. I said that Toyota has the ability to make a car with a nice interior, for example the Avalon.

    Yes of course they have the ability but at what cost? Again it's a matter of cost and price. They obviously chose one specific route.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    that people will notice, and cost-cutting they won't. When Toyota is saving $50 per car by doing the kind people DO notice, the obvious question becomes, why don't they go that last $50?

    There will be rebates on the '09 by summer, and they will total a whole lot more than that $50.

    The domestics have been guilty of cheapo interiors for a long time, and have deserved the criticism they received for it. Toyota has not yet gotten down to the level of GM ten years ago, but GM is presently headed up, while Toyota still seems to be headed down. They seem to be passing each other as we speak.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • cubssoxscubssoxs Member Posts: 139
    Hey, is it worth it to spend the extra money and get the xrs model. I mean what is the difference between the two models. I know u get the 17 inch tires and the more powerful 2.4L engine. Has anyone test drove the xrs model? How does it feel compared to the S model?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    09 Corolla Review Truth About Cars
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Personally, I'd go for a Camry (with the same powertrain as the XRS) vs. an XRS, talking only of Toyotas here. The price would probably not be much different, and the Camry is a lot more car for the money--and the fuel economy is not much worse.
  • jilliewjilliew Member Posts: 48
    Driver front airbag and front passenger airbag with Advanced Airbag System standard

    Driver and front passenger front seat-mounted side airbags and front and rear side curtain airbags standard

    Active headrests

    Maybe they were counting the active headrests. There's a lot of airbags there. ;)
  • irismgirismg Member Posts: 345
    An $18,000 car had better have POWER windows, but that's MY opinion. I hate the pricing on the new Corolla.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Personally, I'd go for a Camry (with the same powertrain as the XRS) vs. an XRS, talking only of Toyotas here. The price would probably not be much different, and the Camry is a lot more car for the money--and the fuel economy is not much worse.

    I'm going to guess that the XRS will be a small volume primarily intended for those that really want the XRS. For example at some time in the future I could see maybe 60 Camry's in stock, +100 enroute, along with two XRS's.

    Features for $$
    Corolla XRS, cloth, JBL+BT+XM, SR, VSC, AW = $23500
    Camry LE, cloth, JBL+BT ( XM extra ), SR, VSC, AW = $25500

    Your statement above probably makes Toyota Marketing smile. The whole idea is one supports the other. The Corolla is not the equal to the Camry and never has been. It's always been the good soldier that watches the Camry's back. Both vehicles have a lot of features but $2000 is $2000. That of itself may appeal to some buyers. The smaller size may as well. The lighter weight may make the XRS more appealing to some than the heavier, larger LE. OTOH the Camry is the primary focus of Toyota in NA. Mission accomplished. ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    When I speak of price, I am speaking of the price to be paid, not the list price.

    For example, in my town I see ads every weekend for 2008 Camry LE and 2008 Corolla LE leases--for exactly the same terms. Right now, discounts/rebates on the Camry are more than they are for the 2009 Corolla. So I think the out-the-door price of a Camry vs. a Corolla XLE would be a lot closer than $2000 apart.

    And I was trying to be nice and restrict my response to alternative Toyotas, instead of the Corolla XRS. We all know there's other alternatives out there. (I wonder if that statement will make Toyota Marketing smile too?)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Welcome to 2008 / 09. Some of the other models listed are even more basic, the DX Civic has no AC at all - unless you pay for it. Most of the others listed also don't have ABS or Side / Curtain airbags - unless you pay for it. And none except the Civic gets within 8-10% of the fuel economy of the Corolla.

    There is always the very nicely equipped Yaris and others like it which are well under $16000.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Different markets again.

    You may be seeing the last of the 2008 blowouts being advertised but our 2008's have been gone since President's Day W/E. All we have are 2009's, none of which have any rebates.

    The MSRP to MSRP comparo is valid because as you say the transaction price is what really matters and for the 09s the customer will have to same opportunity to beat down the price. For a buyer who wants all the features listed but doesn't want to pay $25500 or even $23500 for a Camry there is always the XRS Corolla @ $23000. OTOH for a buyer who loves the features, where $23500- $24500 is a fair range but he/she really needs the larger vehicle there's always the Camry. This gives a $4000 window of opportunity for buyers to get the options that they want.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    And none except the Civic gets within 8-10% of the fuel economy of the Corolla.

    This is the 2nd time you've made this mis-statement. Other compacts that have a FE difference of less than 8% compared to the 2009 Corolla (based on EPA combined FE numbers) are Elantra, Focus, and Sentra (all with base engines and automatics or CVT). There may be others, but I didn't check all of them.

    (P.S. I couldn't find the EPA FE numbers for the 2009 Corolla 1.8L AT at fueleconomy.gov and couldn't find its EPA combined FE number anywhere, so I used 30 mpg, based on the 2008 Corolla having EPA numbers of 26/35 and 29 combined vs. the 2009's numbers of 27/35).
  • thaipthaip Member Posts: 32
    The Corolla LE costs $17100 + Tax, and it has power windows, locks, vsc, alloys, cruise, and even keyless entry. I just picked up my LE on Sunday. I agreed that its leg rooms in the back is a little tight, and the interior looks a little cheap. However, it is a good, in fact, excellent car for comuting to work! The power is adequate. I have no problem to get out or in of an exit. In fact, I feel it is even more powerful then the Camry Hybrid when I step on the gas pedal. The camry hybrid has 2.4 litter with believed to be 148 horses plus the electric motor about another 25 horses.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    2009: EPA is 27/35 for Corolla 1.8 auto, 26/35 for 1.8 manual, and 21/29 for the 2.4L.

    One wonders why anyone would pick the Corolla XRS over the Mazda3s or the Civic SI for the same money...in fact, depending on rebates and such, the Corolla might actually cost MORE than those two until Mazda revises the 3.

    However if what you want is the big-engined version of a quiet cruiser, the Corolla XRS might be just the ticket. There will be a few buyers like that, I know, but I can understand why Toyota is limiting production to 2% of the total.

    The dealer that I first spoke to about their XRS has yet to receive a second one since they sold the one they had. That's at least two weeks ago.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Thanks, I was using the 1.8L AT numbers since they are the best case for the 2009 Corolla, but what is weird is that I can't find the combined EPA FE number anyplace. So I used 30, which I thought was pretty close given the 2008 Corolla AT has a 29 combined number with 26/35 for city/highway.

    However if what you want is the big-engined version of a quiet cruiser, the Corolla XRS might be just the ticket.

    Well... call me weird but since I know where I can get a car that has a lot more power, better fuel economy, much larger and classier interior, a smooth and quiet ride, all at a lower price than the XRS, I won't be going to the box office for that XRS ticket anytime soon. ;) But I can see why Toyota is limiting the XRS to about 2% of the total. Who is going to buy one? Someone who wants a compact-sized car that costs as much or more than some mid-sized cars that trump it in performance, equal or beat it in FE, and blow it away on comfort? I guess there are some people out there like that. Just not very many, by Toyota's admission.
  • bits4brainsbits4brains Member Posts: 11
    However if what you want is the big-engined version of a quiet cruiser, the Corolla XRS might be just the ticket.

    I've actually been watching for previous generation XRS models with the 6-speed and always wondered if they wouldn't give the economy of the base engine if driven conservatively... most of the time.

    Anyway, I'm getting an '09 S model. I'd be all over the XRS, except for gas prices. I love sleepers. The XRS badging gives it away, but an LE or an XLE with the 2.4 and a stick would be my ultimate choice. Eliminating fuel economy from the decision tree, I'd take the larger engine option on any car every time.

    But, I'm shooting for 40 MPG (despite the EPA's new numbers). I'll actually be a bit surprised if the XRS doesn't have real world economy closer to 35 MPG. My old '93 Camry's 2.2 with an AT still cranks out 31+ MPG. I'd think the XRS with a stick and the slightly larger 2.4 would do at least as well.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    OK to be precise... Of the vehicles listed none except the Civic come within 7.4% City and 5.4% Highway, with some of them well over 10% worse in fuel economy.

    Corolla.... 27 C / 35 H .... Segment leader in fuel economy
    Civic....... 25 / 36 .... - 7.4% / + 2.9% than the Corolla
    Sentra.... 25 / 33 .... - 7.4% / - 5.7% than the Corolla
    Maz3..... 23 / 31 .... -14.8% / -11.4% than the Corolla
    Elantra... 25 / 33 .... - 7.4% / - 5.7% than the Corolla
    Focus.... 24 / 33 .... -11.1% / - 5.7% than the Corolla
    Cobalt.... 22 / 31 ..... -18.5% / -11.4 % than the Corolla
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    The car is driven conservatively during the EPA tests and it doesn't get the same EPA ratings.
    There is no reason for the EPA tests to have been biased against the XRS when it was tested exactly the same as the 1.8s were.
  • bits4brainsbits4brains Member Posts: 11
    The car is driven conservatively during the EPA tests and it doesn't get the same EPA ratings.
    There is no reason for the EPA tests to have been biased against the XRS when it was tested exactly the same as the 1.8s were.

    I wasn't saying that the EPA tests are biased against the XRS or that there was any difference in how the two engines were tested.

    What I was saying was that the EPA's testing system changed for the 2008 model year. The EPA estimates for the '08 Corolla are lower than they were for the '07 model and it's exactly the same engine.

    I would personally expect to beat the EPA estimates obtained with the new method with either engine. I hope to see 40 MPG on highway runs in my '09 Corolla with the 1.8. I'm guessing that 35 MPG isn't out of the question with the 2.4 if one isn't punchy with the right foot. :)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "Well... call me weird but since I know where I can get a car that has a lot more power, better fuel economy, much larger and classier interior, a smooth and quiet ride, all at a lower price than the XRS, I won't be going to the box office for that XRS ticket anytime soon"

    Backy, I suspect you are referring to the Sonata, but then you are talking about a bigger clumsier car with another 300 pounds on it, just like the Camry LE is. The people I am referring to, the folks who want the big-engined version of the Corolla, PREFER either the smaller size or the lower weight of the Corolla with that big engine.

    Obviously, if they also want superlative handling and responsive steering, not to mention a nicer interior, they have the Mazda3s to turn to....or the Civic SI....or heck the GTI at this pricetag.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    The engine in the 09 is NOT the same as the one in the 08. EPA testing is now more real world driving than before. There's nothing conservative about it.
    Mack
  • bits4brainsbits4brains Member Posts: 11
    The engine in the 09 is NOT the same as the one in the 08. EPA testing is now more real world driving than before. There's nothing conservative about it.

    I know the 09 engine isn't the same. I know the EPA testing has changed and that it's generally lowered the reported averages of everything. On an anecdotal basis, I've seen reports that real world averages are probably going to be better than the "new" EPA estimates. So, I still expect fuel economy of the '09 1.8 to be comparable to the fuel economy of the previous generation 1.8 in the Corolla.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, there are many excellent alternatives to the XRS at its price levels. Some are about the same size/weight as the XRS, some are larger.

    But since I haven't driven the Sonata SE yet or the XRS for that matter, I hesitate to say one is "clumsier" than the other.

    And the GTI is not a lightweight car...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Corolla.... 27 C / 35 H .... Segment leader in fuel economy

    Actually, it looks like the Corolla is tied for segment leadership in FE with the Versa CVT (both at 27 mpg), and the Civic is the segment leader in highway FE (36 mpg vs. 25 for Corolla). Still, fuel economy is perhaps the Corolla 1.8's biggest plus--along with the quiet interior and big trunk for this class.
  • roxy11roxy11 Member Posts: 27
    versa w/cvt epa is 27/33
    corolla epa is 27/35
    civic at epa is 25/36

    corolla is tied on city, better on highway than versa, so not really a tie overall.
    corolla is 2 mpg better than civic in city, 1 less on highway, so a tie at best or maybe edge to corolla.

    of course theres epa and there is real world. the nissan versa is struggling in real world mpg, much like the dodge caliber(no surprise there).

    i can honestly say, of any corolla owner i know personally(total of 6 people-no not a huge sample) none of them fails to achieve the OLD epa estimates of 30/38 auto (4 of them) and 32/41 w/the manual.(2 people). this doesnt include myself. i generally got 38-42 with 65-75% hwy driving with an 05 manual.

    maybe its all in my head, but many honda and toyota drivers have always seemed to exceed the old epa numbers, so for us the new epa numbers are laughable. im going to be patient on the 09 corolla though, as it is heavier and the engine is a bit different. i will not purchase one until i see a good sampling of real word numbers, particularly with the manual.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Right, I meant to say "city" wrt the Versa being tied with the Corolla. Thanks for the catch.
  • lls57lls57 Member Posts: 57
    I've got just over 1,000 miles on my 09 Corolla, mostly city (suburb) driving. I'm getting 32 mpg (calculated) so far, so I'm pleased.
  • thaipthaip Member Posts: 32
    I just picked up my Corolla LE on Sunday. I drove for 250 miles and I only needed like over a little bit of 7 gallons. That is approx 36 miles per gallon. I am happy with it on the first trip out of the dealer.

    Normally, the mpg will improve after like 1000 miles on the car. That was exactly what happened to my 07 Camry Hybrid. Therefore, I hope it will do the same for my Corolla?
  • thaipthaip Member Posts: 32
    The one thing I don't like about the 09 Corolla is its brakes. When you are braking it, it feels like you have to press it all the way down to the floor! What is up with that Corolla? Anyway, overall, I love my corolla LE

    Second, if you purchased your car from other state with a temp tag and when you go to register it in your own state, which milage will the DMV record for your title? Is it the number of miles stated on the bill of sale or the actual milage on the Odommeter?

    thanks
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Miles on bill of sale. I have done the same thing.
  • thaipthaip Member Posts: 32
    thanks mcdawqq

    that what I thought also, but just want to be sure. Logically speaking, it should be the miles on the bill of sale. You could say that your car got shipped over:):).
  • thaipthaip Member Posts: 32
    thanks,

    did you have to wait something call the "certificate of origin" or the title that send to you from the dealer before you can go to the DMV to do your registration? If you did, then how long does your dealer take to send out the certificate of origin to you? My was fritzmall and they said that it going to take 10 to 14 days.
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    They may be beating it in sales, but every comparison of the old Corolla and the current or even the last gen Civic, pretty much put it last or nearly last with regard to its driving dynamics. Persons buying the Corolla probably view driving as a chore and buy cars like appliances.

    I should also note, as others have, that Toyota has a much larger fleet presence than Honda, which I can attest to, seeing businesses and rental companies use the Corolla. Conversely, my local commuter airport uses the Civic as a security car, which may be the first Civic I've ever seen in commercial use (I do see Elements used for delivery vehicles). This tells me that there may be more people who, when spending their own money choose the Civic. Ford, with the Taurus, was for years America's best selling car, and that surely wasn't because it was the best car or that more people choose it for a POV - it was all about how many rental companies, businesses, and government agencies bought a domestic vehicle for fleet use.

    I'm not trying to be too critical of the Corolla and think it would be a good vehicle if they dropped the price a couple thousand and/or put some more feature content into it. Toyota has for years traded off its name and its perceived reliability advantage, but I'm not even sure that exists anymore, with the faults Toyota has been having with its vehicles for the past five or so years. Honda is now pretty much confirmed to build a better car if Consumer Reports is to be believed and I wonder what that will spell for Toyota's small car sales dominance, even among appliance buyers.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I'd modify your evaluation in saying that the quality of the content of some of the features could be improved ( but again at what price ).

    However the actual content is far far far superior to any other Corolla ever put on the road here in the US. So that can't be a serious issue. There is no comparison between this Gen and any going before it. This one wins hands down.

    As to pricing. You suggest a price reduction of a 'couple of thousand'. HUH? It has as much or more than any of the other basic econo-cars and all of them are priced within $600 of each other ( link here )....excluding the Elantra for the time being. Why in the world would the vehicle with the most content and best fuel economy be priced $2000 lower than the others? Reality Check time here.

    One other HUGE factor that we 'know' but don't 'see', but which the vehicle makers know and see is that this subsegment of the market is on the verge of going through the roof. We 'know' that fuel is getting really expensive, we sense it every day. But beyond that it doesn't mean much...unless you're in the vehicle making / selling business and a HUGE tsunami of buyers is about to hit. With $4 fuel are buyers going to buy Tahoes and Sequoias or Prius' and Corollas ( and Civics, 3s, Elantras, Focuses, Sentras, Versas, Yaris', etc etc etc )? All these models should benefit handsomely.

    From direct experience buyers coming out of $38000 SUVs wanting a more efficient vehicle that gets better than 100% improvement in fuel economy are not going to quibble over $200 or $400 one way or another. That amount is meaningless.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    However the actual content is far far far superior to any other Corolla ever put on the road here in the US. So that can't be a serious issue.

    I have to disagree with that as a general statement. IMO the interior of the last gen Corolla was superior to that of the 2009 model. In terms of powertrain, I don't see any big advantage that the 2009 1.8L has over the 2008 powertrain except for a few more ponies, which are used up by the extra weight. The 2009 does have more standard safety features (finally!) and some options the 2008 didn't have such as Bluetooth and factory nav, but as you like to say, at what cost?

    Why in the world would the vehicle with the most content and best fuel economy be priced $2000 lower than the others?

    Most content? Hardly. "Best" fuel economy? Not quite. Tied in city mpg with the Versa (at a considerably lower price) and bested in highway mpg by the Civic. But as you say, the Corolla will probably sell in big numbers if only because of its high fuel economy--coupled with the Toyota logo on the trunk.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Yes, I had to wait about 10 days for mine before I could go to the BMV.
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