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Comments
As long as so many people buy Corollas no matter how cheap the interior materials are, we deserve whatever we get.
6 airbags standard ..iso 2
Plus...
Active head restraints
AUX input
Tilt and telescoping SW
More comfortable seating
Smoother quieter engine
Better fuel economy
More room inside
Larger trunk.
Then...
There's all the additonal features that could be added that were never available on any Corolla in the past.
All your efforts to minimize the current Gen just are not going to hold up under scrutiny ..except maybe...maybe... the touchy feelie aspect. Give it a rest.
The Elantra and Sonata are good vehicles too. The Corolla will succeed despite your protestations.
BTW from www.fueleconomy.gov
Versa CVT 27 / 33 / 29
Versa 4AT 24 / 32 / 27
Corolla 4AT 27 / 35 / 30? It remains the leader
The added content also puts the others in the class under pressure to keep up and maintain profitability. That's not an easy task for any of the manufacturers. Luckily Toyota and Honda have huge volumes but not so much the others.
The 2009 Corolla is only a few hundred dollars more than the rest of the competing 2008's now being sold but it has more features with some exceptions. Now the rest of the pack has to somehow find a way to add the additional features and keep the pricing in line and keep profitability up.....and try to stay within striking distance of the Corolla in fuel economy.
Then there's Quality, Dependability and Reliability that the others need to overcome. There are literally millions of deeply satisfied Corolla / former Corolla owners out there for whom this current model is superior to any Corolla they've ever owned.
I see you are looking at FE differently now though. Yesterday you touted the city and highway EPA figures of the Corolla and declared it the FE leader. Since that turns out not to be true, you're looking at the composite FE number--which to my knowledge isn't published for the Corolla yet. At best it's 1-2 mpg better than several other cars in its class. But it's a new design, the newest in the class, with an all-new engine. And the best it could do is 2 mpg more than a tired old iron-block engine from one competitor, and 1 mpg better than the more powerful engine in the Civic. And that's the new Corolla's BEST feature. :surprise:
Lest you think I am trying to "minimize the current Gen" Corolla, that's not it at all. I am trying to bring some reality into these discussions, so that we don't just hear from people like you who make their living selling Corollas and other Toyotas. If you think my opinions are extreme, go take a look at third-party reviews, like the one that was posted here the other day. You'll see some common themes.
The added content also puts the others in the class under pressure to keep up and maintain profitability.
More like the other way around, isn't it? It's clear that adding more features and maintaining profitability was a strain on Toyota, otherwise I expect we'd see a much nicer interior, maybe an independent rear suspension, maybe a 5AT and a few other things offered by its competitors. It's not like the Corolla was a leader in adding features like 6 airbags, active head restraints, standard ABS, larger interior (but not close to being the largest in its class, and still with a tight back seat), aux input, telescopic steering wheel, a smooth / quiet / fuel efficient engine, and even features like Bluetooth and nav. Corolla is playing catch-up in all those areas. But is still behind others in the class in availability of ESC, interior room, interior quality, driving position, handling, braking, powertrain (power, transmission), and features for the dollar. So it's not just the "touchy feelie" aspect.
I know that you'd prefer that everyone get in line and sing the praises of the new Corolla without a discouraging word (skies are not cloudy all day and all that), as you do, but for those of us who don't sell Corollas for a living, including the automotive press, that's hard to do in the cold light of day.
I did notice that the armrest was a little tough, but getting back into my 15-year-old Camry with the armrest with the rip in it from my elbow it occurs to me that making the armrest of sturdier stuff might not be a bad idea in a car that I plan to drive 15 years / 250k+ miles.
Maybe I just don't get it. :confuse:
I don't care much about the top of the dash and door panels, but parts you need to touch and lean on should be padded.
Hard plastic dash and door pieces are also much more likely to rattle and buzz down the road,
I recognize that it's personal but the Prius just fits better...and at 35,000 mi annually it's important. That's why I don't put that much consideration to the 'hard surface' arguments. I want content plus back/butt comfort.
A corollary to the hard surfaces issue are controls that look and/or feel cheap. Again, that may not be an issue for you or others. But since smooth, rich-feeling controls, e.g. HVAC dials or buttons, are now the norm in this class, it too is not something I am willing to deal with.
I want content plus back/butt comfort too. I have it in my current compact car, which was designed in the 1990s and built in 2003, and I don't see any reason not to expect it in my next car.
backy, you cant turn the versa and civic into one car to beat the corollas mpg numbers. the corolla beats the versa since they are tied in city and corolla beats it on hwy. the corolla is 2 mpg better than civic in city but only 1 less on hwy, so in my view that would favor the corolla.
there is no such car in the class that ties the corolla in city (versa ) and beats the corolla on highway (civic)
so, in backy's world, the corolla is not the leader in fuel efficiency. the fuel efficiency leader is:
the VERVIC
If you look at the composite EPA ratings, assuming it's 30 for the Corolla 1.8 AT (do we really know yet?), then the Corolla edges out the Civic by 1 mpg there and some others such as Focus, Elantra, and Sentra by 2 mpg (and I noted that earlier). It gets dicier though when you say, as kdhspyder originally did, that the Corolla is the fuel economy champ because it gets 27 in the city and 35 on the highway. Then it depends on whether city or highway driving is more important to you. If you drive more on the highway than the city, then that would favor the Civic, and the converse would favor the Corolla.
Fuel efficiency is clearly a strength of the Corolla, I don't think anyone disputes that. Does it have enough of an advantage there to outweigh its shortcomings? Everyone has to make his/her own decision on that one.
What are the torque ratings? You cannot just look at horsepower.
For now, the new Corolla has either class-leading fuel economy or maybe it is a draw. I say for now because the new Valvematic engine designs from Toyota are coming very soon. So even if the new Corolla just ties the other efficiency leaders, you can bet that in a few years Toyota can drop one of these new engines in and either beat or tie any other manufacturers' newest models. Just a thought...
Another thought... Toyota had six years to develop the new 1.8L engine that went into the 2009 Corolla. But, what is its fuel economy compared to that of the 2003-8 Corolla? Just 1 mpg better in the city, and the same on the highway. There's a little more weight on the 2009 Corolla vs. 2008, but... 1 mpg in six years? Then there's the issue of cost. Maybe the Valvematic won't make it into the Corolla in the U.S. because Toyota's accountants will figure out it will take some of their profits away.
Re torque, since you asked:
2009 Corolla 1.8L: 132 hp, 128 lb-ft torque
2008 Civic 1.8L: 140 hp, 128 lb-ft torque
2008 Elantra (with the ancient iron-block engine): 138 hp, 136 lb-ft torque
Does anybody have experience with this alarm and if so, would you recommend it.
backy anybody who has been on this forum more than once knows your feelings about Toyota. You have the worst case of " beating a dead horse syndrome" I have ever seen. :P
By the way I am retired from Ford and never worked for Toyota.
Would posts that continually talk about how perfect the new Corolla is and note that its faults aren't relevant also constitute "beating a dead horse"?
Would continually berating posters who happen to have a not-all-positive view of the 2009 Corolla constitute "beating a dead horse"?
In case you haven't noticed (maybe because you're too busy jumping on people who are actually discussing the Corolla vs. contributing to the discussion?), I've said many positive things about the new Corolla here, multiple times. I've talked about its quiet ride, its improved driving position, its roomier interior, its large trunk, its fuel economy, the availability of upscale features like Bluetooth and nav, and its improved standard safety features. Maybe I should stop talking about those positive aspects of the Corolla, though, before someone tells me I am beating a dead horse. :confuse:
Amen, brother!
Here's Backy and jaxs fighting the almighty Mackabee:
BTW... how are the new Corollas selling? Similar rate to the 2008s? Better? Worse? I am curious as to whether the lack of incentives is hurting sales of the new models, since people might have been getting used to the discounts/rebates on the last generation.
As someone who will be in the market for two economy cars this year for my graduating girls, the information in this particular forum is what I'm looking for since one prefers the Elantra and the other likes the Corolla and Civic.
So guys, please keep up the different points of view...I'm finding it immensely valuable!
The Sandman
Mack
Folks didn't watch the Super Bowl or read car mags in your part of the world, huh? :surprise: Maybe they are too busy cutting/pasting automated widgets onto web pages?
But maybe another Toyota sales rep can answer my specific question,i.e. how sales of the 2009 Corolla compare to sales of the 2008 model?
Seems to me it's a bit early to try to compare the sales, and I'm not sure what point that would make anyway. The 09 has just hit the streets and the 08 was the last of its generation. It's two or so months into the sales year of the new generation. I can't see how it matters how those sales compare to the last year of the old one. Let it go.
TO ALL: It is past time to drop the petty bickering in here and move on. Now, please.
Actually, I doubt very much that the typical Corolla buyers read any of the "enthusiast" mags like CarandDriver, or Motor Trend etc. AND if they watched the super bowl they probably were too excited about the game then the commercial.
And to answer your question since spidey has not piped in, it's way too early to compare. We are just getting inventory in. We now have 10 Corollas on the lot. 6 came in today. Once we have 100 or 200 hundred on the lot as we've had with the past generation then we will know.
Mack
Actually, I doubt very much that the typical Corolla buyers read any of the "enthusiast" mags like CarandDriver, or Motor Trend etc. AND if they watched the super bowl they probably were too excited about the game then the commercial.
And to answer your question since spidey has not piped in, it's way too early to compare. We are just getting inventory in. We now have 10 Corollas on the lot. 6 came in today. Once we have 100 or 200 hundred on the lot as we've had with the past generation then we will know.
Mack
P.S. this one's for you!
P.S. In addition to TV ads and magazine ads and Internet ads, I've seen billboards in some cities (I travel a lot). But maybe the Corolla ad campaign isn't fully ramped up yet.
On a different note, I parked an white S in between the two Camrys in the Camry line and it's amazing how it looks like the SE Camry. People not familiar with the new Corolla could easily mistake it for a Camry.
I also drove it for a few minutes and did my usual test of the VSC on a cul-de-sac with no traffic. I just turn the wheel and start doing donuts with the pedal to the metal. The VSC light flashes rapidly and the beep sings loudly too! Works as advertised. You should see some of my clients face when I do this. I do tell them in advance so that they don't soil their pants. It's a lot of fun and it shows the customer the safety of this feature.
Mack :shades:
Yes inventory is just beginning to ramp up. We've got 10 'in stock' of which 3 are in the process of being delivered. 40+ in the near future pipeline. This is a normal suppy IMO. Mack?
Mack
Peace!<-AladdinSane-<- :shades: -
But these innovations are still in the early stages and much must be learned from real-world reactions. The ECTi and ETCi and EPS and VVTi all need to be perfected model by model. I can see where there might be an artificial resistance programmed into certain vehicles to simulate hydraulic/mechanical steering whereas others such as the plush cruisers and basic commuters might just be left as-is.
After all the Corolla is basically a $17000 appliance to get from A to B, safely, time after time after time.
* "Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) with Traction Control (TRAC) is a new feature" for 2009. I thought VSC was available on the previous-gen Corolla?
* "A new 158-horsepower DOHC 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine is available for the 2009 model." Isn't the 2.4L engine carryover from the Camry et. al.?
* "All-new 2009 Toyota Corolla and Matrix will be the first Toyota brand vehicles to offer XM Radio as a factory-equipped feature." Really? Other Toyotas e.g. Avalon, Sienna, Camry didn't offer XM radio before the Corolla did? I find it hard to believe Toyota would be so late to the game with XM radio.
Yes, the 2.4l engine is the Camry's but it's new to the Corolla.
VSC and leather were available in the last generation. Trying to find one was another story.
:shades: Mack
XM radio is a new factory installed feature on Corollas with JBL stereo. On other Toyotas, XM is dealer installed.
I am really surprised there was no Toyota before the 2009 Corolla to offer factory XM radio. :surprise:
-Cj
I would like to get BRIDGESTONE TURANSA SERENITY OR MICHELIN HARMONY and would like to know if it is possible to negotiate this change with the dealership after the Purchase Agreement was sign. I don't mind to pay the difference in price. Is it possible to do it? Does anybody has experience in tnis matter? I will appreciate any advice.
Mack
Mack
Bob