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Comments
If the dealer won't do a direct swap of the tires (e.g. maybe they don't have the ones you want in stock), maybe you could ask them what kind of credit they would give you for the four Turanza OEM tires. Then you could go out and get the replacement tires yourself at a tire shop (probably at a much lower price than what the dealer would charge for them), get the credit for the OEM tires from the dealer, and if you ask real nice maybe they'd put the new tires on for you at delivery. And if that doesn't work, you could go to a tire shop and ask them what kind of trade in they'd give you for four Turanza EL 400s with a handful of miles on them.
bob.
That's why I'm disappointed that Toyota didn't offer the 3ZR-FAE Valvematic engine rated at around 155 bhp on the new Corolla models in the USA. With this engine and a new 5AT transmission, the new Corolla could have been a SERIOUS contender against the Honda Civic EX sedan.
Mack
He is not sure how that would be handled and advised talk to the Parts/Service manager or sell OEM tires on- line. Actually, I would call it upgrading in quality, but not in price. According to my servey Turanza EL 400 cost $10.00 more than Michellin Primacy MXV4 and $23.00 more than Michelin Harmony/each. Today I sent e-mail to the General Manager and waiting for his responce.
\Mack.
I looked at the Elantra and was amazed at all the options and standard equipment you get for thousands less than the Corolla.
I drove a Sonata today to go back to the Toyota store and it felt like a cross between an Accord and a Camry but with better interior materials. The engine was not as smooth as the Camry but I could live with it.
The Veracruz blew me away! Double stitching on the leather seats, vents all the way around for passengers, etc,
The Santa Fe also impressed me and I would probably take either of those two over a RAV4 or Highlander.
The prices blew me away also and they have some pretty hefty rebates to go along.
I ended up selling her a Santa Fe which was $31,919 or so less the discount and less rebate came out to $27,400.00 plus ttl. She could have had the Veracruz for $77 more. I would have taken the Veracruz. They were both 07 models but since she's keeping the vehicle until the wheels fall off she was very happy with it. If this keeps up I might be selling Hyundai vehicles soon.
Mack
Personally, both are great cars but neither would get my money.
-Cj
Has this problem ever been corrected yet?
The Sandman :confuse:
Mack
With an answer like that, I doubt we'll be looking at the Corolla when we need to buy two cars within the next year. And people let you get away with answers like that? Sheesh!
The Sandman :confuse:
The feel of the pedal in Toyotas may suck, but it's usually Honda, believe it or not, with the worst stopping distances.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Dumbest post I have seen on this forum He's a Salesmen Dude! Not a spokesperson or a engineer for Toyota
Mack
Why on earth has Edmunds gotten so nasty lately...never was this way in the old days. But I guess the internet lets jerky folks say stuff that most won't say face to face. Unbelievable!
Guess it's definitely time to look else where for a nicer exchange of ideas.
Honda is ready with A-VTEC when Toyota comes out with Valvematic, but odds are good Honda will offer theirs first.
Substantially BETTER than Corolla in braking are Rabbit, SX4 Sport, Toyota Corp's own Scion xD, Astra XR, and Lancer GTS, with the xD leading the pack. It also has the weight advantage in this group, which I am sure contributes to its great braking.
Unfortunately, after falling to third in a previous comparo, the Civic was not included in the group. I bet it would have had crappy braking performance too.
Apart from that, the Corolla got pretty good overall marks in the test, ranking third and almost tied for second with the new Impreza. And it did lead the group in fuel economy, using 14% less gas than the group average. The reviewers REALLY disliked the xD and the Focus.
Edit....just looked up the Civic's braking performance on C&D's website, and it is as I thought - crappy. 191 feet, very similar to the Corolla's results in this month's comparo.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I thought the C/D comparison was an interesting one, though its obvious that comparable trim levels are becoming increasingly difficult for the magazines to find in the Press Fleets of the manufacturers, as evidenced by this very basic Corolla Standard entry.
I think perhaps a more appropriate competitor (features-wise, I recognize there are no engine or suspension differences) would have been a Corolla S 5MT with VSC, which would have offered 16-inch wheels and tires, and I wonder how that would have impacted braking distance and adhesion measures. I don't think a Corolla S would have changed the vehicle's 3rd of 8 ranking, overall, I'm just interested on how tires affect these two items.
Also, it will be interesting to see the braking distances of the Corolla LE 4A that Consumer Reports is currently testing.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/news/2008/04/2009-toyota-coroll- - a-first-drive-4-08/overview/toyota-corolla-first-drive.htm
just $.02
I, like you, took note of the fact that the Corolla was one of the cheapest cars in the test, in large part because they had gotten a stripped base model rather than higher-trim versions as they had with most of the other models in the test.
The Civic I mentioned that needed 191 feet to stop from 70 was the LX, so it has the larger 205 mm tires that upper-trim Civics (excepting SI) have. While the wider tires of a Corolla S may have improved stopping distances for the current C&D comparo, its value quotient would have dropped in the rankings due to higher price with little in the way of additional substantive equipment, and of course plenty of people in the real world will have to live with the smaller tires of the lesser-trim Corollas. It is worth mentioning that if you're not buying a hybrid or a Lexus, the factory tires on brand new Toyotas these days are getting cheaper and cheaper, another cost-cutting move that is beginning to stand out.
I would say that given the prices of the '09s, the only ones that are a good value are the stripped models. I do remember thinking that for $16K sticker (and therefore $14-15K real world price before too much longer, if not already), it was decently equipped given the standard safety equipment. The $20K XLEs and S's, by contrast, seem less of a bargain - very little beyond plastic tack-ons is added for the price, cruise is still optional all the way up the range, as is keyless entry in some cases, and the 1.8 auto is still a 4-speed. For a sticker of $20K, there are way better options.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
However, you state "While the wider tires of a Corolla S may have improved stopping distances for the current C&D comparo, its value quotient would have dropped in the rankings due to higher price with little in the way of additional substantive equipment, and of course plenty of people in the real world will have to live with the smaller tires of the lesser-trim Corollas. "
Your statement regarding value quotient makes some assumptions, as your definition of "substative" may differ from that of the the editors at C/D. My personal feeling is that had C/D tested a Corolla S 5MT with a middle-of -the road option package and VSC (at about $18,500), both the Features and Pricing scoring categories would have been adjusted accordingly, and therefore not resulted in a different overall ranking for the vehicle. Certainly, the Corolla, like many Toyotas and vehicles from other manufacturers, can become pricey with options, so I def. hear you on that.
So they might as well have included a MINI Cooper in the comparo, which would have given them the high fuel economy plus crisp handling, for about the same price as some other cars that were tested.
Including a Corolla S in the comparo makes so much sense, I expect what happened is that Toyota could not provide one from their test fleet when C/D wanted it.
I agree, also, on your assertion regarding the Corolla S - it seems that any press reviews of the Corolla S I've read (such as the Edmunds.com example), have been of full-dress, leather/NAV models, which would have been up above the 20K mark. That said, I can configure Corolla S 5MT with VSC, Pwr Pkg, heated mirrors, 6 CD, cruise, mats (but no alloys or spoiler) for $18,465 in my region.
IMO, the print mags are in a tough spot nowadays, both from the perspective of available fleets, but moreso, increasing time irrelevance... even though we receive May issues of C/D, MT, R&T, etc.. the last week in March, theres nothing we really haven't read on the internet already.
* The editors raved about how nice the Impreza's interior is and how mundane (but functional) the Corolla's is, yet they gave the Corolla more points on the interior than the Impreza.
* There was a lot of emphasis on making the 2009 Corolla quiet, but according to C/D's measurments the Corolla wasn't the quietest at idle, full throttle, or 70 mph cruise. I don't have the mag in front of me, but if I recall there were 2-3 cars ahead of the Corolla in some if not all 3 categories. Even though it's hard to tell a difference of a few decibels with the human ear, it was surprising to me that the new Corolla wasn't the quietest in the group.
* They apparently had no problem fitting even their 6'5" tester in the Corolla's back seat (they mentioned only that the front seat was tight for one of their tall testers). That amazes me, since I'm only 5'10" and felt cramped sitting behind myself.
That's why I'm really hoping that the Corolla gets the 3ZR-FAE Valvematic engine within the next 18 months mated to a 5AT transmission along with standard four-wheel disc brakes on their top-line model.
While I don't mind reading MT, I'd rather take C/D, which mixes subjective and objective measures and at least attempts a rational conversion into metrics (via its socring table), than MT which basically doesn't explain at all how they arrive at rankings.
Backy, I think what you've stated regarding sound is interesting, but not all that uncommon. The decibel measures of sound do not account for sound quality, and that may have influenced C/D's comments to some degree. For ex, I've read in a few places that the 1.8L in the Corolla is less "boomy" than in the past - a good thing. And honestly, even though theres a Subie in my family, you've got to be a fan to *like* how that engine sounds, especially with its Mack truck idle.
But then, C/D apparently doesn't care too much about how quiet a car is, if it handles well. They knocked the top two cars, Rabbit and Impreza, for their noise (tires and engine, respectively). They could make theri comparos much easier on themselves by doing them this way: "How's it handle? Great? OK, it's our top car. Now we'll need to flip some coins to figure out how all the other cars rank."
I wouldn't hold my breath for this one. It seems clear to me that Toyota is going to treat the Corolla as the el cheapo model in the Toyota lineup, giving it just enough not to be totally noncompetitive, and no more, even as they pile on the rebates and shoot for maximum sales volume.
And honestly I don't think sales will drop much under this philosophy. This is really the fault of consumers - I think these days customers expect too little of Corolla; as long as it has the Toyota name, is nice and cheap, and they can get moderately comfortable in it, they look no further.
There is a reason that C&D's two top picks, Rabbit and Impreza, struggle to sell what, 20K per year?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Car and Driver Short Article
I think that will start to hurt the Corolla's reputation for the new model, because let's face it: with the high price of motor fuel nowadays, American car buyers are getting into smaller cars and demanding more from a smaller car. (Why do you think the upcoming 2009 Honda Fit has a satellite navigation option?) As such, the Toyota Corolla needs to be more than just "basic transportation," something that is now filled by the Yaris entry model. That's why Toyota needs to upgrade their drivetrain to one powered by the 3ZR-FAE 2.0-liter I-4 Valvematic engine with the 5AT transmission currently used and maybe have Toyota Racing Development (TRD) develop a more proper "sporting" suspension.
It COULD be that we are on the verge of spiking compact car sales at the expense of the larger models, because of the gas prices. And IF that's the case, the folks downsizing could want more of the same features they are familiar with from their bigger cars, and I am sure Toyota will be only too happy to follow that gravy train. But spend money under the hood? I would be very surprised. Toyota knows Americans will settle for less.
Corolla IS cruising for a bruising if they continue to follow this philosophy through another model update. It is very similar to what happened when the Americans let the Japanese have the market for cars (not trucks) beginning in the 80s.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It only comes down to money. It's a business nothing more. It's not a beauty pagaent. The XRS is an ultra small volume trim in what is essentially a very very basic commuter / people mover. It's also no competition to the IS nor the 3-series or any other sport model just to complete the picture. Wasting more than a passing thought on it is a gross waste of time...and paper, in the case of the C&D article.
The simple answer is we in NA don't want our econo-boxes to have much content. Price if far far more important than either performance or content. We are much more willing to spend big bucks for midsized autos than for small autos. On the contrary in Europe and Japan they spend much more on their high volume small vehicles.
If we want our econo-boxes to be $18000 -$20000 then we get a decontented model. If we want to spend $25000-$30000 for a Civic, Corola or Jetta then we will get more content.
Then why does Toyota put options like high-zoot stereos, Bluetooth, navigation, and leather on the Corollla?
Personally I don't need any of that "content" in an economy car. What I want are basic things like a comfortable driving position, a nice-looking interior with quality surfaces and controls, a roomy back seat, a good blend of ride and handling, and as many safety features standard as possible, including ABS, side curtain airbags (with good crash test scores to boot), and ESC. And of course good fuel economy and reliability. The Corolla delivers on the last two very well (well, we'll see about reliabiilty but history is in its favor.) The others, not as well. How about more focus on the basics and less on the "flash"?
As for me, I'd rather the automakers focus on features like comfortable/adjustable driver's seats, roomy back seats, and crisp handling rather than fancy electronics that I can get elsewhere, for less money.
Automakers are just slow to adopt new things. It took years of customer pressure before GM finally relented and will start installing bluetooth on most of their vehicles next year instead of pointing to their fee-based OnStar service as the handsfree solution.
Automakers were slow to adopt CD players, so people had get third party changers until factory installed CD players became common. Then aux audio inputs were the next thing and now bluetooth.
There are still some new cars that don't even have an aux jack, but it has become expected at this point. Bluetooth will also be expected soon.
.
So what if it isn't "standard" on every car? The cheapest cars don't have a/c and cruise control standard, but it's an option. Cars as cheap as the Nissan Versa now offer factory bluetooth as an option.
I think automakers have their priorities skewed. But maybe it's not their fault. If buyers keep demanding electronic gizmo features like Bluetooth more than they do safety features, nice seats and controls, modern suspensions and accurate steering, etc., then whose fault is it? Not the automakers I guess. So we can get Bluetooth on the Corolla, whoopty-doo, but we have to rest our elbows on hard plastic and fight to get a comfy driving position. :confuse:
All '09 Corolla LE automatics, $1500 off MSRP (dealer discount) all in stock (about 70 cars between the 3).
All '09 Corolla XRS automatic in stock, $2000 off MSRP.
All '09 Corolla 5-speed base models in stock, MSRP $16,1, sale priced $14,448.
No factory rebates so far, but you know those aren't far away, maybe a couple of months.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)