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Comments
Launching mew models early in the year is pretty common these days. Toyota has done it, e.g. Camry and 2003 Corolla. DCX has done it, e.g. 2005 minivans. Hyundai has done it, e.g. 2006 Sonata.
Then there was
the 2004 Sienna in April 2003
the first Lexus 400h in April 2004
the first HH in May 2004
the 2007 Camry in March 2006
the 2007! Tundra this past Feb.
I think this gives them the spotlight alone rather than the maelstrom around Labor Day.
Anyone see the Fuse concept in 06, the concept( tC replacement?). It was RWD.
take care/not offense.
Regardless, I love the cluster!! That is TOTALLY the colors toyota uses in the Scions!!
Toyota may just be giving us the
-Cj
That is probably not the same car as the next Corolla for the US.
2nd Place is Ford F-150 Truck
and 3rd place the Ford T or Vokswaguen I dont remember
Regards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But I would like it even better if it were a 3-door rather than a coupe with a trunk.
Baby steps, baby steps...
:-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Same platform and powertrain under the skin, but there's lots of differentiation in suspension settings and body styles.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Japan Report: No Quelling Toyota AE86 Revival Rumors
Filed Under: Coupes, Sports/GTs, Toyota, History, Automotive News March 21st, 2007 3:28 PM
Rumors about a revival of that brilliant, rear-drive, lightweight Toyota Corolla Sport coupe that starred in the ‘80s continue to do make the rounds in Tokyo.
Known as the AE86, and sold in Japan variously as the Corolla Levin and Sprinter Trueno, it was also a hit in Europe as the Corolla GT and sold in North America as the Corolla Sport (in DX, SR5, and GT-S trims, respectively). It’s a car that’s still number one among the toge zoku, Japan’s late night mountain racing tribe thanks to a wonderful, willful chassis that was just born to powerslide.
Senior factions with Toyota have been keen to bring the car back, but the sales and marketing teams have so far torpedoed it because they can’t believe it would sell.
First, of course, Toyota would need a good Corolla-class, rear-drive chassis, but sadly, there aren’t too many of those to go around right now. But still, the speculation about a modern day AE86 just won’t go away
There is a market for it, but the market is too small to be cost effective or make any logical financial sense to Toyota.
One thing I hope Toyota fixes is that "mushy" brake feel. We had it on the four Toyota's that we owned and it pushed us to the competition. If that problem is resolved with this new model, I think the wife will look at the Corolla as a serious replacement in 2010 for her Mazda 3s.
I do like the "evolution" of the new Corolla though and I predict that it will be a big seller for Toyota. Hopefully they will give it some more upscale features like leather and a power drivers seat. Some of us really like this size car but would like some more creature comforts offered. And with gas prices being what they are, this could be a great marketing move. Are you listening Honda?
The Sandman
Put competitive standard safety gear and a comfortable driving position for most people in it, and I'll be pretty happy. I can live without leather and a power driver's seat in an economy car. No sense spending $20k for a Corolla with leather and power seats when that's getting into Prius territory (for economy) or several mid-sized cars (for comfort/room).
My comment about the Civic and the new Corolla was just an observation that Toyota must equip the car to keep it as close to the Civic in as many ways as possible. I'd bet that most people who look for a car in this class use these two as the benchmark when comparing all the other entries. Just looking at the sales figures tells me I'm right about this. They are the top best sellers after all.
The Sandman
Still I don't understand why Toyota introduced a hatchback and sedan version of the Yaris because IMO the 1.5L is too small for an automatic and I question if the two compete too much with each other while wondering how many buy a 4 door sedan with manual.
I'd like to see the new Corolla use a 2.0L, keep the tall/narrow shape, and come up with a design that doesn't copy the Yaris sedan/Camry (It's already hard at first glance to tell those apart, can you imagine how tight the market would be for a 3rd look alike?) And of course the distant steering wheel must go (redesign the air bag/seat belt if needed to get the desired crash rating).
The tall/narrow profile is most useful in town and increasely narrow parking spaces along with wider/older occupants. While marketing rarely looks to older customers, there are 8,000 people turning 60 everyday in the U.S. The current tall/narrow design makes access easier and improves visibility. Maintaining good fuel economy another important factor to this fastest growing market share as they look towards retirement with it's capped income.
My wish for a 2.0L engine is largely based on my experience with a 1989 2.0L Camry manual that averaged 35 mpg. That dual overhead cam was very smooth. With a somewhat lighter car and improvements in engineering a 2.0L Corolla should be able to meet or beat that 35 mpg. The 2.0L would put the Corolla right in the middle of the Yaris and Camry, give it a marketing edge over the Civic, and provide a performance boost.
Otherwise I'd beef up the feel of the car as more substantial (crash worthiness being a concern, but an emotional one that a solid/tight door slam would go a long way in convincing prospective buyers). Again, my 1989 Camry had the solid feel that communicates to the casual observer "you're not dealing with a tin can car".
My wish for the line-up would go like this:
CE - 5M, PW, PL, AM/FM/CD (the addition of PW & PL at this level would keep overall manufacturing cost lower)
LE - add 5A, remote locks, air, cruise
Beyond that I'm not sure. Let's be honest, this isn't a sporty car. (Toyota doesn't offer anything sporty, that's a different topic that they should address elsewhere.) And this isn't a luxury car either. (Price wise you're quickly bumping up into Camry range.) The lion's share of Corrolla sales have been CE and LE versions anyway.
I'm not too sure about this. Among retail sales, I am pretty sure the S is the most popular.
And I definitely want to see a 5-speed manual as the standard transmission for the next-gen S! I am hoping the next S has some actual suspension mods, maybe a bigger tire too, to go with the "sport" label. This would exactly follow the lead of the current, recently new Camry: the SE is lowered slightly, with different shock tuning, thicker sway bars, and extra chassis bracing, as well as bigger tires.
I agree that the next Corolla had better have standard power package (with keyless entry, it's expected now) across the board, and let's face it, it had better have six standard airbags and ABS like the Korean competition. With all that, it seems safe to say that is ALL the upgrades we will get in standard equipment for the CE. I am hoping the LE and S will have standard cruise - it has been standard on the Camry LE for the last 3 generations. It would be nice to see VSC standard on LE and S, or at least optional with wide stand-alone availability.
And they really oughtta make navigation optional, at least on LE, to keep up with the Civic (and the Mazda3).
I have decided that my next car will definitely have factory sat radio, so they had better think about making that option more widespread too! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My wife has a 06 Corolla S with that equipment on it now. Granted the airbags and moon roof were optional but everything else was standard. Toyota offered the XRS for 06. It came with a 5 speed manual transmission and a larger engine and I believe bigger tires. However it didn't go over very well and they discontinued it after only one model year. :shades:
l
But the Corolla S, like all the rest of the Corollas, does not have standard ABS. And extra airbags, traction, and stability control are also all available, but only as options, and traction control and VSC are very rare. (the XRS was discontinued after the '06 model year)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Precisely that is why they are called OPTIONS. My point was they are available now if you want them.
You can't really be that naive to expect a Toyota Corolla LE, Honda Civic LE or the low end Korean entries that sell for 14 or 15K to have all that equipment as standard and still sell for 14 or 15K.
You are correct it was a 6 speed transmission, not a 5 speed as I stated . However the XRS had the same engine as the Celeca GT and it was bigger in size and power.
Closer.
The XRS had the complete drivetrain (engine and 6-speed transmission) from the Celica GTS. This was a 1.8l unit (with a slightly larger bore and slightly shorter stroke than the 1.8l motor in the Celica GT) which was rated at 180hp in the Celica GTS and rated at 164 hp in the Corolla XRS (due to a slightly more restrictive exhaust and different SAE testing methodology for '06 resulting in slightly lower hp numbers).
I always thought it was an odd choice for a performance engine for the XRS. Torque wasn't much better than in other Corollas and there probably weren't too many Corolla drivers willing to keep the rpm's on the north side of 6k to actually use the additional hp. Personally, I think the 2.4l motor (base unit from the Camry) would have been better for a performance Corolla (probably also cheaper than the high strung Celica GTS drivetrain).
Although I'm sure that Corolla XRS drivers probably thought it was cooler sharing a drivetrain with a Lotus Elise rather than a base Camry..... :shades:
The new Elantra sells at $14,5 with all of that. The naive thinking would be imagining you COULDN'T have all that for $15 grand.
And I am with you on that one, rorr, the Camry's engine would be a much better choice for an XRS engine than the old 2ZZ from the Celica GTS, and I am soooo hoping they do exactly that with the next Corolla, offered in a new XRS trim. Alas, indications seem to be there will be no sport variant, at least not at launch. I wonder if the rumors of a sport 2-door model will prove true...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I prefer the Corolla shape factor (tall/narrow) for ease of access, parking, and visibility over the Civic.
The vast majority of Corolla I see on roads in the midwest are CE or LE. If someone wants a sport coupe, they should look for a car that is built as a sport coupe from the ground up, not a rebadged body with fancy wheels and adding a discontinued engine from another . As I mentioned above, this is a problem for Toyota in general (nothing close to a truly sporty design has been offered for years) and should be dealt with beyond the scope of Corolla.
I agree that most Americans are uncomfortable reving beyond 6,000 rpm to reach peak engine performance, especially if the engine gets noisy up there (like the current Corolla engine does).
IMO a Corolla represents a good compromise between bottom of the barrel economy and something nice enough that you don't have buyer's remorse for going too cheap while holding on the traditional Toyota values. This has been the inherent character of the Corolla for decades and I wouldn't mess with success.
The Koreans are quickly improving. Time will tell if their current offerings match Toyota/Honda for initial reliability. They are hungry, but like many overseas nameplates their dealership network (around here anyway) is their real weak link. Any time I've bought from a dealer where my brand is a sideline I've been treated as a second class citizen as they may only have a single (competent or not) mechanic. (Or maybe that's how domestics treat all their customers.)
Manufacturers can't just swap engines in and out of vehicles; there are dozens of considerations. For example - would the 2.4L fit in the Corolla's engine bay WITHOUT compromising crash-worthiness? What about the transmission choices for the Corolla? Would they be compatible with the Camry engine's torque? And production factors? How to get the Camry 2.4L -which isn't produced at NUMMI or in Canada- to the Corolla production lines?
This, in comparison to the Celica GTS engine, which was a modified version of the 1.8L in the Corolla to begin with, primary difference being variable valve timing and LIFT (hence the VVTL-i designation). That effectively solves every issue I just mentioned above.
From my understanding, the model was axed - in all forms (Corolla, Matrix, Vibe) due in part to sluggish sales, but also to less than impressive emissions results at a time when standards are being raised...
~alpha
Um, I think you just made my point.
Yes, from an engineering standpoint, it was certainly much EASIER (with less development cost) to use the GTS drivetrain. Problem though was that from a PERFORMANCE standpoint, that engine ONLY excels at the changeover point around 6k rpm up to the redline at 7800 rpm (or when bouncing it off the rev limiter at around 8200 rpm which I've done on a fairly regular basis in my GTS.)
The problem is a lack of grunt COUPLED WITH the fact that the 'typical' buyer of a 'performance' Corolla or Matrix simply doesn't see any real performance gain in everyday use. How many test-drivers (or salesmen) would be telling prospective buyers to keep the revs over 6k? That may be a selling point for a sporty coupe like the Celica, but didn't work so well with a 'family' car (and a HEAVIER car) like the Corolla or Matrix.
I love the drivetrain in my Celica; I love it's dual personality as it lunges for the stratosphere after I get over 6k. But I also realize that these are the sort of traits that would be a TURNOFF for a potential Corolla/Matrix buyer (even a performance-oriented one).
Personally, I think they should have either simply not DONE an XRS model, or bit the development bullet and gone the larger displacement/less high-strung route.
And the emissions of one of Toyota's smoggiest engines in years (the GTS engine) certainly played a large part in killing the XRS as emissions standards tightened again for '07.
I do want to chime in and agree with a couple of themes already mentioned - if you want a sporty car, you are better off going with a model designed from the ground up to be sporty, rather than a "spoiler special" like the XRS - borrowed parts and powertrain from another model, plunked down in a chassis never designed for that purpose.
And with the next Corolla, Toyota needs to REALLY be keeping a close eye on the Koreans. Their rep is improving practically by the day while their pricing remains lower than Toyota's, and 2 or 3 years from now when the next Corolla is mid-cycle, Toyota could be losing a lot of sales to Hyundai if the next-gen Corolla is not super-competitive.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Other points, as you mention, still stand. (I was just really getting at the fact that I don't think the Camry's 2.4L was ever even a real option).
Agreed re: the Koreans, although, if you ask me, there's a gap in the way they are marketing that hasn't yet translated into increased share. The capable Sonata has seen a sales dive since Hyundai eased up on the initial fleet push, and the new Elantra - while significantly improved and a vehicle I'd choose over the current generation (read: geriatric) Corolla - has barely stumbled out of the gates. The Genesis project is going to be really interesting; the Azera barely registers on the radar despite that it is a VERY impressive sedan. Moving into another price point presents an even greater challenge.
~alpha
This is a VERY hot segment right now, given fuel prices, and everyone from 20 year olds to 60 year olds are stakeholders.
For me, much closer to the 20 range, Toyota - between its 5 offerings of vehicles in the sub to compact range (incl. Scion) has not a SINGLE vehicle to compete with the Mazda 3's and Mitsu Lancers of the world. And damn, if the latter drives any where near as good as it looks on paper -from style to spec - it IS the car to beat in my book.
http://www.mitsubishicars.com/MMNA/jsp/lancer/08/trims.do?loc=en-us#trimsTab
Happily, with this vehicle and the new Outlander, Mitsu seems far from dead. IMO, bitchier, edgier styling than any Japanese counterpart too, including Nissan, which is winning praise for the dapper new Altima (but not so much for the chunky new Sentra).
If the Corolla grew to that size (96 ft3 vs current 91 ft3 and Camry at 102 ft3) and maintained its efficiency it could bring in a whole lot more potential buyers who want the efficiency, but think the current one is too small. After all the Yaris can occupy the small car niche.
As much as I would like Toyota to build a real Mazda3/Lancer GTS-killer, I just don't think it has any desire to do so. Comfy transpo with a bit of style and just enough features to satisfy is the formula for Corolla (that and class-leading fuel economy). My thinking is the next one had better be all that and go beyond "just enough" in the features category. I wouldn't mind seeing a "Camry SE" treatment for the next Corolla S, but I'm not sure how X-bracing that eliminates the fold-down rear seat would sell in a car like Corolla, what with its smaller trunk.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't see why Toyota can't launch something like a 4 door coupe under the Scion line to compete with the MZ3 and Lancer.
~alpha
Also Mazda3 is a tweener by ft3, though it does not really feel like in inside.
Based on their track record, Toyota may be interested in doing a 2 door coupe version of the Corolla, like Solara v. Camry, but it would use the same engine.
Until the Koreans develop a better dealer network Toyota and Honda have nothing to fear.
They come pretty darn close. The 2008 EPA combined FE rating for the Corolla is 29 mpg, and 28 for the Elantra and Sentra (all with automatic or CVT trannies, the most commonly purchased in the U.S.).
Try the [non-permissible content removed]-kicking new Altima on for size, even with the 4. I think that would be a good demonstration that CVTs are necessarily just suited to hybrids.
~alpha
The Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is the new king of the road and the most loaded compact cars, it's como with Satisfaction Garanty Certifiation this new car is the one Corolla has to deal... and ofeer a better design, more power, and affordable fuel efficiency and more toys in a regular package!!!!!!
I'm thining seriuosly to move to Lancer GTS, i am waiting the new corolla box to take a decision