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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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Comments

  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    They seemed to really like the car, and revealing a $70k starting price is good news to me, but they simply fell in love with the Self-Parking feature.

    And what's up with the last paragragh? That was horrible! What's that about? :sick:

    They basically reduced the car to this feature! That's as poor a synopsis as I've read in recent memory. Doesn't offer any real opinion. Doesn't even say a comparison test is warranted!

    It makes Team Europe's posts sound rational and factual! :mad:

    If all they'll do is print off of the press release, and then marginalize the car down to the newest feature, I need to get off these forums and help them write something worth reading, PRONTO! :sick:

    Very disappointing!

    DrFill
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "This reviewer lacks integrity."

    Maybe, but he's a Brit - and Japanese luxury cars don't do especially well there. He'd like a Jag better, count on it. From a "soul" perspective he could be right. Getting back home under your own power has some value too though. ;)
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    here

    202.8" for the LS460L. 18.0 cu ft trunk...meaning (if the GS is any guide) the LS600hL might be around 13 cu ft.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    The amazing thing is this:

    LS has improved: 53/47 for LS 430 to 52/48 LS 460

    S550 has deteriorated: 50/50 for S500 to 51/49 for S550.

    I have a lingering gut feeling that Lexus LS will be much better than S550 in every measure in unbiased hands and eyes.

    But due to extensive brainwashing S550 will be declared winner by many so called veterans and experts.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    S550 has slightly higher torque but LS has better power to weight ratio. In unbiased hands it will comfortably beat S550 or at the very least equal it.

    Lbs/hp for LS 460L: 4332/380 = 11.4
    S550 : 4465/382 = 11.69

    looking at gear ratios it looks like it is more well sorted than the big benz.
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Member Posts: 147
    I thought it was good review. They seemed very impressed with the car.

    If anyone wants me to post the full official Lexus press release from the 15th, let me know.
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I thought it was the most disappointing first drive I've ever seen from Edmunds as it was seriously lacking in substance. It seemed like a press release. I can only hope for better in the full test.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    In my experience many but certainly, not all, "first drives" are merely summaries of the car's appearance, exterior and interior statistics and accessories.
    They are really little more than "previews" and it would be a demonstration of integrity to call it what it really is.
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Member Posts: 147
    "First drives" usually lack substance in my opinion because they are drives during organized press conferences hosted by the car company. There isn't the ability to do good road testing, just perhaps a quick spin in the car.

    Its like sending the press to a taste of lexus event and then expecting them to give a detailed review of the car... not easy.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Obviously there will be all kinds of reviews of the '07 LS. Some will be more favorable than others and some will be more critical. Subjectivity and objectivity will vary.

    Reacting in an over-defensive manner reflects badly. Afterall, this new LS has strong legs to stand on, and in the end, no matter what the negatives might be, the '07 LS will still be the best LS ever made.

    The '07 LS will prove to be a terrific car and a great value, regardless of some of its inevitable weaknesses, which all cars have. IMO, it is mature to admit those weaknesses.

    As oac said, there is no perfect car . . . criticism is to be expected . . . and this is just the beginning. You ain't seen nothin yet! ;)

    TagMan
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    While I understand that this is a forum to discuss the new Lexus LS, your post makes it appear as if it is affiliated with Lexus in some way. Is the purpose to defend and support Lexus or to have open and honest discussions about it? If it's the former than, I'm out. If it's the latter, then let freedom of speech reign.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

    Criticism is good and healthy and to be expected. Those that over-react and get all excited and nasty everytime a negative word is said about the new LS are not being realistic.

    Expect the bad with the good, and deal with it.

    All views are valid, including yours (which BTW, I agree with many of your posts) . . . whether positive or negative.

    The point is to be able to handle ALL the views!

    Is that clearer?

    From a personal standpoint, I intend to be as FACTUAL as possible, and not be caught up in a lot of rhetoric.

    TagMan
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    Yes, I understand what you are saying. I just don't have any vested interest in any car company getting good reviews or poor ones. So I have no rooting interest here. Now if we are talking about the Mets, I have a different take!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Yes, I understand what you are saying. I just don't have any vested interest in any car company getting good reviews or poor ones.

    You and I are on the same page.

    well . . . except one little thing . . . go A's! ;)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    But due to extensive brainwashing S550 will be declared winner by many so called veterans and experts.

    :confuse: . . . uh oh, must be the brainwashing.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, Steve, you sure saw through that one!

    I was wondering how the Mercedes S Class got to be the number one high end luxury vehicle.

    It's the brainwashing. Never thought of that.

    :confuse: Huh???
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    "In 2005, Lexus sold 114 LS 430's in Canada, but MB sold 195 S-Class sedans, while BMW sold 189 7-Series.

    So far this year, the new S-Class is leaving everyone in the dust.

    The Lexus LS460 no longer blends into the background, but will luxury car drivers notice?"

    This is the key question asked by a reviewer from our Northern neighbor.

    Thus far the reviews of the 2007 Lexus LS430 have not been encouraging. :(
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Always seeing the glass half-empty when it comes to the LS... I am sure there were plenty of GOOD things said about the new LS in that article, but... oh well...

    These previews will eventually give way to real reviews, and ultimately the car itself gets here, and the general BUYING public gets their hands on them. And the general public gets to be the final arbiter of how this car will be perceived...

    I predict the new LS460 series will be the MOST successful LS ever produced. It has to be.... Its demographics demands what this car delivers... top-notch luxury, features, build quality, refinement, reliability and second-to-none customer service... Hence, no amount of negative press will stop this car from achieving its crown as the #1 selling full-size luxury sedan in America by 2007.

    At the end of the day, success in sales and public are what counts, not this individual subjective previews, reviews or debates and arguments on auto sites like this with its own biases.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    "At the end of the day, success in sales and public are what counts, not this individual subjective previews, reviews or debates and arguments on auto sites like this with its own biases."

    Does anyone really let a movie reviewers opinion determine whether or not they see a movie. The proof is always in the cash register. At the end of the day it's the sole arbiter and every critic or reviewers opinion (most of which is subjective to themselves) is rendered obsolete and useless.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Does anyone really let a movie reviewers opinion determine whether or not they see a movie.

    Darn. I was gonna say that. Absolutely true.

    The '07 LS is a shoe-in. Slam dunk if there ever was one. There's gonna be some criticisms of the brakes and handling, probably, but nothing to worry about. The self-parking feature will get a LOT of attention . . . too much probably. But in the end, it won't matter much, as you say . . . the "ch' ching" is what will count.

    I'm gone for about 10 days . . . squeeze a little more vacation out of the summer (need to get the brainwashing fixed ;) )

    Hope some great reviews come out while I'm gone, and hopefully the bull is still on a rampage.

    Take care,

    TagMan
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Now that the official specs are in for the LS460L, and we see that its length is indeed 202.8", does this make it more likely that the LS600hL will also be the same length? Or, is there still a chance that it will be up to 209 inches? I am betting that it will be exactly the same length as the LS460L.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Early specs said the same length. But I've read in places that it is 5" longer and they used those words rather than specified the exact length. Other places I've read that 209" number. Perhaps the battery requires a more stretched chassis to keep proportions the same as in the LS460L? Specs on the LS600HL on Lexus.com say 202.8". That's perfect for me so I hope it's right. I can't wait to get my hands on this hybrid.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    cyclone4, please update your profile with a valid e-mail address, or if it's valid, please contact me.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I will send you an email in a few minutes.

    EDIT: You should have received it about 12:45PM Central.
  • subarufan1subarufan1 Member Posts: 85
    how do you think sales of this car will pan out? will it advance the lexus brand to the next level or what?? i personally hope this finally establishes lexus on the same level as the top fleet bmw's and mercedes. :)
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    At the end of the day, success in sales and public are what counts, not this individual subjective previews, reviews or debates and arguments on auto sites like this with its own biases.

    But biased reviews, debates, brainwashing can psychologically influence a person's purchase decision. Media and magazine outlets are puppets in europe's hands. They influence the public by mind-control and programming.

    Already the attack has begun. Poor brakes, light steering, touchy-grabby, too-quiet and so and so.

    Not pretty like Audi A8 It seems like A8 with its huge nose like a trash can is prettier than LS!

    Not powerful like S550: Merely 2 hp less (382-380) caused so much anger that it made them to write, "not as powerful as S550"

    Not as good handling: Without honestly comparing head-to-head edmunds immediately jumped to declare LS as the looser!

    When mercedes makes a reliable car it is hailed as a "masterpiece of engineering". When lexus introduces LS it is "merely reliable".

    When mercedes makes a quiet car its hailed as a "masterpiece of engineering" but when LS does it even better, its called
    "too-quiet".

    So if you do well you are criticized and if you do badly then you are bashed. If this is not hate attack what is?
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    The movie example is misleading. You spend 7$ or 9$ not 70,000 $ on a movie.

    Despite a bad movie review risk can be taken.

    But a bad auto-review can brainwash you and influence your purchase decision. The stakes and the risk is much higher!
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Already the attack has begun. Poor brakes, light steering, touchy-grabby, too-quiet and so and so.

    Not pretty like Audi A8 It seems like A8 with its huge nose like a trash can is prettier than LS!

    Not powerful like S550: Merely 2 hp less (382-380) caused so much anger that it made them to write, "not as powerful as S550"

    Not as good handling: Without honestly comparing head-to-head edmunds immediately jumped to declare LS as the looser!

    When mercedes makes a reliable car it is hailed as a "masterpiece of engineering". When lexus introduces LS it is "merely reliable".


    All so true ! Its scary what is going on... Here is what I think. The "automotive press" doesn't want to be caught napping as they were in 1989 whent the first LS came out. This time they were determined to stick it to the new LS. What's not to *hate* about this new car ? Everything... It is a masterfully engineered product with many firsts... But the subtle and not-so subtle attacks have begun, as you so eloquently highlighted. I think that these are coordinated attacks meant to derail the car from its lofty perch.

    Recall how the new S550 was previewed and reviewed in very glowing terms... The new LS is a far better product (need I say that) and yet its the negatives (perceived or real) that's been the focus. It can park itself is all Edmund's had to say in positive tone. What the heck is that ? You have an 8-speed tranny mated to 380HP from a tiny 4.6L (almost a full liter less than its major competitor), it will also get to 60 in a hurry (at 5.4s comparable to its major competitor) and what do the previews state: it lacks low-end grunt... or lacks a V8 growl... How many cars in this class growls ???? Do buyers of high-end luxury SEDANS want their cars to growl ??? Isn't that what you'd want in a sporty, performance-tuned sports car, and not a full-size luxury sedan ? Sheesh ...

    In the final analysis, the LS will succeed bcos the clientele believes in the car's true mission and purpose. Did Lexus/Toyota not win 11 of 19 automotive awards from JDP recently ? That's the stuff that wins you buyers, not the crap these auto rags try to sell.
  • jiaminjiamin Member Posts: 556
    I test drove LS430 at Luxury Taste of Lexus in Alameda, CA a few year back. I know how good this car is. I am not buying any car now. However, I know that if one day I have enough money, and want a sedan, it'll most like be LS.

    BTW, one of my friend has an E320, maybe year 2000. It has had multiple failures. None of them was big but it was so inconvenient that he swears it is his first and last MB.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    I agree with you. Its a well-organized, well-funded, highly coordinated attack against Lexus. All the success LS has delivered is attacked and depicted as negatives.

    Efficient V8 is now lacking in grunts and growls
    Silence is now bad. When S550 had it, it was good.

    That day is not far when reliability will be considered a terrible thing just because Lexus has it.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Always seeing the glass half-empty when it comes to the LS... I am sure there were plenty of GOOD things said about the new LS in that article, but... oh well..."

    Ah, yes, our chilly friends to the north had only one complaint about the new LS - they said it's not as good as the German cars in the twisties. Otherwise, they couldn't say enough good about it.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    It has gotten where people mention reliability as an afterthought, when, in reality, It is THE most important feature a car can have. It means everything about the car is well made and put together the right way. It means the tolerances are lower. It is the flag or signal that this is a great car. It also means that you will get home at night.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    With back-to-back extended drives vs. the current LS430, and the S550.

    Anything else is way too subjective, and can become weighted down with preconceived notions and ignorance.

    DrFill
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    The engine is a delight. It will drive the LS460 from standstill to 100km/h in a sportscar-like 5.7 seconds and maintain the athletic character with a bolt from 80km/h-120km/h in just 4.7 seconds. Unusual for Lexus is the pleasing throaty burble allowed when the V8 is asked for a best-effort.

    link title
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Steve,

    It's not a war, it's just a defensive stance. There are a lot of people in this world that never want things to change. They just don't like it when the applecart is pushed over. These reviews are so predictable. You're going to continue to see reviews from Europe and England that are defensive and look to attack anything subjective. The moment you see that you throw the review in the toilet. In those cases the reviewer is giving you his pre-conceived opinion not an honest review. On top of that these reviewers - in most if not all cases - are looking for a sports car and want sport first and luxury second - if at all. The buyers want luxury first and adequate handling. If they wanted a sports car they'd be buying it instead. They are buying a lux car not a sports sedan. The reviewers understand that but they simply take it out of the equation when they write their review or drive the car. On top of all that few, IF ANY, of these guys can afford any of these cars. Don't know about you - but I don't take the advice, nor value the opinion very much of a person that can't afford what I am intending to buy - and that goes for houses, cars, boats. electronics, jewelry or anything else that is a big ticket item. I don't mean that to sound high and mighty. I mean it from an experience point of view. Behavioral patterns and tastes are much more similar along demographic profiles of people.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Great points Len, thanks. And we miss you over in you know where.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Len,

    It amazes me how some of these reviews focus on the "race track" worthiness of the LS. They cannot put it through their thick skulls (I'm sure it's deliberate) that as you state, this is first and foremost a luxury vehicle with the most incredible technology to date. It is not suppose to feel and drive like a Corvette.

    Having said all this, it will be interesting to see what some of the major American car magazines have to say about the LS460L in the next few weeks.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    The new LS460 spec mentions "SmartAccess with push-button start/stop". Does that mean that you can start the engine remotely from the key pod? Or does it just mean that instead of turning a key to start the engine, you just push a button on the dashboard? The former would be a very nice feature in hot places like Southern California, to start the air conditioner before you enter the car.
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I have to say that after reading the reviews to date, I don't see that it is negative in any way toward Lexus. Did they find some things to nit pick on, of course. That's their job. Do you expect them to say, "yep, it's perfect. End of review" ???
    This reminds me of the baseball announcer who gets accused of rooting for one team over another, by Both team"s fans! It's all how you take it. Seems to me they really like the car. I also think it's fine that MB and BMW go a different direction in what they emphasize since it gives us more choice in the type of ride we prefer. By the way, I saw the LS at the NY Auto show and I thought they did a great job with the design although it is a bit similar to the 7 series. I also saw the NY S550 at a dealer and it is quite a striking car as well. It seems like it's a good time to have 80-100 K burning a hole in your pocket for a lux car.
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    Is available now, mine has it, and it doesn't have a remote start feature that I know about. You just don't need a key out to get in or start it, as long as it's on you somewhere so it can be detected. It's kinda slick, but the remote start feature (that even Chevy has not, BTW) would be even better.
  • techman41973techman41973 Member Posts: 83
    With all this buildup, I am dying here.
    So when do we start seeing the US reviews for the LS460 and when are they in showrooms?
    Seriously though, in every car mag there is like 3 reviews of some new mercedes variant (AMG this, that). While we comparitively rarely hear about Lexus models. I wish there were more articles getting into the fine details of cars like the LS460 (especially the technology)
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I am going to guess its similar to what you have in the new IS/GS/ES... You still require to press the Start/Stop button, although you do NOT require to put a key into the ignition to start the car. It should just be on your body somewhere.
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I hope Lexus didn't err in putting too much hype in the new LS. They put themselves in a position where it seems to me that the car couldn't possibly live up to the anticipation.
    They claimed that it would be as big a breakthrough as the original. I'm from the school where it's better to under promise and over deliver.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    They meant that from an LS600HL standpoint and 430-450 horses with that mileage and the level of luxury that car will bring for $80-100K will indeed reset the rules.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Thanks Pat. The other place is not for me at the moment though. Besides the 4 or 5 Lexus posters who are mainly posting here are all determined buyers of the car so speculating the data and price with everyone pitching together to find out things in advance is fun.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I also think its just good marketing, really.... When you push a new product you gotta create a buzz around it. And if that gets people flocking to the dealerships, the better. Hopefully you get to close (sell) some of these and make money. That's the name of the game.... Everyone plays it, one way or another. Doesn't BMW market itself as the "ultimate in driving" ? but is BMW ultimate in driving ? Nope... No one has accused BMW of false advertising or over-promising...
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    From Thailand...

    http://bangkokpost.net/Motoring/18Aug2006_motor002.php

    A few quotes...

    "But the LS is arguably the best place to be in its class. It may sound a little too ambitious to liken the LS to the multi-million baht Maybach. But the truth is the LS seems to be the only model around that runs close to offering comfort levels of that Teutonic badge..."

    .....

    "Which brings us to the dynamic side of the LS. As mentioned earlier in the report, the other snag Lexus hopes to iron out is performance.

    "The new LS comes with a high-output 4.6-litre V8 to replace the 4.3 unit in the LS430 predecessor.....

    Push the starter button and you can now hear the engine at idle, particularly when standing outside the car. In the old LS, it was so quiet that you might have thought that the engine wasn't cranked yet.

    The 380hp V8 of the LS460 is also more audible on the move. In fact, it's nice to hear some bit of that V8, particularly when you drag the rev counter near the redline. To some extent, it sounds classically sporty like in BMW's V8.

    Is that to say that refinement has been lost? No, the engine sounds solid at every engine speed. Has the quietness disappeared? Yes, and we don't mind that at all and, more importantly, it never sounds disturbing but purposeful for driving spirit.

    You don't need to ask about the LS460's performance: there's plenty of punch even at less than half-throttle. I slammed the gas after crossing the border from Austria to Germany, and noted how aggressively power was amassed all the way up to its 250kph limit top end.

    The LS460 is a fine-performer, particularly when you consider that it needs high-displacement motors of the Merc S500 and Bee-em 750i to match the LS460's performance credentials on paper.

    As you can see on the dynamic highlights diagram, new technologies have enabled the LS460 to lay such claims."
  • jd14jd14 Member Posts: 128
    I was wondering if you or any of the others posting here have seen the video that Edmunds added to their first drive article on the 460. I would almost say that it praises the new LS as being one of the most well-rounded fullsize luxury sedans on the market. Especially in the last part of the video, where they state that "the 2007 Lexus LS460 once again proves that you can have it all." I thought that the video seemed like the exact opposite of the last paragraph of the review. Anyway, it seems that some good reviews of the LS460 are surfacing.
  • dc661dc661 Member Posts: 71
    Autoweek 8/21 issue has a review. Mostly positive. Of note is Autoweek's estimated base price of $59,000. AWD will be available on the LS460 in the future. Traction/Stability control can be completely turned off with a button.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I'm sure every auto mag review you'll see here in the states will be good to excellent. Think about it - do you want to turn off Toyota and it's money machine's ad dollars. You'd have to be suicidal. Europe is a different story as they don't want Toyota making the inroads it's already making in the first place. But here, even if a reviewer hates the car the mag will scrutinize the byline and turn all the words around. IMO - trust no reviewer's subjective opinion (especially for example ones like the one that said the car does everything you want it to very well but subjectively it lacks the sense of occassion. That's nothing but writer BS), read between the lines of what he or she writes to get the real story and go test drive the car and see for yourself how it feels when it's available. I have no doubt it will be fabulous and I've talked first hand with someone who's already driven the car in LWB and hybrid form. The latter got praised to the sky.

    Price - starting price of $59K or $60K is more like it but forget about seeing any cars at that pricepoint. It'll ship mostly with $65-67K MSRP in SWB with a certain package of options included in virtually every car - IMO.
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