Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

tagman · September 2006

Here's yet another review of the LS460 and LS460L:

link title

Clearly this reviewer prefers the long wheelbase version.

TagMan

ljflx · September 2006

OAC - again I wouldn't assume it's the sport touring version just because it had 19" wheels. Those can just as easily be an available option on the air suspension models. My feeling is this was an air susppension set on the sport mode.

Tag - lends crecedence to my belief that Lexus will underestimate demand for LWB cars in year one. Clearly this car was really set to be a LWB car and as we go thru it's multi-year production run I'll bet that we see fewer and fewer SWB cars made as the years go on. Problem is when I see stuff like this -

"But the reason that none of this is remarkable for 2007 is because one could essentially say the same for the LS from the prior year. Which leaves one to ask, what is the point of the 2007 LS 460 overhaul?"

- I know the reviewer has his/her head in the sand and I just dismiss the whole review as worthless. Do these writers really think people are that dumb or do they not realize how dumb they come across? There's no middleground in statements like that - it's either the writer is an idiot or we are. The other problem is the moment the reviewer goes right to converting customers as an issue you also know what's coming next. If it's a Lexus based reviewer the car will set the world afire and win converts galore and if it's the other way around the car is nothing special and no one will convert. It's getting worse and worse with many of these reviewers.

tagman · September 2006

The reviewer's personal bias against the standard wheelbase was evident.

You and I are already in agreement that Lexus has likely underestimated potential demand for the long wheelbase version, but when I consider that the vehicle price is still so important to the Lexus strategy, at least with regards to any significant volume in sales, it still makes sense that the short wheelbase may be the only open door for many LS buyers . . . and accomplish the sales numbers that Lexus is after.

TagMan

excelsior88 · September 2006

Some interesting discussion about the powertrain, audio system, other aspects of the design and manufacturing process...

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/090601.html

nvbanker · September 2006

And, it sure pays off, doesn't it?

ljflx · September 2006

So here you have a person that truly researched the car and puts out a fact sheet like that vs the the idiot that gave us nothing technical and just her pre-disposed negative opinion in the article Tagman linked earlier today. I don't really care if the someoone reviews and dislikes the LS460 or any car for that matter, but for crying out loud give us an honest to goodness rationale for it instead of the garbage she wrote.

cyclone4 · September 2006

I am in total agreement Len. It seems as if that reviewer (TagMan link) in a stupid sort of way, wants people to view her as a big shot car reviewer by writing ignorantly negative junk.

tagman · September 2006

Hey, I just posted the link . . . I didn't write the darned thing.

Seriously though, I try to read ALL the reviews I can, and take the bad with the good. Biased viewpoints as opposed to factual data are quite obvious. Opinions can be interesting and even enlightening at times, as we all know from posting to these forums, but extreme views and biases don't work for me.

And, the good news is that opinions don't change the facts anyway. They are just an interpretation of them. And sometimes, a twisted one.

I get a chuckle out of all this to be honest, because no matter what we all say, so much of the truth about all of these cars is fairly obvious anyway, at least that's my ever-so-humble opinion.

TagMan

ljflx · September 2006

"Hey, I just posted the link . . . I didn't write the darned thing."

Tag - Given the intelligence shown in so many of your posts, to say nothing of financial acumen or classiness, you wouldn't be able to fall to the level of intelligence that woman displayed even if someone pushed you down a dozen flights of stairs.

tagman · September 2006

oac · September 2006

That's as good a compliment I've heard yet... Good one, Tag. You must have made a great impression on Len, don't ya think ? Good thing you are on opposite coasts, eh ?

BTW, congrats on the A's winning the AL West... Maybe they'd kick the Yankees rear this year... No ? At least the Bay area has something to get them excited, instead of the pitiful Raiders

oac · September 2006

What an interesting article... I particularly liked the part about the new ML in the LS series... worth $176K if customized for the home... wow !!! And you get something that good in this car ? It is a MUST HAVE for me, doubtless. I am hoping Lexus includes the Touring Package with the SWB by mid year '07 or by start of MY'08. That would make my choice even better... I'd wait to get one late next year if need be...

'08 LS460 w/Comfort Package 1 + Touring Package (sport) + NL (ML/Nav), with an OTD at $72K.

OR

'08 550i w/SP sans i-Drive crap ! Yes you heard it here, again...

excelsior88 · September 2006

"It's as if they're selling an audio system and throwing in a car" -- LOL. The Mark Levinson audio in the LS 430 is already considered one of, if not the finest audio systems available in luxury vehicles today...who knows how much better the "Reference Surround Sound System" is...

Also noticed they used more engineers on the LS 460 than on the first gen LS 400...

Meanwhile, the pricing continues to elude us...

oac · September 2006

I found a copy of the Car mag from Japan I brought with me back in June, and in it, Lexus claimed the 600h will do 0 - 60 in under 5s. Until an IS500 or LF-A gets here in MY'09, it will appear that this big LS sedan will hold the title of the fastest Lexus.... :surprise: And this car gets official launch today in Paris, which means we should get official HP, MPG, and even price (i can hope can I ?)...

tagman · September 2006

BTW, congrats on the A's winning the AL West... Maybe they'd kick the Yankees rear this year... No ? At least the Bay area has something to get them excited, instead of the pitiful Raiders

My 7-year old son was in his pajamas, past his usual bedtime Tuesday night as he watched the A's clinch the AL West . . . hard to describe such joy. He was in heaven for a while.

The Yanks? The best money can buy!

BTW, Thanks . . . and oh yeah, if you're interested, come over to your "favorite" forum and tell me what you think about the R8. For your convenience, here's the link to the R8 microsite, which is basically a cool video.

link title

TagMan

syswei · September 2006

I think what they're doing in Paris is more like a "European debut", i.e., first European showing, so imho we aren't going to see significant new revelations.

excelsior88 · September 2006

I've been looking at the Lexus Europe, country sites, and the Mondial Automobile site but so far no new information other than that the 600h AND 600h L are there...

...no online video so far, unlike Geneva...

syswei · September 2006

This appears to be a Lexus press release.

link title

cyclone4 · September 2006

The description of these various features is mind boggling to me. My head is spinning trying to decipher all these amazing innovations. It will be so much fun learning and adapting to all the high tech features of this vehicle. For example, the climate control system in this description is out of this world. How in the world did they come up with so much detail? It almost gets to the point where one says, I don't only want to drive this car, but "I want to live in this car". Absolutely amazing! I can't wait for next April to get here.

Thanks much for this info syswei. It is greatly appreciated.

idele · September 2006

It is obviously a press release for the Paris Auto Show opening tomorrow. The numerous misprints probably come from the composition by worldcarfans for their site. The release is chock full of real, credible and useful information. That's typical of Toyota/Lexus. The press release on the GS450h for the October 2005 Tokyo Motor Show quickly got me to my Lexus dealer and #1 for purchase. I plan to purchase an LS600hL early in 2008; there is nothing like it.

drfill · September 2006

Apparently, at least in europe, the LS600 will come in SWB and LWB.

This is news to me, as in America I was under the impression that it would be LWB only.

Maybe $85k base price will get you a SWB LS600h? :confuse:

I wouldn't offer a SWB here, at least initially, unless demand was that great for the first 600.

DrFill

nvbanker · September 2006

Can someone explain why Toyoda is releasing this LS460 EVERYWHERE ELSE BUT the USA first? Do I have to go to Tokyo or Paris to see the car that was "Made for America"?

nexuslexus · September 2006

well being made in Japan, it is ready for sale in Japan as soon as it rolls off the assembly line, while for the USA it has to spend weeks/months on a ship from Japan to California/Washington and then go by rail to other markets.

nvbanker · September 2006

Ok. Do they drive 'em to Paris??

oac · September 2006

they were only showing off the 600h and 600hL in Paris, not the 460. The latter is old news already

NV, a few more weeks and you'd get your chance to drive one of these cars. Be patient...

landi · September 2006

This is the arrival date for the LS in the local dealership that just opened up. Apparently, everyone else is getting it 10-20-06.

rennybosch · September 2006

landi, are you talking about Newport Lexus? Their publicity said the new facility cost $65 million, and is the largest Lexus dealership in the US. So they probably have a little extra clout with Lexus US Corporate.

landi · September 2006

Yes! They have a fabulous showroom. It was built to fight the largest MB dealer in the world a block away (it sure looks like the largest in the world, someone told me their sales staff is 130).

tagman · September 2006

For those not familiar with this California dealership, Newport Lexus, please allow me to post this photo.

Nice and Classy. Has a bit of a resort quality to it, IMO.

TagMan

nvbanker · October 2006

It is, tagman. But it looks identical to the Jaguar/Porsche dealership here in Vegas. Can't tell much more than that though....it could be lots bigger.

carnaught · October 2006

this California dealership, Newport Lexus, please allow me to post this photo.

Nice and Classy. Has a bit of a resort quality to it, IMO.

TagMan

Owned by Penske?

excelsior88 · October 2006

It's owned by the same people who own Tustin Lexus, not Penske...I read that the owner has something to do with the Beach Boys.

And supposedly Newport Lexus is the most expensive dealership in America and may even add a restaurant.

nvbanker · October 2006

"and may even add a restaurant."

That's not unique, you know. Vegas has a Ford dealership with a restaurant in it, called Mustang Sally's. Not a "fine dining" restaurant, mind you, but it succeeds.

Personally, there's nothing I'd like better than the smell of new cars wafting over my dinner table. But I'm pretty wierd in this regard, and I can't imagine me inviting a lot of my clients to "meet me at Newport Lexus" for dinner....

excelsior88 · October 2006

I think it's an interesting touch, but after all Target has a cafe in there too.

According to this article:

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_897974.php

It is supposed to be a Wolfgang Puck's Cafe, there is also a Tommy Bahama boutique and some other store...

A nice place to showcase the LS 460 in!

landi · October 2006

Thanks for the article. It has some interesting facts. I recently, turned in my leased 04 LS430 and wanted to buy my wife an RX350. I could not make a deal with NP Lexus so I went elsewhere. But I am planning to attend the October 12th grand opening with the LS460. Is anyone else going?

oac · October 2006

My local Lex dealer told me they are SOLD out through January 2007 on all their allocated LS460 (about 40), even without pricing info. He still has no update on price, but should be receiving a "demo" LS460 in the next couple of weeks, which the public can test drive. If I wanted an LS460 SWB or LWB, unless someone drops out of their list, I should expect to wait until Feb 2007. Ouch !!!

Are any of you hearing same kind of info from your dealerships on availability and sales ??? Just curious...

tagman · October 2006

If I wanted an LS460 SWB or LWB, unless someone drops out of their list, I should expect to wait until Feb 2007.

Have you decided to purchase one?

TagMan

ljflx · October 2006

My dealer told me he's got a couple of hundred sold which takes him into or thru December. But that was a few weeks ago. So I don't know the story today. But the indication he gave me was Lexus would step up LS production. At the same time he told me sales of SUV's like the GX were heating up quickly again, the IS is a smash, the RX is selling briskly, the ES is hot and the updated GS is selling well. So I'm not sure where this capacity is going to come from.

ljflx · October 2006

I guess auto sales data (by any mfr.) was not released today because of Yom Kippur. Typically all sales data (and this is shipments to dealers, not sales to consumers) is released on the first work day of the month. So tomorrow we should see the sales data and that will give us some inkling of first month LS production. But if it's not so large it may well be that they are only shipping a 2 week supply given the mid-late October intro of the car.

Link to Toyota for it's market report when released is below.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/?page=releases&criteria=sales_result&st=kw

oac · October 2006

I was curious as to the LS availability. I have not decided on either an '07 or an '08 LS460. Key decision factors are the Touring package on SWB models and price... If Lexus puts the sport package on the '08 (or a mid-yr refreshed '07) I'd jump on it right away.

BTW, the LX is quietly being re-modeled without much noise from Lexus. Dealer told me Lexus will only ship trickles of LX this year/next... why ? cos the new redesigned and larger '08 LX would be coming next Fall...

nexuslexus · October 2006

This is certainly odd- why would a japanese company take off for Yom Kippur.

tagman · October 2006

BTW, the LX is quietly being re-modeled without much noise from Lexus. Dealer told me Lexus will only ship trickles of LX this year/next... why ? cos the new redesigned and larger '08 LX would be coming next Fall...

Really? One year from now? Are you sure?

Let's hope those third-row seats will fold flat!!

TagMan

ljflx · October 2006

No one in the industry reported their sales data today. PR newswire's a great place to see sales data by mfr. Just click on Industry and markets and then automotive and you'll see everyone's sales data as the press releases come out tomorrow.

http://www.prnewswire.com/

ljflx · October 2006

Re Newport Lexus:

As Ray Barrone (Romano in real life) said to the Condo board that was kicking Frank and Marie out in the second episode of the final season of Everbody loves Raymond:

"Can we live here?"

nvbanker · October 2006

"Let's hope those third-row seats will fold flat!!"

Amen tag. If they do, it ought to be about perfect. I can't believe Lexus would overhaul an SUV without inserting this top secret technology that Ford developed first... I've been amazed they haven't done it sooner in the 4-Runner and GX.

tagman · October 2006

Amen tag.

I've been amazed they haven't done it sooner

Yeah, I remember when my wife and I first went to look at that LX. I was surprised to see those rear seats strapped up against the side window like that. "What kind of Lexus engineering is this?", I wondered.

But those Mickey Mouse flip-flop seats were a real deal-killer for my wife. She damned near broke a finger at the showroom trying them out, when one of those freakin seat contraptions fell down. I couldn't believe my eyes.

Then that crazy seat jammed itself somehow and even the salesman couldn't get it to fold back up. I just watched the whole thing in disbelief as he struggled, but without success. My wife very politely just said "no thanks" and that was the end of that.

TagMan

oac · October 2006

But those Mickey Mouse flip-flop seats were a real deal-killer for my wife. She damned near broke a finger at the showroom trying them out, when one of those freakin seat contraptions fell down. I couldn't believe my eyes.

Ehm... I own an LX, so go easy on it...

Yeah, I hear you on that side-folding seats, but its not really a mickey-mouse, just that the truck is not long enough to accomodate 3-row seating comfortably. If I want one like that, I'd buy a Suburban/Yukon XL which are really great with 3-row seating. The LX has a different purpose - plush, luxury, compliant, and yet a true off-roader truck if you ever need to. Besides, despite its age (pretty old already), it still looks great and matches up pretty good with the competition. The re-do is rumored to be a lot bigger tho' the spy pics (if accurate) looks like a step backwards, style-wise, IMO.... Let's say, I'll be keeping my LX for a long time...

tagman · October 2006

Ehm... I own an LX, so go easy on it... Yeah, I hear you on that side-folding seats, but its not really a mickey-mouse, just that the truck is not long enough to accomodate 3-row seating comfortably. If I want one like that, I'd buy a Suburban/Yukon XL which are really great with 3-row seating.

Oh, sorry. I'll try to go easy on ya'.

Just reporting what happened.

Anyway, I actually liked the LX and still do, but those seats . . . well, I REALLY hope they fix 'em on this next go 'round.

Frankly, I've still got my eye on the Mercedes GL with the BlueTec. One more year, I think. But by the time that happens, the new LX might show up and be worth a look.

TagMan

cyclone4 · October 2006

I believe there has been some confusion about the availability of this option on the new LS460L. Is it for sure available on the LS460L here in the U.S.?

nexuslexus · October 2006

Well, I just read the release, and it seems that Lexus has not reported LS460 sales. LS430 sales were 890 or so, but interestingly enough, broken down for the ES350,IS250/350, GS300/430/450h and LS430, there were 14231 sales, and 14231 imports of all lexus passenger cars. So either a) they aren't truly reporting all vehicles imported in September, or no LS460's arrived in September.

Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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