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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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Comments

  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    per Lexus of Glendale, from CL:

    Ls460 msrp = $67,242

    Cp = Comfort Package

    Nv = Navaigation With Bluetooth/backup Camera

    Pp = Auto Power Door Close & Auto Power Trunk

    Pa = Parking Assist

    Z1 = Preferred Accessory Package

    Ls460l msrp = $85,947

    as = Air Suspension With Vgrs

    Ll = Luxury Package

    Lr = Rear Seat Upgrade Package

    Mh = Mark Levinson/dvd Changer - With Hard Drive

    Mz = Lexus Link

    Pa = Parking Assist

    Pi = Advanced Parking Guidance System

    Ps = Pre Colision System & Dynamic Radar Cruise

    Z1 = Preferred Accessory Package
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    My opinion is I'm pleased with the LS460L pricing, and the SWB should be near $65k, so it does indeed represent incredible value, especially against cars like 750i.

    The LS460L is aggressively priced, and is right on top of the 750iL. This may add feul to Tag's fire on that note.

    I don't think Lexus is after BMW customers any more or less than they are after Mercedes customers. I believe Lexus' priority is to replace Mercedes as the preeminent luxury marque in the US.

    With that in mind, I would price the 600 right on top of the S550, and see what shakes out.

    This would increase market awareness and brand image, and maybe Lexus will sell more than 2-3k hybrids. It's as good a time as any to find out if this luxury hybrid class has legs or not.

    If Lexus can sell more than 3k 600h a year, than the model is a success, IMHO.

    Considering I predicted a 10/15 launch date, and a 10/2 price release date, I'd say I was accurate enough.

    The LS460L is VERY well-equipped, and the 750i is in for a long 2007. Std NAV makes the spread $10k. A novel approach, since it is extremely rare for NAV to be standard on any car, HELM or not.

    Considering the low price on the SWB, 30k sales is a low-ball estimate. 40 is more accurate, and 45-50k is not out of the question in '07! :)

    DrFill
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    I agree that the primary target is still Benz, and the overall goal is market leadership in the luxury arena. What we have here is over half the picture, with the 460 SWB holding down the 'value' end and the 460L shooting for the upper stratosphere. The 600h L remains an enigma.

    One Lexus dealership, Lexus of Glendale in CA, has posted MSRPs for several optioned-out new LS models (at ClubLexus):

    LS 460 $67,242 with Comfort pkg, NAVI, power door/trunk, LEXUS Park Assist, and Preferred Accessory pkg

    LS 460L $85,947 with Air suspension, Rear seat upgrade pkg, Mark Levinson DVD audio and HDD, Lexus Link, Advanced Parking Guidance System (auto-park), Pre-Collision and Dynamic Radar CC, Preferred Accessory pkg

    With the 460L pricing at nearly $86,000 you can imagine how high the LS 600h L is going to get.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    $61K for a base LS460 ? Say, that's cheap isn't it ? I'm sure no one will find a $61K LS460 on this planet... LOL...

    LS 460 $67,242 with Comfort pkg, NAVI, power door/trunk, LEXUS Park Assist, and Preferred Accessory pkg

    Close to what I'd want.... I'd include ML, remove Park Assist, and add the Touring Package. And if I can somehow get that at $70K list, I'd take one... Maybe an '08 LS460 SWB would be so optioned....

    I have to say, these list prices are very aggresive indeed !!!
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Member Posts: 147
    Perhaps 86,000 for base LS600hL, which might include the air suspension and the nav system. I assume the price would reach above $100,000.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    are on the CL site. Here is the gallery.
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    ...had an LS out for us to poke around in. All in all it seems like a very nice upgrade from my current LS (05 Modern Lux PKG.)

    I don't know how they did it, but the leather in the 460 feels softer and even MORE luxurious than that of the 430.

    The new steering wheel makes you want to just sit there like an idiot holding it. The triple polish thing makes a difference!

    The new bluish instrument panel looks very upscale.. and just plain cool.

    The nicer, larger navigation screen is as close to a flat panel plasma as you can get in a car!

    I've got to find SOMETHING to nag about -- the glove box door felt a bit flimsy when closing it -- perhaps it was defective due to the hundreds of other folks poking around in the car?

    The hot car-model-turntable lady made a speech confirming the prices ($61 starts you out, $71 for the longer car). She said the price would top out at $94K for the 460L with every option checked off. She said dealers were promised the cars for sale on the 20th. My wife slapped me for staring more at the model-in-the-business-suit than at the LS. :)

    Overall this car is on the top of my list when lease renewal time comes around late next year. I figure by then the hoopla has died down and more competitive pricing will once again be available in the Miami market.

    Looking at this car in person, it looks fantastic inside and out. I can only imagine how she drives. :))))
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Just don't be too surprised if you don't get the great lease deal you got the last time.

    Are you going to the Taste of Lexus event in November?
    I am going on November 19th.
  • jd14jd14 Member Posts: 128
    http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/LexusLS460/
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    As previously noted, extended comparisons of the LS to other vehicles should be done in an appropriate discussion. The High End Luxury Marques discussion is available and if that doesn't suit, other discussions may be created at will.

    Thanks!
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    Sounds great, I'm looking forward to seeing this car. Glad to hear of the bluish glow, I was wondering if that effect shows up in person. Wonder how improved the steering wheel feels as well.

    And finally the very nice FamilyCar article is updated, thx for the link.
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    I haven't even seen the invite to the November taste... I must not be loved anymore by corporate. I've never been to one of those events -- I guess that's the best opportunity to drive the LS without any sales pressure.

    I figure the LS lease rates will cool down in no time down here. I've noticed that the hoopla over new models don't seem to last much and once the newness wears off it's business as usual.

    The LS is a special car though, and for sure it will cost more to lease it. Perhaps 5-10% more per month?

    Excelsior -- the instrument panel IS really neat. Everything seems to just be floating around in there. More so that in the current LS. Night drives in this beast must be a treat!
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    A number of dealerships are having them, invitation only most of them--although you can snag one if you e-mail them. JM Lexus, Lexus of Glendale, and Newport Lexus are having them...October 20th.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The LS is a special car though, and for sure it will cost more to lease it.

    What it will lease for also depends upon the calculated residual at least end, and the lease factor (interest rate). It may actually not be more, or as much as the 05's, if they are expected to hold their value better.
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    I guess you've just gotta get lucky and find the right LS, at the right time, with the right dealership willing to deal hard.

    I doubt this will be the case during the next 6 months or so!!

    First adopters get the bragging rights but usually pay top price for that distinction.

    I'm curious to see the first LS460 owners trickle in with their price posts.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    gteach - nice to see you again. It appears you want an 07 already.... Which model would you pursue?
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I didn't get an invite either, but I've been a BMW man.
    I found out about it from another poster and I signed up online.
    Go to tasteoflexus.com and sign up.
    If they took me, they must really be desperate!

    I would figure $750-$800 a month for you, since your current lease forces you to wait until the excitement dies down, which is a very good thing, and you know how to negotiate a good deal. Many people who jump on the bandwagon early will probably pay $900 a month and up.

    It's good to see you posting again!

    See you at the pate line! I'll park my 545 around back! ;)
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    Hope you enjoy it! I doubt they're 'desperate' for you, rather they are out to expose the brand to longtime luxury customers of many different makes. As their market share grows, inevitably there will be crossovers--as there have been many already.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Thank you! Food and cars. How could it miss?

    Now that my football team is deeply embedded in last place, it will give me something to look forward to on a Sunday afternoon in mid-November.
  • ilijabmwilijabmw Member Posts: 15
    now that the LS is "almost" out, which would you pick as the most "bold" or the eye-catcher?

    for example, would you stop and admire if a S-Class passed by or a LS passed by?

    image

    image

    for me, I think it would be more of the S-Class mainly because of its branding and the pricing of the vehicle...">
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    They both are bold. But having seen both in person though I'd say that the Lexus, particularly the LWB LS, is much better looking in person than in that picture and the exact opposite is true for the S-class. The picture gives it a beauty which doesn't come across in person based on the cars I've seen.
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    If the LS is anything like the GS/IS/ES, the car will have a different look in person and depending on the angle, lighting, and color...to the point that the photos rarely do the car justice. It's very strange with the new L-Finesse designs, that their look cannot be seen fully unless in person. Perhaps beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Or true looks cannot be fully captured by photos?

    Not that they are perfect by any means, but it's interesting how different the new Lexus cars look vs. the previous generation, and vs. the competition. I am looking forward to seeing the new LS in person.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Posted on CL by the JM Lexus dealership:

    packages w/estimated pricing for SE area

    LS460 #1
    Premium package
    CP comfort pkg
    PA intuitve park assist
    Trunk mat, wheel locks...
    Approx $63680

    LS460 #2
    CP comfort pkg
    NL Navi/Levinson with HDD and XM radio
    PA intuitive park assist
    Trunk mat, wheel locks...
    Approx $69325

    LS460 #3
    CP
    MZ Lexus Link
    NP Navi/Levinson with advanced Parking Guidance, HDD, XM...
    PA
    PP Power trunk/door closers
    Trunk mat, Wheel locks...
    Approx $71320

    LS460L
    AS Air Suspension
    LL Luxury pkg. with Semi-Aniline leather
    MH Mark Levinson with HDD
    MZ Lexus Link
    PA Intuitive park assist
    PI Advanced Parking Guidance system
    Trunk mat, Wheel locks...
    Approx $81420

    LS460L
    LP Exec. Seating pkg
    AS
    MH
    MZ
    PA
    PI
    Trunk mat, Wheel locks...
    Approx $91315

    Other packages were posted earlier, here.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    First adopters get the bragging rights but usually pay top price for that distinction.

    Indeed, they do. Which is why I try to find a nice one that's about a year old. Save about $20,000 that way. Car is still under warranty, and usually well cared for. If not, it hasn't gone so far it should matter much.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Fox news showed a couple of LS460L's on a segment this morning. The self parking feature was displayed and the car parked itself flawlessly in seconds in Manhattan traffic. They had a white car and a pewter gray (don't know the official color names Lexus is going with yet). Both cars looked like knockouts in those colors. The interior with the 4 seat option was also shown. The newscasters were in love with this car.

    I have no desire for the 4 seat package or the self parking and it's obvious the self parking feature is purely aimed at the chaffeurred crowd and offers a lot of early bragging rights. The car is a knockout and looked far more beautiful and sleeker on TV than it does in the pix posted on here yesterday. For all of us first year buyers I think this car is not going to slow down much in sales volume/demand or discount off MSRP until we are into year 2 production. Just my feeling that this car is going to hit a bigger sweetspot among lux car buyers than Lexus or anyone else thinks. Remember that the LS600HL introduced 6 months from now will keep the accolades going and then I would'nt be surprised if Lexus moves the engine to a 500 or 550 displacement in year 2. That seems to be the latest Lexus strategy - increase engine size/peformance after leaving yourself wiggle room in year 1.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The car is a nice-looking car! And it makes the S550 look muddled and confused in comparison.

    Various posters elsewhere try to downplay the value of the parking feature, by saying you need an extra 4 feet, and that's too much.

    That's 2 feet on each side, and if you own a LS, especially in Manhattan, you probably wouldn't risk cramming it into a space much smaller than 2 feet per side.

    I expect 40k sales in 2007. Conservative estimate.

    DrFill
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Doc - the self parking feature is likely to be on 1 in every 10 cars they sell. To even bring it up as an important part of LS sales targets or a feature people in mass want is a waste of time. It's for the select few and it's a marketing statement emphasizing Lexus technology, which is why Fox emphasized it today. That's exactly the marketing spin Lexus would have wanted - and it occurred on a news show with reporters going ga-ga over it and the car. Chances are Fox doesn't even look at the car if it doesn't have that feature. But they did and awareness levels of everyone that saw the car are now raised and that is what marketing is - raising awareness levels. You'd think an auto reviewer worth his salt reviewing a car like this or people buying a car like this would be smart enough to understand the marketing concept at work here.

    40K cars is also what I'd expect but it may go higher and I expect that the LS460L will sell a lot better than Lexus is planning.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    The other thing about the 460 series is that in a "mainstream" luxury sedan you can get the level of luxury and class such as the 4-seat Executive Package offers....

    Until now, you'd have to pony up $300K and up to get something that good, and Lexus offers it on a mainstream lux sedan, and at prices well south of $100K. I think its a great marketing strategy to offer a LOT for less. Do you need a Maybach 57/62 at $250 - 400K range, when Lexus offers all that and more for $90K ????? And you can even have the car park itself too.... That's why this LS series will be a huge winner in the market.

    The LS series will win the sales crown going away... The key is Europe and Japan sales. Based on early returns, Japan will really pick up on the new LS, let's see how it plays in Europe.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    OAC - what they have done is brilliant when you think about it. They've retained the smaller LS and allowed it to be kept to a $65K price but the car will go all the way to the 90's in LWB form and to $105K or so in it's ultimate LS600HL form. That's a big bandwidth of buyers you can attract and the car will deliver high end luxury with a lot more sport, and even a sport option, to any one in that bandwidth. In effect Lexus makes both the value play and the high end lux play at the same time with that price bandwidth, and allows the car to steal buyers from above and below the segment. It's also a striking car - particularly in LWB - which better shows the sleekness of this car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'm thinking they may sell a lot more LWBs than they are anticipating. Personally, I wouldn't put up the extra $$ for it, as the SWB, if it's like my LS, has plenty of rear seat room. But egos exist, and you know, "mine has to be longer" mentality is all over the place, and not just in pickups.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    It's a lot more than that. The LWB improves the ride, gives a lot of added rear room and just plain looks sleeker and better - at least to me - plus it attacks the competition more. We are only talking 5" here and I would never buy into the thought that longer makes it better. I do know that a longer wheel base rides better though.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I understand what you are saying. I have looked seriously at a Jag XJ8L, or Vanden Plas, because the back seat is so spacious. But the regular XJ8 is a little scripy in the back for legroom, IMO. I think the L in the Jag would make a lot of sense. I'm just saying, that Lexus has provided for a lot of legroom back there already (unless that has changed on the 460), and the LWB wouldn't be necessary for me. Also, I'm sure it would ride better, but how much better can it ride? It's already just about perfect. Handling may be impaired just a bit, but not much.

    For the money, all I'm saying is the SWB would do me fine, I think.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    That's why I think Lexus has made a great marketing move here. You want a simple very luxurious SWB car they've got it for you. You want some added lux on that SWB car they've got it. You want a more simple LWB lux car - they've got that too. You want penultimate luxury in a LWB car in this segment with 380-450HP and excellent mileage plus hybrid alternative - they have got that too - all in the same model line.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    Leonard, remind me again why we are getting all that excited about the 460. Engine up from 4.3 to 4.6, 8 gears instead of 6, push button start instead of turning a key -- that's about all, isn't it? Of course it's quieter; every year's new model has been quieter than the previous. On the other hand, drag coefficient = 0.26 vs. the 0.25 we got when the LS430 first came out in 2000. So if we don't need the LWB (and I wouldn't mainly because I love the extremely tight turning radius), is it really such a big deal?

    Maybe I'm just getting older . . .

    Renny
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Member Posts: 147
    The reason is that this is an improvement over what is arguably the best vehicle on the market (the current LS).

    For me though, the main reason to get excited is the AWD, which will allow me for the first time to get the LS.
  • ideleidele Member Posts: 200
    You state: "You want penultimate luxury in a LWB car in this segment"
    Dictionary definition of "penultimate": next to the last.
    So your statement is hardly complimentary. "Ultimate" might be a word to use but I wouldn't use it because of the abuse of it by BMW.
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    The LS 430 drag coefficient is 0.26 for most vehicles, it's 0.25 when the air suspension is used, IIRC. It's probable the LS 460 is similar, 0.26 standard, 0.25 with at least one of the suspension setups...

    IMO, the reason to be excited about the LS 460 includes its new styling, interior design, features (new high-res large touchscreen, HDD, NavTraffic, ML sound system with iPod connectivity, gracenote, etc.). A lot of it is evolutionary over the previous LS' strengths, including the interior comfort levels, smooth ride, etc. But also the vehicle is supposed to be sportier than the last.

    Although, yes, the LS 460 L is taking the limelight here, but a lot of it IMO is rubbing off on the LS 460 itself. These are amazing, world-class leading cars.

    BTW, considering the LS 460 L commanding upwards of $91,000 when fully loaded, anyone care to revise estimates for how much the LS 600h L will cost?
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Why bother ever making a new car or a new style of the car if you look at it that way. You've got 102 more horses and a much sleeker style and a bunch of major updates and new innovations. If it doesn't mean anything to you then you shouldn't have any interest in the car. Until they make a hydrogen powered car or one that flies every car is an just an update of the existing car. Me - I'm excited by it and can't wait till my lease is up. We think very differently it appears.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Next time I'll check the dictionary but I always use penultimate as top or near top and this is the first time I've been told it's wrong.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Next time I'll check the dictionary but I always use penultimate as top or near top and this is the first time I've been told it's wrong.

    OOps..... :blush: So have I, and I'm an English Major....

    However, this is the source of the word, and he's right, it means last.

    penult
    One entry found for penult.


    Main Entry: pe·nult
    Pronunciation: 'pE-"n&lt, pi-'
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Latin paenultima penult, from feminine of paenultimus almost last, from paene almost + ultimus last -- more at ULTIMATE
    : the next to the last member of a series; especially : the next to the last syllable of a word
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    "BTW, considering the LS 460 L commanding upwards of $91,000 when fully loaded, anyone care to revise estimates for how much the LS 600h L will cost? "

    Good point - but again you need to look at the ranges here. That $91K price is an LS460L with everything included. You probably don't see that car once the HL is here. Cars fully optioned often cross a path where the next level up car starts and in my book the moment you even get near that point you abandon the lower tiered car. If I look at ranges I'd say the LS460L goes from $71-$91K and the LS 600HL ranges from $85-$105K. It's really going to be based on what the option prices are. If the LS600HL is loaded the way the initial specs showed then maybe the range is tighter - say $90-$100K or $95K to $105K. My feeling is that once the LS600HL arrives you'll need to custom order an LS460L to reach that $91K number.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Too funny! I also found out just recently that penultimate is exactly one away from the top. I had always read it as "the very top" - and normally I know just about any word you can throw at me! :blush:
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, everyone uses it incorrectly, so it's easy to "learn" it that way. In fact, if you tried to use it correctly, you'd be corrected by some know - it - all.....
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    But another way of looking at that is furthest and furthest can translate to highest. Everytime I've seen penultimate used it's meant highest or near highest. I come across the word the most in astronomy or science write-ups and it was always being used to describe something to the highest degree.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    But the actual definition is that it is exactly once removed from the highest degree. Check it out.
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    Agreed, as stated officially the LS 460 starts at $71,000 and it is indeed special order to get the Exec Class seating package (and jump up to $91,000 along with the other options). I agree there will be overlap, although I expect the fully-loaded LS 600h L to reach the pinnacle of LS pricing. An LS 600h L 'base' version (loaded still with standard features) will possibly be less than the LS 460 L fully loaded.
  • bugfiatbugfiat Member Posts: 11
    Penultimate means: last but one or second last. It is often mistakenly used and understood to mean 'absolutely ultimate'.

    Reference: Canadian Oxford Dictionary.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    We've spent enough time on this but last in the description of the meaning of this word doesn't mean last in the sense of say, last place as in bottom of the standings. It means next to last chapter of a book or next to last scene of a Broadway Play. So the meaning really is intended to mean once removed from the furthest point. Hence people think of the word and use it in a way that gives a far away untouchable sense. No question though that this word is misconstrued as many people think of it as the most extreme as opposed to next in line from that level. When I've read it, it has connoted the meaning of most ultimate or most spectacular - and the last time I came across the word was in a story about a possible asteroid collision with earth described as the penultimate disaster. Unless the auhor knew of a disaster still to come after that he misconstrued the meaning of the word.

    BTW - I will never use this word again.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I don't blame you. Not sure I will either.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Len,

    Getting away from the "penultimate" and talking about the "supreme", are you still in line for the LS600hL or have you had a change of heart and going for the LS460L?

    I am very much looking forward to the LS600hL. The only thing that concerns me a little about the 600 is the trunk size. I have heard some rumors that it will be really tiny, perhaps 8-10 cubic feet due to the size and location of the battery. I cannot believe that Lexus would ever design a car of this type with that small of a trunk. I am thinking that it will be more like 12-15 cubic feet. As long as my wife and I can fit a few pieces of luggage in the trunk for long trips (and I plan on taking some long trips with this incredible vehicle), I am fine with it. Have you heard anything more about it?
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