Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

ljflx · June 2005

You have it wrong. The S-class has, as standard, just about all of the things you get in the ultra package of the LS, things like an air suspension. You have to fully load the LS to match the standard offerings of the S430 and particularly the S500. It's not the other way around. Believe me I shopped these cars heavily in 2001. You don't dress up an S to match an LS ultra. You dress up an LS with the ultra package to match an S. That's why the real pricepoint difference is about $6K on a comparative S430 and LS430 ultra. Lexus will let you have a dressed down car that holds prices in the $60-65K range if you want. MB won't, thus air suspension etc are standard. On top of that you can option out an S with further packages that the LS doesn't offer, like Active Body Control, a designo package etc. As outfitted before these MB extras both the Ultra LS and the S may have things that the other doesn't have but for the most part an Ultra LS is about equal to a base S. Very little has changed on either car's option packages since 2001.

callmedrfill · June 2005

Or am I just so right?

Items on $69k LS430 Ultra Luxury Pkg that are optional on S430:

CD Changer ($430 on S430)

Parking Assist ($1100 on S430)

Heated Front Seats ($680)

Rear Seat Pkg. ($2890)

Xenon Lights & Light Washers ($1250)

Adaptive Cruise ($3110)

Power Door Closers (Trunk Closer $500)

For a grand total of..........darn! My calculator konks out at $85k. :surprise: Needs a muffler and oil change anyway.

DrFill

yamamurakelvin · June 2005

Dear valued Toyota customers at Edmunds.com
My name Kelvin Yamamura and I am currently working as the deputy research director at Toyota Motors in Japan. As you might notice earlier, my good friend Ken has submit a message to Edmunds that provide a direct web link, which connects you to a Chinese website where they showed a photo shot of myself and my assistant Makiko were conducting a high speed and cornering test on our labs test track months ago. Unfortunately theses photo shot you are looking at was actually a V8 version of the Lexus IS sedan, but not the LS sedan many of you are discussing in this forum. As a result, I have contact Ken early this morning in Shanghai about the misinformation and he do apologize to everyone in the Edmunds forum about the inconveniences that might have result. Furthermore since Ken was also recovering from his injuries and memory loss he suffered as a result from an auto accident that happened approximately a month ago. Therefore I think this was perhaps the reason why he got very confused in identifying different types of prototype vehicles and I do hope Ken can fully recover from his memory loss very soon.
Since before Kens accident, I have promised him that I would post a couple of comments about the Lexus LS sedan at Edmunds. Therefore I would now take over Kens place and discuss the LS sedan until Ken fully recover from his injuries.
Before I begin, I would like to offer my sincere apologies for the long delay before I was able to address many of the comments and concerns that many of you have raised for the past 2 months. This is because of the fact my research on the Century project and daily events that were taking place in Aichi have leave me very little time to read carefully to all the messages that has being posted on the LS sedan forum. Furthermore I was also being recently promoted by the management become deputy research director, which have also keep me very busy for a couple of weeks.
For those individuals whom have reported about the defects and troubleshoots that you have reported on the current Celsoir sedan, I have forward these problems to the managing director at Tahara factory and request my engineers to do their best of their abilities in finding a solution to correct these defects. Furthermore I have also contacted the American management to address the defect issue and demand their explanation as to why our customer service has become so inefficient in reporting these quality-controls issues to the management. I do sincerely hope my actions would bring positive improvement to the current situation and I do apologize for those individuals whom have being bothered by these defects on their Celsoirs.
Sincerely yours
Kevin Yamamura

yamamurakelvin · June 2005

Since many of you are very interested in other model lines that are currently in development by our Lexus division and I would be more than honor to offer some information on some these sedans. However since this is a message board for the LS sedan, I would first going concentrate most of my time in discussing the LS sedan at this time.
-Many of you in this forum seem to be confused as to whether or not the LS600h sedan would produce either 460 horsepower as CarMode magazine stated or 500 horsepower as some other magazine claimed. What I can tell you that CarModes predictions are very close to the engine ratings that Nobutaka and his engineers have being reported in our engine test lab. Although this might disappoint many of you whom want the LS600h in achieving 500 horsepower because the technology that is currently available to us can easily tune this engine to achieve 500 horsepower. However please remember by doing so, it would sacrifice a lot of its stability and smoothness of the engine itself and this would prevent a lot of buyers to purchase the LS sedan if they find out their sedan are not as smooth and stable as the original Celsoir processes. Furthermore you must also remember a sedan with 460 or 470 horsepower was not a slow sedan either and with the engines powerful torque curve plus a new 7-speed transmission, I dont see theres a reason why this sedan would not outrun the Mercedes S 600 or BMW 760 LI on the road.
- As pointed earlier, Ken has made a bad mistake by putting a web link that shows the picture of a V8 IS sedan testing on the racetrack and provides some irrelevant information about the source of the place and where the photographs are taken. However one of the things that Ken correctly state was the fact that I recently invite two photographers from two different Japanese auto magazines press into our lab to take a short look and take some instant exterior photographs on the prototype LS sedan itself. Unfortunately what Ken did not pick up from our phone conversation yesterday was the fact the two photographers are only allow to use these photos to draw up a sketch drawing of the sedan and after they are finished and exit the lab, we have destroy these photographs to prevent them from release it to public sources. Therefore its impossible that somebody would ever be able acquire such photographs and release it to public. However I do believe that when the sedan would begin its extensive outdoor testing within the end of this year, there would be already a possibility that someone whom are brave enough and risk everything in getting a photographs on the LS sedan (as long as he/she was not caught by us) especially this sedan was highly anticipated in our homeland.
-So what is the difference between the picture that Mr. oac has seen from Carmode magazine and the recent sketches from these two photographers? I can tell you what Mr. oac has seen in Carmode magazine was actually a copy from one of the sketches drawn from our chief designer from the Lexus LS project. Therefore, there would be some exterior features from the Carmode sketch were missing from the actual prototype vehicle itself. But nevertheless, these sketches are good enough to show how the exterior of the LS sedan should look like
-For the past two months, I have viewed a number of suggestions and advices that many of you have provide for us and I have privately discuses this matter to Hiroyuki, the chief engineer for the LS project on whether or not these suggestions are viable enough to be implanted on the new LS sedan. The good news is that some of these suggestions are accepted by and guarantees that they would be definitely implanted on the new LS sedan. But the bad news is while some of these suggestions are viable, they would unfortunately not be implanted on the new LS sedan due to either these suggestions might compromise the overall performance of the sedan or its simply too expensive at this time to be implanted on the new LS sedan.
-I am also aware that some of you were very concerned with the pricing on the new LS sedan and I fully understand your worries since the new pricing would be much higher than the current Celsoir sedan. Unfortunately since I dont have much time to explain you the details, I would be more than honor to discuss this issue in more detail on next week.
-To finish off my comments on the new LS sedan, I would now list some of the technical highlights that you might be expecting when the new Lexus LS arrives. The reason why I say these equipment Might be implanted on the new LS sedan is because the project itself have not yet being extensively viewed and approve by neither our management nor the research directing board. Its possible that some of the equipment might not be implanted on the LS sedan when they arrive at the showrooms and I hope you would understand this issue.
1: Intelligent Active Suspension System (IASS)
This technology was developed under the existing active suspension system currently employed by the Celsoir sedan. The system works through a central computer which would constantly monitor each suspension in the car. Whenever sedan turns into sharp corners, the central computer would issue commands to adjust each suspension appropriately to enhance the sedans cornering ability.
2. New, lightweight sound deadening system
In order to maintain the weight of the new LS sedan to weight less than two tons, our engineers have successfully invent a new lightweight sound deadening system for both Century and the LS sedan. Unlike Hondas noise canceling system, our sound deadening system was designed to not only absorb noises on the road, it would also tries to contain these noises from intruding into the cabin.
3. Intelligent Night-vision System with Active Safe
Unlike most night-vision systems you have seen in some American brand sedans or in the Legend sedan, this system works by not only identify any moving object (ie. animals or children) that emitted heat energy. When the object was detected by the computer and is likely to cause the impact. The computer would initiate a signal, warning to the driver to the upcoming object and would immediately apply brake pressure that would try to avoid a direct impact to the object.
4. Advanced Lane Departure Warning System
Unlike the current lane departure warning system that has employed in some sedans, our advanced version of the system includes a more sensitive radar that are more sensitive and accurately in picking up the lane markers during any weather condition. It also have an automatic control that can either set on and off by the driver where if your car is beginning to steer off lane, the computer would send a warning signal to the driver and would automatically steer you back gently into the correct direction.
-Please remember this is only a small portion of the many equipment that would employ on the LS sedan and it

yamamurakelvin · June 2005

...(Continue) its unlikely I would release more information any time soon about the . This is because not only I would get trouble from the management by releasing too many information on the sedan. But more importantly it would lose all the surprises and public anticipation of the sedan, which is not a marketing strategy at all.
-In addition, although you might not be able to see the real pictures Lexus LS prototype very soon, it would definitely be shown in the upcoming Tokyo auto show as we are trying to organize some of the final arrangements with the organizers for this event. Furthermore you can also have a first glimpse of my Century project that I have busily working for 1.5 years and other concepts coming from our Lexus division in the Tokyo auto show as well.
I would try to finish up the third and final section of my message within two days since I have to head out for lunch with my family. If you find any problems from the message that I just posted, please do not hesitate to contact me and I would try to address them if I have time available.
Sincerely yours
Kevin Yamamura

callmedrfill · June 2005

Ixna on the etailsmay! We read you, KY. Thank You.

This answers some of our questions very well, without killing the goose!

My questions regard LWB size difference/increase, base HP, efficiency of both motors, styling upgrades, and pricing. Hopefully an iDrive is NOT in Lexus' future!!

You hear him guys! As he answers questions, don't start blabbing all the hype stuff we will get, and make a marketing problem for them. Keep it on the down low!

Kevin, can you just give very vague, ballpark estimates of HP and economy improvements, percentages of price increases, and where the Hybrid will put the LS vs. Mercedes, pricewise. They are planning on to introduce a hybrid "within five years".

Also upgrades in IT, like iPod accessibility, NAV improvements, links to sites where we might see sketches, and improvements coming to other models would be much obliged!

Is the HPX concept gonna turn into reality? What will happen to Lexus LX?

Thanks again, Kevin.

DrFill

lexusguy · June 2005

Kevin,

We really appreciate you sharing these details with us. One question I have is how many V8s are in Lexus' future. Are the IS and LS600h going to get a larger (the rumored 5.0L V8) than the GS460 and LS460?

Thanks again for taking the time to talk to us.

oac · June 2005

So what is the difference between the picture that Mr. oac has seen from Carmode magazine and the recent sketches from these two photographers? I can tell you what Mr. oac has seen in Carmode magazine was actually a copy from one of the sketches drawn from our chief designer from the Lexus LS project...

WOW !!!

Now I must post that sketch for all to see it. Does anyone want to volunteer to host the pic so that I can send them the scanned pic ? Note that this may be the first real sketch of the next LS on Edmund's....I'd be happy to get this posted here somehow, so if I get any takers we'll do it.... That sketch of the new LS is a real *looker* and a real beauty for a Lexus, and should generate a lot of positive reactions from Lexus fans, and a new found respect from its detractors, IMO....

Many thanks, Kevin, for your time to get these info to us. We do indeed appreciate your efforts. When you do have the time, and can spare a few more info for us, pls do not hesitate to do so.

Take care

nexuslexus · June 2005

Ken.. thank you so much.

What I would like to know though is AWD? if so when?

OAC... I will host the picture... send it to me
at
thelexusnexus -AT- gmail.com

chris65amg · June 2005

Some of that technological stuff sounds really cool. So the LS will weigh less than 2 tons? Hm. Might end up lighter than an Eclipse! (There's my bad joke for today)

And a 7-speed? Sound's like they're taking aim at MB, and in a good way.

Overall, I am in total approval of the next LS.

Kevin, thank you so much for all of the info.

oac · June 2005

Check your mailbox. I sent you a scanned pic of the LS600h sketch as shown in the *SCOOP* section of the July 2005 CARTOP mag in Japan.

Looking forward to seeing it posted to this forum.

mfpr · June 2005

I can appreciate Lexus wanting to design the '07 LS with a lot of high tech equipment to showcase their flagship. However, Lexus has provided, in current and past models, the ability to choose your options, depending on the equipment desired and the willingness (or ability) to pay the price. All LS models, regardless of equipment levels, have been great values with high standard equipment content and prices starting about the same as BMW 545i's and MB E500's. I hope that Lexus does not abandon this pricing strategy with the '07 LS and force me to settle for a less desirable choice.

nexuslexus · June 2005

">

Well... there it is. Now, it claims to be a LS600h sketch... but it looks to me like the plate in front says LS500.. so I don't know.. maybe its the 500.

Anyways, its a beauty!!!

mfpr · June 2005

Thanks for posting the picture. There are some definite styling cues from the GS and IS in the "C" pillar design and rake of the rear window. It also appears to have tail lights that sweep around the sides of the car. I like the low-wide stance and also the dished wheel design. I do have to admit that, overall, it's not as radical as I had expected (not necessarily a bad thing). I can't tell if the line that flows along the side of the headlights down through the bumper to the side of the fog light is actually a design feature or just the artist's way of shading.

Because of the rake of the rear window, there might be less headroom for rear seat passengers and if the trunk has been shortened, like the GS, there might also be less trunk space or maybe a smaller opening. It will be interesting to see how closely this sketch resembles the actual car. For me, Lexus' new designs have looked much better when seeing the actual car than seeing them in pictures.

nexuslexus · June 2005

Yeah.. .the same thing has been true for me too (especially the IS). I am undecided on whether that wrap around back is a good or bad thing. It seems g35esque.

lexusguy · June 2005

Interesting. The design of the front to me almost seems a little "Q ish", but more substantial and a little more angular. What do you guys think?

ljflx · June 2005

Car looks great. It is both athletic and classy as it maintains a stately look as well thanks to the grille. I can do without that notchback though. That's too BMWesque and looks better on a smaller car like the GS. Hopefully it doesn't make the final cut and instead they give us a sweptback rear look like the A8 has. That would make the car a knockout to my eyes.

What's the feeling about that notchback - preferable to you guys or just sweepback that rear pillar?? Hey - we might be able to influence Kelvin here!

OAC and Nexuslexus - you guys came thru - great teamwork and thanks.

oac · June 2005

..The design of the front to me almost seems a little "Q ish", ...

I don't see anything remotely close to a Q front in that sketch. More Audi-esque with that grille. The overall gait is more muscular and BMW-like, imo. I guess we just gotta wait for more info to come out as we approach the Tokyo Motor Show later this year.

ljflx · June 2005

I don't see the Q at all either.

lexusguy · June 2005

Hmm I guess it was just me. The shape of the lights I think is what reminded me most of the Q. Its just a sketch though.

chris65amg · June 2005

It looks like the current LS enough so you can tell it's an LS, but it looks so much more savvy. I like it. Very sophisticated looking. Looks better than the S, 7, A8 or XJ. That's a pretty big complement from me, because I think the XJ is lovely lookin.

That is an LS500, by the way.

Does psI mean horsepower? Because the hiragana that is right before the 450 usually means "at" or "by means of", i think.

Needing to brush up on his Japanese,
Chris

lexi4life · June 2005

So far we have:

LS460 (4.6L, 340 hp) SWB
LS500 (5.0L, 400hp) LWB
LS600h (5.0 + electric motors, 480hp?) LWB

Is that correct or I'm wrong?

ljflx · June 2005

But is the LS500 pure gas or a hybrid. There is supposed to be a mid-level and upper level hybrid.

syswei · June 2005

Kevin,

A belated THANK YOU for the great info.

A few questions/comments, if you find the time at some point:

1. Is IASS similar to (or being developed with) Bose? (as in the link I had posted some time ago http://www.automobilemag.com/news/0410_bose/ )

2. I think it would make sense if "Active Safe" (which I assume means automated braking) also applied to objects detected by rear sensors (day or night). Especially important for SUVs...a couple of years ago in my town, a woman backed up and ran over her 2-year old grandson with a SUV, and the child was killed.

3. You suggested that the Lane Departure Warning System would use radar, but I don't see how that could be...in the U.S. at least the lane markings are usually only painted...I assume the system must be optical??? If so, I think it would be very useful if it also detected vehicles in the blind spot (and warned against lane changes if it would result in a collision).

4. Any additional commentary on other vehicles would be appreciated. For instance, has there been any decision to build something like the LF-X, and if so, is it 5, 6, or 7 passenger? In what timeframe might we see a hybrid GX and LX?

5. Personally I think Lexus should add a 7-8 passenger vehicle that has more space than a GX (which I regard as far too narrow for its price point) but better gas mileage than an LX. If not the LF-X, then maybe a crossover based on the Sienna (just as the Acura MDX is based on the Odyssey). Speaking for myself (currently owner of a LX and RX) I am tempted to replace the LX with an MDX, for several reasons: interior space (compared to GX), price (compared to LX), gas mileage.

Anyway, thanks again for the info on the LS!

wbwynn · June 2005

My friend...hope you are well.. Im OK.....gee.. I just love my 04 LS..so much that I read this great board with anticipation of the new LS...no comments but just to say "it will be what it will be"....and it will be so GD good....enough to make me buy it. I am a short timer for having owned a LS for only 6 years...but I do know for sure that I will own an LS the rest of my life....period

BMW and MB are lost....IMO

As an aside...I am a huge fan of Honda...for your kids...no better...Accords, CRVs, Pilots,....let em live.

Gas prices will NOT go down in this decade.

BW

lexusguy · June 2005

As I've said before, its no sports car, but for the most basic automobile mission of getting from one place to another, there's not a better vehicle in the world, period. Lexus would have to really screw up for me to drive something else.

nvbanker · June 2005

I like it a lot....

syswei · June 2005

I wonder if that's the GT version. If I recall, the GT was the only rumored version that was supposed to get a 5 liter engine, and the sketch clearly indicates 5 liter.

If it is a GT version that may explain why it looks so low-slung and aggressive. The standard trim probably won't look quite the same, is my guess.

nvbanker · June 2005

Most sketches look better than the production models ever do, but if some of those styling cues get in there, I'm gonna like it.

nexuslexus · June 2005

Well, I know this is slightly offtopic, but have you guys seen the new S-Class? See it at autospies.com. I think its horribly ugly and it has an i-drive type controler. I think this will be a considerable help to Lexus's LS.

lexusguy · June 2005

I dont think its necessarily ugly, but I dont really like it. It borrows too many ques from the Maybach, and the inside is a literal cut and paste from the 7 series.

nvbanker · June 2005

Let me just say, that the I drive is the main reason I don't consider a 7-series, (if anyone in Nuerenburg reads English) and if MB is going to adopt it, then the S-class will be dropped further from my short list than it already is. Now, I just hope the guys at Toyoda don't start copying them (you know, they love to do that), and put one in the Lexus. I don't want to have to drive my Microsoft, I like lots of buttons, with easy labels on them so I can do what I want with 1 keystroke.

mikegiller · June 2005

That would be true if this was the concept sketch...but seeing as how this is the sketch of the production model since photos are not allowed to be taken of this car, the journalist sketched the model so that there is a representation of the car. If you read the comments/history of the picture posted you would realize this.

nvbanker · June 2005

"If you read the comments/history of the picture posted you would realize this."

It wasn't available to me for some reason. But thank you for clearing that up for me. I can die happy now.

I still love the looks of the car.

mikegiller · June 2005

I'm in a dilemma right now... Lexus LS 460/500/600h or IS 350/460/500. When these cars come out I'll be in the market for one. What a joy it will be to test drive them! DECISIONS DECISION DECISION!!!

I love Porsches, especially the 911 4s, but from what I hear, the reliability :lemon: is really lacking. Because of this, the new LF-A looks like a sure contender for a sports car in my stable. :shades:

The new design for the 2007 LS is very sleek and sophisticated, which I like. I sure hope that the new BOSE suspension is implemented into the LS which is somewhat implied by the test mule for the BOSE suspension (this generation's LS 430). I can't say the same for their speakers, which suck IMO. Since I LOVE technology, the 2007 LS will no doubt blow my mind. Can't wait to hear some more info on this car! If anyone comes across some info or pics you haven't heard or seen before please let us know!

chris65amg · June 2005

""Lexus LS 460/500/600h or IS 350/460/500""

Well I'm sure that the LS500 will be good. I'm not blowing steam either. The LS has been good for 15 years. Toyota knows that Lexus' reputation rests on the LS. That said, I'm very optimistic.

mikegiller · June 2005

I spent a little time seeing what the LS 500 would look like if I simply simplified the sketch by adjusting it to make it less busy with lines going through it every which way... here it is... (I think it looks better

)...

WHAT A SEXY BEAST!!!
In black with tinted windows.. WOW!!! Can't wait to test drive and pick it up!

xerok00l · June 2005

oac, is this the Best Car issue you were talking about?
http://response.jp/issue/2005/0609/article71435_1.images/88508.html

oac · June 2005

Not quite.

The issue is the 06/26/2005 publication. Besides the yellow car, there is an Infiniti M (Fuga), Subaru Imprezza, GS450h, etc on the cover page. All of these are missing in the cover page on the link you show here.

chris65amg · June 2005

Thank you for removing the lines. It looks a lot better. It's a good lookin car. Of course, we'll have to see the tail end to be sure, and it better have appropriately sized wheel arches, unlike the S-Class.

syswei · June 2005

Kevin,

Is the Century going to be coming to the U.S. in some form?

lexusguy · June 2005

I think the next LS is going to be a real stunner. The 2001 LS430 was a some what evolutionary step over the LS400. The LS460 should really take things to another level.

rgsw · June 2005

Here's hoping they don't screw up the gas mileage.

mikegiller · June 2005

It would be great if you can as well provide some info on your development of the Century and its V-12 as you and your team are working on if. I am as well very interested on the evolution of this car and owning.

chris65amg · June 2005

""Here's hoping they don't screw up the gas mileage.""

I hope they don't. Doesn't the current LS get something like 18-25 or so? That's really good for a land yacht (affectionate name for large luxury sedans).

rgsw · June 2005

I believe that I have 22MPG on 5000 miles city/country driving so far. On the way to Denver from Albuquerque, I got almost 29 mpg (tailwind) and 24 mpg (headwind) on the way home. Very good for a strong V-8. I don't really want any more horsepower.

nvbanker · June 2005

It's not that big, chris - it just has a V-8. The current Town Car will beat those numbers.....and it's big.

maxhonda99 · June 2005

Yeah, the Town Car may get better MPG figures than a LS430, but how much power does that thing have, BTW??? There is a huge disparity there.

lexusguy · June 2005

There's also the fact that its a Lincoln Town Car, probably the biggest joke in the luxury auto biz.

chris65amg · June 2005

""It's not that big, chris - it just has a V-8. The current Town Car will beat those numbers.....and it's big.""

No it won't. The Town Car is rated at 18/25 and the LS430 is also rated at 18/25. Considering that the LS430 makes 290 hp and the Town Car makes only 239 also makes the LS430 a much stronger car. The Town Car is outclassed. Also, the LS is a big car. Granted, not as big as a Town Car, but still big nonetheless. The Town Car also still uses the old 4-speed when many land yachts have 5 or 6 speeds.

Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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