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But then again the 3800 may stick around until the new LaCrosse comes out?
~alpha
1. Last summer we looked at replacing my wife's car. I test drove the Lacrosse, comparing 3.8 and 3.6. To my surprise I liked the 3.8 better. Plus it was cheaper, a bit lighter and had better fuel economy. Admittedly my focus is on normal driving, not winding it out to the max. And maybe I was swayed by the price. But I honestly did not see a clear advantage to the 3.6 - certainly not one that would justify a noticeable price increase. We passed on the Lacrosse, mostly due to small back seat, but I was left wondering what is the big plus for the 3.6? Surely a second or two in the quarter mile can't be the reason - at least not for normal driving.
2. My second observation is about engines and performance. From 1994-97 I worked in Germany. Before going overseas my daily commuter car was a Mercedes 190 with a 2.3 liter four. When we arrived in Germany I bought a new BMW coupe as a commuter. But for my wife, the company had a deal on a Mercedes E Class station wagon with a 2.3 four. The engine looked just like the one in my old 190. This car had been driven for less than a year by an executive they transferred to the U.S. It was well equipped, with a rear facing third seat and self leveling suspension. We bought the car and drove it four years, with a lot of touring, including the Alps and high speed autobahn driving - sometimes with the seats full. It turned out to be a great car - even with the 2.3 liter four. I admit, it was not "quick" (I stayed out of drag races). But it accelerated adequately and would run comfortably at 100+ MPH (the car was more comfortable than I at those speeds, but we did some of that when traffic permitted). Since then I have been amazed at the HP race that is going on.
I should also say that my daily driver is an '04 325 BMW coupe with a standard shift. It has a modern engine and I do enjoy the engine in it. I also like the stability control, sophisticated steering, etc. and would have liked to see them on the Lucerne. But for the Lucerne I'm thinking the 3.8 will be fine..
Bottom line, I am having trouble understanding the fuss about the 3.8 and the call for the 3.6. With your experience in the industry can you summarize for me the real operating advantages of the 3.6 over the 3.8?
So many GM decisions make it seem that they have a death wish.
Different expectations, I guess. I drove two LaCrosse back -o-back, one with the 3.8 and the other with the 3.6. My conclusion was that the 3.6 was as strong as the 3.8 off-the-line and stronger in highway passing. Besides, the 3.6 was smoother and sounded better.
I have a Bonneville 3.8 and an Intrigue 3.5 and in these cars one engine is good where the other lacks. The 3.6 was the best of both, IMO, lacking in no usage range.
240 hp out of 3.6 L vs 200 out of 3.8L
DOHC gives quieter performance
DOHC if you rev them up give great performance, however the 3.8 gives great torque performance at low RPM where most drive.
You could use a 3.2L with 200 hp and get better mileage than the 3.8L
Also because many "feel" a DOHC is the best way to go for them when in actuallity the new 3.9 with VVT is enough to meet almost all customer expectiations.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=8025
It is good to hear from someone with experience with both engines. I'm expecting (or at least hoping) the 3.8 will be fine for us, given our expectations.
Here are its characteristics that I like a lot: low-end torque, low mileage, low oil consumption, idle rumble.
This si the first Bucik I've ever found captivating, at least from teh exterior. Then again, I really like the 2002 Q45, and the two look a lot alike.
I give, what are you talking about? I looked at the radio on the Buick website and wonder?
BTW, this 6 speed transmission that many are talking about, is that slated for the Lucerne?
I saw a base model today and the 16" wheels look too small for this car, they do not fill the wheel wells at all.
Why do you mention bench seat? Is it a bad looking design?
I receive C&D electronically and was just re-reading their March review of the Lucerne. They picked a dull gray car with a dull gray interior, yet the car is stunning in many of the other colors - the light blue with the blue and gray interior, the cranberry red, and so forth. By the way, who else is glad to see more colors than than tan, gray, and black creeping back into the interior selections?
I rented a DTS for three days several months ago and did not like the jumpy initial throttle response, hints of torque steer, and the fact that I had to lean way far out the driver's door to grab the handle and close it (I'm not short). I did like the nice, but quiet V8 rumble.
The Lucerne looks better, although the lack of the telescoping steering wheel which does go into the Cadillac coming down the same assembly line may make for a less than comfortable seeting position. Of course, it would not be difficult to swap in the Cadillac part, although it is downright silly that GM does not make it standard, as many much less expensive GM cars have it. If they felt they had to, they could make it an extra cost option.
The Lucerne comes with (standard or optional) a nice assortment of very helpful little features such as a dimming exterior mirror and rain sensing wipers. I'll find time to really get a good test drive some time in the next few weeks.
I am tired of waiting for Ford to upgrade teh Five Hundred and Montego, and the Lincoln MKS will apparently not be out for until two years from now, so the Buick has a chance with me.
Forget the Avalon! Algee - sorry to hear about your bad experince with an Avalon. I also made the mistake of falling for the Toyota hype earlier this year when I bought a Sienna XLE Limited for $33,000. I had to sell the junk at a loss of over $8,000 after 4,500 painful miles driving it - the steering column tilted to one side, causing me severe upper neck and back paint, the seat was horrible (the top of the back curved forward), and the sound system was pure junk compared to that in my fully loaded (sunroof, skylight, rear seat DVD, and everything else) 2005 Mailbu Maxx which cost me just $24,003!
Splatsterhound- Thanks for the review.
I have also heard that Onstar was going to change, but I don't know when. I was initially told by a GM area rep that Onstar provided that service already, but I think you're right and the real time directions are going to be added. If that does occur, I suspect that feature will be the better way to go, given the costs.
Some Buicks and Cadillacs being built now supposedely have this feature. Upgrades to the ABS sensors and computers were needed.
Frankly OnStar has left me underwhelmed on my 03 Buick. The cost is too much for the basic "we'll notify authorities if your vehicle is able to call in after an accident if the power is still there and if you're in an area where your car car see an antenna, if..., if....
I just went to the website and found they are claiming the directions will be part of basic service ($16.95 mo) but only in certain areas. I recall when Verizon cell sharing was available in 03. It was only in certain parts of US, very certain parts. I'm not even sure if our OnStar was digital and able to do it. The idea that the OnStar may not work after 07 comes because it requires digital and GM didn't want to put digital into 03 models our OnStar wouldn't even work when the analogue/digital cell conversion finalizes.
Leaves me cold.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes, I believe cars built sometime starting in March will have the capability. Do not quote me on this, just what I read somewhere.
Having the new nav as part of the base system for all Lucernes and DTS's at the same price will make it very competitive with in car screen nav. If they keep the reup price at $17 it will sell very well since they already have a reup rate of 70%.
I just went to the website and found they are claiming the directions will be part of basic service ($16.95 mo) but only in certain areas.
Actually it sounds like legal gobbletgoop. Will have to see where it does not cover but imagine those areas will be minimal.
The new OnStar Turn-by-Turn Navigation system advantages include:
Safe, Simple Interactions:
Hands on the Wheel, Eyes on the Road: No data entry or touch screen to distract drivers from the road; OnStar Turn-by-Turn Navigation features convenient voice-guided directions delivered through the radio speakers to guide the driver turn-by-turn to the destination.
Easy to Use: Press the OnStar blue button, give the advisor an address or point-of-interest destination and directions are sent to the vehicle.
Advisor Access: OnStar advisors are available 24-hours a day, seven days a week and 365 days a year.
Smart, Intuitive System:
Route Corrections: OnStar Turn-by-Turn Navigation detects when the driver leaves a planned route and automatically offers updated directions to the destination.
Pinpoint Positioning: The enhanced GPS system utilized by OnStar’s Turn-by-Turn Navigation, is fully integrated with the vehicle’s ABS module to deliver a more precise positioning solution.
Accessible and Affordable Navigation:
Available in approximately 1 million GM cars and trucks equipped with GM’s anti-lock brake system in Model Year 2007 and will be expanded further within the portfolio in 2008.
Available at a fraction of the cost of other competitive navigation products.
Access to OnStar Services:
Unlike single-function navigation systems, OnStar Turn-by-Turn Navigation comes in addition to OnStar’s suite of safety, security and peace of mind services.
OnStar services, including Turn-by-Turn Navigation, offer advisor and system interaction in English, Spanish and French.
If I dont' like the tires after 25-30000 I might switch them early--putting up with the last 15% of tread wear I'm going to get ain't worth the cost and the lesser traction of partly worn tires if I want a different tire.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
By the way, I went online and found a place that would allow me to request quotes from multiple dealers. The best I had gotten through that route (I left my brother's dealer off that list) was 200 below invoice. I am in the Philadelphia area.
As far as ordering a car goes, if the dealer has a car in stock sort of like you want, then it is not cheaper for him to order you something else. He is still paying interest on the unsold car that you could buy right now instead of waiting for a special order to come in. Still, from my point of view, if I am buying a new car, I would really like to get mostly what I want and not take something in stock that is not at all like I want. My 2002 Seville was the last 2002 model that my dealer (now out of business entirely) had, the rest being 2003 models. The car had a premium luxury package, so was very well equipped, and I would only like to have had a six CD changer in the armrest. Actually what I would really rather have had was an equally nice station wagon, but GM does not make one.
I'm surprised to hear that any dealer would sell a Lucerne at UNDER invoice, since the only incentives they have at the moment (far as I know) are for reduced interest rate loans. I haven't shopped around the Internet looking for prices, would you tell me the website name you used to get multiple quotes? (I'm the guy who mentioned that I got a quote locally for $300 OVER invoice.) Thanks.
re your mention that you didn't see that the nav is going to be available: I received an email reply from GM the other day that included the following "The Navigation System for the 2006 Lucerne will be available to order approximately in March or April 2006."
Also, it is my understanding that GM has reduced the price on the car as of early January. My retail price was about 39,500, but they sold it to me for somewhere in the range of $2,000 less - I'll pull the paperwork out of the car if you really want to know. My understanding was that the retail price dropped about $1,500, so I would think that the invoice price would be reduced as well, but I may be mistaken there. I'd definitely try to determine whether the GM reduction in sticker price also represents a reduction in the invoice price. The check I wrote to pay for the car, including taxes and tags, was $39,264.