Buick Lucerne

imidazol97 · January 2006

LeSabre

jerrymcshane1 · January 2006

Priced a $40K Lucerne. Quote was 94% of the sticker. Which of course I laughed at. Now GM thinks they can screw everyone into the ground? Maybe they should go BK after all. Like I would pay $37.5K for a car that's going to worth 1/2 that in 3 years.

rake2 · January 2006

Rear defogger button, at least on CXS, is the center of the dial for selecting which blowers to use, on right hand side under radio.

nextone · January 2006

I have no problem reading the Head Up Display on my 2005 Corvette when wearing Maui Jim polarized lenses. And there's no bump in the dash either. The HUD is one of those options you don't care about until you have one. I also used to think heated seats were just for folks who live in Minnesota and Alaska. Now they're a requirement for any new car I own. I guess cooled seats, remote start, rain sensing wipers, and heated wiper fluid will be on my next must-have list.

imidazol97 · January 2006

The rain-sensing wipers are cool but they aren't habit forming. I like just turning on to the right number of clicks for controlling the wipe rate. The rare times when the moisture collects on the windshield more one minute and less the next 3 minutes and then more is only time the automatic wiper is cool-it wipes sort of when needed. Heated seats I can't remember to turn on in the garage; older LeSabre doesn't have that.

sls002 · January 2006

I like the rain-sensing wipers because they give you a slower rate than the slowest rate you can get on the intermittent type of wipers. The bad thing is that you can forget that they are on and then the low beams are on when they don't need to be. Eventually I do see the "lights on" indicator and remember that the wipers are on and that it isn't raining anymore.

I never use my heated seats, but I do turn the passengers side on if it is cold and I am giving my mom a ride somewhere.

sls002 · January 2006

Well, you can always buy a used car of any kind cheaper than a new one. Some cars do not depreciate quite as fast as others, but in general you can find an old Mercedes for 10% or so of what a new one would cost you for example. Regarding the price tag on the Lucerne, a $40,000 one is top of the line, fully equipped. The question is whether it is worth $40,000 as a new car, not what it will be worth in 3 years. If you are really concerned about depreciation, then buying older used cars is probably your best choice. But someone will have to buy the new car before it can become a used car.

imidazol97 · January 2006

I've enjoyed buying my Buicks new and keeping them 10 years and 150K miles with little in the way of maintenance. I could have bought used 2 year or 1 year old with low miles and known I was getting a good, carefully gone over car by a GM knowledgeable mechanic. But I enjoy picking the color and the options. It might cost an extra hundred dollars over the life of that car per year as opposed to buying one with some miles and keeping it a shorter time and not being able to put as many miles on it til I'm feeling it's time to say good-bye.

I paid and I played. Next car may be the 1 or 2 year old off lease or employee discount purchased car that an area lot gets. He charges a higher price and they are worth the value he gives them.

62vetteefp · January 2006

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2006-01-26-lucerne_x.htm

vanman1 · January 2006

Lucerne is on the shopping list in a couple of years when I replace my Intrigue.

chgo29 · January 2006

Can anyone tell me - The Northstar V8 - 4.6L - in the CSX - can you burn 87 octane or do you need premium fuel? Cliff

keith3 · January 2006

According to the Lucerne Brochure the base curb weights are: CX - 3764; CXL - 3969; CXS - 4013

Edmunds shows a weight of 3969 for both the V6 and V8 CXL.
It is hard for me to imagine that the V6 and V8 CXLs have the same weight. Maybe the aluminum in the V8 versus cast iron in the V6 brings the two closer together, but when I think of those big twin cam heads in the V8 and look at the equipment differences I question the figures.

I am wondering if the 3969 weight might be for a V8 CXL, with the V6 CXL something less.

Anyone out there in a position to know, or with another info source?

golfnut5 · January 2006

I signed up at buick.com to win Tiger's Lucerne. I am expecting a call any day now.

buickwins1 · January 2006

The official Buick website says the CXL V6 is 3869 lbs. CXL V8 is 3969 (100 lbs more). Also, interestingly, the official Canadian Buick website shows the Lucerne to have air lift rear suspension. Local salesman #1 new nothing about it, salesman #2 said airlift is on US cars and showed me a training book indicating that it is standard on all 3 trim lines. I ordered my CXL V6 this week, only 55 more days to go!

bigdaddycoats · January 2006

There is a review of the Lucerne CXS in the new Car and Driver. Overall a fairly positive review.

Also, good review of XLR-V - really liked it. And Trailblazer SS beat out the Grand Cherokee SRT8 in a head to head comparo.

keith3 · January 2006

Thanks for the info on weights. With all the analysis I've done, I do not see how I missed seeing it on the Buick site.

"I ordered my CXL V6 this week, only 55 more days to go!"

About the 55 days, what kind of info did dealer give you about delivery? We ordered ours 18 Jan. and our dealer said that he would not know about delivery time until the car was actually scheduled for build - he guessed five to eight weeks. I was wondering what others have been told.

fin · January 2006

The booklet given out by Buick dealers to prospective buyers here in Georgia gives weights as: CX 3764, CXL 3969 (v8), and CXS 4013. Obviously the v8 is heavier and there are some other minor things. Still, this entire line seems a little heavy and that shows up in the gas mileage numbers.

sls002 · January 2006

If one digs into GM's websites far enough one can find that the cxl v6 weight is 3869 lbs.

1487 · January 2006

whomever stated that it would take a lot of effort to install the 6 speed in current cars is mistaken. The Aura is the same as the G6/Malibu/9-3 which means the 6 speed could go in any of those cars although the 9-3 already has a 6 speed auto. Seeing as though the G6/Malibu have a four speed that is shared with other GM FWD cars I would assume that the 6 speed can be put in those cars as well. I don't see any reason the Lacrosse or Lucerne couldnt get a V6 and 6 speed combination. What you wont see is the V8 and a 6 speed anytime soon.

The USA today article was very positive.

buickwins1 · January 2006

About the 55 days, I asked several salesmen in person and over the phone. The answer was always the same, 6 to 8 weeks(42 to 60 days) for a customer order. My order went in on Jan. 23rd. At that time I asked about the possibility of my car coming in sooner, the salesman smiled and shook his head and said the minute we hear anything we will let you know via E-mail (my car was an internet purchase).

chgo29 · January 2006

I'm still hoping for a response to post #714. Does the Northstar V8 require premium fuel (high octane) or can you burn 87 octane? Cliff

buickwins1 · January 2006

the V-8 does NOT REQUIRE premium fuel.however,its use is required to get the EPA STATED MILEAGE.

(OR CLOSE TO IT)

keith3 · January 2006

OK, thanks, that's the same story as I have. I'm coming to believe that it is true.

keith3 · January 2006

For what it is worth, I went through this exercise when evaluating an Avalon against the Lucerne for my wife. I use premium in my car (BMW 325) but she simply does not want a car that requires it.

The Avalon sales person told us that there would be a slight but not noticeable drop in performance using regular. I looked in the Avalon owners manual and it clearly said that operation on Regular is OK but there we might notice some performance loss. I assume the Buick manual has a similar statement since literature says premium is recommended but not required. With the Lucerne we did not get into this since we did not want the V8.

Car and Driver magazine did a story on this in November 2001. They tested with a couple of high output cars that "require" premium (BMW M3 and a Turbo SAAB). Both ran fine on regular but lost 6% to 10% of power as the engine management systems adjusted to the lower octane. I do not remember if they checked the gas mileage.

buickwins1 · January 2006

i agree with what you are saying .most f cars apear to be more fuel efieciant,however they are smaller, lighter andrequire premium fuel.avalon fell of my list.i have 2 3800s 110000k, 150000k i am happy i can get 1 more.they run great on reg big diff on premium much more power.most buyers are to busy to researce.they follow the crowd.i am looking forward to the arival of my CXLV6 it will be a long wait and well worth it!

imidazol97 · January 2006

Are you sure there was really more power? I have tried premium fuels and didn't really notice a difference.

I think it is the same kind of feeling of better running I get after I wash and wax the car and it looks great. When I drive it the car seems to run better.

I also don't notice a difference in mileage. I used midrange to Nashville and back at Christmas and didn't get a different reading; if anything, it was lower because of the colder weather.

dieselone · January 2006

If the engine in you car/truck isn't designed/tuned to use premium, you won't notice/see any difference. If anything, you could actually lose performance/mileage since higher octane fuels have higher resistance to combust.

I used to have a Nissan Pathfinder that recommended premium for max performance in the 3.5L v6. I would burn regular and notice a very slight performance difference. It would lose just a touch of responsiveness. When I'd tow with it, it was quite obvious if I was running regular, cause I could continually hear the engine begin to ping until the electronics re-adjusted the timing etc. So I would always use premium when towing.

As long as the manual states something like "premium recommended" and not required, you won't hurt anything by using regular.

blckthree · January 2006

I took a Lucerne out for a test drive over the weekend. It was a V6 CXL (memory fails me, the upscale model, not the cheap model). I searched GMBuypower looking for a V8 model, but those are hard to come by around here. The only one I found was sold, but they had another coming in.

I took the V6 model out just to see how it felt. I could also not find one with the bucket seat console option. First off, let me say that the fit and finish of the car looked very good. The interior wasnt breath taking, but it wasnt terrible either. A slight improvement over a typical GM interior. My first impression upon sitting it the car.. they have made a better looking LeSabre and changed the name. Upon driving the V6, I was sure they had made a better LeSabre. If that was their intention, they have a great car on their hands. It was not a great car for me though. The steering was slow and had no feel to it, the ride was a nice soft ride, but the car just had no passion to it. It didnt say buy me. The 3800 seemed sluggish and underpowered.

After that drive I would like to try a V8 CXS model with the upgraded suspension, brakes, and tires. That very well might be a nice car, but since I cant find one, I dont know.

On a positive note, the looks of the Lucurne were enough to get me to look at a Buick. It doesnt look like they have strayed enough from the LeSabre design to cost them sales. And maybe the V8 CSX will actually bring a younger buyer to the showroom. Overall, I would say the Lucerne is a well put together car, nicely optioned, and a good car for the market that is looking for a nice comfortable highway cruiser. It would do and admireable job of that.

Mike

sls002 · January 2006

I have a 2002 Seville LS with the 275 hp northstar, the same V8 as the Lucerne. My owners manual states that one should use at least 87 octane fuel, but that premium will give better performance. I have experimented with some regular, but I live in a high altitude zone and our regular is 85 octane. What I found was that the shifts are somewhat sluggish on regular fuel, but otherwise fuel consumption seems no different. From my point view, with a 20 cent per gallon difference in price, premium will cost about $100 more for 500 gallons of fuel, which will take me about 10,000 to 12,000 miles in local driving.

buickwins1 · January 2006

yes, i am sure.I have tried mid range fuel did not notice a diff over reg..premium is a diff story. I have driven this 3800 for 12 years, 110K miles,and can say its performance is much better on a diet of premium. others will come along & disagree. :mad:

vic10 · January 2006

If the aversion to premium is relative to mid-grade, there shouldn't be an issue. My 300C averages 1.5 mpg better with premium than with midgrade (though I've read where other owners report no difference). The premium is running 10 cents more per gallon but but with the better gas mileage, running premium is cheaper with each tankful. And the engine seems to run peppier.

imidazol97 · January 2006

What car is your 3800 in? I trust that you've done enough tests that you have found an improvement. I usually run a half tank fillup and then another fill up on one grade. The second fillup is mostly that new grade.

buickwins1 · January 2006

the car i am talking about is a 1994 bonn SLE 3800-170 HP.regardless of which motor one chooses (V6 / V8)both will run well on reg/prem . my choice of fuel will be based on extensive testing.(53 days to go!),max i hope.

evandro · January 2006

I have driven this 3800 for 12 years, 110K miles,and can say its performance is much better on a diet of premium.

At this mileage, there may be carbon deposits in the combustion chamber that may cause pinging unless higher grade gas is used. When there's a ping, the computer will delay the spark, thus sapping power. Using a higher grade gas then avoids pinging, thus keeping its rated power.

However, when flooring, until the computer reacts and actuates the injectors, there may be lean mixture for fractions of a second, which tends to ping, thus limiting power. Therefore, even in cars which require regular, a higher grade gas would help in these situations.

Whether 10 or 20c extra and potentially lower mileage, due to the higher flash point of higher grade gas, is worth more power in these fractions of a second is up to the owner.

HTH

sls002 · January 2006

Here mid-grade is ethanol. While it is only 10% ethanol, ethanol increases fuel consumption.

buickwins1 · January 2006

great, thanks for the info. my desion to use prem was based on testing i did in my first year of ownership.never a ping .is it possible by using prem i avoided carbon build-up.?

buickwins1 · January 2006

does anybody out there know were i can buy a buick hat & t-shirt?

62vetteefp · January 2006

Dealerships

imidazol97 · January 2006

Is it true that ethanol useage helps clean out the deposites in the combustion chamber?

Also using premium is said to leave more deposites behind than the regular if the car's meant for regular.

splatsterhound · January 2006

A few days ago I was able to take back to back test drives of a new higher content Avalon and a CXS Lucerne from the same dealership (Yup, Toyota and Buick). I took out the Avalon first, which had the advantage of sitting inside the showroom. The interior: nice, very airy and inviting. The techy dashboard doors were pretty cool, but I wondered how long they would stay working, esp. with children. One kid doing the kind of things that little kids do and...crack. The Avalon drove nicely, but there was the dreaded Toyota transmission stumble. Punch the gas in first or second gear and there is a big hestitation, then it goes pretty good. The first gear acceleration is heavily tamped by traction control. The worst thing: SEATS! They are very hard, almost like boards under the leather. The Avy sounded like a 4/6 cylinder. Nice in the high end revs, but pretty weak down low. Overall: A 7 out of 10.

Then the Lucerne. Inside was not as techy, and seemed almost a bit old-school. But, there were no folding/hiding doors. Lots of technical info (mpg/trip/engine data), but you have to access it. Seats were MUCH BETTER. Very soft leather yet firm. My daughter who was with me liked the back seats much more on "Car Two". (She didn't like the Av. seats either in the back.) The difference between the Av. and teh Lucerne v8 is immediate the moment you turn the key: Lucerne has an immediate rumble. It's much more prominent than I had thought it would be. I liked it very much. Not loud, just there. The Lucerne's transmission shifted more quickly and assertively. It may only have four speeds, but it's a much better unit. The toyota has more speeds, but the buick has better quality. On the road, the Lucerne tracks better. It feels more stable and it FEELS quicker off the line. I wouldn't doubt that the Avalon will beat it in a longer drag race -- once the Toyota spools up it goes pretty good -- but I'd have no doubt which car is better for accelerating in the half second after you hit the gas: the buick.
The Lucerne was quieter at 80 mph (enough for me to carry on a normal conversation with my back-seat daughter), and quieter on a dirt road.

I came away VERY impressed with the Buick CXS. It's MUCH better than the old Park Ave/Lesabre. I'd give it a 9 out of ten, and cleary a better deal than the Avalon. (the sticker prices on the two were almost identical: 36,000)

So, good luck. Just my few cents worth....

oakwilt · January 2006

Any taller drivers, especially in the 6'6" area, have
experience with the Lucerne? How does the head and leg room
feel? Thanks

imidazol97 · February 2006

>sticker prices on the two were almost identical: 36,000)

But the Lucerne is a price to negotiate down from and the Toyo will have a ?$300? distributor fee added on--depending on your area of the country. Do I understand what I have read correctly about the addon fees?

algee · February 2006

Thank you for confirming what I have said several times on this forum and got ridiculed for it.

You'll find the road noise ( Tire/road)is also poor.

The NAV system is horrible and takes a long learning curve.

The engine is very loud and gets worse as it ages.

Those seats get worse the longer you set in them.

I drove the Lucerne and I'm sold on it too. I'm just waiting for it to get its NAV system a little later in the year and I'm getting on and getting rid of this AVALON monster. What a mistake I made.

AL

splatsterhound · February 2006

Regarding headroom: Very good in the Lucerne, (it did not have a sunroof. I hate sunroofs. I'm a little over six feet...) Not as good in the Avalon, but it had a sunroof, I brushed my head against the headliner in the Toyota. Legroom, excellent in both cars. No problem.

Regarding road noise in the Avalon: I too was really surprised how noisy it was on anything less than perfect pavement (which is 99 percent of the roads around here). On rutted roads or, worse, a dirt road, it really was loud. Very similar in noise levels to a Camry. The ENGINE is quieter at idle, but it lets out a pretty good whine at redline, and almost all real world noise levels its worse. By the way: don't believe everything about dB levels. Study sound engineering. The human ear is much more sensitive to certain pitches of the same dB. A 65 dB of one pitch can be perceived as much louder than a 65 db of another pitch. Fact is, the ears show the Buick to be much quieter on real roads than the Avalon. It is heavier, of course, and my guess is that the extra 400 pounds includes a fair bit of noise insulation.

And to price: Yes, I realize that the Buick could probably be bargained a bit more (but maybe not: the dealer I went to had a half dozen Avalons lined up and they'd sold every Lucerne they'd gotten, except for the one I drove, which had come in the day before).

I'm looking for a new car and the Lucerne is pretty sweet.

evandro · February 2006

Carbon build-up is caused mainly by rich mixture, which can happen for various reasons, but not fuel grade. Fuel quality, yes, but has nothing to do with fuel grade. As a matter of fact, the most important additives are present in all grades.

Modern cars whose engine is computer-controlled fare much better in this regard, but fuel injection components wear can throw the control off. That's why tuning every 60 or 100000mls is not a bad idea.

HTH

imidazol97 · February 2006

Actually I've heard both opinions:

The premium fuel question has been answered opposite ways by mechanics I've heard. One says he only used premium in all his cars. He has pickups, Impalas, Vettes... He owns a body shop with mechanical repair facility.

The others say that it burns slower and does not burn as completely especially in a cylinder where the compression isn't as high and the valve timing aren't optimum for it. He says it leave behind deposits.

Another comment is to use one fuel for a while then switch to a different brand which you hope has good additives. The additives often leave their own residue and changing cleans that one out and starts depositing another residue.

evandro · February 2006

Is it true that ethanol useage helps clean out the deposites in the combustion chamber?

Not really. Ethanol burns more slowly and is generates less heat than gas, decreasing the explosion temperature, therefore promoting the formation of carbon deposits.

Also using premium is said to leave more deposites behind than the regular if the car's meant for regular.

It can be true, as it's harder to ignite than regular, unless the engine has been designed to use it.

HTH

evandro · February 2006

In the days of carburetors, premium fuel had better additives to keep the engine clean. Nowadays, with all cars having fuel injection, all gas grades carry the same cleaning additive packages. The reason is liability, more than anything else.

Premium doesn't burn slower, it's actually faster, but it's ignition point is higher. In an engine designed to use regular, the compression ratio cannot be too high or pinging will occur. If premium is then used, the charge will then be a tad too cool because of the lower compression ratio, though OK for regular, making it hard to ignite. The primary result of this is lower power, resulting in higher fuel consumption as the driver's reaction is to accelerate more to get the same responsiveness he's used to. The secondary result is that it can actually promote the formation of carbon deposits due to a cooler combustion.

However, in old engines with significant carbon build-up, which increases the compression ratio a bit, premium avoids pinging, which can melt a piston and bend rods. Therefore, more carbon build-up is better than a ruined engine, at least until a mechanic can clean it up.

BTW, removing carbon build-up chemically is not as good as mechanically, which requires removing the engine heads.

HTH

keith3 · February 2006

I am a bit over 6'4" with 36" inseams and legroom is my first priority in any car I look at.

I found the Lucerne to be the best car I looked at for legroom - with the CXL power seats adjusted properly. Maybe a bit less than the 02 Envoy we are trading but better than Avalon, Ford 500 or VW Passat which were contenders.

Headroom was fine in front - without sunroof. (This is a plus of the Lucerne for me. We could get the features we wanted (e.g. heated seats with memory) without the sunroof which some others make you take as part of a package.) Rear headroom was acceptable but not great.

keith3 · February 2006

Just a follow-up to your message from Monday:

"About the 55 days, I asked several salesmen in person and over the phone. The answer was always the same, 6 to 8 weeks(42 to 60 days) for a customer order. My order went in on Jan. 23rd."

Our dealer called this morning to report that our car, which we ordered Jan. 18 was built Jan. 30. We should expect it within two weeks. Looks like we will get to test the quality of a (shudder) "Monday built" car. I hope yours comes as quickly - and that it is built Tues - Thurs.

Buick Lucerne

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