Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Buick Lucerne

1131416181932

Comments

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I just do not see that many blue lights out there. In my neck of the wood most cars are almost brand new and lots of them expensive BMW's and MB's. Seems like 1 out of 30 have blue lights as I drive around. Which competitors with Lucerne have them as standard?

    Looks like you have to pay about $35000 at BMW to get HID high beams?
  • suisun_suesuisun_sue Member Posts: 10
    I have a Lucerne on order with a SF Bay Area dealer who is selling me the car at $500 BELOW invoice (invoice matches what all pricing sources state). Dealer says that there is some kind of a 500 cash-back incentive. I have had prior experience with this dealer with a 04 Pontiac Grand Prix which I also bought at a good price. Don't know how he does it, but I don't ask a lot of questions at these prices.
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    Properly aimed and functioning HID's are far less onerous to oncoming traffic than the run-of-the-mill halogen headlamps which are almost invariably badly aimed and virtually uniformly subject to light pattern scatter.

    HID's are to halogens what halogens were to tungsten filament lighting from the 60's and 70's. They will be the norm in all cars in due time as their price drops as a consequence of the economies of volume.
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    Virtually all the higher end automobile makers offer HID lights as standard or at least optional equipment. A number of cars in the Lucerne CXS price range have them standard such as the Acura TL and in Canada even the Kia Amanti has Xenon HID's as standard equipment.

    To be a player in this niche GM should at least offer them on the CXS as an option. Nowadays people are not simply looking for their money's worth in a car; they are now looking for more than their money's worth. GM has a deep hole to crawl out of competition-wise and if their offerings are not absolutely top-of-the-line in technology, quality, and options availability, they don't stand much of a chance. They clearly dropped the ball in failing to offer HID's on the CXS.
  • dandydon2dandydon2 Member Posts: 77
    Buying a new Lucerne today at $500 below invoice seems incredible to me. Per edmunds.com there are no customer cash rebates, incentives, special lease terms or marketing support available at this time. The buick.com site mentions a $500 rebate for active duty personnel, but shows that it is not available for Lucerne. If I may ask, what was the MSRP (not including shipping charge) and the net price you paid before taxes and registration?
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    Have you actually seen the headlights in operation? I find them to be extremely bright.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    I know. But I'm not too thrilled w/ GM right now. Was told of this feature several months before car came out, and it didn't have it. Salesmen and mechanics knew nothing about it. Just as irritating, the sticker price was almost $2,000 higher than they now have as sticker - GM lowered it in early January. Seems that the earlier you bought, the worse GM treated the buyer.

    Car itself is great, however.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    If that's the difference between buying and not buying from GM, there never really was a chance that that person was going to buy one from GM because they already have a bias that would be nearly impossible to overcome.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    Seems that the earlier you bought, the worse GM treated the buyer.

    Not always. I wouldn't buy the Bonneville I bought in late 2001 right before it was phased out a few months ago. Its price crept to a price level where it was out classed by similarly priced competition.
  • suisun_suesuisun_sue Member Posts: 10
    I think the 500 back may be a dealership thing, not a Buick sponsored rebate. Again, I did not ask for an explanation, just said "OK". I have the order sheet, which is from the GM order program (GM AutoBook), and all prices, MSRP and Invoice, match exactly with publicized numbers. The Lucerne I ordered is a CXL V8, pretty-well loaded and with premium paint. Its MSRP is 34665, Invoice 32260.68, and my net price 31760.68. These numbers all include the Destination Charge of 725, but not tax and license.
    The other unusual thing about this deal is that I did not have to negotiate one iota to get this price. I simply called into the Dealer's Internet Sales Rep (listed on the Buick and GM BuyPower websites), said I was interested in ordering a Lucerne with so-and-so options, and what would be the price? After some iteration with the GM order program to ensure that we had the correct set of options, he gave me the price as 500 below invoice. Done deal.
    Again, I had prior experience with this dealer when I bought a Pontiac GP there 2 years ago. However, in that case I went through CarsDirect.com. Even then I got what seemed to be a very good deal. But considering that CarsDirect had to get something out of the deal, I didn't know how good it could be by going straight in as I did this time.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    I was speaking specifically of the Lucerne. Sorry for any confusion I caused there. All I know is that if I'd buy it now, instead of in December, I'd get more car for about $2,000 less.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    Good job.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    ???c/o vehicle.????

    Time for a definition please.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Sorry, carry over vehicle. Should have said past models which would have been the Lesabre and Park Avenue which were mainly bench seats. I do not have the numbers anymore but I would guess they both had about 90% bench seats (non buckets).
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    I believe the divided 60/40? seats with armrest folddown were standard and the 40/20/40? with a large console with cubbies and platforms oriented toward business users was an option IIRC. I assume the same was true in PAs.

    Bench seats were very comfortable. I personally dislike mandatory bucket seats. If I wanted that choice I'd buy another Mustang (I owned two).

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Yes but you are in the minority now. There are very few cars that offer bench type seats. I can name 3 GM's-LaCrosse, Lucerne and Impala. And they are actually bucket seats with a seat/console in the center. The Avalon gave up a few years ago. The Ford 500 does not offer. Crown Victoria is standard with bench type.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I agree that HIDs should be available on the Lucerne but they are not a critical safety feature. If they were they would be standard instead of optional on most luxury cars. HIDs arent even standard on cars like the STS or E class. They are a nice feature to have but unless you live in the boondocks they arent going to make much of a difference. The lucerne should offer them simply because other cars in it's class offer them. That said GM is interested in keeping some type of separation between Cadillac and Buick. If the Lucerne offered every feature the DTS offers for less money no one would buy the Caddy.
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    If the Lucerne offered every feature the DTS offers for less money no one would buy the Caddy.

    Does the availability of HID headlights on the Nissan Maxima for thousands less mean no one buys the Infiniti? I think not.

    The issue of HID headlights is not merely a "nice" feature. They are a critical safety feature. They do not simply provide brighter, more natural light (more like daylight and less like yellowish-orange light), they provide a wider, uniform beam which far better illuminates both the outside of the road and the inside, right and left, than do old timey halogens, their gross superiority over which has not quite yet caught up with market consciousness. In time, they will be looked upon as essential safety equipment, the same as airbags and door side intrusion beams are now. Is it not more important to prevent an accident than to survive it?
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    You are greatly overstating the significance, as most accidents that occur at night don't happen when you hit something that was dark. And the fact that those lights do tend to distract oncoming drivers certainly leads to an argument against their safety. As I've said before, if your decision is based on the headlights, you're looking for an excuse not to buy it, especially if you haven't driven the car to evaluate the lights.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    >The issue of HID headlights is not merely a "nice" feature. They are a critical safety feature.

    I agree they are a safety factor but in the negative. They blind on-coming drivers with their glare as the car's angle change up and down causing extra bright glare in other driver's eyes and then dropping in brightness after the pupils have constricted.

    They need to be banned along with the malaligned "fog" lights that are on many cars and are badly adjusted as if they actually helped visibility at all.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    I agree they are a safety factor but in the negative. They blind on-coming drivers with their glare as the car's angle change up and down causing extra bright glare in other driver's eyes and then dropping in brightness after the pupils have constricted.

    They need to be banned along with the malaligned "fog" lights that are on many cars and are badly adjusted as if they actually helped visibility at all.


    Utterly ridiculous and emotional statements exactly parallel to the sorts of things stated about halogens at the time of transition to them from the then conventional incandescent lights. Properly functioning HID's are substantially less "blinding" to oncoming drivers than conventional halogens or fog lights which are almost invariably improperly aimed and even when not improperly aimed are more subject to light scatter compared to the HID's which have mechanisms in place to make sure the lights are not aimed too high for the specific purpose of not blinding oncoming drivers. Why do you think the popularity of HID's is increasing worldwide, because they are dangerous??!

    I personally live in an area where there are many HID's on oncoming cars and I find them considerably less hard on the eyes than halogens. I would not buy another new car without them.

    But don't take my word for it. The Journal of the Illuminating Engineering Society of North America in its Volume I Number 4 April 2005 issue published an article in which it was concluded that " . . . the photometric performance of the current HID low beams is superior to that of the current tungsten-halogen low beams."

    http://www.iesna.org/leukos/Volume1/number4.cfm

    They produce less eyestrain while providing greater visibility and at reduced energy consumption than halogens and are objectively clearly the next logical progression of the automotive lighting continuum and are generally considered in all ways superior to halogens except for cost. Which is why the Buick Lucerne does not have them. If GM is going to outcompete the competition, they need to get with the program rather than hawking the technology of yesteryear to the biased and the misinformed. If I can buy a car with HID lights for the same or lower price than a car like the Lucerne CXS, I will go for the former every time. Quite frankly, even if the HID's were on a car that cost more than the Lucerne, they are worth the price. But when the car actually costs less, such as in the case of the Nissan Maxima or Acura TL or Lincoln Zephyr, all three of which have the HID's either standard or at least available, the Lucerne is simply not on the playing field.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    PLEASE give it up. The Lucerne does not have HID. Do not buy it if you care that much. Right now the Lucerne is the 2nd hottest car at GM.

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060306/AUTO01/603060373/1148-

    I will say the NHSTA is investigating the HID's right now for blinding oncoming cars. I really doubt anything will happen though.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Member Posts: 468
    The so called bench seat in the Lucerne is of no use to a third passenger, but it does have one advantage: the arm rest between the seats is better placed than in the bucket models where it is too far back. Also, if you like to spread your legs horizontally while driving, the bench has more space. I guess that makes two advantages. Of course, the bucket, floor shifter models look more modern.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    I can't see how the cars going down the road with blue lights can all be aimed wrong? In Illinois these headlights are illegal and I have read of beemers (BMW) owners getting tickets from the state police.

    I hear that cheap painted bulbs sold in stores are part of the problem with these kids putting them in there compact cars and cruising along without a clue.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    >Utterly ridiculous and emotional statements

    I beg your pardon.

    >They produce less eyestrain while providing greater visibility and at reduced energy consumption than halogens and ar

    Less eyestrain for the driver of the car but not the case for the oncoming driver as the car's angle changes or they're not properly aimed downward enough!!! They get blinded and then the brightness drops and then rises again as the car bounces.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    Thank you for proving your bias.
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    The problem with HID lights has little to do with Lucerne and a lot to do with the light mounting, curving, bumpy and narrow roads and the eyes of the oncoming driver.

    Yes, HID's put out over twice the light of halogens and look more blue than white or yellow. Properly aimed, they improve things for the driver. But the sheer brightness and the dark/light contrast are distracting to oncoming traffic. These lights are also very hard on the eyes of most people over 50 years old (like me) due to the eye aging process.

    It will be several years, and probably require several changes to the standards for HID lights, before anyone can prove the safe/unsafe factor. They are too new and to few at this point in American driving. Europe has different roads, roadsigns, lighting standards, etc., so a comparison will not work here.

    Bottom line: Today, HID's are no reason to buy, or not buy, any car. But it would be good for GM if Lucerne made them optional to appeal to a wider market. The Lucerne is still on my short list....
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    I also would much prefer the 40-20-40 seats, as I am looking at a Lucerne for business use, and could keep a small box of hanging file folders in a handy location in front by removing the bottom cushion of the middle 20% seat section.

    However, the CXS has so many other things which are not available on the CXL V8 (4-way lumbar support, fog lights, turn signal mirrors, 18" wheels, magnetic ride control, and chrome exhaust outlets), I am focusing on it. Too bad that GM does not offer the 40-20-40 seat on the CXS, as it would cost them nothing to do so (in fact, they would make a bit more profit from the cars ordered with it, as it is an extra cost option).

    Interior storage does seem to be a weak point on the Lucerne. Compare it with a Montego / Five Hundred which has large door pockets with bottle holders, and a nice storage compartment on top of the dashboard. The rear seat back does not fold, a significant oversight on a car as expensive as a Lucerne.

    Also, HID head lights and LED tail lights are standard on the Montego, and should also be standard on the significantly more expensive Lucerne, especially the CXS.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    I have had 3 LeSabres, predecessor to the Lucerne, and have never once wished I had a folding rear seatback. I do find the armrest pass-through to the trunk has been used twice in 3 years.

    I never cease to be amazed at the criticism some will give on a car for its lack of a particular, small market-if any market, option, especially if it's an American brand car.

    I notice my LeSabres have all had reclining front seats, a great option. They have had a large trunk for carrying "things." There are many other features standard that I probably won't get on a lesser car if I purchase one, new or used, next. E.g., a glove box light that turns off and on with the glovebox door-Accords have a light that's on only when the headlights are on and that's all the time. Turn the headlights on at night and the glovebox light is on whether you open it or not.

    HID headlights are offensive to oncoming drivers because of the extreme brightness and the differential in the brightness as the car dips and changes angle relative to the oncoming driver's eyes. The headlights on my 03 LeSabre are more than adequate for driving 99% of the time. Other times I use the high beams.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    My car, a FWD Seville, has projector beams for the low beams (or I think that is what they are. Anyway, they cut off the light so that when aimed properly, light on low beam does not shine into the on-coming cars windshield. I can tell when I drive over bridges or even shining on the walls in the garage. I would hope that HID lights are designed in a similar fashion.
  • vic10vic10 Member Posts: 188
    So, after reading the epic stories on HID's, is it safe to assume that the car thieves have moved on to something else, unlike in 2005 when they were ripping out the front ends of Maxima's to get at the headlights....and my car dealer strongly recommended that I NOT buy them if I was living in or parking in a large U.S. city...???
  • fzhou99fzhou99 Member Posts: 1
    I agree! These lights are very bright and irritating to other drivers (especially at night and when a car is on your rear with the light on you all the time)

    Better convenience for the driver but not other people - typical of rich people let me go ahead of you mentality
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    The lights on my 03 LeSabre are different in brightness from my 1998 LeSabre. The 03 is fine. I don't need to blind on-coming drivers to see myself. If I'm overdriving the lights and need brighter ones at night, I probably should slow down.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    My comments address only the lighting issue, vic10. Theft of the light itself, as you mention, is another problem. No doubt some people will not buy a car with HID's just because of the potential theft of the units, as with the Maxima. But some don't care. They want the lights.

    Again, theft is a problem waiting to be solved. As someone posted above, HID's are probably the "light of the future" so someone needs to make them more theft resistant. All ideas would be welcome at Nissan, GM, Toyota, etc....
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    I found a CXS equipped exactly as I thought I would want it (all options except the sun roof and navigation), including the discontinued glacier blue exterior and tuxedo interior. Before seeing that car, my wife and I stopped at the nearest Buick dealer just to look at Lucernes in general. We have very briefly sat in one before, but it was still wrapped in shipping materials, and we saw one at the auto show. This time we looked more closely.

    First, I am looking for a car for business use. We carry a full-sized digital camera, files and papers, and other things, plus tools and equipment to inspect buildings for toxic materials. Real estate agents, insurance adjusters, and various other business people would have similar needs. People traveling and families with children also need places to keep things.

    Five things ended our consideration of the car:

    1) The lack of interior storage, something especially strange for such a large car. The center console is tiny, the glove box is tiny, and the door pockets are small and shallow, so things would fall out. It is quite a contrast to something like a Ford Five Hundred / Mercury Montego with large door pockets with bottle holders, a large glove box, a very handy compartment on top of the dash board, and a nice big center console.

    2) The trunk is not big enough for my 15' Little Giant ladder (55" x 22" collapsed). I could replace it with a shorter ladder, but again, the ladder fits in the Montego with no probelms.

    3) The back seat does not fold, so carrying the bulky items we sometimes need to tote for work or personal tasks would be difficult or impossible. Again, the Montego and many other much less expensive vehicles, such as the GM Chevrolet Impala, have slit folding rear seats.

    4) There is torque steer. While the Northstar V8 sounds nice, it is very jumpy, as it appears to be programed to be very sensitive upon initial throttle application. My guess is that they want it to seem faster than it is. Still, the engine is powerful enough that I could overlook the four speed automatic. However, torque steer is just not acceptable in a car which, even with a price well under sticker, would have cost me $35,000 plus taxes. Where is the rear wheel drive and/or the all wheel drive?

    5) The fuel mileage from the 4.6 V8 is not very good, and they want owners to run it on premium. Why? Other engines do better. For example, the Ford 4.6 V8 produces more power than the GM 4.6 V8 and is designed to produce full power and mileage on regular.

    The positives are the availability of cooled seats, a dimming exterior mirror, rain sensing wipers, and the electronically adjustable suspension dampers (shock absorbers).

    I have a car with On Star now, and it is OK, but Bluetooth would be superior, as the cellular minutes on my Cingular phone are less expensive and there are are forwarding options not available with On Star. XM radio is good, but XM or Sirius radio is available in just about any car from the factory or as a simple aftermarket addition.

    My wife does not like the "whale mouth," as she interprets it, front end. We both think that the fake wood looks far worse than that in the Malibu, a far less expensive car.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Well, I own a Seville with the Northstar engine and same drivetrain, torque steer is nearly nonexistant compared to my 83 Buick Skyhawk. Compared with the 95 supercharged Riviera I had, the northstar has almost no sensitivity from a dead stop. I can start off on icy roads without engaging the traction control. As for fuel consumption I average about 29 MPG on long trips.
  • suisun_suesuisun_sue Member Posts: 10
    That certainly is a thoughtful evaluation of negative points about the Lucerne. I have looked at the Ford Five Hundred and it indeed has a lot of attractive ergonomic features. I do however have to discount your comment about the Northstar. Most auto reviews give the Northstar power train high marks, and it seems to have a very good reputation. As for the "whale mouth" grille, that is a styling cue that is as individual as the clothes one likes to wear. I personally like the whale mouth grille as it is the one thing that says "Buick".
  • rooskierooskie Member Posts: 26
    I just finished a three-day stretch in a V-8 Lucerne and didn't notice the slightest bit of torque steer. Just to make sure I wasn't paying attention, I read two professional reviews of the Lucerne V-8, both of whom drove the car extensively, and neither one of them mentioned torque steer. IMO, it does not exist, and in the reviewer's opinions, it doesn't exist , either.

    As for premium gas, it is "recommended" for maximum performance on the V-8, but not "required". My Supercharged 3800 Buick recommended premium, but I used regular for over 100k miles without a problem. The V-8 will run just fine on regular, with no harm at all. If that's being used as a reason not to buy one, that's stretching it a bit.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    The grill on the Montego is unbalanced for the rest of the car. The headlights make it look like a tree frog. Now what is it about the Buick grill? I don't see that the Montego has a better appearance. The taillights appear oversized for the car also. That's probably a result of trying to hide the 500 that it's built from.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    I must say I disagree, in that there is a torque steer. I have over 4,000 miles on my CXS, and have noticed it. As for the sensitive acceleration mentioned earlier, I would have to disagree with that assessment. If anything, the car is a bit slow from the start, but really kicks in at about 4,000 to 5,000 rpm.

    As for the interior storage, I haven't notice a problem, although I don't carry that much stuff that I need to look at while I'm driving. The trunk, however, is the largest one I've seen since I got rid of my '68 New Yorker many moons ago.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    All FWD vehicles have a certain amount of torque steer. How well it is contained varies. RWD vehicles are better in this sense, and steering feel and precision should be better. I think that GM's big FWD sedans have well contained torque steer, but steering feel is somewhat less than great.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    The Ford 500 and Mercury are not considered luxury cars unlike the Lucerne. The Cadillac NorthStar engine is a world class engine, unlike the Ford 4.6L.

    As far as the grill goes this is Buick trademark, why change it.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    I don't disagree with you there, and I'm certainly not complaining about it. Just recognizing it does exist. Quite frankly, I wanted a front wheel drive car for days that I have to drive in the snow. Rear wheel drive cars do not handle the snow as well, and you pay for the four wheel drive option in cars that could be considered to be luxury cars.
  • lbesserlbesser Member Posts: 2
    How could GM release a nice car like this without Navigation? Even the Toyota Prius has it.
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    How could GM release a nice car like this without Navigation? Even the Toyota Prius has it.

    No HID lights, either!

    A luxury car? I think not.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Navigation should be available soon. Should be available your are right with this vehicle!

    It now does have the OnStar Navigation system which will be better for most. YOu push the button, tell the person where you want to go, they look it up and input it, it downloads to your car, and then gives you verbal commands as it watches where you go. Sweet! The only thing you do not get is a cool looking screen to imprress your buds!

    However the penetration on vehicles under $30k is almost nil. Few want to pay flr something that is almost 10% of the total costs of the vehicle!!
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The Navigation system became available for orders at the very end of February, so dealer orders for them could begin to appear in showrooms sometime in April. Or, sold orders now could get them by sometime in late April or so.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    >How could GM release a nice car like this without Navigation?

    The answer if because most people don't want it. If you want one buy the portable; they're easily updated.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    How can this not be a luxury car just because it didnt have two features at launch? Now that it has navigation I presume you are saying it isnt luxurious because it has no HIDs. In case you haven't noticed Acura is the only brand that makes HIDS standard. That means there are $50K+ Audis, BMWS, Cadillacs and MBs riding around with standard halogen lights. If those brands can sell cars at that price range without making $500 HIDs standard then please explain to me why the Lucerne isnt a luxury car because it lacks this feature. The bottom line is most luxury cars sold do not have HIDS, they are optional and many people opt not to buy them. As I said, if you live in an urban area HIDs servce little purpose other than to blind oncoming drivers. I like HIDs because they make oncoming cars look better at night, but they are not important enough to make or break a car buying decision.

    Now if we can find a Lexus or Acura that doesnt have one feature found on the Lucerne can we say that model isnt a real luxury car? The TL doesnt have cooled seats, 18" wheels, rainsense wipers or remote start but I'm sure you still think it's a real luxury car.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    >rainsense wipers

    I love rainsense wipers. There's a large part of time when mist or spray occasionally hits the windshield and rainsense wipes when it would be a pain to touch the one-swipe button or to have the wipers on longest delay where they wipe when there's nothing on the windshield. Instead it does it when it's needed. AND that sensitivity is adjustable!!!

    How could a car like the Tl not have them if it's luxury. My LeSabre has them!!!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

Sign In or Register to comment.