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Saturn Aura

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    OK folks, member merc1 has kindly created a new Saturn discussion on the Automotive News message board. That's the best place to talk about Saturn as a company, so that we can stay focused on the Aura in this discussion. Thanks!

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  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    I am in no way understating Auras impact on Saturn, and GM...

    With that said, in an age were an accord gets a voice activated Nav and sound system and the Acrua (RDX or MDS?) gets a GPS linked climate control system, and the new crysler sebring will have a 20 gig hard drive to store music and files!!!!!! It would be nice if the aura came out with a just a plain simple navigation system, at least.

    What would be cool is if all cars had hard drives in them. They would really become more like computers and would be so must more than transportation and self expression.

    For GM, comming out with a DOHC with output and features similar to its japanese competition is a huge deal. I'm not in anyway bad mouthing them. A nav system, however, at least?!
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Actually, whatever Saturn may have been, given the Aura is almost identical to the Opel Vectra, it would appear Aura is meant to compete directly with the Passat and Jetta.

    The Vectra competes quite well with the Passat and Jetta in Europe.
  • merckxmerckx Member Posts: 565
    I drove the base Aura with very few options today. I've been driving a 2001 Passat 1.8T manual shift. I was amazed how nice the Aura is...Like many car guys,I'd come to not think much of Saturn. I did miss the lack of a manual shift a little bit,but overall,I was extremely impressed. The car seemed absolutely of quality-very,very solid. For the most part,I found the interior materials very satisfying;but then,many luxury cars seem overtrimmed for my taste. The side windows are oddly narrow,with a very low roof. getting back in my VW for the ride home,this seemed the most noticeable difference. A base car is less than $21,000...This seems like an excellent value. In no way did I feel like I was in a miserly car,the way one might feel in a Focus,for example. I could heartily recommend this car to anyone-here's a car a car guy can love!
  • 1997montez341997montez34 Member Posts: 202
    Did you drive the XE or XR model?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    In case he does not answer he said base model. therefore XE.
  • 1997montez341997montez34 Member Posts: 202
    Oh, sorry. Must be past my bedtime! :)
  • merckxmerckx Member Posts: 565
    Base indeed...I usually prefer a pretty basic car...I never mind paying for quality,but sometimes the accompanying tinsel can be a bit of a turn-off...
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "Actually, whatever Saturn may have been, given the Aura is almost identical to the Opel Vectra, it would appear Aura is meant to compete directly with the Passat and Jetta"

    No. It's meant to compete with the Altimas, Camrys, Accords and Passats of the world. The Mailibu and G6 are based upon the same platform, do you think they're meant to compete with the Passat and Jetta?

    Both the Japanese and American car makers tout "European" driving feel in some of their vehicles. The TSX is an Accord designed for the European market but that car isn't meant to compete solely against European marquees
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Maybe in Europe but in these here states, the Passat is far above the Aura. Sit in a Passat and you will see. VW attention to detail is immense. Features such as a self drainging umbrella holder in the door and a car computer were you can even set how long you want the light delay to stay on when you hit the open bottom on the key fob. There is a list of "unexpected features" on another vw dedicated website that will blow your mind. The Passat can't even be had in clothe. I mean a Passat is a luxury car, period. A Aura is not.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    The author of that article is nothing more than a schill for the American automobile industry. It reads like a press release from GM. I reached my opinion on Matt boy long before this article. My intentions are not meant to disparage the Aura but to point out how much of a phony the author is.

    Try looking up his initial road test of the Saturn L. That car was flawless too. He doesn't have much credibility with me.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Wow, first I ever heard that Road and Track "schilling" for GM. Last I read they were pretty down on domestic products.

    Good thing though is that most articles on the Aura sound about the same. GM must have bought off the whole media industry.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    Gee, I thought I was talking about one individual and not the whole magazine. Agreed, most articles about the Aura are very good but not to the same degree as that R&T article.

    I'm sure when Road and Track does a more complete test that idiot won't be involved. I'm sure it will be a fairly postive road test but it won't come across as a GM press release.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    No. It's meant to compete with the Altimas, Camrys, Accords and Passats of the world.

    Uh, you disagree with me then agree with me in two consecutive sentences.

    The Mailibu and G6 are based upon the same platform,

    The Vectra is also made on the same platform. The Vectra sells in Europe where it quite clearly competes with VW.

    American car makers tout "European" driving feel in some of their vehicles. The TSX is an Accord designed for the European market but that car isn't meant to compete solely against European marquees

    Well, of course any car selling in NA wants to compete against every car in its class selling in NA. If you follow the context of the thread, the Original Poster said that Saturn ignores the Europeans. It clearly does not ignore VW. It is nearly the same as a direct VW supporter.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    VW is not a "luxury car" by any means. Camry also has high trim models, but that does not mean one will consider it as a luxury model. Real life experience with Jettas and Passats based on cars owned by people I personally know – VWs does not age very well and is cheaply constructed and made. Interior is made of lower quality material and after couple of years it looks pretty worn out and things start to fall off. I find Ford interiors being more substantial and robust. Yeah it does not look so glamorous from the beginning but does not look so aged after couple of years too. But price point is also much lower. I did not even touch VW reliability issues here – they are well known - but people who bought VWs are not very happy considering amount of money they spent and forced to spend after warranty expires basically on the “folk’s car”. It is an entry level German car and I understand if you do not have money and still want a genuine German car. But there is nothing to boast about – cheap car is a cheap car and Saturn can quite compete with VW.

    If you want luxury - buy Audi, or Caddy.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    I'm not following you.

    The Malibu and G6 are hardly cross shopped with the Passat. The point being just because a car shares its platform with a VW competitor in Europe doesn't mean that it will be a direct VW competitor over here.

    No doubt the Aura will compete with the Passat but I wouldn't say it's a direct competitor.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "VWs does not age very well and is cheaply constructed and made. Interior is made of lower quality material and after couple of years it looks pretty worn out and things start to fall off. I find Ford interiors being more substantial and robust."

    Hmmm, pretty much laugh out loud commentary. Especially when you add that last sentence about Ford.

    Volkswagen can improve in the reliability arena no doubt, but their interiors are class leading and they have superb build quality.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    You probably did not see worn out VW interiors. I assume your remark about quality of VW interior comes from sitting in brand new cars.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    The point being just because a car shares its platform with a VW competitor in Europe doesn't mean that it will be a direct VW competitor over here.

    The Aura does a lot more than share a platform with the Vectra. I believe I read where it is nearly 90% identical to the Vectra.

    No doubt the Aura will compete with the Passat but I wouldn't say it's a direct competitor.

    Well talk about not making a point. The Vectra, like the Passat, is available only as a fairly (for the price) loaded vehicle. They both have tighter suspensions than cars oriented toward the more common North American buyer. They both come with a fair amount of options.

    The three diffences I can see are 1) they are not the exact same car; 2) Saturn will undoubedtly sell more than sinking VW; 3) Saturn most likely hopes the Aura will stay out of the shop better than the Passat.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Volkswagen can improve in the reliability arena no doubt, but their interiors are class leading and they have superb build quality.

    Pretty much laugh out loud commentary. Something that breaks down all the time does not have superb build quality.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    I've owned two jettas but to be honest I never had them long enough to see if the interior wears out or if things start to break off. I have read horror stories about the Jetta's reliability to be sure, but you're the first person I have come accross who thinks they have cheap interiors.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    Something that breaks down all the time does not have superb build quality.

    A car can be put together very well with tight tolerances but still break down because of defective parts.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    I agree the Passat is a competitor to the Aura but closer competitors are the Accord V6 and Altima V6. The 07 Altima is all new with supposedly a much better interior and initial road tests indicate Nissan has eliminated the excessive torque steer. Next fall a redesigned Accord debuts. The Aura would do well to compete with these cars.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    "VW is not a "luxury car" by any means. Camry also has high trim models, but that does not mean one will consider it as a luxury model. "

    THe Camry's high end models don't push into the upward $30K mark and still sell. The Passat does. Not only that but VW offers the Passat with engine power and vehicle refinement to march into BMW levels and still make a case. The Passat is sold at higher average transaction prices than other midsizes and it should. Like I said "it can't even be bought with leature seats". And let's really talk luxury here. Go look at the interior of a VW Touregg and get back to me. I think it's interior is better than the Volvo, Lexus, Infiniti, and Mercedes SUVs in the segment and I'd dare anyone to look at one and tell me that that is not true. Luxury is about refinement, materials, and features. Here is what Edmunds had to say about the Passats features:

    "He's right. It is the car with the umbrella in the door, which is one of the features Volkswagen has been hyping in the Passat's TV ads. In fact, VW has loaded the redesigned 2006 Passat with all kinds of cool features. Literally. Besides the built-in umbrella, this midsize sedan has two cooled storage compartments, one in the glovebox and one in the front center armrest. You know, just in case you need to chill your Toby Keith."

    And here is what they had to say about the interior and pricing:

    "If you're still choking at the thought of paying nearly $37K for a Passat, take a look at the interior. It's as nice as any equivalently priced BMW or Infiniti."

    If you think that people are going to be making that statement about the Aura, I'd like to join you in this wonderland just south of Oz. The VW is on another level entirely. In baseline trim, to some extent I see the Aura comparison which coincidently is why I am cross shopping the two. But to me and basically everywhere else you read, VW is about affordable German luxury.

    "Interior is made of lower quality material and after couple of years it looks pretty worn out and things start to fall off."

    At first I wasn't even going to reply to this. You are going against all indutry reviews, regardless of publication for at least the last five years or more. VW is the industry standard and your friends over at Ford have said so in a publication when they said they'd improve their interiors and would benchmark VW. So how then are Ford interiors better when Ford abmits they aren't? I wasn't even a VW fan until the new Passat and Touregg but could not argue the quality of the materials and attention to detail. I have sat in aged VW interiors and the materials are still top notch. I don't know where you are coming from with this one, at all.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    VW has one of the best interiors for materials, fit and finish, especially if you like the german teutonic look. It is a "premium" interior but not a "Luxury" interior with wood and plushness.

    As far as the quality issue if you talk about things that go wrong VW is near the bottom of both the 2005 and 2006 JD Power Initial Quality and VDS (3 years) studies. Also near the bottom for he 2005 APEAL (Performance, Execution and Layout).
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Remember, any positive press about the Aura or another GM vehicle means the author is a biased Detroit lover. It has nothing to do with the merits of the product. Why else would any car reviewer say anything positive about a non import?

    I also disagree that the Aura can only sell on price. As noted by the Oct. '06 Automobile magazine, the Aura has style and looks better than the best sellers in this class. If people believe the Aura is a quality piece, appreciate it's handling and dont want a cookie cutter Accord or camry than they will give it a try. Of course, only independent minded car buyers are willing to step out on a limb like that and not follow the herd.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    If you have say $37 are you gonna buy VW? VW interior is a nicely painted low quality rubber and plastic that gets quickly worn out. It looks ugly after while, believe me. For your information Camry XLE interior is more durable - they choose higher quality materials and better technologies. Actually Camry XLE looks like more luxurous car than VW and costs less same time.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    "If you have say $37 are you gonna buy VW? VW interior is a nicely painted low quality rubber and plastic that gets quickly worn out."

    Okay, Edmunds, you know those car review people, said that the interior was on par with a BMW or Infiniti. How many cars have you drove versus them? I'd favor the latter. I have seen the new Camry interior and the VW is higher quality. Again you are going against all reviews no matter what publication who say that VW materials are the industry benchmark. Camry XLE DOES NOT look more luxurious and DOES NOT have as many featuresm and DOES NOT have the attention to detail and DOES NOT have as high a material quality.

    How many worn 06 Passat interiors have you been in? I have been in none. And going back to other used VWs I don't know what you are talking about.
  • sidvsidv Member Posts: 64
    Passat is a joke. Overpriced, low quality, generic and boring styling to the extent that it is nothing more than a German (or is that Mexican?) Accord.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Ok, you convinced me. Buy VW for $37,000. I would rather buy something RWD for these money with less perfect but more durable interior. Lets switch back to Aura.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I would not buy the top of the line model either but the mid grade 2.0T models that sell between $24K -$28K are beautiful cars and are loaded with value. With dealer cash that falls into the $21K - 25K range which puts it right next to the Aura on the shopping list.
  • yoribe2yoribe2 Member Posts: 65
    Does anyone know if there will be a 4-cylinder Aura available in the near future?
  • chrisl0chrisl0 Member Posts: 114
    A 4 cylinder hybrid will soon be offered but no V4. I don't think its a big deal since the base V6 gives you allot of power and 30 mpg.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Since the Aura is based on the Epsilon chassis used by the Malibu Maxx (but with trunk instead of hatch), and both are based on much of the Opel Vectra, the question rises:

    1. How many of the suspension components are the same between the Aura and the Maxx (specifically, do they use the same steering rack?),

    2. Will the Aura subcumb to the front end rattles and clunks plaguing the Malibu from '04 to this present day (visit the Malibu forum to find out more) ? The latest "fix" for this problem has been reported to break down after only 2 - 3000 miles.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "Remember, any positive press about the Aura or another GM vehicle means the author is a biased Detroit lover. It has nothing to do with the merits of the product. Why else would any car reviewer say anything positive about a non import?"

    There have been many positive reviews about the Aura and I have signaled out only one. Heck, I even posted a link to one of those positive road tests. I don't know how many times I have read from certain posters not to pay any attention to the magazines because of their bias towards foreign cars. Now all of a sudden it's about the merits of the vehicle! Just remember that when the Aura is involved in some comparison tests.

    "As noted by the Oct. '06 Automobile magazine, the Aura has style and looks better than the best sellers in this class"

    If Automobile says so it must be true. I think the Aura looks better than the Camry too. Of course, I'm not any more right than someone who thinks the Camry looks better.
  • rs9904rs9904 Member Posts: 15
    very positive review. The best gm family sedan in decades. complimentary of all aspects of the vehicle.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    All VWs are over rated. Every time I am in a VW I totally underwhelmed.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    Apparently your priorities are different than mine in a car. You have something against solid road manners and top notch workmanship?
  • npgmbrnpgmbr Member Posts: 248
    And they said the interior of the Aura "outclasses the Accord and easily rivals the Camry. This is the best car interior GM has every done." Also said "Aura is the most impressive family sedan from GM in decades".

    Very good for GM.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    You ae not the first to try and make the point about believing reviews when they are of domestic cars but calling them biased when they are talking about imports. You are missing the point. Most Honda and Toyotas are presumed to be good before the driver even turns the key. Honda an Toyota would have to make terrible vehicles to get any bad press. It is a given that whatever they put will generally be loved by the media. American cars on the other hand are handicapped with history of 20 year old barges that used to be put out by the Big 3. Any time a domestic car is viewed in a positive light it's usuallya big deal. When the Bg 3's harshest critics say one of their products I tend to give that a lot of weight. I dont give the same amount of weight to reviews of import products because I already know the merits or shortcomings of those vehicles is really irrelevant.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    we could just discuss the Aura in here, given that that's the vehicle named in the topic title? Thanks!

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  • npgmbrnpgmbr Member Posts: 248
    From a guy that rarely has anything this positive about a GM product. Warren Brown of the Washington Post

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/22/AR2006092200571.- html?nav=lsc2ac
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Actually, I think this guy is usually pretty fair.
  • bporter1bporter1 Member Posts: 229
    I sure wish GM would let GM Card holders get money off on a new Saturn vehicle. I would surely buy the Aura, a car that is pretty good for the money. :cry:
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    "Apparently your priorities are different than mine in a car. You have something against solid road manners and top notch workmanship"?

    No, I have something against overpriced cars with hard plastic all over the interior (which is cramped to begin with) and poor reliability.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    So far no word on the GM dollar amount you can use here. $1,500 max on ION so I am hoping for $2,000 max on Aura.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "It is a given that whatever they put (out) will generally be loved by the media."

    You say it's a given huh. I'll stick with reality. If anything, GM sedans are held to a different standard as in lower expectations. When GM puts out a vehicle that approaches the level of an Accord, it's a big deal. Honda with the Accord on the other hand has to put out a vehicle that's best (or among the best) in class or it's considered a failure.

    Take the new Altima, it's not getting the same buzz as the Aura even though it's just as or a more impressive car.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "No, I have something against overpriced cars with hard plastic all over the interior (which is cramped to begin with) and poor reliability."

    Yeah, Volkswagens are sure known for their hard plastics. Well we can agree that your priorities in a car are different than mine.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Is the Altima even out there? You are right, the media has said little about it. I have not seen it at the dealerships around here.

    Are you sure it has been introduced yet?

    How do you know it is a more impressive car?
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    No, I'm not sure. But the new Altima comes out sometime this Fall though. I'm more impressed with the Altima from what I have read about the two cars.

    I have seen the Aura at the dealership and plan to test drive it when I bring my car in for maintenance. The Saturn and Audi dealerships are next to each other.
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