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Saturn Aura

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Comments

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I have seen some remarks right here are Edmunds but not much meat. Looks like they had a very short test.

    All I have read about the Aura though has been good. Nissan has quite a challenger. We will see what the comparison testers say!
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    There is no buzz around the altima because its not out yet. It's pretty simple. When the car is made available to the press you will see a lot of reviews and hype around the Altima. The Altima has some impressive features but you will PAY for those features. Expect a loaded altima to be north of $30k. The Aura lacks HIDS, bluetooth and nav but it tops out around $27k. The camry on the other hand goes up to $32k or so which is probably what the Altima will reach will all the options.

    Anyone who find that the media is more open minded when reviewing domestic vehicles isnt being realistic. Even though the Aura is getting some positive press its still framed as "It's hard to believe Saturn has finally come up with a competent, attractive car after so many years of being mismanaged by GM. It's about time they actually made something that can sell on merits rather than dealership service". It's called damning with faint praise, you will find that in most reviews of GM products.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    There is no buzz about Altima because it does not look like a new car – just some improved version of existing Altima with slightly different grill. When Altima was brand new there was a lot of buzz and it even got NA COTY. IMHO press overreacted to Altima – it did not deserve all buzz that followed – average unbalanced chassis with powerful engine and cheap hard-plastic interior. I think press did not expect anything good from Nissan but was surprised to get competitive car. Of course it did not unseat Camry or Accord as midsize leader and even did not come close.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    You summed up the media's portrayal of the Aura quite nicely. But what's unrealistic about it?
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    Supposedly the new Altima has a much improved suspension and interior. And the CVT is said to work quite well. It doesn't appear to look that different as you said however.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    It is actually a problem here. Nissan saved money on exterior redesign and so shouldn't complain now nobody noticed new Altima. Toyota is able to significanly redesign cars in and out every few years. Regarding Aura - it is a revolutionary car for Saturn. It puts Saturn into my radar screen and I am sure many other who never considered Saturn before.

    It is interesting to note though that with 112 inch wheelbase Aura is still a narrow car compared to Camry/Accord/Milan. But sitting inside it does not fill cramped at all. But I still like more athletic exterior of Milan. If they only make more comfortable interior and better sound system.

    BTW did anyone check Aura's premium (if there is one) sound system?
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    Many European cars (after all this is essentially an Opel from Germany), except for the luxo cruisers, tend to be narrower by design. Travel in European city centers or on their roads - except for the autobahn in Germany - you will quickly understand the need for a slightly compromised width.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The Aura is based on the old Epsilon architecture (Malibu, G6, etc.). This architecture was designed with the larger mid size W cars (Grand Prix, Century, etc.) still out there and therefore designed to be smaller. In fact the Eps 1 architecture has been out there a while and if you look at a Camry, 2 generations ago I think you find they are similar in size. The Aura is the same width as the G6.

    Now with the W cars going away (by 2009) the new Epsilon 2 architecture will be larger and be about the same size as the Accord/Camry. Malibu will be out soon and it is a winner!
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Supposedly the 2008 Malibu will be E2. Spy pictures suggest the look is sorta like a rounded Chrysler 300, complete with lo-pro roof.

    The Aura is apparently based on the Malibu Maxx/Pontiac G6/Sabb Sport Combi/Opel Equivalent (???), with a longer wheelbase than the usual Epsilon body. Plus is more interior room. Minus is a big turning circle for the size of the car (41' plus).

    What I don't know is if the Aura is using the same suspension components the Chevrolet, Pontiac and Saab are using. The electric steering version of those has been prone to rattles, clunks and other problems. Perhaps the hydraulic version will be less prone to these problems?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Aura has the same wheelbase as the G6-112.30"

    All Eps 1 have same suspension components (but with different tuning) but there is some mix of electric vs. hydraulic steering. Aura though has hydraulic steering. G6 only has electric on the base sedan.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Is new Opel Vectra based on Epsilon 1 platform? I wondering what cars are based on Epsilon 2 and whats difference between older and new platforms?

    New Mondeo based on stretched new Focus platform (similar to Passat being based on Golf platform). Is new eplsilon stretched Astra platform?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Epsilon_platform

    Not sure but here is a link that shows something. But it is incorrect. Malibu will be out by 2008 and I am pretty sure it is on the Eps 2 platform.

    http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome.aspx?ID=55743
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Yes, Edmunds posted an article on Epsilon to E2 some time ago. The E2 platform, incidently, seems to be for sedans only in the USA(the Chevy Maxx Hatch goes bye-bye after '07).

    How this will affect the Aura, I don't know, as it would be unusual for Saturn to adopt a completely new unibody for the Aura a year into its production.

    Wrt suspension components, will have to wait and see if GM's finally fixed the rattle issues plaguing all their other EP1 cars (save, possibly, those with hydraulic steering).
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Okay. So it looks like Vectra reseived the facelift. It is interesting to know how far behind is Epsilon from new platforms from Ford and VW.
  • chrisl0chrisl0 Member Posts: 114
    When the Aura moves to the new platform will it offer AWD?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Who knows! That is at least 4 years off I would think. It could though.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    How this will affect the Aura, I don't know, as it would be unusual for Saturn to adopt a completely new unibody for the Aura a year into its production.

    Very good point. Since the Aura was just a minor revision to the European version and 2008 is the first usage of the eps 2 we will see a mixture of eps 1 and eps 2 vehicles being built at the same time. Most likely the same plants could build both platforms. Currently the Aura and Malibu are built in Kansas City and the G6 at Orion.

    Most likely one plant will be picked (or a new plant!) to start up the Malibu/Eps 2. The Malibu volume should fill most of one plant. Then the lower volume Saabs will be brought into the same plant 6 months or so later. A year later the LaCrosse will start to be built somewhere else (Lake Orion?) and then some time after that a revised G6 and then a new revised Aura.

    So possible plant splits here in the US.

    2008 kansas City? Malibu/Saabs
    2009/2010 Orion? LaCrosse/G6/Aura

    Of course one model could be built in both plants to give some volume flexibility. Probably the LaCrosse.

    Reason why above could be wrong is that they introduced Aura in Kansas. Would have made more sense to start it in Orion. Then again the plants are flexible enough that moving a car to a different plant is not as crazy as it used to be and Kansas City needed some volume untill the new Malibu came out. G6 is outselling the old Malibu.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    I thought SAAB is built in Sweden. I remember plant in Sweden was underutilized and they wanted to move production to Opel. Then came Cadillac and saved Saab.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Ye, Saab's are imported. Looks like the Eps 2 will be built in Russelheim though. In fact I recall now that the G6 convertible was supposed to be an easy development because they would just use Saab parts, but it was found that Europe had revised the Saab for their own reasons and no longer a compatible.

    So perhaps the LaCrosse will be built with the Malibu?
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Why Buick needs small cars? May be they better keep it full-size division leaving small upscale cars to Saturn?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Actually the new Eps 2 LaCrosse will be a mid size car with a good sized interior. Almost the soze of the old Regal/Century.

    Pontiacs largest car will just be slightly larger.

    Not sure that Buick could survive just on large cars. Not much market. They need to be a premium marque, not just a large car marque.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    Buick could use a smaller car to keep a Buick guy from looking at other brands outside GM. I think a small Buick would be good, they could get rid of the badge engineered van and SUV instead if they want to keep the models down.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Both the van and Rendy are gone soon. Buick will only have:

    LaCrosse-midsize FWD, soon to be Eps 2
    Lucerne-large FWD, perhaps a RWD 2010
    Enclave-large CUV

    And a couple Supers that I think will be at SEMA.

    Issue with Enclave is that GMC will also have a CUV in the dealership. I forsee the Enclave going away some day and hopefully replaced with an upscale 2 or 4 seater roadster($35K).
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I dont believe the Malibu is on Ep2. The first car to get this architecture will be the 9-3 or the next Opel Vectra. AWD will be offered on EP2 models. I dont think you will see and Ep2 model in the US until the Lacrosse is replaced in 2009. The Malibu will basically be the same as the Aura with a different exterior and a four cylinder base model. Do not expect a new Aura until 2010 at the earliest.

    The Altima does indeed look almost unchanged and I wouldn't be surprised if it goes unoticed by many buyers. This is the same problem Ford had (in addition to gas prices) with the 2006 Explorer. To me the Altima and Maxima are so similar that I have to wonder why anyone would pay for the Maxima. The 2007 Altima isnt a bad looking car, but it's not a new look like the Aura.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Buick should also offer big fullsize convertible (like Chrysler 300)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Yes! Unfrotunately there are no full size convertibles within the GM family and it would be awful expensive. But a Zeta convertible Buick could also spawn an Impala convertible!
  • isartamisartam Member Posts: 13
    Car reviewers seem to be pretty much in agreement about the Aura, and they drive quite a few cars.
    Consider here and here and here and here, just to name a few. Are they all on the GM payroll?

    Hmmm. Maybe Saturn has done something right.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    What they need to do, is to have the 6 speed auto available with the base 224hp engine, in order to push fuel economy to the 30mpg point.

    is was rated at 20/29 with the 224hp v6 i think.

    The only change would be the transmission change. Hey, it may even increase city mpg too. It would also give GM a boost in there ads, they can say they have even more cars that get 30mpg or better.

    It would be good news for the buyer, too. :D
  • isartamisartam Member Posts: 13
    I suspect that (a) they might be "capacity constrained"--only enough for the Aura and some other new applications with that engine (Aura is the first to use that transmission), or (b) giving the best things to people who pay the most, or (c) all of the above.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I would expect the Aura base model to get a 6 speed or and AFM engine in the future, but as of right now they just dont have the capacity. I'm sure mpg will increase by 1-2mpg with a new tranny.

    The Altima V6 as 270hp according to the review in this month's Automobile magazine. They didnt seem blown away by the car at all. They said the interior was much better, but it was best if you didnt look too closely or you might find out the quality isnt all that. The CVT didnt seem to be considered a plus or a detriment to the car at all. I will say that the car looks too much like the Maxima and I think that is a mistake. Nothing in the review suggested the Altima will leave the Aura in the dust as some have suggested.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    isit just me, or does the smaller altima have more power than the larger maxima? I guess Nissan is having a hangover from the marketshare party they had in the last few years.

    Also, why are mostpeoplethinking that Saturn is the direct challenger to Nissan? I think the Aurais more the size of the Maxima anywhay, but...

    The funny thing is, that Pontiac seems to be more in line with fighting nissan. The G6 also has the 252hp DOHC, and more closely resembles the altima in size.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Actually, the Altima is marginally larger than both the G6 and Aura in every measurable way except ('06 model) wheel base. I'll be curious where the weight of the '07 Altima will be, because the '06 model is several hundred pounds lighter than the G6 and Aura. The Maxima is marginally bigger than the Altima.

    I do like the fact you can get a manual trans. with a v6 in the Altima. As for the exterior/interior looks, thats subjective.

    I have been seeing more and more Auras on the road.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Isn't Maxima in the same spot in Nissan line-up as Avalon in Toyota's?

    Aura evidently narrower car than Altima, Fusion or Camry. I agree most people would not notice it sitting in the car. It looks like more upscale than Altima though. I would compare it to upper trims of Milan, Camry and Accord.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Avalon is larger than a Camry and more expensive.

    I do not think Maxima is that big. Also Maxima is more of a performance sedan while Avalon is more of a family sedan as I feel the Camry is also. Of course I would say the Altima is more of a performance sedan (youth oriented) than the Camry.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    i got a chance to test drive an XE yesterday. I wanted to drive the XR but the salesman couldnt get access to one. The car was very quiet and rode very well. The base 6 speaker system sounded very good as well. I am loving the new GM radio too. I was disappointed by the hard plastic on the center armrest and in the door panels. I dont even think the G6 has those materials in those locations. There were also so issues with various parts lining up as they should inside the car, although nothing drastic. I dont know if that would be enough to stop me from getting the car but I did notice those problems. I also noticed for the first time that the car doesnt have a hand operated parking brake.
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    I dont believe the Malibu is on Ep2. The first car to get this architecture will be the 9-3 or the next Opel Vectra. AWD will be offered on EP2 models. I dont think you will see and Ep2 model in the US until the Lacrosse is replaced in 2009. The Malibu will basically be the same as the Aura with a different exterior and a four cylinder base model. Do not expect a new Aura until 2010 at the earliest.

    i recently read in a car magazine that the Aura is based on the Epsilon 2 Platform and not the E1 that all other GM's are. If that is actually true, the Aura is the first GM on E2 in the US.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    No, Aura is on Eps 1.

    I think now that the Malibu is on the Epsilon 1. I think they stretched it as big as they could to get it up to Camry/Accord size.

    First Eps 2 should be around in spring '09
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    When are they going to test the Aura? This is getting ridiculous. They are posting reviews of the new Mini Cooper S and have yet to test the Aura which has been on sale for two months now. Do they think no one is intested in reading about this model?

    No Epsilon 2 cars have been sold yet. The Opel Vectra and 9-3 will get the platform first. Expect a new Aura/G6 on that platform in 2010.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    They are probably waiting for others to review it and see what they say. Trying to figure out how to make it sound bad even though it seems to be getting all positive reviews. :shades:
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    Edmund's staff love foreign cars so they probably dread having to test a Saturn. :shades:
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    excellent point, perhaps they need this much time to come up with justification for rating it as an average car. I'm sure they are going to nitpick every piece of hard plastic they can find, no matter how obscure. Edmunds is one of the best at basing a car's value on the hardness of it's plastic panels. I just get tired of them rushing to get first drives of imports that wont be out for months and then taking their sweet time on domestic products. They had a first drive of the Altima back in the springtime!
  • isartamisartam Member Posts: 13
    I'll bet that Edmunds reviews cars as soon as they are available to them, knowing how media like a scoop.
    ;)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Auras have been out a little while. Most likely they just have not gotten around to it. Of course all they have to do is ask GM and they will supply one to them for testing.
  • chrisl0chrisl0 Member Posts: 114
    Maybe they are afraid they will have to give it a good review and upset their foreign masters...
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Who owns edmunds.com? It wouldn't surprise me if Edmunds.com belongs to some French or Swiss conglomerate like most other American companies. Or may be Toyota owns it J
  • sidvsidv Member Posts: 64
    Amen. Edmunds reviewers either don't even attempt to hide their biases or are just amateur about it. Almost as bad as the clowns at Car and Driver.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    When media outlets praise foreign vehicles they're just bias clowns and when they praise the Saturn Aura they're unbias truth tellers. I got it.

    I think Edmunds is going to give the Saturn a good review. I guess they're not going to be amateurish and bias in this instance. But wait, you can throw those charges at them if they don't have the Aura near the top in the next mid-size sedan comparison test.
  • chrisl0chrisl0 Member Posts: 114
    I wouldn't be shocked, they are probably trying to protect the interest of their country and the companies of their countries. If they gave an American car good reviews it might take business from their countrymen.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    From http://www2.autologic.co.uk/corporate/history.shtml

    "Originally part of the French-based Chargeurs Industrial group, Walon UK Limited executed a successful management buyout in 1996 under the leadership of Managing Director John Merry.

    Following the acquisition of Walon Benelux, AutoLogic was created to gain commercial advantages from the creation of a single identity across national boundaries and diverse automotive service elements...In 2000 AutoLogic announced a US $ 10 million investment in Edmunds Holdings, owner of Edmunds.com the market leading information web site in North America."
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