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Honda Accord Hybrid - worth the extra $$$?
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Comments
In fact, the Accord, the Odyssey and the Ridgeline are the only Hondas that fit me comfortably. I wish the CR-V, Element and Pilot fit but my legs always end up tangling with the steering wheel.
What saves the Accord for me is the tilt and telescoping wheel.
I would think the HAH would better for long torsoed people too since it does not have the moon roof which reduces headroom.
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Make no mistake, the Hybrid Accord leaps off the line, leaving the non-hybrid in its dust. Yet fuel economy compared to the Accord V-6 is officially an impressive 31 per cent better in the city and 21 per cent better on the highway.
That's good, but not good enough to justify the price premium. The Accord Hybrid sells for $36,990, $3,390 more than a comparably equipped non-hybrid V-6 Accord EX. So even with gas averaging 84.9 cents/litre (according to M.J. Irvin & Associates) and destined to soar higher as crude oil goes past $53 (U.S.) a barrel, it could take as many as 10 years for the hybrid system to pay for itself at the pump.
At least for the average driver.
http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050317.gtwhaccord17/BNStory/Technolog- y/
That is interesting. When the salesman showed us the HAH I sat in the drivers seat and my hand laying flat on my head touched the headliner. I mentioned that the car did not have much headroom to the salesman and he nodded that it was true. I sat in another Accord EX and the same headroom. Then we went out and looked at the Odyssey EX-L and I could lay my hand sideways on my head and not touch the headliner. It was a good 5 inches more headroom. Here is what I question. Edmund's specs on the HAH & Odyssey have the Accord with 40.4 inches of headroom and the Odyssey with only 39.2 inches. Something ain't right.
Where? Other posters have noted the HAH is selling below MSRP. MSRP is $30,500 for non-nav. Why would anyone pay $6000 over MSRP?
The article was a Canadian review. The $36,990 is the Candadian MSRP
Look at the gas comsumption in L/km
Happy St. Pat,
MidCow
The car reviewers have been using this line since 2000.
troy
1) better mpg
2) slightly more power
3) higher resale at trade
4) lower emissions
5) saving money every time you fillup the tank
6) hybrid-only dashboard instruments allow you to more closely monitor your driving habits to achieve better efficiency
7) the emotional boost of knowing you are helping the environment
8) no emissions at all when stopped at a red light
negatives: (see my comments after yours in the parentheses)
1) higher MSRP (getting more car for the money, will be returned at trade time)
2) less likely to be discounted or have low APR (not in the future when they become commonplace - that's the cost of being an "early adopter" of ANY new technology - look at the prices of LCD televisions today versus 18 months ago - when you buy early, you usually get no or low discounts - this is not AT ALL solely a Hybrid car phenomenon.)
3) less choice in what's on the lot (actually, they are pretty much limited in options and colors anyway - most come loaded with only the Navigation system optional. You can always ORDER EXACTLY the config you want.)
4) Higher weight - which using the same braking system is likely to increase stopping distances (and exactly how many times in your LIFE have you had to make a full braking high speed emergency stop? I have driven more than a million miles in my life and I have not ever had to do that. Don't buy a car based on stopping distances unless you are a madman who does emergency stops on a normal basis.)
5) mechanics unfamiliarity with the hybrids (most modern cars require dealers to fix them - this is not a hybrid phenomenon.)
6) a hybrid system adds extra parts - statistically have increased the probability of components to fail. (not a problem when the car is under warranty. do what I do and buy an extended warranty and be worry free for 100K miles)
7) smaller trunk. (not an issue if you dont need the extra space, or buy a roof carrier. In the 13 or 14 cars I have owned, I made do with the space I had. Again, if you are buying a car because of trunk space, it would seem like you need a wagon.)
me: you aren't "helping" the environment in any way when you buy a vehicle and run it. There are other cars and modes of transportation which are just as clean and efficient.
And tell the environment to stop polluting the environment - that Mt. St. Helens and its relatives make a bit of air pollution, and all those lightning strikes which cause forest fires that burn millions of acres every year. You're worried about tiny little cars, and our impact on the environment, when you should be worried about the environment killing us off - Yellowstone supervolcano.
I think hybrids will sell to the mainstream buyer when you can get any premium back in gas savings in 2-3 years of usage. Right now I'd say I'd pay $1500 extra for a hybrid over a non-hybrid. And I don't want it to be on a $30K car. A 1.8S Sentra auto sells for $11K around here. Sell a hybrid Sentra for $12.5K and I'd try it. Or a hybrid Focus, or Neon.
But try to explain you want an Accord Hybrid instead of an Accord V6 and people whip out their mental spreadsheet and start tallying savings. Maybe because the cars are so similar (hybrid v non-hybrid accord).
I also think in this culture it is easier to explain spending more to one up others on luxury than compete in the arena of perceived enviro-friendliness. Whether the hybrid really is more or less enviro friendly we could debate all day.
My point is social posturing via conspicuous consumption is more readily understood than posturing via having the perceived greenest or most enviromentally friendly car. It tells you something about ourselves.
I agree that if the pay back on a hybrid is quick, you will get more takers. It is always easier to appeal to enlightened self interest rather than an appeal to advancing the common good. Just the way we are wired or socialized, I guess.
Where?
Canada
$2,000.00 a year deduction.
I have a "gas guzzler", 1999 BMW 740i that is paid for.. mostly..80% by company I used to work for. I wonder how many miles I would have to drive with my car (300HP V8) to justify the purchase of anything "new". I do want to help the environment. I think the Honda Hybrid is a great car (drove one). Auto manufacturers and research in general needs to do a much better jog re: alternative fuel sources (Hydrogen?). We have not invested wisely as a nation for gas has been relatively cheap for a long time. Now we (rightly so) are seeing emotions that spurred the emergence of the small car "fad" back when we had our last gas crisis. We need to get going and get American "know how" moving on vehicles we would "love" to drive that run on alternative fuels. My 3 cents:)
.
Not really. I and most of the people I know, don't think it's worth the +$10,000 pricetag just to have "acura" on the car. Waste of money.
troy
If I don't get an HAH I was thinking about the EX 4 cylinder since it only gets 3 mpg less than the hybrid (EPA anyway, at least its a standard to compare). Or, maybe even a 2004 EX 4 cylinder.
Any comments/suggestions?
Plus cruising on the highway you won't really get to take advantage of some of the HAH's best features, like the extra power and the auto-stop.
Weight increases by roughl7 170 lbs. Cost increase is guessed around $3 - 5K.
Question; Would you pay your friendly Honda dealer an additional $3 - 5K for having 5+ times the battery capacity put into your HAH?
.
Don't worry. With your driving style, you'll barely use the battery. It will still be like-new when the car starts falling apart at 300,000 miles. (You can then use the rechargable D cells in your radios) ;-)
As for saving dollars, if that's your goal, why don't you get a Civic HX? It costs only ~$17,000 and the manual version gets 44mpg highway.
troy
That would be more driving than I would like for sure. How comfortable is the Insight on long drives? Any of you owners. I notice there are a quite a few on the greenhybrid with over 100k miles. Also people with very long commutes.
Anyway, back to the original poster's...
QUESTION: "I drive 200 miles and want to save money."
ANSWER: You can buy a cheap Civic HX for ~$17,000 and it will give you 40+ mpg highway. That's what I would do.
troy
Insights are rare (especially manual) and you have to pay MSRP of around 21K. HCH are not much better priced. The old new 2005 Jetta Diesels can still be had at around $18K but still you are paying more than a Corolla and relability is somewhat iffy.
Again for a long-term economical reliable car a Corolla is a good bet!
crus'n in 6th Manual shift man,
MidCow
P.S.- Man troy you are amazing, I get tired just driving form Houston to Tulsa and that is only 500 miles and it takes me 8 hours. I need several stops for food, gas and bathroom breaks. 1,000 miles is some 14-16 hours of driving I am inpressed. However I did go 100 miles this past weekend on 0 gallons what great mileage you get on a bicycle:)
I had been thinking of purchasing a hybrid for about a year and 1/2. Originally, I looked into the Prius. I loved all the tech gadgets and gizmos, but my hubby wasn't thrilled on the looks and lack of power. Of course, I would be the main driver, so I just wanted something fun and economical for my 40 mile round trip commute. So I was on the waiting list for a year, and when they called me in December to let me know that my car was in, I was hesitant. Hesitant because I still hadn't sold my old car (2002 MB C320), and also because now I was interested in the newest Hybrid contendor, the Accord Hybrid. So I had to decline the car...but boy am I glad I did.
Since end of February, I had been trying to get the Accord Hybrid in Desert Mist w/Navi. That was my top choice. But for some reason, that color was extremely hard to get in So Ca. Considering the limited 4 colors, only 2 come in the tan leather/wood grain interior - the Desert Mist and the Taffeta White. I had my mind made up that I would wait for the Desert Mist, but then my car sold much quicker than I expected, and I needed a car sooner rather than later. So I decided to get the white, and I am loving it more every day. It looks very bold and elegant in the white, especially with the red taillights and tinted windows.
I've read many of the posts regarding the justification for paying $3k more than the regular EX V6. I think that it is worth it. I am not a huge environmentalist myself I must say, I really bought it for the fuel economy and the unique features. And really, I don't think I got a bad price either. The MSRP on the regular EX V6 w/Navi is $28,850. I bought mind for only about $1250 more than that. I purchased mind from the fleet dept in a So Ca dealer, and they basically gave me the car for about $700 over invoice. No other dealers were offering a discount, but some did offer a price match. I figure considering that many people are even selling the cars for a markup over MSRP, I really got a good deal. They also had a great finance rate of 2.9% which expired a couple of days after I got the car.
I love pretty much everything about the car. I've owned Hondas in the past and have no qualms about reliability. Of course, I did purchase the 7yr/100k warranty just to be on the safe side. The voice commands for the audio, navi, and climate control are great. It takes a bit of time to get the exact commands properly though, so I'll have to read up on the manual some more. The Navi even has a calender and calculator function. The XM radio is great too. You get a 3 month free trial, and most likely I will subscribe when that expires. And the cabin is REALLY roomy. I am 5'6", and my hubby is 6' and we both have plenty of room. Some negatives: No spare tire or split down of rear bench; no power seat adjustment for passenger; no auto headlamps; no sunroof; no key entry for doors except driver's; ugly plastic antenna (for XM radio?); no memory seats.
Overall, I am really happy with my purchase, and look foward to playing around with all the features.
Great informative post. Congratulations on your new car and welcome to the Edmund's Honda boards. I just recently purchased a new Honda also, but I opted for the Accord Coupe w/NAV with a 6-speed becuase I like to shift manually.
crus'n in 6th,
MidCow
=====================================================
(shrug) From 6 a.m. (wake-up) to 9 pm (bedtime)... no big deal. Sitting in a car, listening to the radio/books-on-tape, and watching the beautiful scenery go by..... It's more interesting than my current "stuck in a cubicle" job!
I used to do the 6 hour round-trip commute to New York's Suburbia. I liked the daily journey, listening to talk radio. But the one drawback was the shortened sleep time (only 8 hours) which is why I ultimately quit. I like to sleep longer.
troy
Another question, most of my drive is on the NJ turnpike. I cruise about 75-80 MPH for most of the way. Would I be running on all 6 cylinders or just 3 at that speed?
Thanks to everyone for your input.
As for 3 cylinders, let me do some math:
torque = ~200 ft-lb @ 2500 w/ 6 cylinders
torque = ~100 ft-lb @ 2500 w/ 3 cylinders (guessing)
That's not a lot, but I think you can sustain 75mph & 3 cylinders. (For comparison, my 3-cylinder insight generates 85 ft-lb at that speed.) Best way to find out.... go test-drive the hybrid (without the salesman) on the interstate and experiment with the eco mode, to see how it works.
troy
This is my first post in Edmunds, so please forgive me if this has been discussed before. We are also very interested in the Accord Hybrid. We test drove it last weekend and liked it very much.
The one thing that is of concern to us is the loss of trunk space (approx.1/3 less than the regular Accord). Would anyone be able to tell me if the smaller trunk space is a significant inconvenience? I mean, can you still fit lugage, groceries, etc. You know, the normal family chores that you use your car for? What about tires? I'm thinking change-overs: how will we get four tires in the car for winter/summer (& vice versa) tires change overs.
If anyone can give us a little insight or your views, that'll be most helpful in our decision in purchasing this car (or get a regular Accord. Although we really want to get the Hybrid after experiencing the extra torque).
Thanks in advance.
Welcome to the Forum,
I would think that 4 tires would be tough to get in the trunk of a standard Accord. I would not want to put them in the back seat on that nice leather. best bet is throw them in the back of your PU truck and take them to the tire shop... dirty tires in a nice new trunk, yuck.
Unfortunately, I don't have a PU, so that option is out for me. Guess I'll need to go back and check it out again. I was hoping someone that has the hybrid can share more information on the cargo capacity. I need to seriously consider this limitation before deciding on purchasing it since it'll be used as a family car.
Good idea, why didn't I think of that. I have had a truck for the last 30 years and never had to haul tires in a car.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=103272
Prius does something similar but not in the same way.....Honda's technology is two years newer....
That is a Marketing Blurb, not an Engineering Blurb, so they mean "Unique" in the Marketing sense. I'm sure it is uinque. It probably has a bolt hole in a different location.
"Prius does something similar but not in the same way.....Honda's technology is two years newer...."
I see nothing in what you've posted so far that supports either of those statements.
As far as I know the ONLY Electronic Scroll Compressor for Hybrid Auto A/C systems is the DENSO unit that was jointly developed with Toyota. It was developed specifically for use in hybrids, and has a couple of unique features. It integrates the Electronic Inverter Unit into the Compressor Unit (This was apparently a cooling challenge), and uses very little Coolant relative to older systems.
You can find a number of presentations floating around the web, but I'm not sure I can link to them from here. The linking rules here puzzle me.
But, they are almost all done by Ken Matsunaga (Denso) or Kiwamu Inui (Toyota) , and involve analysis of the energy savings over regular belt driven compressors. Bottom line is the Electronic Compressors are about 40% more efficient than older ones.
Honda is not nearly as rich as Toyota, and I seriously doubt they did anything like that in-house. If any other A/C company had anything comparable you can be sure they'd be presenting it and trumpeting it to high heaven, and that hasn't happened.
Denso/Toyota won an EPA Climate Protection Award for the design.
http://www.epa.gov/cppd/awards/winners_summaries4-20-04.doc
I'd love to see info on the Honda Unit, but dollars to donuts it's the Denso Unit.
It would be kind of funny if Honda was paying royalties to Toyota for the A/C.
troy
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102192
When the Accord 2.2 l diesel(hopefully with a manaul tranny) becomes available in N. America(hope it will happen soon) and price slightly more than the Accord i4, I will be among the first on the waiting list.
Insight & Civic... yes, the A/C would increase engine drag & decrease mpg.
troy