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Comments
Mini Stars at $17,000
PT now starts at $14,000
Bug starts at $17,000
TBird starts at $38,000.00, you must be kidding for a Ford??? Very limited market. For that amount of money why not buy a BMW.
The new FJ will probably start at $22,000.00 for distictive styling and bullitproof Toyota quality. My guess is that they will sell 40,000 per year, maybe more.
But $22,000.00 for a real stripper (2wd, no cruise, etc) that you won't ever be able to find at any dealership, or for a decent manual 4x4? Or will that be $25-26?
RAV4, which does less sharing with another single model mechanically, starts at $19,xxx and s better equipped in the base model, I believe. But it does have a manual at that price.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Per Edmunds:
Rav4 4x4 MSRP: $21765
Base V6 4Runner MSRP: $30,070
Splitting the difference the FJ MSRP: $25915
A possible starting point for FJ 4x4 without options. Some will think this is high.
But the main consideration will be whether discounting occurs, not what arbitrary MSRP is.
Toyota dealers are saying the FJ vehicle will sell for MSRP, and that spikes the true cost to the buyer.
It also speaks to the point that buyers once at the dealer may choose some other vehicle.
Here's a boring analysis, but it shows that discounting from MSRP, or not discounting, makes all the difference in vehicle choice and price paid.
MSRP generates approximately 10% gross profit at a vehicle in this price range, while options generate 20% gross profit. If $2,000 in options are added, the new FJ MSRP would be $27,915. The gross profit on this vehicle sold at MSRP would be $2,900.
MSRP model pricing becomes moot since Toyota is discounting the 4Runner in my market to $27,885, which is $1,000 over invoice.
The discounted 4Runner comes in at the same price as the FJ sold at MSRP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gringo1
DrFill
DrFill
The FJ Cruiser has everything I want in a 4x4 and more. I've owned a 1995.5 Tacoma (first year) a 1999 Tacoma (V6, xtra cab, TRD), 2000 4Runner (V6, SR5). I owned the 4Runner for the least amount of time. It was off-road worthy since it was a rare 5 spd w/ locking rear diff., but the 183 HP V6 was showing it's age and I did not feel like spending over 2k for a S/C.
I loved my Tacoma's, but I just don't need the 6' bed and canopy's are a pain. Also the xtra or double cabs kill their off road ability (wheelbase too long). This is really where the FJ wins, 105.9" wheelbase (177.6 overall length). The ground clearance is about the same as the Taco (9.6") which is plenty for most "normal" off roading. I took my first Taco places that I thought for sure would have been reserved for lifted trucks only, it was even more than I needed.
As for some comparing the FJ to the Nissan Xterra, give me a break! Any serious off roader knows Nissan is behind Toyota. Toyota has been making off road worthy vehicles for a long time, long before Nissan even made an attempt. I test drove a Nissan truck back in 1995 when I bought my first Taco and 5 minutes into the test drive I knew it was a POS. I know they are better now, but still not at the Toyota level. This is why Toyota 4x4's cost more, you get what you pay for and they have a higher re-sale value as well.
As for looks, that's subjective for sure. At least it's something different. Hasn't everyone noticed how many vehicles are now coming out that are re-imagined versions of much older models? They blend the old with the new. One example is the new Mustang.
I just hope I can get a color that fits my personality. That blue won't work for me. I don't like flashy colors, except on sports cars and motorcycles.
What I will be upset about will be the interior if they don't deliver as promised. Supposedly the seats will fold flat for a large sleep area. As for options, I only care about the locker and ABS, the rest I can do w/o.
Might be better to use the production vehicle and not the CONCEPT vehicle.
Ah... what would you say is the FJ Cruiser's most direct competitor in the market? What do you think it will be most often compared with and/or cross-shopped against? A Jeep Wrangler? Give me a break...
Bob
If yes, that puts Tacoma in the $25-$26k.
So, I'd be surprised if anyone finds an FJ manual at $23k to their liking, but maybe so.
I am going to wait and not pay MSRP, another six months into Fall of 2006 is worth $2,000 savings off MSRP to me, and I'll hope to pay just under $25k fully loaded before tax, delivery, etc.
Cheers,
Gringo1
MSRP Invoice
National Base Price
$22,245 $20,408
Select Options
PT Sport Package #1 w/Tow info $4,565 $3,662
OG Off-Road Package #1 w/Tow info $4,405 $3,533
PY Sport Package #1 info $3,915 $3,142
OC Off-Road Package #1 info $3,755 $3,013
SJ SR5 Package #5 info $3,675 $2,950
SN SR5 Package #2 w/Fog info $2,235 $1,788
CP Convenience Package #1 info $1,460 $1,168
VD Vehicle Stability Control with Automatic Limited Slip Differential info $950 $817
VF VSC w/DAC info $800 $688
WR Sliding Rear Window info $285 $228
I may work up some more shots with different colors, but it's time consuming. I had a list of the production colors, but I can't seem to find it.
Let's face it, most of use don't need that much in our 4x4's. The FJ is way more practical on road.
Disclaimer: These are not production colors!
This may be the first vehicle that I end up getting painted if I don't like any of the production colors!
gringo: "Yes, MSRP comes in at $22k but doesn't a person have to add one of the pkgs?"
Well you don't have to, but without a package you don't get the offroad suspension or the locking rear diff. If you want those you add about $1680 (retail) for the TRD offroad package. That would make sticker around $23,7 which is right where I was thinking.
So the FJ the way I would want it configured would come in around $24K. Wait until the end of the year, and dealers will gladly turn that $24K sticker into $21K + fees. NOW you're talking.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My Toyota Celica GT had an MSRP of $19,700.00 when I purchased it in 2000.
The replacement for the Celica the Scion TC has an MSRP of $16,400.00 loaded. The Scion offers 4 disc brakes standard with 17" alluminum wheels, a larger engine, standard panoramic roof, better stero, etc.... than the Celica.
My point is that car prices are deflating in many segments because of competition and technology which is making it cheaper to build cars.
If the dollar appreciates over the next year we could have a wonderful surprise regarding pricing.
Who would have thought that the Scion TC could have such a low price???
Consider yourself fortunate if this thing comes in below $25k with 4wd, stripped.
$23k 2WD. $25k 4WD
Take a picture of THAT!
DrFill
It will not matter much what the MSRP is because the FJ street prices will certainly be a few grand less.
My $0.02
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
What you wrote is exactly what we should expect over time. I agree.
Now if we can get the dealers to cave early off MSRP to get this thing buy-able in the $24k range incl. some options.
The 05 Tacoma took only three months for dealers to come off MSRP, but those first ones that came in were selling at MSRP plus premium.
Now same dealer is selling 05 Tacoma for $1600 over invoice, which is what, 6 to 7% instead of 10 to 12% profit.
I just started working at a Toyota dealer, I don't have pricing info. yet, but remember people this vehicle may not be out for another year (I am trying to get as much info. as possible).
For one, no one is sure about the interior. It has not been completed, this is why the close to production model has blacked out windows. The model shown at NAIAS was a concept so the interior shown was the typical 'out there' styling found in most concept vehicles.
As most of you know it will be available with the same engine as the Tacoma (4.0L V6), not sure if they will offer a 4 cyl.
I will post more info as it becomes available. I can tell you now that the FJ Cruiser is going to be a hot item. Apparently my dealership already has 30 people in line, many are salespeople! I may even have to wait a while before I get one since I just started an I am at the "bottom" of the list!!! Of course I will wait to get a great deal. Expect to pay top dollar when they first come out. You cannot compare this to the Tacoma since initial production numbers will be much lower, expect to pay sticker or more for the first year unless you really lucky!
Most of here knew that from the moment we saw it, so why is the production going to be low?
I don't even see it as a niche item, but (finally) as a replacement to the standard car.
Why drive a Camry in a city like NYC, with all the pothole craters and costly fender-benders when you can drive an FJ without any worries?
Really? That is what they said about '03 4Runners and by the end of that year they were going almost $2k below invoice. Furthermore, 4Runner is a proven winner and has a huge following. Original FJ was never sold in such huge numbers. Given FJs narrow niche of utilitarian but expensive (more than a sedan), buyers are not going to rush out in droves to buy it.
Another example: Honda Pilot was very hot for the first 6-8 months but it could be had close to invoice after that.
People: it will NOT sell for more than the street price of a 4Runner! Not after a couple of months.
http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/ke.kb.sp?kbb.WA;;WA061;&98296&&fj;autoshow/2005/pc
The end of the article includes the following statement:
Pricing: Positioned beneath the RAV4, we expect pricing to start in the high teens.
I'm not saying I believe that, but I thought I'd post it for the sake of conversation.
I believe that the FJ will start around 21k. Just my two cents, though. I mean, they're selling a Scion tC for 17 grand, so you never know....
The FJ looks "different" and will be in high demand mostly from an older buyer who wants to project a macho, active image, and who has the $$. If I were Toyota, I would have designed the FJ to be about the same size and price as a Scion xB.
Now thats crazy talk.
Old guys who want to look "macho" have DOZENS of SUV's out there to choose from.
"If I were Toyota, I would have designed the FJ to be about the same size and price as a Scion xB."
More crazy talk, the FJ is a totally different demographic.
xB = stylish small-engined urban high-roofed car
FJ = retro large-engined genuine truck with offroad capability
And all that extra engineering and hardware is bound to cost some extra dough...
(that is before we even get into the background that xB is a virtually unmodified JDM Toyota that has been around for years and years to amortize costs, while FJ is all-new)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Since the FJ will be produced in Japan we have to be concerned about the Federal Reserve continuing to debase our dollar. If the yen continues to appreciate against the dollar then the price will have to rise to maintain their profit margin.
True, but not as unique looking as the FJ.
My point was that most, not all people who have the $$$ to buy a FJ will be their 40s and 50s.
It's well known that VERY few people go offroad with their SUVs. Likewise, most customers won't use the FJ as a truck, they'll use it to go to work and grocery shopping. Toyota could have given the styling of the FJ to a small FWD SUV and priced it like the xB, IF their objective was really to get the Scion customer.
Actually, that probably would have made a pretty cool Scion model! Scion could use another car-based SUV besides xB (if that is what xB is, LOL!). I just can't see Scion getting any real trucks however. Toyota has made it pretty clear that the Toyota brand is the one for the trucks.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If people like the FJ there will be plenty of people who can afford it. I happen to think that it is a home run.
Like I already said, there are already DOZENS of SUV's out there that are good for shopping. The FJ is good for ANYTHING.
"Toyota could have given the styling of the FJ to a small FWD SUV and priced it like the xB, IF their objective was really to get the Scion customer."
lol, did you even read what I wrote? Their objective is NOT to get the Scion customer, because its a totally different demographic.
The FJ Cruiser is like nothing else, part old and part new. There is really nothing to compare it to. I would guess Toyota is being conservative with the first year and will increase production if the initial demand is high. Like I said before, dealers already have deposits and long waiting lists and it's not due out for a year!
Can you dbl-check that?
Toyota was saying California would be site of production.
Exactly. The FJ is like a combination of the new Hummer H3, which is more off-road, and the Kia Sorento, which is more pedestrian. Thats its competition.
OT: While your enthusiasm for the FJ is understandable, there is no need to call other points of view as "crazy talk" as you said earlier, or questioning whether I have even read what you seem to feel is your 100% correct authoritative post.
"Toyota Motor Co.p. hopes the new FJ Cruiser, a boxy, two-door sport utility vehicle with room for five, will attract young buyers of its hip Scion brand when they're ready to trade up."
Key words being "when they're ready to trade up". In other words, "when they are ready" to fit into the FJ demographic, because the potential Scion buyer is NOT the potential FJ customer.
"Crazy Talk" just means "uninformed opinion", for example stating that the FJ will be bought for the "macho" image it projects...
As for leaky cabs, do tell. Is it just the access cabs, or even D-cabs and regular cabs? I bet it is the access cabs only - I didn't like the rattling rear half-doors when I test drove one.
It makes sense for Toyota to build the FJ in Fremont, given that the Tacoma which shares so much with it is also built there. Wonder when the day will come when they produce 4Runners there too. It just depends on how much of the plant's production capacity GM wants to use.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I will get one if it does not have an obtrusive console.