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Comments
"Ever since they started buliding Tacos in the US they've gone to h**l."
The Tacoma has always been made in the US (NUMMI). http://www.nummi.com/timeline.html
Toyota has 12 plants in North America, 10 are in the US. All models have a percentage of parts that come from Japan.
It sucks that the new models have issues, but that's a risk when buying the first year of any vehicle. No excuse, but I am sure they will fix those issues and hopefully the 06' models will be problem free.
I've owned three Tacoma's 1995.5 (first year), 1999 (V6 xtra cab TRD), and 2000 (Prerunner) and they all performed above my expectations. I love the new Tacoma's (hope to get one soon to hold me over until the FJ comes out). My only initial complaints are the interior seems to be a bit weak and the 6 spd. tranny is a bit vague.
I sell Toyota's for a living now and I am impressed with some of the vehicles that I would never buy, but that I get to play with like the Avalon and Sienna.
"Did you all see the comment in the popular magazine that the base model will come in less than $20,000?"
Did they say with option packages? Which magazine?
legroom
hiproom
etc
Secondly, FJ is not an entirely new model, it is a revived entity and thus it will behave simiar to a new version release and not like a completely new model (such as Highlander was). Furthermore, it will have direct competition from Nissan, Honda and Jeep (let's not argue about the exact list) and that will keep the dealer greed in check within a couple months of the release. As such, it will likely see a drop to invoice pricing relatively fast in IMHO.
Let's keep in mind that a 4Runner is currently selling $1-1.5k under invoice and auto sales are only expected to slow in the near future.
it will be a hit
Sounds great (no pun intended). Not only does that free up interior room, it also allows it to remain water-resistant.
FJ gets better and better.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My point is that Toyota can do better. And we should expect them to! If we accept mediocrity that's what we will get. What are our other choices in pickups? Toyota still makes good trucks. But there was a time when NO ONE could question its reliability and ruggedness.
Until Fremont is fixed, what can we do? Many of the parts are exported from Japan, but most are outsourced to local suppliers.
I disagree, the pre-Tacoma trucks were rugged, but they had weak engines, problems with rust, etc. Toyota keeps making their trucks better, year by year and model by model. I've owned three Tacoma's (from 1995.5 to 2000) and they've served me well. The new 2005 Tacoma is even better, it has some minor issues (water leaks and glove box discoloration), but you can bet they will be addressed next year. Right now I can tell you they are selling like crazy, especially the 4x4 models.
Anyone can do better, but there is a cost. Toyota trucks give the best bang for the buck, period! Anyone who wants to upgrade can look to aftermarket manufacturers to suit their needs.
I don't want to argue with you, since I know you are a Toyota fan. You know as do I that no one makes a better truck! :-)
http://www.toyota.com/movingforward/2005/march/fj.html
Here's the best part:
"Inspired by Toyota's legendary FJ 40, the contemporary FJ features the same white roof and wrap-around windows as the classic. Narrow headlamps bracket the front grille, which announces the Toyota name. The two outside mirrors sport spotlights. The license plate holder is set off to one side on the back of the vehicle next to a spare tire on a swinging rear door with a flip-up rear window. All five tires are pumped up to a brawny 32 inches in diameter. Also contributing to the rugged styling is a triple windshield wiper system."
This truck is going to kick as*! I can't wait to get one!!!!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It should start in the lower $20k range but I would also not be surprised if the loaded version will run well into the $30k range. After all, 4Runner and HL price ranges are at least 10k from the base to the top of the line. Toyota has learned too much from the domestic manufacturers and has very different pricing strategies compared to Honda, Subaru, Nissan, etc. that typically sell only a handful of lines for each model.
V6 4Runner with Automatic: : 18 mpg / 21 mpg. Figure that FJ will be about 400-500 lbs lighter and that may give it another 1-2 mpg. However, it may not if it has bigger/wider tires and it may not be as aerodynamic as the 4Runner. On the flip side: it might get 1 mpg more in a stick shift.
The specs are 4000 lbs for FJ vs. 5600 lbs for 4Runner.
crap that I don't want
I think you are confusing the gross weight with curb weight. The true weight is the latter and 4Runner SR5 V6 4WD tops the scale at 4300 (per Edmunds). The FJ should be about 4000 + - so the difference isn't going to be that much. My take is the mileage will be about 22 hwy with manual tranny.
Curb Weight is 4300 for the V6 4Runner per Edmunds.
The article citing the approx 4000 lbs curb weight for the FJ is linked here:
http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=101856
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It is true that for a real truck, this projected fuel economy is pretty decent. If you want a small SUV and don't need to go offroad or do anything else "trucky", then RAV or Highlander would be better choices.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
BOB GRITZINGER
Published Date: 2/28/05
2007 TOYOTA FJ CRUISER
ON SALE: 2006
From the weblink reference:
BASE PRICE: $23,000 (est.)
POWERTRAIN: 4.0-liter, 245-hp, 282-lb-ft V6; rwd/4wd, five-speed automatic
CURB WEIGHT: 4000 lbs (est.)
0 TO 60 MPH: 8.0 seconds (est.)
MORE FJ CRUISER: FJ CRUISER PHOTO GALLERY | FJ CRUISER FORUM | FJ CRUISER SPECS & INFO
If the interior is as spartan as Toyota claims, there can't be a lot of weight.
Oh, wait, those 20 inch tires, silly me.
Imagine if the actual production model came with 20" rims - like the Ram or something. Not likely, thank goodness!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I (me) want something with this capability
AND I want some kind of mpg for commuting
I want my cake and I want to eat it too.
functional and spartan
You can expect the FJ to get about 20-22 mpg (hwy).
As for pricing, I am sure the fully loaded models will be coming close to 28k, similar to the Tacoma. 100% worth the price IMO, it's a Toyota afterall!
But: 2 very different cars can make sense if you have a spouse that has similar utility and desires. It is plausable to have a smaller sporty car for commuting and and SUV for family ski outings to the mountains. I have tried that: wife was orginally driving a sports car and I used the SUV during the week whereas sports car was fun on the weekends; later when our patterns changed, I got the sports car full-time and she got the SUV...
Irony: we now have 2 SUVs!
Furthermore, car prices are probably only going tread downward over the next couple of years.
The prices on the 4Runner should go down due to increased competition from other brands and cannibalization of sales. 4Runner sales have slipped over the past decade due to releases of Toyota products such as Highlander, Crewcab Taco, etc. as well as additional competion from new SUVs like Pilot, Touraeg, etc.
FYI: SUVs have had some of the highest markups in the automobile industry!
C&D just did a comparo of offroading among midsize truck-based SUVs - the new 4Runner scored fifth out of six. The only reason it didn't come dead last was because the never-very-rugged Explorer XLT edged it out.
I am looking for the FJ to put Toyota back on top of the offroad game....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think that there are now a number of decent off-road vehicles but most of them are horrid on-road or they have horrible reliability... and that is too much to sacrifice! Frankly, the 4Runner has slipped a bit by moving too much upscale and away from its original roots. I test drove it in '03 when it came out but it lost out to Pilot: no 3rd row, plastic fenders and funky (useless) option combos and price... They finally have fixed most of those and now offer a 5-speed in a V6. Still, it is very difficult to find side currtains without going all out and getting into the Limited.
My $0.02.
You're right, FJ will do better because of its geometry...
As you say, the geometry of the FJ should eliminate those problems. A stock 4x4 Tacoma is running ten inches of ground clearance even now, I think, so FJ should do the same. And with much shorter overhangs and a shorter wheelbase, I expect most of the other numbers to fall right into line.
I wanna check out this Broken Arrow!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://shows.dealerrater.com/gallery/2005-chicago-auto-lg/IMG_3203.jpg
-theory2
Unless Toyota wants your arms to fatigue from being stretched out in front of you, Toyota better make that driver relation to the steering wheel more flexible, from all degrees of the 360.
If I find the article I will post it. Still haven't read anything saying it would be optional.
I hope Toyota jumps on the bandwagon and offers XM radio on the FJ.
:shades:
I wouldn't mind it - goes well with the blue.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I found a picture in a Canadian website about Toyota corporate culture. Nevermind the story. The picture shown in the article is interesting though. It says it's the FTX hybrid pickup but sure looks a lot like the FJ cruiser. What do you think of it. I think the hard metal dash could be dangerous in a crash if you are thrown against it and it has no give at all. http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jc/tomikawa.htm
Toyota guy.
Sketchy, speculative.
Whether true or not, article states:
final assy will be Japan,
$22k to $27k,
This leads me to believe this will be the last year for the REAL one. When this thing comes out, the REAL on will disappear Fall of '06.
DrFill