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Comments
Moving to a separate topic, I have read the industry is on track to sell 14 M units this MY vs a more historic 16-17 M units !!!
My take: really it is a good time for higher mpg passenger diesels.
Just for the unaware... model year changeover. Sept was the last month of the 2008s... the 2009s are arriving now - with a $500 price increase. Why ship lots of 2008s when the 2009s will bring in more money? Little details like this make for huge profits when applied across the entire product line and the entire world.
You might want to read again the context in which this was said (after you wipe the coffee oozing from your nose) :lemon:
In the context of the (posted) article, your responses indicate a misread.
If not, they really missed the boat by NOT saying it is a model "change over period" and is to be expected. To boot they also left out the new battery will have (whatever percentage) greater capacity, etc, etc, yada, yada,. CLEARLY nothing of the sort was said.
Rising fuel prices affect almost the entire driving world.
The Prius is sold all over the developed world.
Battery production is limited.
Prius demand in relation to production is high all over the world.
The US$ is in the dumper.
The euro and yen as well as other currencies are much stronger than the US$.
Selling excess units in the US takes away potential sales from more lucrative markets with stronger currencies.
Selling prices in the EU are 20-30% higher than in the US.
The 2009s are $500 higher in price.
Ergo........there is no incentive whatsoever to 'push' 2008 sales.
Since you like to do back of the napkin calculations figure me this.
$20000 cost FOB port of export
18 mos ago the Y/$ was 120 / 1
Today it is 105 / 1
18 months ago that $20000 sale brought 2,400,000 yen
Today that $20000 sale brings 2,100,000 yen
That's 300,000 'lost' due to currency weakness.
Ergo......
That is why I got a TDI. I am shooting for a min of 500,000 miles, but it is still a babe @ 110,000 miles.
If the Prius offered full battery replacement for 600 or so, after lasting between 200,000 to 300,000 miles, that would be an attractive alternative.
LOWEST FUEL CONSUMPTION RECORD
Day Twenty
FINAL STATISTICS:
IT’S A NEW GUINNESS WORLD RECORD!!
Overall 58.82 US MPG
70.64 Imperial MPG
3.99 L/100 KM
11.04 Tanks of Shell Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel
Costing $US 653.06
Average 853 Miles per Tank (1,373 Km’s per Tank)
$US 00.069 cents per mile
9,419 Miles driven Read All About It
Getting 59 MPG is not easy for a trip like that. If it WERE, then it would have been done a long time ago.
If I had done this in a like model (gasser) Jetta, 1.8T and/or 2.0 , both would have struggled to tally 30 mpg.
I just have to believe that the latest 48 States record is capable of being taken to pieces by a number of the Euro/Japanese/Korean diesels currently in production. That's not to diminish this Jetta record but I think it should be viewed as as a great starting point, not a likely long-lasting record.
Again it gets back to what I have been saying: it is hard to do differently when there are no real (higher mpg) choices!! For example one OEM (VW) that does diesel is really not much of a choice. (no disrespect to VW intended)
On the other hand, Prius is seen as a savior of the western world (as WE know it) when it gets 45 mpg. This EVEN after they adjusted the EPA standards because the Prius owners complained about it not getting 60 city 50 mpg highway. We are either biased or math challenged.
It will be interesting and instructive to see what the year end fuel consumption winds up being, and compare it to the last 5 years! Really was it worth the so called per gal pain and "700 Billion dollar bail out" and endless T Boone Pickens commercials stating the common sense obvious, 1 M times?
It has appeared in the new Skoda Superb, (Skoda is one of the 4 VW-group makes; Audi, VW, Skoda, SEAT and Skoda predates the others as it was originally a maker of luxury cars in Czechoslovakia. Under post-WWII communism it became a real joke car maker............."what do you call a convertible Skoda ? A waste skip". Following VW's buy-out they now produce a range of cars that regularly outperform VW/Audi/SEAT in JD Power ratings etc and came 1st in the '06 Top Gear readers survey. You get the idea. The Superb is based on a lengthened Passat floorpan and is actually slightly larger, W x L, than an Audi A6 so it's no subcompact and comes with all the toys; incl a trick rear end that you can open as a trunk lid OR a full hatchback. Interior space is close to A8 standards. :shades: Google skoda uk if you want a look.
Back to the point..............The new TDi CR 170 engine gives this car an "EU Combined" economy rating of 48.7mpg, (Imperial or circa 40.7mpg US), with the 6-spd manual or 46.3mpg Imp, (38.7mpg US), with the 7-spd DSG 'box. This for a saloon car weighing 3340lbs yet still gets 0-62mph in <9.0secs. In addition the CO2 output is exactly the same as for the "old" 2.0 TDi PD 140bhp engine.
Now I think that's pretty good and it will be on my shopiing list when it's time to change the Volvo S60 D5. Hopefully this engine will cross the Atlantic for you guys and you won't just be used as a dumping ground for old-skool TDi PD's.
Of course the Superb comes with other engine options; 1.9 TDi PD 105bhp, 2.0 TDi PD 140bhp plus gassers - 1.4TSi 125bhp, 1.8TSi 160bhp and 3.6 V6 260bhp ( :confuse: ). The 170bhp diesel and 3.6 gasser can also have 4x4 transmission which is, of course, nice Mr Audi's Quattro set up. All the Skodas are cheaper than their nearest VW or Audi equivalents. Can't see Skoda's ever hitting USA but I'm sure you'd like 'em if they did.
I am asking with the (American) perspective: IF Japanese OEMS are so much more reliable : hence better than European cars, with the high cost of per mile of European car operation (AND scheduled and unscheduled maintenance) , that if they (Japanese OEMS) were appreciably better (or even marginally so) THEN there would be very high %'s and numbers defecting to the Japanese oem name plates!? Of what I read/have read, they (Japanese oems) have encountered tough sledding!? This is of course by their own admissions and industry pundits.
Here is a European take.
Europeans scramble to save failing banks
I would take it by your post that instead of superficial yearly design changes, i.e., new sheet metal EVERY year, they stay longer with what works and hopefully do incremental improvements in a model's generation.
Getting the so called "best OF" in car buying is almost like buying a computer or a sleep mattress. There are way too many "useless"choices (my .02 cent editorial). It also makes "thoughtful comparisons" almost meaningless. This of course leads to when it breaks...throw it away. :lemon:
More to the diesel point, what are the oem recommendations for oil and fuel filter changes?
On a 2003 VW Jetta TDI I am running 20-25,000 miles OCI's. and 60,000 miles fuel filter changes. I have done a TB/WP change. NON diesel related, and just recently @ 109,000 miles I had to change a thermostat and coolant sensor. Coolant is life time, so all that was done was top up what was lost in the process of repairs.
German vs Japanese ? Hard to call. Lexus, Honda, Toyota, Mazda generally top owner surveys but Skoda now fugure in top 3. German or Japanese vs French ? No contest.............don't buy French unless you live near a dealer and enjoy sitting in reception waiting for them to fix the electrics. Actual engines seem just as bullet-proof, though.
Sorry it's a bit less than clear cut. Japanese cars in general are considered excellent, Honda best of mainstream and Lexus top - if you have the money. Skoda rated best-built of VW-group but Audi is the prestige brand in the group in same way that Lexus equates to Toyota. Overall, engine problems seem to be very low level in all makes and none of the diesels is a noted troublemaker. VW TDi's rated as best but Honda CTDi's are up there with 'em.
Does that help ?
Also for me it tends to confirm the experiences I am having (on this side of the pond) with the VW TDI 1.9. I would even hazard a guess that the VW TDI 2.0 C/R common rail is a significant improvement over an already bullet proof engine. I also realize this opinion (over here) might be an extreme minority opinion. However in that sense I have been and remain in a cocoon of sorts in a perfect storm.
As a side by side comparison, I am also satified with the Honda Civic (gasser) @ like miles. There are a few nits, some major and most minor: but really they can be put in the whiners bin. I do wish however the Civic gasser was a cTDI !!!
Jetta TDI proving more popular than VW planned
Posted Oct 3rd 2008 at 5:03PM by Jeremy Korzeniewski
link title
That seems a bit low to me. Why would anyone buy the gas version if they tried the TDI. Makes no sense. The tax credit will take up the difference in cost. And the resale will be way more when they are ready to trade in. The Jetta TDI is a NO COST option.
..
... Did it ever occur to you that the Argonne National Labs has an invention that can supersede urea in a few years ?
..
... Did it ever occur to you that the manager that proposed this is a publicity hound ?
..
... Did it ever occur to you that your already overcrowded truck stops will be a huge source of pollution as your fuel lines will be overcrowded.?
..
... Did it ever occur to you that I and as many people as I can muster will refuse to buy fuel from any business that implements this foolish and short-sighted infrastructure sewer ?
..
... Did it ever occur to you that if you, Loves, TA, and Flying J, refuse to install this chemical nightmare the the gov ( Argonne's father) will have to change the regs ?
I don't know about TN. In CA trucking companies are going out of business. I don't see them buying new trucks with expensive SCR equipment. If anything it will push the trucking companies that don't go bankrupt to just rebuild the old engines. We are competing with Mexican trucks that are much older and unlikely to be upgraded. Unless this is a mandate for all trucks using the highways of the USA. I would say that could be devastating to an already shaky business.
As per usual the EPA gets on a high position and screws up the works.
I have read the information on Argonne Labs inventions to clean diesel exhaust. It is baffling to me why they do not implement the simpler solution.
Probably some Congress Person has ties to the AdBlue manufacturers.
Gary,
The "oil-burner" is referring to the diesel version. It's what they call the diesels across the pond in Europe.
FYI...
Local store pricing:
3.81 RUG
4.07 PUG
3.88 D2
Audi says "just TRY to smell our exhaust - Try It !!!
It's day 2 and we're well into the next leg--getting a rating of 29 mpg--as we wind through the hilly Maryland and Pennsylvania countryside. Traffic has been lighter, and we're employing some coasting and drafting techniques to bolster fuel economy. We've also deviated from the Audi agenda, making stops at a Starbucks for a caffeine fix and at a Civil War battlefield in rural Maryland.
So, things are going smoothly. The Q7s are well-appointed and the low-end torque has made for enjoyable driving. Check back here for more updates.
Follow the fun on the web at Audi Mileage Marathon.
A known comparison, on a 2003 VW Jetta TDI 50 mpg, vs a 2003 Jetta 2.0 RUG /1.8T PUG struggling to get 30 mpg. (40 %)
29 MPG for a vehicle that nice and that large is indeed a technical accomplishment.
Sure, a diesel Smart can get around 65 MPG, but that's the size vehicle you get for that performance.
Getting 29 MPG out of almost a full-size SUV weighing in at 5000 pounds is pretty darn good.
However we are glad you are coming around to the issue we have been saying all along:
..."Getting 29 MPG out of almost a full-size SUV weighing in at 5000 pounds is pretty darn good."...
especially since like gassers MIGHT get between 15-19 mpg.
There is really another quite unseen, hidden in plain sight issue. The current standard is 27 mpg with a defacto 22 mpg fleet wide. With the 2012 new 35 mpg standards; (keeping the same RATIOS) 29 mpg exceeds (not by much) the new (TBD) defacto ratio! It certainly EXCEEDS the current standard of 27 mpg. It goes without saying, or is very obvious; it is way better than the defacto 22 mpg.
I would have said that same statement 4 years ago.
From the size and weight. I would say a person would be lucky to get 15 MPG on the Premium gas version. If they get here before I get antsy to buy, I will give them a test drive.
The only thing I have opposed in regard to diesel is the dirty exhaust. Once that issue is resolved, then I've got nothing but admiration for clean diesel technology.
The 2003 TDI's (5-8 year time frame) were designed (as years way before then) to run on ULSD ! So your mantra has NOTbeen true for 2 years BEFORE the 4 years since you have said you have been posting!! You are the author of your OWN disarticulation.
Regardless of how "future proof" the V-Dub designers were with the 2003 TDI, it did not meet the "sniff test" for being a clean diesel vehicle. Still does not.
Let's not rehash this argument. We both know I am right.
Using what measurement? We all know that CO2 is not classified as a pollutant.
2003 Jetta TDI Air Pollution Score: ZERO
2003 Camry Air Pollution Score: THREE
(ten being highest)
There is no "history which is required to be revised."
kcram - Pickups Host
Scarcity. Supply and demand.
Dealers are adding markup above MSRP on the TDI's at the very same time they are discounting the gasoline models below MSRP.
There are major constraints on the supply of diesel engines and emissions components for the TDI. Also the engines and many of the emissions components are manufactured in Europe which creates currency issues when they are exported to North America.
Previous to the current TDI, VW was limited on the number of diesels it could sell and still meet fleet averages for emissions.
I don't know how many diesels the market can support as demand is still much higher than supply.
..
... Did it ever occur to you, to study the MTBE debacle ?
..
... Did it ever occur to you, to study the facts about tetra-ethyl lead, especially the cover-up, of of the toxicity, right from the beginning, in the nineteen twenties.
DRIVES: 2010 Mercedes-Benz S400 BlueHybrid
I have been looking for a diesel hybrid but not one for $100,000 My Gosh !!!
A claimed combined city/highway average of 30 mpg betters that of the S350 by 7 mpg, yielding a gain of 165 miles in range. Equally impressive is the CO2 rating, which, at 190 grams per kilometer, betters that of its gasoline-only sibling by 57 grams per kilometer.
RUG $3.79
PUG $4.05
D2 $3.77
Diesels..... can't get enough!!!! (MSRP and above?)
When it comes to performance diesels, Audi is king. Its R10 TDI sportscar is tearing up race tracks across the globe, while the R8 supercar will get V12 diesel power in 2010.
However, you won’t have to wait that long to get a first taste of the 6.0-litre powerplant, as it appears in the firm’s flagship Q7 SUV in January. That means the monster seven-seater not only has the biggest diesel engine available in a production car, but also the most powerful by some margin.
As well as using the R8’s motor, the Q7 benefits from technology found in the R10 Le Mans car. The performance statistics are as impressive as its heritage, too. The 6.0-litre V12 delivers 493bhp, and the torque output is an enormous 1,000Nm! These figures mean the two-and-a-half tonne SUV manages to accelerate from 0-62mph in 5.5 seconds – and it feels even faster than that!
Turn the key, and the V12 lets out a deep rumble comparable to a petrol V8. And with all 1,000Nm of torque available from as low as 1,750rpm, even the lightest prod of the accelerator results in instant thrust.
Due to the huge amount of power available, the needle of the rev counter seems to hit the limiter in no time, resulting in the need for constant gearchanges using the six-speed Tiptronic auto. The manic Q7 isn’t without its faults, though. Turning into corners with any speed betrays its weight, and grip suffers as a result.
The steering doesn’t inspire much confidence, either, as it lacks feel. The ride, however, is smooth and comfortable.
Inside, it’s hard to fault the luxurious cabin. The driving position is high, commanding and comfortable, with well placed switchgear and first-rate quality. All this luxury and performance comes at a premium, though. The V12 Q7 costs £96,295 – nearly twice the price of the V8 TDI model below it! It’ll certainly be exclusive, however, as Audi only plans to sell 40 in the UK.
Diesels - a whole ONE affordable car available !!!! Woo-Hoo !!!!